Saturday, July 30, 2011

Is Anders Behring Breivik a Christian?

Who gets to define the word "Christian"? The three main sources would be: (1) Christian scriptures, (2) the Christian community, or (3) non-Christians. If we go with (1), Breivik fails miserably. If we go with (2), Breivik will be utterly rejected. Hence, the only way Breivik could be considered a Christian is if certain non-Christians (e.g. Muslims and the media) decide to define the term "Christian" as "anyone who calls himself a Christian, regardless of whether his beliefs line up with Christianity." Is this the route we want to go?



Since our Muslim friends really, really, really want to classify Breivik as a Christian, I have to ask a few questions. (i) Do non-Muslims get to define who is and who isn't a Muslim? (ii) Since the Lesbian author Irshad Manji calls herself a Muslim, is she a Muslim? (iii) How can Muslims reject Ahmadis as Muslims, but call Breivik a Christian, when Breivik obviously strays much further from orthodoxy than Ahmadis do?

39 comments:

valentin said...

Very good video David. If only the dishonest, bias secular liberal media actually did as much research as you did regarding this issue. They are however intellectually lazy cowards.

Fisher said...

Woah, you did NOT just print out all 1500 pages of Breivik's manifesto. lol.

The guy is seriously messed up. So he believes in a "cultural Christianity" not as an end in itself, but as a means to producing a superior European culture. It says a lot about the MSM that they grasp at these kinds of straws in trying to find their mythical and elusive "Christian terrorist."

Fisher said...

By the way, if Breivik is a Christian "Fundamentalist," perhaps we ought to ask what "Fundamentals" he holds on to, because it's clear that he doesn't hold to ANY of the fundamentals of the Christian faith.

My Two Sense said...

Valentin said, “If only the dishonest, bias secular liberal media actually did as much research as you did regarding this issue. They are however intellectually lazy cowards.”

While I also thought David’s clip was very good, I take issue with your “liberal intellectually lazy coward secular media” remark. So in response to the half-a-second video clip from Stephen Colbert’s show that David used in his video, and to pose a counterpoint to your comment… I thought I would delve a little deeper into the segment in question.

Here is more detailed monolog from the episode.

Stephen: “… Here and all around the world, all our thoughts and prayers go out tonight to the people of Norway who suffered an unspeakable tragedy on Friday. The killer has been caught has confessed and no punishment is too harsh for him…”

Stephen goes on to show clips from other networks and newspaper both mainstream and otherwise…

July 22 clip from MSNBC “Norway has been grappling with terrorist plots linked to Al Quaeda…”

July 22 clip from FOX News: “Without all the facts in, the finger of suspicion would suggest this is probably Middle Eastern in its origin…”

July 22clip from FOX News: “2 Deadly attacks in Norway in what appears to be the work once again of Muslim extremists…”

Washington Post blogger Jennifer Ruben quote: “There is a specific jihadist connection here… This is a sobering reminder for those who think it’s too expensive to wage war against jihadists.”

Wall Street Journal clips:
“Al Quaeda’s Ayman al-Zawahiri has repeatedly singled out Norway”

(calls Brevek) “…an Al Quaeda copycat”


This is where Stephen goes on to say, “It turns out that the attack was carried out by Brevek, a ‘Native Norwegian Christian’…” (this is the half-a-second clip David used and OK… I am not about to argue the point that David proved him wrong by quoting directly from Brevick’s manifesto. But Stephen continues) “…with a 1500 page manifesto railing against the Muslimization of Europe. Just because the confessed murderer is a blonde blue eyed Norwegian born anti-Muslim crusader does not mean he’s not a swarthy Middle Eastern madman.”

July 22 CNN clip: woman asks: “What do you make of the fact that he looked Nordic?” man answers: “In the first few hours after any such event there’s so much misinformation that I wouldn’t want to draw any conclusions… maybe it was a good disguise. “

Stephen goes on to say, “Yes. Which is more plausible? That a non-Muslim did this? Or that Al Quaeda has developed Polyjuice potion?” He then goes on to show a clip from Harry Potter.

My Two Sense said...

