Thursday, November 25, 2010

Barack Obama's Muslim Grandmother Praying That He Converts to Islam

RIYADH — US President Barack Obama's Kenyan grandmother says she prayed during a hajj pilgrimage to Mecca for the American leader to convert to Islam, a newspaper revealed on Thursday.

"I prayed for my grandson Barack to convert to Islam," said Sarah Omar, 88, in an interview with Al-Watan Saudi daily held in Jeddah after she had performed hajj.

The paper said that Omar was in Saudi Arabia on pilgrimage along with her son, Obama's uncle Saeed Hussein Obama, and four of her grandchildren.

Omar told the newspaper that she could only discuss hajj matters and would not comment on Obama's politics.

The family appeared to have been hosted by the Saudi government for hajj. Saeed thanked King Abdullah for his "kind hospitality," the paper said.

US opinion polls in August revealed that roughly one in five Americans believe that Obama is a Muslim, a claim categorically denied by the White House which has maintained that he is a "committed Christian." (Source)

33 comments:

Sophie said...

So Obama is not in fact a Muslim, then.

GreekAsianPanda said...

What's wrong with praying for a person's salvation?

Yusuf Alamo said...

In The Name of Allaah,
The Most Graious,
The Most Merciful.

Peace be upon you.

@Sophie:

In your last post you commented:
"So Obama is not in fact a Muslim, then."

Nope. He isn't.

Salaam.

Yusuf Alamo said...

In The Name of Allaah,
The Most Gracious,
The Most Merciful.

Peace be unto you.

@GreekAsianPanda:

I wouldn't be surprised if he used to be a Muslim when he was younger.

May Allaah guide us. Ameen.

Grammy Blick said...

And we shall continue to pray for her, and her family's, salvation.

Odo said...

Yusuf Alamo said:

I wouldn't be surprised if he used to be a Muslim when he was younger.

Yes he was a Muslim while living in Hawaii and Indonesia. Numerous news sources (AP, Chicago Trib) confirmed he was enrolled in at least two schools as a Muslim student. There are also reports of him attending a madrassa and pictures of him donning Muslim garb.

donna60 said...

Odo,
all kinds of our presidents have done all kinds of goofy religious things that none of us approve of. President Bush worshipped at a Shinto shrine when he was the Prez.

And as far as President Obama's youth. I don't believe children should be called anything until they are old enough to decide for themselves what they want to be.

It comes to my mind, that President Obama was an atheist or agnostic or something like that until he joined the United Church of Christ in Chicago--which apparently, he didn't attend very faithfully. But that is besides the point.

My parents religion taught that the definition of a Christian, was a person had
1.) reached the age of accountability, and then
2.) to have sinned, in order to even need forgiveness of sins, and, therefore,
3.) needed to obey the gospel.

Until then, I was largely an areligious person, who went to church with my parents, only as a mildly interested observer. I'm sure my parents hoped I was learning the bible in all the Sunday and Wednesday night bible classes they dragged me to, and I am sure I picked up some of it.

Based on your criteria, I was...what?
--I would say that at that same age, so were you and so was Pres. Obama.

helen said...

with the way he defends it and doesn't comment on certain issues, i wouldn't be surprised if he was.

"islam is a great religion" etc etc etc.

he certainly has sympathy when it comes to islam.

Lindert said...

@Yusuf Alamo

I wouldn't be surprised if he used to be a Muslim when he was younger.

But doesn't that mean that Barack Obama should be killed according to Muhammad?

I've never seen a hadith that says to pray for apostates, but only to kill them.

Rafik Responde ao Isla said...

No wonder Obama cant say that Islam is an EVIL religion. His whole Kenyan family would plot against him.

Sad to say and amazed to recognize, that GRAMMA OBAMA is a better Muslim than he is a Christian. At least she is very vocal on her believes, while OBAMA hides himself in his presidency.

I wish he would be vocal on why and what he believes. At least his Gramma is. He should learn that lesson.

I am sure he is not a Muslim, he is too smart for that. But what can we expect from Politicians? They play the game of life with different rules. Pilate knew what was right and wrong, but preferred to please the people.

goethechosemercy said...

Quote:
Sad to say and amazed to recognize, that GRAMMA OBAMA is a better Muslim than he is a Christian.
end quote.

I believe that Mr. Obama is under the severely mistaken impression that he can be both Muslim and Christian at the same time. Many multiculturalists hold similar beliefs.
In the case of Islam and Christianity, though, nothing could be further from the truth.

helen said...

hey david,

this doesn't have anything to do with islam but maybe you can put up the source on obama getting elbowed in the face while playing basketball and having to get stitches just for fun.

just a thought. and thank you for your work again. your awesomeeee!

