Tuesday, June 28, 2011

Why Did Jesus Say, "The Father Is Greater Than I"?

18 comments:

mkvine said...

Sam Shamoun is so good at explaning Christologial issues. This is a common objection raised by Muslims, but Sam's response is excellent.

Hakim said...

God Bless you Sam...Great interpretation

Dk said...

Allahu Akbar.

Jesus never said that. The Gospel of John was never written by Jesus but several anonymous authors.

Oh wait...maybe I'm a Muslim hypocrite and believe Jesus did say 'God is greater than I' that???

How can I live with the inconsistancy?

I *can* have my cake and eat it.

Lindert said...

Dk said
"The Gospel of John was never written by Jesus but several anonymous authors."

No, the gospel of John was not written by Jesus, because Jesus never wrote any gospel. That's just another misunderstanding that the author of the Quran had.

And the Gospel of John is not anonymous. It is specifically ascribed to "the disciple whom Jesus loved":

John 21:20, 24:
the disciple whom Jesus loved, which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, "Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?" (...) This is the disciple which testifies of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true

Notice that John was a disciple of Jesus (that is equivalent to a companion) and not just any disciple, but one of Jesus' twelve apostles, that He chose personally, who were with Him at the last supper. This disciple was also an eyewitness to the crucifixion and Jesus even spoke to him from the cross (see John 19:26-27).

Tychicus said...

DK>"Jesus never said that"
How do you know? Where you there?

No one said that Jesus wrote the Gospel of John. John was there along with his disciples (who where there when these events happened) wrote the gospel by the power and leading of the Holy Spirit. (Godbreathed)

This is attested to in the Gospel of John as well as in the apostolic fathers. IOW, those who were witnesses of these events attested to the accuracy of the Gospel as written.

And we have manuscripts of this gospel from the 1st Century. Rylands P52 dated about 90-95 AD. (Aland & Aland _Text of the NT_)

BTW, Muhammad didn't "write" any of the quran!

Tychicus

donna60 said...

That was excellent!

minoria said...

I explained that passage plus "the Son does not know the day or the hour" passage with the Carmen Christi creed here:

http://www.avraidire.com/2011/02/jesus-sest-limite-volontiers-et-cela-explique-deux-passages-etonnants-des-evangiles/

PLUS

I explained the John passages "My Father and your Father,my God and your God" and "The Father,the only true God" here:

http://www.avraidire.com/2011/05/la-trinite-expliquee-par-la-mathematiquela-chimiepar-jesus-dans-une-vision-et-par-le-triangle/

YOU CAN TRANSLATE

From French by COPYING and PASTING using GOOGLE TRANSLATE

http://translate.google.com/

BOOTA SINGH said...

Great Job,Sam,God Bless,Amen.

CL Edwards said...

Question to our Muslim brothers in humanity: Muslims say God can have mercy on whomever He wills and circumvent His own attribute of Justice because He is Most Merciful, yet they claim He is to Majestic to ever incarnate as a Man, the idea of God being in Man, eating, sleeping, and having bodily functions violates His majesty. So why can He set aside His Justice arbitrary, but not His majesty? Are not all His attributes equally perfect?

simple_truth said...

Sam, your explanation makes a lot of sense, given the surrounding context.

Great job!!

Thank you, Sam, for your diligence and persistence in trying to bring accurate understandings of both the Bible and the Qu'ran.

Tychicus said...

Sam,
This was very well done. As a student of Greek, I agree that the comparative MEIZWN can be of different degrees and MUST be determined by the context.

What is telling here is as follows:
1. Jesus is comparing himself to the Father. This would be blaspheme if he was not God the Son. (see all the places where the Jews point this out: John 5).
2. Jesus calls God "His Father". How is Jesus the Son of God? He is the only begotten John 1:14 (not like us or like angels, Adam, or prophets). He has life in him the same as the Father. John 5:26.
3. He knows the Father even as the Father knows Him. Matthew 11:25 Again, impossible for a creature, but possible for God the Son. (Hebrews 1:8)

Again, the whole context of "greater" is governed by calling God as Father.

Godspeed

Tychicus said...

Sam,
It is interesting that most of the "criticisms" are only PART of a verse and taken OUT OF CONTEXT.

This is the type of behavior of most heresies. I Cor 11:19

Godspeed

Sam said...

Tychicus, you misunderstood DK. He is a friend of mine who neither Christian nor Muslim, and yet he does a great job of refuting Muslim polemics. In this case, he was mockingly playing the role of a Muslim, giving us an indication of how they would respond in order to show just how irrational and inconsistent they truly are.

Tychicus said...

Sam,
Ok, there seemed to be some sarcasm in DK's post. But it was hard to tell.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Godspeed

Gottschalk said...

Sam Shamoun is a greater scholar than me, wich means that since he is Human, i'm not human.
And my mother is greater than i'll ever be, so i'm not as human as her.

Royal Son said...

I'm glad you included the point about the Father at the end there Sam, because it seems that almost every verse that Muslims use to try to deny the Deity of Christ, show that God is His Father. Interestingly, the Qur'an qualifies sonship as a mark of Deity in Surah 43:81. I find it particularly funny when they say that Jesus prayed like a Muslim, pointing to His falling on His face in Gethsemane, when the very prayer He prayed totally violates Islamic dogma. Do Muslims pray 5 times a day "Father if it is possible let this cup pass from me, yet not as I will, but your will be done" ?

Oh wait, that part must have been corrupted, I forgot.

Tychicus said...

Sam,
One thing that occurred to me about John 14:28.

Let's grant for a moment the false representation of the person of Jesus (not God the Son) to these people.

They say, Jesus said the Father was greater than I. Thus, Jesus declared he was not equal with the Father.

Now, the interesting thing is, will these groups then admit that Jesus was comparing himself to the Father? Knowing that the Father is God Almighty, and knowing that he, Jesus, is a creature, how can this be done (comparing) without blaspheme charged against Jesus?

Will they then admit that Jesus blasphemed?

They claim this comparison must be absolute (being compared with being), but then they will not accuse Jesus of blaspheme against God.

They leave all the arguing to us in defending the Divinity of Christ.

Let's turn the tables and ask for more explanation from them concerning their point. Recognizing that they cannot have it both ways. Either Jesus can be compared to God or he cannot.

Godspeed

PKYM said...

Bless you brother. Just one thing I'd like to add about Allah/slaves relationship and Father/sons. Jesus says "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed." John 8:35-37

The Father desires for us to be sons and not slaves. This is made possible by and through Jesus...
"for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith." Gal 3:5

What an awesome God. I call Him Father, He calls me son. Amazing.