I had to post this in two parts:

So the point of his segment was to poke fun and show the irony of “news” networks not wanting to draw any conclusions… but instead “reporting” speculation. The spectrum of clips and samples that he showed ranged from CNN, to MSNBC, to The Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal. I’m not sure that Fox or the Wall Street Journal fall under “bias secular liberal media” (they don’t in my book) but it was pretty obvious that none of the examples that Stephen presented “did their research”.

He then quotes Washington Post blogger Jennifer Ruben’s retraction: “Yes, the attacker’s jihadist’s links did not bear up. There are many more jihadists than blonde Norwegians out to kill Americans.”

Stephen goes on to say, “So if you’re pulling a news report completely out of your @$$, it is safer to go with Muslim. That’s not prejudiced, that’s probability.”

OK. So here is where his attempt at irony is unfortunately true and I am back to the facts presented in David’s video that… and I am paraphrasing here “you can’t point to Ted Kasinsky and Breveck and say, “See? There are Christian terrorists too!” When a.) these two examples were so clearly not Christians based on the writings in their own manifestos and b.) There have been significantly more terrorist actions in the name of Islam and if those are the best “Christian terrorist” examples that you can point to then it’s an extremely weak argument.

Admittedly shows like The Daily Show and Stephen Colbert are not “news” shows and should not be viewed as such. One of my friends made an interesting distinction. “I want comedy in my news. Not News in my comedy.” Jon Stewart has said many times that his is not a “news” show, that he is a comedian. I will say that pundits on the opposite side of the spectrum like O’Reilly and Beck have occasionally admitted that their shows aren’t news either, but “opinion” shows. But networks like Fox claim to be unbiased news networks and I think in the above example, Stephen Colbert humorously proved that sometimes they are not. So if you want to point to ‘dishonest, bias secular liberal media’ and call them ‘intellectually lazy cowards.’ Then my response would be “People in glass houses…”

simple_truth said...

I thoroughly enjoyed the video analysis. I was glued in to the very end. It made a lot of sense.

Thanks!

Now only if the major media outlets would use this as an example of how to effectively critique themselves for seemingly going out of their way to call him a Christian.

Sophie said...

LOL @ 'Christianist'! I personally like the term 'Islamist' because in nations where Muslims are the minority, it's helpful to persistently acknowledge a distinction between Tariq the violent jihadi maniac on the news, and Rashid the nice guy who works in the IT department. But 'Christianist'? That is political correctness taken too far. I'd rather hear him called a Christian (even though he isn't)than have the mass media create a new category of Christian terrorism to fit him and Tim McVeigh and abortion doctor murderers into. It's just not necessary and it sounds stupid.

CristoTeAma said...

Great video David, i traslated the quotes u used and put them in some leftist digital news here in Spain, and the ppl is kinda shocked since this profile fits more with the leftist who asks religion to stay away from any kind of politics(it seems they don't know that is impossible in a islamic country)... But it makes you wonder, what is behind of all this covering? many muslims believe we are in a world wide conspiracy by Zionist, and that they control our contries, but if it's actually so, why are they covering the muslims back and attacking christianity? are you muslims being used as handly tools for dark porposes?

minoria said...

Great video David,I twice provided links to it in jihadwatch.org,plus the same for 2 articles in Jabari's blog,which is about the persecution of Christians and once in avraidire.com(telling them to use Google Traduction).

You have done a wonderful job.

V. Anthony D'anjou said...

I get Angry when people called Anders Behring Breivik a Christian. Christianity does NOT teach violence like what Anders Behring Breivik did. Islam DOES teach Violence like what Anders Behring Breivik did.

People MUST Read and Study the Holy Bible and the Quran/Koran a.k.a. Al-Quran or at least look at videos on this website: http://www.abnsat.com/abnnew/index.php?option=com_hwdvideoshare&task=viewcategory&Itemid=70&cat_id=44 and even donate money to ABNsat.com.

Christianity IS Peace and Christians ARE Peaceful. Islam IS NOT Peaceful but of peace a.k.a. Islam acts like Islam is peaceful. Anders Behring Breivik is NOT a Christian and can anybody give me 2 verses to 5 verses in the Holy Bible's Christianity that shows what Anders Behring Breivik is Christianity?

mutteater said...