CosmicBoy said...

@ donna60,

Odo,
all kinds of our presidents have done all kinds of goofy religious things that none of us approve of. President Bush worshipped at a Shinto shrine when he was the Prez.

>> Are you sure? This is the problem with Islam, they will never believe that somebody left Islam, either they left because of woman, money or sex or fame, no way left because of Christian truth.

So you see, you created an assumpsion that Obama was not really a moslem who convert to Christian. Typical moslem character.

protein sheikh said...

Being on the other side of the pond, I find it laughable that some Americans view Obama as a Muslim. Ok we are more secular here and I view Obama as a secularist. His comments against Christianity are no worse that what Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins have said.
Nevertheless he is trying his best to reach out to the majority Muslim countries and I have yet to see what difference that has made as yet. To me, nothing!
Moreover if the Muslims do not accept he is one of them then I don't see how anyone even can label him as one.
I prefer to stick to the facts instead of speculation.
The Muslim leaders see Obama as an American President, representing American interest, not as one of the Ummah.

donna60 said...

I think I am both a Democrat and a Republican at the same time. Sometimes I think I am a Socialist and a Nihilist at the same time. But I don't see any way at all to be a Muslim and a Christian at the same time.

Odo said...

Hello donna66,

President Bush worshipped at a Shinto shrine when he was the Prez.

That is goofy I did not know.

I don't believe children should be called anything until they are old enough to decide for themselves what they want to be.

Children should not be called anything until they are old enough, I agree, and since Obama is not a child anymore we can safely say (with no repercussion on the child) he was a Muslim when young.

But what in the world do you mean by "decide for themselves what they want to be"? Did you decide you want to worship God? - 'here I am God, I have finally decided to want you, It was my decision to believe in you' - i dont buy that, and I encourage you to watch this video.

I believe Barney got it wrong when he said, "be anything you want to be", and I believe the army got it right when they said, "be all that you can be".

Obama’s environment was Islamic, his family was Muslim, all the morals, principles, and ethics he learned were Islamic. You grew up with Christian parents who focused your attention on the Gospel. Christian morals, ethics, principles were passed down to you.

Now when talking about faith it is a different matter with Christianity compared to other religions, for I believe faith is a gift from God that can only be received in Jesus which you do not get with any other religion that merely "teaches" faith or morality, that is worldly faith in man. Ultimately all of our morality comes from God.

I would also like to point out that most of the secular moral relativists walking around today believe their morals, ethics, and principles are completely independent from Christianity and they do not need God for moral objectivity, whilst their whole worldview hiinges on fundamental biblical principals such as the golden rule.

Odo said...

Hello again donna60,

My parents religion taught that the definition of a Christian, was a person had
1.) reached the age of accountability, and then
2.) to have sinned, in order to even need forgiveness of sins, and, therefore,
3.) needed to obey the gospel.


This statement, like the one above, is puzzling to me. My parents taught me nothing of the sort, and I wish they had. Your childhood sounds amazing and Gospel oriented. But I dont understand what you mean by "reached the age of accountability" - I believe we are accountable to our parents and they are accountable for us until we are old enough. I believe we are accountable before God the second we are born and after we grow up we are ultimately only accountable to God.

You say after we reach this accountability that: "AND THEN TO HAVE SINNED, IN ORDER TO EVEN NEED forgiveness" - Maybe i am misunderstanding what you mean but I believe we are conceived in sin and we need the cleansing blood of our Lord Jesus when we are born into Adam. It is our nature to sin and we need forgiveness right away, there is no "then to have" or "even need".

And finally my definition of a Christian regardless of their age is anyone who has been convicted by the Holy Spirit to repent of their sins, proclaim Jesus as Lord crucified, and to preach the good news to all people. I also wholeheartedly believe once a Christian always a Christian, or more particularly, anyone who is a real Christian has always been a Christian.

And at least to me, we cannot speak about Christian faith and Islamic 'faith' as interchangable examples, there is no comparison. They are completely different types of faith, one God given the other not.

Odo said...

Hello donna60 once again, and this is the last time I promise.

Until then, I was largely an areligious person, who went to church with my parents, only as a mildly interested observer. I'm sure my parents hoped I was learning the bible in all the Sunday and Wednesday night bible classes they dragged me to, and I am sure I picked up some of it.

