Wednesday, April 14, 2010

Another Yemeni Child-Bride Hospitalized with Sex-Related Injuries

Apparently, the Muslims in Yemen trust the Qur'an and Hadith more than they trust Yahya Snow and other Westernized reinterpreters of Islam. (Note that, according to religious authorities in Yemen, people like Yahya are apostates.)

An 11-year-old Yemeni girl who was was married to a man in country's Hajja province was hospitalized today with genital injuries, said a human rights group in Sanaa.

It was the second incident involving a child bride in the last week. A 13-year-old girl died after being sexually assaulted by her adult husband. Both girls were married in the country's rural Hajja province.

The 11-year-old girl was married last year only under the condition that the adult husband would wait until she reached puberty to consummate the marriage. He did not wait, nor do many of the men who marry young brides, says Amal Basha, director of the Arabic Sisters Forum.

An estimated 50 percent of women in Yemen are married before age 18, some as young as 8. Less than a week ago the Sana'a-based human rights group reported the death of a 13-year-old bride in the same rural area. The Associated Press reported the girl was allegedly raped, and that her 23-year-old husband is now in police custody.

"She looked like she was butchered," said the girl's mother, Nijma Ahmed. The AP also cited police a report saying the husband forced himself on his young bride, feeling under pressure to prove his manhood.

An average of eight women die each day in Yemen due to child marriage, many of them in childbirth, according to the Arabic Sisters Forum. The group runs a hotline for victims of domestic violence and has been lobbying in support of a minimum marriage age now under consideration by the Yemeni parliament.

Pushing against the proposed law is the strong hand of Islamic conservatives in Yemen. Clerics have declared women like Amal Basha apostates from Islam for opposing child marriage, which they see as divinely ordained. The government, she says, is intimidated by the religious and tribal customs.

"They say this is Islamic…and they declared jihad against... the UN treaty on women's rights," she said.

"They say my campaign is a Western agenda, that it will lead to sex out of wedlock and prostitution," Basha said.


International groups like UNICEF and Oxfam have also lobbied for the rights of child brides, but tread carefully around what has become a explosive political issue.

"It's a deeply embedded social habit," said Naseem Rehman, a UNICEF spokesman told ABC News last year from in Sana'a. "For every one child marriage we can stop there are five more." Source.

There's no way around it. We're doing another show on child-brides this weekend. (The sad part is that Muslims like Yahya will be more upset with us doing a show on child-brides than they are when little girls are hospitalized or killed.)

37 comments:

Odo said...

Hmmm...so reading from Yahya's blog, boyfriends (guessing girlfriends also) are 'un-islamic'

Well here is an 'Islamic' solution! Get little children (8, 11, 13 yr olds), who cannot stand up for themselves, and marry them off! This way there is no need for boyfriends or girlfriends! The CHILDREN are FORCED - to quote from the article, "This is Islamic"

Now why in the world do Christian conservatives differ so much from Muslim conservatives?

Yahya Snow said...

If the show was done in good faith and did not have a hidden agenda appended to it I would support it. I await the uploading the show.

If you read "Reliance of the Traveller" (Islamic Law manual, shafi fiqh) youwould realise that the female must be ableto endure sex in order for it to be snactioned by Islam.

So, please bring this point up on the show so ppl can distinguish between Islam and the practice of some Muslims in Yemen.

I repeat...Islam only allows sex if it has no knock on health implications...ie sex must not harm!

As simple as that.

Peace

minoria said...

The whole Arabian peninsula is as surreal as can be.Yemen with this,then the UAE where 80% is made up of foreigners.Those foreigners are treated like slaves,overworked and underpaid.There is medieval Iran and Sudan,Afghanistan with its government fighting for its life against the rag-tag Talibans.
Iraq with more than 600 suicide bombers(10% of them women) and they are considered heroes.

Malaysia where it's illegal to leave Islam or go to jail.The same in Algeria.Hamas and Hizbullah have the people's blessing and rule because of VOX POPULI(voice of the people).In Egypt you need the president's permission to paint a church,if you don't it will be closed down.It's as crazy as Cambodia under Communist POL POT,only that while one rule was under an ATHEIST ideology here it is religion that has a role.It is getting more like the Nazi era each year.