You don't need to read the whole "manifesto" to understand the killer's views. Those are all in a "q and a" section. He clearly states that he is "not very religious" and posits a pan-version of Christianity, which includes "atheists" and "nazis." He uses "crusade" imagery - including a St John of the Cross medallion, as cultural artifacts. He advocates abolishing the social sciences. Anti-jihadis make wide use of same. In fact many ARE social scientists.

The dynamics of the atrocity are more likely father-son (he clashed with his Labor Party over NATO's slaughter of Serbs) than civilizational. Sometimes I question the literacy of our pundits. You can be sure that EUros will be dealing with shariazation long before 2083.

Radical Moderate said...

This is to funny, a Muslim blogger posts a video by David Duke, in which he (Duke) states that the Oslo nut case was influenced by Zionist Jews.

The Muslim blogger comment on the video states...


"I believe racism and Christian fascists/bigots on the internet were amongst the influencing factors on the Norwegian Christian terrorist, Anders Behring Breivik."

Then when he was confronted on the fact that he was appealing to a known racist\facist\biggot to promote his agenda his responds with...

"As for the content of the video, NOBODY is denying Duke is a racist - it's stated in the post by ME, HOWEVER he makes good points in the video which pin your heroes."

So this Muslim blogger just exposes that it is he who is influenced by a racist\bigot\Nazi Facist.

Amazing what they have to do.

Amboyduke said...

David, you are fantastic...keep up the good work!

GreekAsianPanda said...

I entirely agree with you that Breivik deserves the title "cultural Christian terrorist" rather than "fundamentalist Christian terrorist." I also appreciate that you didn't demand that people leave off the "Christian" part, either. This is, overall, a pretty good video.

There are three things I disagree with you about, however.

1. Your terrorism comparisons. I don't know if you know this, but many acts of terrorism take place in Europe every year, it's just that these are "little" acts of terrorism, not on the scale of what Breivik did. Some of these are rightist. So Breivik isn't the only "Christian" rightist terrorist out there. Also, the exact nature of every single one of the 17,000 or so Islamist terrorist attacks worldwide since 9/11 are not taken into account when comparing to Christian rightist attacks. Never mind that I have no idea if the Religion of Peace website's count is correct, but I doubt all or even most of them are big massacres. (I agree that most of the "big" terrorist acts, in which many people die, are usually by Islamists in modern times, but I still think your comparison is kind of incorrect.)

2. Do you actually believe Breivik when he claims that he has seen Muslims terrorizing Oslo and that he knew girls who had been raped by Muslims? Of course he's going to give any excuse he can for hating every last one of them! Now, I'm not saying that it's impossible that he might have seen this, but I think you're being a little uncritical in taking this weirdo's word for it.

3. You draw a clear correlation between a religion's holy book and its adherents' actions. Sure, it works in your theory's favor today, with all the jihadis quoting the Quran while committing acts of terror, but I highly doubt anyone could say the same thing during, say, the Crusades. The Crusades have no connection whatsoever to Christianity's actual teachings, as you demonstrated, but they still happened (plus tons of other crap).

Yeah, otherwise, good video.
=)

Mr Sanity said...

@Sophie the main issue with the islamic community is that Rashid is highly unlikely to criticise Tariq's actions unless pressed to do so, and is even less likely to utter such criticism with any real conviction.

As quite a few muslims have stated, "there is no extreme islam, there is no moderate islam, there is just islam"

Ephram said...

Despite his awesomely idiotic views on Islam, I still think Ron Paul is a stand-up guy and the best presidential candidate on offer at the moment, especially given his economic views at a time when nothing matters more than our economy.

John 8:32 said...

David Wood- Answering Oslo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcJvS3gx8QY

Letitia (The Damsel) said...

This response is for GreekAsianPanda:

//Do you actually believe Breivik when he claims that he has seen Muslims terrorizing Oslo and that he knew girls who had been raped by Muslims? Of course he's going to give any excuse he can for hating every last one of them! Now, I'm not saying that it's impossible that he might have seen this, but I think you're being a little uncritical in taking this weirdo's word for it.//

Do you actually believe Breivik when he claims to be a Christian fighting for a Christian-only cultural identity in Norway? Of course he's going to give any excuse he can for legitimizing every one of his points! Now, I'm not saying that it's impossible that he might consider himself a Christian, but I think you're being a little uncritical in taking this weirdo's word for it.