And praise God for all those sundayschool classes, I cannot think of anything better for a child. You might have thought you were a areligious person, but please do notice that your parents grafted certain things into your malleable young mind - strong Christian morals, principles, ethics, and definitely some Fear of the Lord, which in turn they received from their (Christian?) parents and the Gospel (ie. God).

Whether you believe it or not you were being conditioned with Christian morality and whether your parents hoped or not doesnt matter because you were indeed learning the Gospel even if you didnt know it at the time.

The only reason there is any semblance of order, justice, and morality in this world, is because of God and the Bible. If you had been raised Christian, even if you "decided" to became, say, atheist, all of the morals and ethics and principals you know and hold are nonetheless Christian based. And I would say you were brought up as a Christian.

So based on your criteria, I would say with all due respect, you were definitely a Christian. Just as Obama, who was raised in an Islamic environment, who went to a madrassa for years, who was brought up by Muslim parents, and whose impressionable young mind was filled with morality (is that what we call it?) from the Quran, was a Muslim when young.

That is not to say that Obama hasnt been filled with the Holy Spirit and his new God given morality hasnt frozen, turned away, from his older Quranically learned morality – which I dont think ever happened. I just want to reiterate again that far beyond anything else we receive all our morality from God and the Gospel, as we do the gift of faith.

And of course I am no authority on the Bible or Christianity, just a learning Christian stating his views on faith. I also hope I did not insult you in any way. Please excuse me for going so off topic and correct me if I have spoken erroneously concerning our Lord.

Here is something else:

Nothing happens by chance or outside the sphere of Gods providence. As God is the First Cause of all events, they happen immutably and infallibly according to His foreknowledge and decree, to which they stand related. Yet by His providence, God so controls them, that second causes, operating either as fixed laws, or freely, or in dependence upon other causes, play their part in bringing them about.

Amen.

Those are my views and that is what I believe. I dont believe anyone can "want to" and it just is. But maybe i just misunderstood you. Peace.

Odo said...

And my view about Obamas faith is that Obamas god is Obama.

Like this guy said:Mr. Obama is under the severely mistaken impression that he can be both Muslim and Christian at the same time.

Yes I agree! Mr. Obama thinks he can just go around picking and choosing whatever he likes while incorporating the good parts into his worldview, just like any other good secular multiculturalist does. It is inconsistent and it cannot possibly work.

donna60 said...

Cosmicboy,

I just don't see how he could ever be. His mother never became Muslim. His grandparents weren't Muslim. He rarely saw his father, and according to his autobiography, his father was an atheist, anyway.

He had a step-father who was Muslim, and he said that he had deep respect for his step-father--who his mother eventually divorced, didn't she?

In any case, he didn't even see his step-father that much because he spent his teen years in Honolulu.

I wasn't that interested in religion at all as a kid. (Aren't I awful!) I got interested in God, only after my mother died. I just can't see Barach Obama, the kid, making some deep abiding decision to become a Muslim.

Honolulu wouldn't have supported it. They throw luaus at the drop of a dime. My brother was stationed over there, and even the church he attended, which is a supposedly conservative church, had a luau on their front yard, Sunday mornings. My brother couldn't believe it! He couldn't wait to get home to the bible-belt.

Hawaiians are pig-eating people! I just don't see our president being the type of kid who would forego a roast pig for his spiritual faith, and maybe I am being judgemental. If I am, I apologize.

I happen to agree with Protein Sheikh, that President Obama is simply more secular than spiritually minded. I think a great many of our presidents were more secular than their constituents, as well.

sepuloh_satu said...

I think what Granma Obama does is something what anyone who really believes in something will do.

So, why don't the Christians who really loves the religion do like wise, that is pray that President Obama becomes a good Christian as what you all envisaged?

That would be a better time spent rather than speculating on speculations.

donna60 said...

Sepula, Yep! You are right.

donna60 said...

Odo,
I think your parents might have been Calvinists. I'm just speculating, based on some of your statements.

That age of accountability is a hot topic sometimes, around the dinner table amongst the brethren. The bible doesn't give an age, it so happens.

But in my opinion, the age of accountability is twenty years old. That was the age that Hebrews included people in the census (1 Chronicles 23:24, Numbers 1:18) began contributing (Exodus 30:14) joined in war (Numbers 1:3) and most importantly, when God decreed that all of Israel would die in the wilderness because they listened to the 10 spies and were too afraid to enter the promised land --it was everyone over the age of twenty who would die. (Numbers 12:20)

I know that David, in his remorse over his sin with Bathsheba said that surely he was concieved in sin, but I believe it is an example of hyperbole. It surely isn't demonstrated anywhere else in scripture.

