Thursday, May 6, 2010

Quran 5:32, Nazam, and Neglecting Context

Nazam is a regular on our blog and an active proponent for Islam in the UK. I met Nazam this past summer in London; he's very congenial and I really like the guy.

All affability aside, he has struck a nerve that I simply cannot ignore. In the comment thread of a recent post, he refers to the would-be Times Square bomber and the man who initially pointed out the danger to the police. Nazam said this:
Just a little quote from the Quran, the holy book of the Muslims.

“…if any one killed a person, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind; and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole of mankind…” - The Holy Quran (Chapter Five, Verse 32).

Just think who gets the reward, Fahad, the allege bomber or Aliou Niasse? =)
What bothers me is Nazam has ripped 5:32 out of context, and being a Muslim apologist, he probably knows it full well. In fact, 5:32 is the most ripped-out-of-context verse of the Qur'an in the West. Muslims (and even news organizations) often refer to this verse in order to show that Islam teaches murder is wrong and saving lives is the prescribed action for all people.

But this is absolutely not what this verse says. In fact, it says almost the exact opposite: that Muslims can kill those who are their enemies! The only way you can conclude as Nazam has concluded is to ignore the verses that immediately follow 5:32, as well as to ignore parts of the verse itself.

Here is 5:32 in its context, with all words included (emphasis mine):
On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
Salient points:

1 - It explicitly states that this was a commandment to the Children of Israel, i.e. the Jews! This is not a commandment to all people, and it certainly should not be misused as if this is Allah's command to Muhammad's people.

2 - Even if this were a command to the Muslims, there's still an escape clause: "unless it be for murder or spreading mischief in the land." If someone is "spreading mischief", he can still be killed. Now let's think for a moment. The would-be Times Square bomber considers Americans to be spreading mischief in Palestine and around the world (practically all Muslims I know think this, even the ones who are American citizens). Accordingly, even if this verse were to apply to someone like Faisal Shahzad, he would still be justified in his slaughter.

As if this weren't obvious enough from the verse itself, the Qur'an further expounds this point in the very next verse. 5:33 says
The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.
This verse is referring to the Muslims, not the Jews anymore, as we can tell in the shift from past tense to present tense. And here, the punishment for mischief is clearly prescribed: execution, crucifixion, mutilation, or at the least, exile. This is the command given to the Muslims. Quite clearly, it does not teach what the Muslims proclaim it teaches; in fact, it teaches almost the exact opposite.

It is undeniably clear that, in order to make Islam seem peaceful, Nazam and many other Muslims rip this verse out of its context, take words out of the very verse itself, changing the entire message for something else. I wonder if they know they are guilty of Surah 5:13. In any case, we should not let ourselves (or anyone who might be interested) be deceived by the popular Muslim interpretation of these verses.


Odo said...

Hello Nazam, you said,

“We were all American. That was the point!”

No my brother that is not the point. The point is that anyone in the world would go alert the authorities if they saw a burning car in the middle of a populated city. I don't care if they are cannibals, anyone and everyone not only should, but it would be their duty to do so simply out of the fact that there is a burning car in the middle of a populated city!

I cannot believe a connection was made here, and it's even stranger to me that Surah 5:32 popped up.

For this reason was man created alone, to teach thee that whosever destroys a single soul of Israel [of Israel is absent in some texts], scripture imputes (guilt) to him as though he had Destroyed a Complete World; and whosever preserves a single soul of Israel, scripture ascribes (merit) to him as though he had Preserved a Complete World [since all mankind originated from one man]. – Babylonian Talmud, Mishnah Sanhedrin 37a

Check out the above verse which originated over 300 years prior to Islam in a man-made book, don't you find it a little strange that Muhammad is pulling stuff from manmade material?

Nazam, rethink fulfillment of the Law.

GreekAsianPanda said...

Again? A Muslim is quoting 5:32 again??? I really have to wonder how they get away with doing that so often.

And thanks for pointing out that passage from the Babylonian Talmud, Odo. I had been looking for that quote but couldn't find it.

Ilena said...

again muslims with their double standards.

Nazam said...

Thanks Nabeel, I honestly like you as well and only have good memories of our time together. It was cool to traveling back home on London transport.

I'll try to give my response later as it's quite overwhelming when you have serveral people all at once wanting to respond to you, that plus I have a life outside of the internet to live.

Sepher Shalom said...

For me, the really enlightening thing is not that this verse was taken out of context (I expect that by now), it is that it seems to be the only thing in the Quran Muslims can come up with as a response when terrorists kill.