Peter said...

GreekAsianPanda "2. Do you actually believe Breivik when he claims that he has seen Muslims terrorizing Oslo and that he knew girls who had been raped by Muslims?"

I live in Scandinavia, and I am very familiar with what is going on in both Denmark, Sweden and Norway.

I am not sure whether or not to believe ANY of Breivik's claims. He clearly has mental issues, so he might imagine or lie about anything.

However it is very likely that he has first hand experience with crime committed by muslim immigrants.
Especially rape and violence is predominant, meaning that crime statistics very clearly show that muslim immigrants account for an unproportionately large amount of these crimes.

We DON'T know whether or not the criminal immigrants are in fact "true believers" or "faithful muslims", but we know that they do identify themselves as "muslims" and come from muslim cultures.

In Denmark, where I live, immigrants from muslim countries rank high in almost all types of crime, but there are also some "new" types of crime that are done almost exclusively by immigrant offenders, such as group attack rapes and rapes of very young girls (14-15 years old). 20-30 years ago we didn't really have this type of crime in Denmark (and I think this goes for Sweden and Norway too).

I don't want to throw numbers and percentages around, because crime can be calculated in a lot of different ways. But try and google it yourself - I think that you'll be shocked to see the numbers. I know that the Danish numbers are usually weighted by income and education, so we know for a fact that the tendency has got nothing to do with poverty or lack of education: Compared to native Scandinavians, on average, the muslim immigrants are simply more criminal. The Norwegian situation is pretty much the same as the Danish, perhaps a little worse.

If you want to google the Scandinavian crime situation try and search fo Malmö. Malmö is a very typical Scandinavian city except that it has a very large population of muslim immigrants. Google "immigrant crime Malmö" or something like that and check it out for your self.

Or look in Wikipedia. This is about Sweden and not Norway, but the Scandinavian countries are very connected culturally:

"Of teenagers in 9th grade, 10% of boys and 5% of girls had been the target of muggings during the previous 2 years" (Sweden / Wikipedia)

"48% of convicted rapists in Sweden in 2009 were born abroad. Amnesty International blamed Sweden's "deeply rooted patriarchal gender norms" (however in 2006 Sweden was ranked as the number one country in gender equality)" (Sweden / Wikipedia)

So yes, it is very possible that Breivik has experienced immigrant crime. I personally know a number of people who have been mugged and one woman being raped by immigrants in Denmark. And here things are not as bad as in Oslo, I believe.

If you want to know about the situation in Oslo in particular then take a look as this video from the national Norwegian news. Here we learn that in the last 5 years, not a single violent rape in Oslo was committed by a native Scandinavian. ALL attack rapes were committed by immigrants and foreigners:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_rHFKRwv5Y

1MoreMuslim said...

Cherry picking by excellence.
I would do some cherry picking, I can demonstrate Anders Behring is indeed a Christian believer.
P.28: a course ( Da Vinci Code)designed to denigrate the Bible as cleverly crafted fiction instead of God’s truth

When a selfproclaimed Christian, writes a book in which he gives the moral justification of Violence from the Bible, then he implements his plan, killing people while praying to Yahweh. David Wood says : This is nothing about Christianity.
When a Muslim kills an American, saying that he has done that because what USA is doing in the Muslim land, David Wood says , it's all about Islam. Find the inconsistency...

When We ask, is there a connection between Jews kicking native inhabitants from their land, and the Bible telling the Jews to kick native inhabitants out? David Wood: Sheer coincidence.
Is there a connection between Christians supporting Israel unconditionally, and the Bible telling them to support Israel unconditionally? David Wood : Sheer coincidence.
Is there a connection between a muslim killiong 3000 Americans including Muslims, and the Quran? David wood : Of course, it's all about Islam.
Find the inconsistency..

Pierre_Picaud said...

David, great video!

If you have the time can I ask you a question? You cite that Breivik mentions being witness to some 50 Muslim on Norwegian crimes, some of which he himself was victim of.

Aso that he knew of Norwegian rape victims... You couldn't point to where in his odious "compendium" he mentioned these incidents, could you?

I know I'm asking to piggy back your research here, but I'd like to look into these segments myself.

With thanks and best wishes.

Aaron said...