The reason that God spared Ninevah, in the book of Jonah was because of the little ones, who didn't know their right hand from their left (Jonah 4:11)

In the much used Messianic verse in Isaiah, when it talks about the virgin giving birth, the passage says "By the time this child is old enough to choose what is right and wrong, he will be eating yogurt and honey. (Is 7:13-15)But newborns, consume only milk.

More importantly, Ecclesiastes 7:29says that God has made man upright, but they chose many devises.

So I just don't see any scriptural support for stating that babies are accountable for anything--much less something that Adam did.

It seems that we agree that a Christian must repent of their sins. So we must agree that before becoming a Christian, we had to have done something that needed to be repented of, even if we don't agree as to the age that we did that something and are accountable for it.

I don't see how a baby can be accountable to God.--or even a two year old, or an eight year old. They just don't know enough. They don't even know enough to know where or how to begin looking for God, and knowing how to learn how to please Him.

We can lie to children about Santa, and the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy all in one day, and they believe it just because they believe us; and we told them so. I just don't think they have the cognitive skills to discern scripture.

We probably would have all kinds of disagreement as to how we "obey the gospel."

We agree with each other about Islam and Christianity. They are two utterly antithetical faith systems.

goethechosemercy said...

Quote:
So, why don't the Christians who really loves the religion do like wise, that is pray that President Obama becomes a good Christian as what you all envisaged?
end quote.

Good question.
My prayers are for the state of Mr. Obama's religious and cultural knowledge more than anything else.
He fancies that he can be
1. an anticolonial African
2. a representative of Western interests
3. an advocate for America in the Islamic world
4. a maintainer of America's toadying elite
He has decided he despises everything English, and Winston Churchill for sure, without understanding that Churchill did not lie when he wrote his histories of Sudan and the Hindu Kush.
He has decided that Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness was a racist document about Africans instead of an historical document and analysis of the European experience of Africa-- a corrupt one not because of any African depravity, but because of European greed and ambition leading to European depravity even within the borders of Europe itself.
His ideological influences are badly knotted up, as are his religious influences. And I can't trust someone who has made so little sense of his life and thought.

Odo said...

donna60,

No my parents are atheist and agnostic to this day. And I did write you two longer messages but they did not go through, I even provided a thorough overview of my criteria.

Now im not sure what we are talking about. I am talking about original sin, and I think you are talking about personal sin?

Because like you, I agree that little kids (before reason of right and wrong) are not held accountable for their personal sin until they are old enough to know the difference between selfless and selflessness.

BUT original sin, I think we are all guilty of that from the beginning, and i think we are all held accountable for what Adam did simply because of our sin nature, we live with the consequences of his action. If we didint, then babies would be born perfect, siinless, and would live forever in the Garden of Eden with everyone else. So we are born with inclination to sin, and we answer for what Adam did by way of our sinful nature. Even babies.

So I just don't see any scriptural support for stating that babies are accountable for anything--much less something that Adam did.

But you do hold to the doctrine of original sin, right?

Romans 3:9-23 10 as it is written, "There is none righteous, not even one; 11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one." 13"Their throat is an open grave, With their tongues they keep deceiving," "The poison of asps is under their lips"; 14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness"; 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood, 16 Destruction and misery are in their paths, 17 And the path of peace have they not known." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." 19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 5:12 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned

Before the flood:
Genesis 6:5 5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

After the flood:
Genesis 8:21 21 And the LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done. (my emph.)

If you tell your son not to eat cookies from the cookie jar and he does it, you as the parent have every right to punish him and you would be JUST in doing so. Correct?

Odo said...

enough to know the difference between selfless and selflessness.

I meant to write selfness.

Jabari said...

Donna60:
I don't see how a baby can be accountable to God.--or even a two year old, or an eight year old. They just don't know enough. They don't even know enough to know where or how to begin looking for God, and knowing how to learn how to please Him.

I beg to differ Donna. I know some people who came to Christ as early as the age of 7.

donna60 said...

Odo, Your parents were agnostic?
What were your grandparents?

The idea of original sin is the first part of TULIP "Total Depravity." outlined by John Calvin

John Calvin got that straight from Augustine, and Augustine got that straight from the gnostics. Not that that proves that it is wrong in itself. It's just that the Calvinist doctorine or "original sin" or "inherited sin," or "Adamaic sin" or by any other name simply is not found in scripture.

Children are born sinless. They committed no sin in the womb, and God did not smear any sin of Adam on their perfect, upright souls. Adam was accountable for his sins, and I am accountable for mine, and ulimately our mutual Lord and Savior was stricken for the sins of both of us.