Royal Son said...

And how are you going to find that out Yahya Snow ?

Simon said...

yahya


u sound confused and lost. cmon man just hear urself out. y r u standing up for something that is totally wrong and sick?
let me ask u this. WOULD U MARRY A 10 YEAR OLD AT UR AGE?

Nakdimon said...

Yahya Snow wrote: If you read "Reliance of the Traveller" (Islamic Law manual, shafi fiqh) youwould realise that the female must be ableto endure sex in order for it to be snactioned by Islam.


First: Where does Reliance of the Traveler say this?

Second: How would you be able to know if a young girl is able to endure sex?

Third: So the norm of sexual activity for girls has switched from "puberty" to "she must be able to endure sex"?

Fourth: Since the norm has switched, are you now admitting that sex with prepubescent girls is lawful as long as she is "able to endure sex"?

Nakdimon

aussie christian said...

What yahya has illuded to without realising it, is islam allows peadophilia as long as the perpitrator does not get caught. yahya you disgust me.

you full know that islam allows children to be sanctionaly raped by muslim men so long as they dont get caught. so this claptrap of as long as it does no harm is total crap rubbish and undefendable.

allowing a child to be sexualy abused is wrong, there is no defending such an action and if islam had ANY morals about it, it would ban child brides, forced conversion and death to apostates. but it doesnt and therefore is null and void as a so called religeon, it is a devil worshiping cult of dangerous proportions.

leave it and come unto Christ!!!

Lupus el Lobo said...

What criteria do you use when distinguishing right from wrong?

Is it the Bible and/or is it contemporary values?

If it is the Bible show me the passage in the Bible that sets a minimum age for marriage?

I want you to show me a passage that explicitly states the minimum age for marriage.
Christians have up to modern times married of their girls at ages that to a modern westerner would be regarded as repulsive. Don't tell me that these christians weren't real christians. They followed what they thought was according to biblical customs. Unless your bible clearly sets a minimum age for marriage then your indignation should be directed at your own bible which does not unequivocally prohibit such practices.

If you follow the laws of the society you happen to live in then your morality is not absolute.

David Wood said...

Lupus,

Christians don't share the Islamic view of morality (i.e. "If Allah doesn't give me a clear command saying that something is wrong, I can't know it's wrong"). God has written His law on our hearts.

But if you'd like some biblical reasoning, no problem. "Do to others what you would have them do to you" (Matthew 7:12). If I were a prepubescent girl, I wouldn't want a grown man having sex with me and sending me to the hospital. So it would be wrong for me to have sex with a prepubescent girl, according to the Bible. Too bad your religion doesn't command you to do likewise. There would be a lot less suffering in the world.

Yahya Snow said...

@Nkdimon

Islamic Law stipulates that both parties in a union must have reached puberty as well as MENTAL maturation for it to be a valid union.

Furthermore, if the lady (who has met the two prerequisties above)is not physically able to endure intercourse then intercourse does not take place


Nakdimon...don't attribute words to me which I have not spouted...please.

Let me correct you...NO prepubescentgirl can endure sexual intercourse!

I will produce an article on this sometime soon...God willing.
However, other English speaking Muslims have clarified the Islamic position on this many times for English speaking audiences


Peace

VJ said...

QURAN THE CRITICAL EDITION HAS KICKED OFF...

http://jeffreyblack.co.uk/2010/03/13/german-researchers-preparing-quran-the-critical-edition/

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Is Yahya saying that Aisha at the age of nine was ready mentally and physically to engage in sex with a man in his 50s?

Yahya, living in Britian I would be careful about indicating any moral correctness of such practice, you might be targeted out for sympathy toward pedofilia.

To Lupos, there is actually a passage of guidance in the last chapter of Song of Songs, in which a girl is not given into marriage since physically she is not prepared, particularly since her breasts are not grown. This renders the Old Testament more moral than Islam. Keep in mind also that the Talmud despises a man who marries his young daughter to an old man.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

I have just been told that Yahya Snow possibly is Ayaz, a Muslim I debated publically two years ago.