Wasn't Breivik dressed as a policeman when he committed his murderous atrocity? If so, why not call him a policeman?

1MoreMuslim said...

Anders Behring is a Cultural Christian Secularist ( call it what you want), who wrote many pages to demonstrate the moral justification of using violence from the Bible, quoting references after references.
Anders Behring is just an honest Christian, he doesn't have a personal relation with Jesus, like all Christians who pretend to have one.

Radical Moderate said...

1Milimeter has put his milimeters worth in..

He writes...

When a selfproclaimed Christian, writes a book in which he gives the moral justification of Violence from the Bible, then he implements his plan, killing people while praying to Yahweh.

Can you demonstrate where the Oslo nut case did any of this? Can you show us where he quotes from the bible to justify his murders?
Do you have any survivors\wittness that say he was praying to YHWH or Jesus, any witnesses that he was procraiming Jesus as LORD?

valentin said...

Aaron, Good point. So let me say since He was wearing a police uniform, therefore it logically follows he "must" be a policeman. Don't forget he also played video games including call of duty modern warfare 2, which he credited as being part of his "training" Well, therefore developer Infinity Ward, and publisher Activision must be partly responsible. Okay enough sarcasm.

V. Anthony D'anjou said...

1MoreMuslim and GreekAsianPanda can both of you give me 2 verses to 5 verses in the Holy Bible's Christianity that shows that the Violence that Anders Behring Breivik did is Christianity?

I can give both of you: 1MoreMuslim and GreekAsianPanda many verses from the Quran/Koran a.k.a. Al-Quran that shows that the Violence that Muslims does is for Muslims to do for their Pagan Idol god called: Allah!

My Two Sense said...

1MoreMuslim: "Anders Behring is just an honest Christian, he doesn't have a personal relation with Jesus, like all Christians who pretend to have one."

Way to generalize. So instead of trying to "rise above" the argument(s) that "All Muslims...(fill in the blanks here)" you decide to make broad generalizations about ALL Christians.

I thought one of the major stipulations of Christianity was to have a personal relationship with Jesus. Wasn't there something about that in John 14:6...? My Bible versin's a little rusty.

Sophie said...

"48% of convicted rapists in Sweden in 2009 were born abroad. Amnesty International blamed Sweden's "deeply rooted patriarchal gender norms" (however in 2006 Sweden was ranked as the number one country in gender equality)" (Sweden / Wikipedia)"

Yes, that's precisely who Amnesty would blame, and that tendency is why I had to withdraw my support.

Pierre_Picaud said...

I suppose there's no chance of an answer to my question? I wasn't being sceptical, just genuinely curious.

a.n.s.AZ said...

I'd just like to remind each and every one of us that sin doesn't make one to stop being a Christian stealing and murder are no different in the eyes of the lord. So if Beirvick did give his life to Jesus he's still a brother, same way as the sister that had an abortion.

Peter said...

@Pierre_Picaud

Towards the end of Breiviks manifest he writes:

"The following is an overview of experiences I have had during my youth in Oslo. I‘ve "only" experienced 8 assaults, attempted robberies and multiple threats. I‘ve never actually been severely ravaged, robbed or beaten my Muslims (a broken nose is the worst thing that occurred) but I know more than 20 people who have. I know at least 2 girls that have been raped my Muslims and I am familiar with two more cases in my broader network (1 gang rape). One girl though was cut badly in the face by Muslims. As such, I guess I should feel lucky or privileged"

And then he goes on to explain in more detail what happened to him. He describes 8 incidents from his age 15 to age 21.

As a Scandinavian I think that what he describes sounds very plausible. These types of crimes are fairly common, and I know several people who have been victim of similar threats and assaults. Personally however I have only been threatened by muslim immigrants - never assaulted. But as I said, I know a number of people who have, and Breiviks' stories seeem believable.

There is a lot of violent and (in a Scandinavian context) extreme immigrant crime. Just two days ago here in Denmark two young immigrant men robbed a 90 year old lady in her home. One of them wore a white taqiyah. He held the woman and kicked her. Only local media bothered to tell the story: http://www.tv2oj.dk/artikel/76268:Aarhus--Video--Hjemmeroeveri-mod-90-aarig

Catholic Defender said...