The reason we die because of Adam is because Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden, where the tree of life was. In addition, several times in the bible, God shortened man's life.

Children, who are sinless die on this earth the same way we do. Their bodies are born with genetic disases, they are overcome with environmental hardships,(famines, wars, climate disasters) they are murdered, abused, or overwhelmed with disease.

When God said that He would shorten the life of man, He did it.

It appears that we agree that children aren't accountable for personal sin. The fact is children are too impulsive, cognitively unable to think through consequences of their actions, and they have immature analytical skills.

Let me ask you this. When Jesus was twelve years old, and He stayed behind in the temple and His parents lost Him, and His mother reprimanded Him, was He sinning?

What would you do if your son pulled that same punch?

When my sons were young, I lived a half hour away from the congregation we were attending. I lived in Mid-America, we drove in a Ford, and traveled over paved, asphalt roads, and if we would have had to drive back to get my oldest son, I would have deafened my family, screeching at him.

I think that it significant that this story ends with the statement that Jesus continued growing in wisdom and stature, favor with God and man.(luke 2:41-52)

I wonder what age God considers "youth" in the scripture you gave in Genesis 8. I believe it is before 20. The bible called Isaac a lad when Abraham was told to sacrifice him. He was certainly old enough to carry enough wood to provide the fire. Josephus wrote that he was about 25 years old.

The difference between children and me is that children don't sin, and when they die, they are going to heaven. I have sinned, and so I need a Redeemer to mediate between myself and God, in regards to what I owe for sin.

Could you please try to repost what you had written earlier? I hate that when it happens, but I really am curious to read your additional points.

donna60 said...

Jabari,

I bet you do know some seven year olds that "came to Christ", bless your heart!

So do I.

It's been this recurring, frequently heated, arguement within the Lord's body, about when a child needs to "obey the gospel" as we say.

Do you remember the developmental stages of cognitive thinking we all learned in high-school? Ages 2-7 was the stage when things "just were" for children. They use no logic whatsoever.

I used to try Piaget experiments on my own sons, and the children of my friends. (Children make the most excellent lab rats!)

It was a hoot. which has more water? The short, fat glass or the tall, skinny glass?

Well the tall skinny glass, of course!

So I would measure the water in both glasses and prove to them it was the exact same amount. Then I would pour the water back into the original glasses and ask them again.

"Well, the long skinny glass,...duh!..."

All children love the stories of Jesus. Jesus was magical, good, brave, smart, a protector of children and women, and a defender against demons!-- all of the things that God programed into the human mind and heart to love.

And I understand that children can feel guilty for hitting their brother, and worry about some horrifying consequence for that, depending on whatever God, or consequence their parents teach them about.

But what I have not seen in children that young is the ability to personally be able to qualify Jesus as that Redeemer, and disqualify all other usupers. They believe in Jesus because their parents told them to. Muslim children believe in Allah and fasting during Ramadan for the same reason.

When they reach the teen years, they might form totally different opinions, and when they become adults they might have deeper convictions, still.

And a major reason it is really problematic in my faith, is because we practice "disfellowship"
Which is biblical, but some families have had to deal with a teen-ager that is done with religion, and hates church, or gets in trouble, and faces "disfellowship" action based on a decision he or she made at age 10--way to young to consider the cost of Christ in the first place.

donna60 said...

Goethechosemercy,

I don't know very much about Churchill, because I have always been very Midwest American in my interests. I haven't studied anything about the Sudan, and I don't know anything at all about the Hindu Kush, but now I am going to look them up in Wikipedia, because you have gotten me interested.

I do know about what the English did to the Irish on Bloody Sunday 1972 though, because that was in my lifetime, and when it was on the news, my mother fell down on her bed, weeping.

--well, I guess there were a lot of things happening in those days that made women cry.

Why did you chose "Goethe chose mercy" for your name? Just curious. I thought Goethe was an athiest.

Jabari said...

@ donna60
you said...
Jabari,
I bet you do know some seven year olds that "came to Christ", bless your heart!

I say:

I made Christ my Lord and Savior when I was 10 years old. The same age Anjem Choudary converted a little boy to Islam.

Jabari said...

@donna60......
Can you tell me how you came to Christ and what age you were???????

donna60 said...

Jabari, Okay, fine I will tell you. But I know that you will tell me the same thing that my brother does when we argue about the age of accountabilty--that if I really believe it is age 20, I should get rebaptized.

I was fifteen.