Can you confirm this Yahya?

minoria said...

PART 1:

Hello Yahya:
I have no problem with saying ok,according to Islamic law you can't marry/sleep with a prepubescent girl.In the Spanish forum I participate a serious counter-argument is that 65:4 has the Arabic word NISA,which means WOMAN,so "the waiting time is 3 months,for those who have NOT menstruated."

SO?

Since WOMAN(adult) is used then "those not menstruated" would be STERILE WOMEN,never pre-teenagers.
Technically speaking true but WHY did brilliant scholars for 1.400 understand it as pre-teen?

ENGLISH
If the Koran were originally in English "those WOMEN you divorce....wait 3 months,and for those who have NOT menstruated" NOBODY would make the mistake of saying"it means LITTLE GIRL!"

minoria said...

Part 2:
If the BIBLE were originally in English,not Hebrew and it had "for the WOMEN you divorce...wait 3 months,and for those who have not menstruated." would the William Craig,David Wood,Mary Jo Sharp,Michael Licona of the 4th,7th,12th,15th centuries have said "it means a LITTLE GIRL?"

No,they would have said "English is our native tongue,WOMAN means ADULT FEMALE,by LOGIC,"those who have NOT menstruated" must refer to STERILE women.

SO?
NISA or woman in the Koran must have had 2 meanings then(maybe not today)but then it did:it meant ADULT FEMALE and WIFE in general(which included little girls).

SHAFSHA:

Since you know Arabic can you please tell me if NISA (woman) in ARABIC of TODAY is also used as the equivalent of ZAWAJA(wife)?Or is NISA ONLY used (in today's Arabic) as meaning ADULT FEMALE?It's very important.

Paul Guralivu said...

To aussie christian,

Brother,
"allowing a child to be sexualy abused is wrong, there is no defending such an action and if islam had ANY morals about it, it would ban child brides, forced conversion and death to apostates. but it doesnt and therefore is null and void as a so called religeon, it is a devil worshiping cult of dangerous proportions."

Islam doesn't ban this because the prophet Muhammad DID THIS. What the prophet did must be from God.
This makes the prophet Muhammad null as well. :)

Paul.

Nakdimon said...

Yahya Snow: Islamic Law stipulates that both parties in a union must have reached puberty as well as MENTAL maturation for it to be a valid union.

If I recall correctly, you claimed that “If you read "Reliance of the Traveller" (Islamic Law manual, shafi fiqh) youwould realise that the female must be ableto endure sex in order for it to be snactioned by Islam.” You haven’t answered my question though Yahya. Where does the Reliance of the Traveler say this?

Furthermore, if the lady (who has met the two prerequisties above)is not physically able to endure intercourse then intercourse does not take place

Ok, please show me the ruling in the Quran or in the Hadith. Anything other than that is a contradiction of the two. If you want to topple Quran and Hadith with modern westernized interpretations then by all means.


Nakdimon...don't attribute words to me which I have not spouted...please.

Let me correct you...NO prepubescentgirl can endure sexual intercourse!


Yahya, I have never done this. I simply asked you a question. I didn’t attribute any statements to you. And I agree, no prepubescent girl can endure sexual intercourse. Then let me ask you some more questions:

One: Why doesn’t Allah care about this and sanctions sex with prepubescent girls, as per Quran 65:4?

Two: Why didn’t Muhammad care about this and had sex with Aisha at 9? If you are going to claim that Aisha already reached puberty, then please demonstrate it.

Three: Do you find sex with prepubescent girls appalling? If yes, then why don’t you condemn this practice of Islam, since you are so eager to condemn Muslims today, that marry little girls.?

Four: Are you saying that as soon as a girl reaches puberty, she is fit for sexual intercourse?

Five: HOW would you know if the girl is mentally ready to have sexual intercourse, since the Sunnah clearly says that if a woman refuses her husband to have sex, she will be cursed by angels?