Tafsir Al-Jalalayn: (5:32) Because of that, which Cain did, We decreed for the Children of Israel that whoever slays a soul for other than a soul, slain, or for, other than, corruption, committed, in the land, in the way of unbelief, fornication or waylaying and the like, it shall be as if he had slain mankind altogether; and whoever saves the life of one, by refraining from slaying, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind — Ibn ‘Abbās said [that the above is meant] in the sense of violating and protecting its [a soul’s] sanctity [respectively]. Our messengers have already come to them, that is, to the Children of Israel, with clear proofs, miracles, but after that many of them still commit excesses in the land, overstepping the bounds through disbelief, killing and the like.

Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs: (5:32) (For that) because Cain wrongfully killed Abel (cause We decreed for the Children of Israel) in the Torah (that whosoever killeth a human being for other than man slaughter) i.e. premeditatedly (or corruption in the earth) or because of idolatry, (it shall be as if be had killed all mankind) Hell will be decreed for him for premeditatedly and wrongfully killing a human being, as though he killed all mankind, (and whoso saveth the life of one) whoever abstains from killing a person, (it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind) Paradise will be decreed for him for sparing one soul, as though he spared the lives of all mankind. (Our messengers came unto them) i.e. the Children of Israel (of old with clear proofs) with commands, prohibitions and signs, (but afterwards lo! many of them) the Children of Israel (became) after the messengers (prodigals in the earth) ascribing partners to Allah.

Tafsir Maududi: (5:32) [32] That was why We prescribed this for the children of Israel:53 "He who killed any person, unless it be a person guilty of manslaughter, or of spreading chaos in the land, should be looked upon as though he had slain all mankind, and he who saved one life should be regarded as though he had saved the lives of all mankind."54 But the majority of them went on committing excesses in the land even after Our Messengers came to them one after the other with clear directions.

David Wood said...

Hi Nazam,

Since Nabeel and I like you, we'll post your response as a blog post if you want.

minoria said...

The whole theme is 5:32-34:(by ARBERRY,a non-Muslim):

"Therefore We prescribed for the Children of Israel that whoso slays a soul not to retaliate for a soul slain, nor for corruption done in the land, shall be as if he had slain mankind altogether; and whoso gives life to a soul, shall be as if he has given life to mankind altogether. Our Messengers have already come to them with the clear signs; then many of them thereafter commit excesses in the earth.

This is the recompense of those who fight against God and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement,
except for such as repent, before you have power over them. So know you that God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate."

What is "to fight against Allah and his prophet"?
A LITERAL fight?Or is what WE are doing,criticism of the Koran and Mohammed,also part of the fight against Islam?
If so then "to repent" means we have to give up our FREEDOM of SPEECH?I find the idea contra-natura.

Odo said...

Hello Greek Asian Panda,

You are most welcome, and in case you do not know, there is a little search widget on this site. If you type in 'Talmud' or anything else you want a quick reference to from the Answering Muslims team, it will bring up all of the blog posts relating to your inquiry.

Also, if the Talmudic sources used by Muhammad are of a special interest to you, there is a great book called Judaism in Islam: Biblical and Talmudic Backgrounds of the Koran and its Commentaries by Abraham I Katsh, which was actually recommended to me by a blogger from this site.

Ok, bye for now.

Joel Madden said...

It's such a pity that one person misinterpretes the verse taken from Quran and everyone else blindly accepts it. In verse 5:32 it is reffered to Muslims where it says (children of Israel) because at that time Muslims used to live in the land of Israel and the Jew religion did not even exist at that time. the verse followed by that 5:33 the ones who wage war against God and his apostles simply mean declaring war against the Muslims and therefore allowing Muslims to defend themselves and execute, crucify, cut the hands, exile and so on.

Julie K said...

Islam's Prophet Muhammad wasn't even born until the 7th Century or thereabouts.

Judaism, Christianity, then Islam in that order.FACT: The Bible was written 500 years before the Quaran.

Islam attempts to make itself look older in order to deny the Jews of their rightful land. They do this by prohibiting meaningful achaelogical digs in and around the Temple Mount. Islam cannot afford to have Israel's previous role on the Mount known for fear that public opinion would turn against them and they lose control of it.

bogere robert said...

How can you post deliberate untruths here....knowing that anyone with a simple and basic understanding of islam can debunk these lies?

For the record...Islam considers Adam to be the first muslim....not mohammed....Abel...Abraham...Jesus...Jacob and his children.. David...Moses...Noah....Solomon....John the Baptist...were all muslims...99.9% of the prophets of Islam are propbably jews....thats why only a stupid muslim can say he hates jews...when he.MUST believe in and love those (jewish) prophets....


If indeed muslims were commanded to kill jews or other "non-muslims" do you explain the fact that jews have existed side by side with muslims throughout Arabia or even in Iran....juxtaposed against the persecution of jews in Europe? In are not allowed even to sharpen a knife when the animal you are going to slaughter is watching.....such is the regard for life!!! How then can you say we are allowed to disregard "non muslim" life.....