Well said sir. This Breivik never was active in church nor read the bible nor shouted "JESUS is GREAT" before killing innocent kids?

How could he be?

ピアノフォルティ said...

If someone claims to be Christian, he/she is Christian. It is the same with any religion. It is not a club, rather a set of beliefs to which one subscribes.

To claim that Christianity is a "religion of peace" contradicts the historical record.

boffeelikescoffee said...

^The historical record you speak of is of the Crusades? Correct?
Unfortunately, you need to be a better historian and do your research. Prior to the First Crusade, there were already more than 400 years since Muslim attacks began on Europe, the stronghold of Christianity at the time. In fact they conquered a lot of Christian lands before the Christians decided enough was enough and began to systematically retake the lands that were seized by Muslims. The fact that the Moors were driven out of Spain, and the fact that Muslims were needed to be repelled from the Byzantine Empire demonstrates the extent to which the Christian had to protect their own land. If the Radical Islamist goes to your homeland and begins taking everything by force, there is a line to be drawn. Fortunately, the Crusades were more geo-political than religious, and thus the Crusader kingdoms were set up with equality of all three Abrahamic religions to co-exist in peace, just like Israel today, and unlike the Islamic states of the past, present, and unfortunately in the future to come.
Get your facts straight before you start talking down your peace-loving Christian neighbours who pray for your salvation, not your destruction. Peace.

yulduzz(: said...

I'm Muslim, and I don't care if there's a so-called "Christian terrorist" or whatever. I just wish people'd realize that these "Islamic terrorists" are not acting accordingly to Islam - yes it is a religion of peace, and clearly, exploding various people and places does not fit into the category! It's as though radicals have branched off and created a new religion altogether that just adulterates the name of Islam by misquoting or selectively quoting, and misinterpreting the texts of the Quran.
I hate terrorism and it needs to stop. But it has nothing to do with race or gender, class or religion, really. Which religion do you know that asks for violence? 38% of non-Muslim Americans says Islam. Thanks for your well-researched, rational conclusion.

As one of the points in this post is how Breivik is not really a "Christian fundamentalist" or terrorist and such, as he does not hold onto any Christian beliefs, the same would go for Islam. Or is it an exception just because it is Islam?
And doesn't nearly every religion practice tolerance?
Think carefully before judging, please. My best friend is a religious Christian, and I'm Muslim. We have no intolerance for each other.


BTW, just as a side note, the hijab (headscarf) that women wear, is for modesty - a woman's hair is considered a most beautiful part of the body, and should be for her husband to enjoy.

V. Anthony D'anjou said...

Yulduzz(: you said that you are a Muslim and I read the so called good things that you are saying about the Quran/Koran a.k.a. Al-Quran which is Islam the Muslims' so called religion. Yulduzz(: you are 100% WRONG about the Quran/Koran a.k.a. Al-Quran which is Islam the Muslims' so called religion.

In the Quran/Koran a.k.a. Al-Quran Yulduzz(: the peaceful verses are Abrogated and ONLY the Violent and Sharia Law a.k.a. Shariah Law are to be followed. I can give you many verses from the Quran/Koran a.k.a. Al-Quran that are Violent and is NOT abrogated like the peaceful verses.

Yulduzz(: you are either using Taqiyya (Lying) or you do NOT know the Quran/Kora a.k.a. Al-Quran. The ONLY way that you Yulduzz(: and ALL Muslims will go to Paradise and Heaven is by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth from the Holy Bible.

Catholic Defender said...

Wow, thanks for this video. It's worthy of posting in my blog.

I agree with you. How could he be termed a "Christian" when he doesn't belong to any "church" nor reads the Bible nor QUOTE any Bible verse before executing his victims?

Good heavens he didn't shout "Jesus is Great" or "Jesus is Lord" or "Glory to God" before doing such heinous crimes...

God bless you and may you be our courage when everyone of our political leaders are hiding in cowardice, may your tribe increase.

Allison Karalus said...

Murders never enter the kingdom of heaven-the Bible says that.

Vincent O. Moh said...

In general, white supremacists in Europe tend to be secular, but White supremacists in the USA tend to be religious.

In some US prisons Odinism is practiced by White supremacists. Outside of prisons Odinism is non existent.