Jhughes said...

About Quran:32,Jesus in us saves us. A person cannot save a person. Had that be possible a Savor would have never been needed making God out to be a blubbering idiot for sending Jesus who was himself with blood in him. The Quran is inspired by a really sneaky fellow. Allah is Satan. Satan is a bright colorful angel being exstremly evil. He should not be trusted. This is God's law. Romans 13:10 - Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
KJV Cambridge edition bible.
Romans 13:10.

Adam said...

For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth. (32)

This is what it says in the verse the real interpretation you deliberately changed the sentencing of the Aya the verse :-)
Sourat Al maeeda (5) verse 32

Qasim Rabbani said...

If people are not going to believe its because Allah has not guided them. So they will by their nature hate the truths of why we are here.

Adam said...

Salam all
I have one thing to say about this:

The Muslims as you're already know, do believe in a Prophet son of Mary and his name is Issa (Peace be upon him) for us Muslims Jesus is a Character who was invented.

If you go to the Christians in the middle east you will find the name of ALLAH in their Bibles and was used as it was used way before Islam hence the name of the father of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him )

Abū al-Qāsim Muḥammad ibn ʿAbd "Allāh" ibn ʿAbd al-Muṭṭalib ibn Hāshim.

Why ? Because the name of Allah existed and brought by the previous prophets i.e Ibrahim, Moses, Issa and of course Mohammed
Even pagans knew that Allah was his name.

2) Jesus Christ by some people they are initials of Julius Caesar (not a confirmed allegation)

3) Christ is Cristos in Greek which means "wipe" messih or Messiah why is he called Cristos ?

Because it was a Jewish cultural thing when their priests anoint a King they put some olive oil on his forehead and then he wipes it, that is also has been proven to be true.

Are you going to say the Jews anointed him ? No Because the Jews wanted NO prophet and they quickly recognized that Issa Ibnu Mariam was a prophet.

Would the almighty God come down to earth and let himself be crucified by his miserable creatures, or send his "son" to be tortured and so on...
Does that make any sense to you?
It doesn't to me sorry with all due respect.

And finally you say GOD what is God?
It is a title not a name Allah is his name just like your name is John, Paul or David.
What is the name of God in Christianity ?
English language did not exist 2 thousands years ago so when they talked about Allah they must have used his name don't you think?

I don't mean a Jewish as in the ones who believe in the Torah oh no, I mean the Jews who never believed in God to this day.

So I don't want any confusion about who the Jews are.

One last point:
You say that because Issa (Peace be upon him) was born without a father that means his father had to be Allah or God right ?

Okay then, so on one hand you are limiting the supreme power of almighty Allah, and secondly how come he created Adam without a father or a mother and he created Eve without a Mother doesn't that strike you as being great?
So we should all call Adam God then, no?
I leave you with this
Peace everybody

Adam said...

I don't think you are as impartial and unbiased as you claim to be.

1) When a verse that you recognise has as a very positive tone to it, you quickly try to show that its interpretation has a hidden agenda or a very negative meaning.

when another verse is taken completely out of context and appears to be a verse of hatred or discrimination or whatever it maybe, then you don't assume it is a misinterpretation, beside I am not even sure you won't censor these comments.

NIko said...

Adam, you have a completely misguided view on Christian beliefs and in future do not attack my beliefs ignorantly because our concept of God can not be matched by any other religion for God so loved the world that he gave his son up for us. I will be presumptuous and say the reason you know so little of Christian theology is because probably most of what you know about Christianity you have learnt from your Quran; and oh how much the Quran has to say about the people whom WORSHIP Jesus Christ.

Firstly, we do not say "...because Issa (Peace be upon him) was born without a father that means his father had to be Allah- you said that.
I mean the Quran does ask the rhetorical question how could Allah have a son when he has no wife in Surah 6:101 so I understand how easy you could be misinformed when Allah of the Quran the All - knower couldn't even understand our Theology.

The Father/Son analogy is used to show a relationship between God and Jesus but please do not think it is the same type of relationship that you as a son have to your Father - because it is not.

John Chapter 1 verse 1 says
In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was god...

Do you understand the above?
Please re-read it as many times as you need.
A little further down to verse 14 and you have
"and the WORD was made FLESH and dwelt among US"

Let me reiterate.

Is God/Allah eternal? existing outside of time from always til forever?

Yes he his. Both the Quran and the Bible confirm that.

Is God/Allah ever without his word?

No Allah's word exists with him always.
Therefore his word is also eternal.

Do we have two eternals here? 2 gods? There is only one God the TRUE GOD

Now you know how Christians believe Jesus to be God.

It is because we believe that Jesus is the literal word of God made flesh, according to our THEOLOGY

Now if Allah had said clearly - Jesus is not my word come to the earth from heaven from eternity and made flesh to dwell among you different story instead he says - Jesus is only a word from Allah!

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Here we have God the Father stating he will send his word out into the world and it will not return to him empty handed.

and its just one of hundreds of prophecies - the prophet Isaiah says that the virgin will conceive and give birth and he shall be called GOD WITH US.

Prophet Mo was a sinner as mentioned in the Quran.. Jesus IS SINLESS

It will be Jesus that returns at the end of days according to both the Bible and the Quran, ask yourself WHY?

The Quran says he is the only person born that Satan could not touch, the bible shows us that JESUS has complete power over Satan/Iblis...

You say Christians are limiting God's power - you're the one saying that God can't take on human flesh.

When this is his promise to us, he promised our Salvation in Exodus the first book of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures that because Satan entered the world through Eve he to would enter the world through the seed of woman as our Saviour. Our god truly loves us.

And what is this crap that Jesus Christ is JC and that stands for Julius Caesar,

I speak a Slavic Tongue
Isus Hristos -Jesus Christ
Julij Tsesar-Julius Caesar - don't make any sense at all in my tongue...pathetic!!!!

The question you need to ask yourself is not if we should call Adam god but why after God declared a decree with all men and woman of Adam being born of both mother and father had Jesus come to us through a Virgin.. your Quran gives no explanation except miracle, though it was a miracle CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY gives you an explanation!
We do not worship a God that did not send his word to us. Jesus means GOD IS MY SALVATION.

Read a bible first, find out what Christians really think,

Glory be to the Father through his Word Jesus Christ, May the Holy Spirit of God Guide you to the Truth.

Abbass Hamzah said...

there is a reason the verse in question is revealed to the muslims. if we freeze the time it was revealed, we can conclude that the children of israel were cautioned in their time by the very verse and same was passed on to serve the same value to caution and or prevent muslims from being excessive as the children of israel were and or just being told outright to realize the value of each soul or all of the above. whatever the case may be, if Talmud is not a revelation from God, but Taurat was, the fact that this verse is missing from Taurah shows the corruption as Quran has stated about previous revelations and Quran by this verse shows signs of it being a muahimin [the criterion over the previous revelations].

the reality of the verse is that it serves a purpose, the very purpose it served the children of Israel when they were the muslims of their time, while the tyrannical Pharaoh, Philistine's Goliat, etc were the pagans [idolaters/disbelievers]. what is good is always in spite of the time. then God revealed in the Quran as He did in Psalm that the 'righetous servants shall inherit the earth', is there a dispute about it? why is the non muslim group not realizing that 'believers' are cautioned so that they are the first to obey and others may follow them in observing what is good? it happens that God cautioned against killing of innocent soul in Surah Furqan, too. God encouraged in another verse to not even seek revenge, even to receive blood money. but seek reward from Allah.

Grasshopper said...

Odo, hey, and how are you doing ? hope you doing great :) .i just wanted to reply to what you wrote and the verse you added (Babylonian Talmud, Mishnah Sanhedrin 37a), i just wanted to add something, something that most of the people tend to forget about, and that is the prophet Muhammad was illiterate. the second note i wanna add is, the way guran was written (grammatically), a professor in Arabic language will agree that guran is written in a way that illiterate person nor a human mind can do. and all the prophet's followers most of them were probably more educated than the prophet Muhammad. so why would they follow a guy that dont know how to write his own name, nor know how to read, you think people will follow an illiterate guy just because maybe he was a good looking guy ? i don't know maybe thousands of them followed him because of his looks who knows , but we all know that Arab scientist and a lot of the inventions were made by arab, and those arabs were Muslims, people that know how to use their minds, how an illiterate poor person like the prophet lead all those people if he was actually stealing from others? scientist were following the prophet as well. i would really like to encourage people to read the guran in arabic because words have only one meaning not like other translations.

Adam said...

Hi brother, I just wanted to correct one thing, and that is probably why some people keep away from Islam.

Islam came down in Arabic true, but not all inventions were made by "Arabs" no way, they were made by "Muslims" so please be very careful not to mix the two, Islam was not destined to Arabs it was sent to mankind all mankind.

It is not exclusively for the Arabs, so we need to be extremely careful not to hold Islam as an "Arab's religion"

As a matter of a fact most of the scientists and scholars were not Arabs at all.
From Persia to north Africa, to China to south Asia, to India and parts of Europe so Islam is not a religion for the Arabs so please try and use the correct terminology when speaking about Islam and the Quran.

However I agree with most of what you said :-)
Peace bro.