Six: And if your answer to question number five is that you can know by asking, considering that she will use that excuse to no end because she really is not ready to have sex yet, is the husband obliged to honor her decision and will angels respect her decision before they curse her?


I expect clear and concise answers on these questions supported by either Quran or Hadith. Thank you.

I will produce an article on this sometime soon...God willing.
However, other English speaking Muslims have clarified the Islamic position on this many times for English speaking audiences


Good luck with your article, because I really think you are going to need it, Insha’Allah.

And I understand that English speaking Muslims have attempted to clarify the Islamic position on this, but they have failed to do so, since the Islamic sources are very clear on this: The Quran, as well as the Tafsirs and the Sunnah are very clear on this. Sex with prepubescent girls is endorsed in Islam.

Nakdimon

Fernando said...

Someone saide: «Unless your Bible clearly sets a minimum age for marriage then your indignation should be directed at your own Bible which does not unequivocally prohibit such practices»...

no my friend... particular aspects off moral life does nott to be milimetrical postulated in the Bible as there are universal orientations thate are clear to everyone to follow...

Yahya Snow... your words onn this subject is getting sick... get a threatment...

Yahya Snow said...

I look forward to David's show with Walid Shoebat, Shoebat, as an Arab, may be able to shed light into the Yemen situation. I hope to see it when I have time.

@Hogan
I hope you are well
No, I'm not the man you think I am. I have never met you Hogan (never mind debated you)

For some reason people keep asking me who I am. Muslims have confused me for Yusuf Adam in the past, somebody asked me if I was Harun Yahya and now Hogan thinks I'm somebdoy who debated him 2 years ago.
Nope Hogan, Ive never had the honour of meeting you :(


@Minoria
I hope you are well.
That verse of the Quran has been explained by myself.
I did not know you were Spanish. I hope to visit one day.
God bless Spain

@Fernando
I hope you are well
Why insult me?

@Nakdimon
I hope you are well
I will write concerning Relaiance of the Traveller

Muhammed's consummation of the marriage with Aisha only took place when Aisha was physically ready for it. This was delineated by her parents. she had reached puberty and was considered mentally and physically mature enough (though the age is disputed)

@simon
I hope you are well.
Please don't insult me. One of your harsh comments has already been the subject of a post on my blog recently
I am defending Islam because it does not allow sex with prepubescent girls. I have researched and wrote/spoke about this subject extensively. In fact I have looked at these claims ever since I first came to Islam (about ten yrs ago now)...so I know what I'm talkingabout, your ridicule and insults will not detract from my research

I am a tad busy now so I will not be back for a while

Thanks for your concern guys

God bless all
Peace

hugh watt said...

Aisha was playing with her dolls still. Is this a sign of maturity?

Sahih Muslim
Book 031, Number 5981:
'A'isha reported that she used to play with dolls in the presence of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and when her playmates came to her they left (the house) because they felt shy of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), whereas Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent them to her.

Sepher Shalom said...

Lupus el Lobo,

I made a post on my blog addressing this issue some months ago in a discussion I had with Osama Abdallah where I provided evidence from Quran and Tafsir that Islam allows sex with prepubescent girls and he charged that the Bible has no minimum age of marriage.

In addition to the comment from David that answers you, I suggest you look here to see how the Bible prohibits sex with children.

Since this type of sexual activity causes physical, emotional and mental harm it is prohibited by both the Tanach and Nazarene Scriptures.

Yahya Snow said...

Hugh

God bless you brother...I hope you had a good Easter break

The scholar Hamza Yusuf even confirms that the hadith is concerning Aisha when she was pre-pubescent and had NOT moved in with Muhammed (p)

So please stop trying to present it as her playing with dolls whilst living with Muhammed.

I have clarified this issue more than once.

We know what we are talking about...like I say, this issue has been discussed extensively by Muslims and it is getting tiresome to see people like you copy and paste from the same websites without even realising how unscholarly and misinformed you look to people who have knowledge on the subject

PS...please dont copy and paste the dolls behind the curtain hadith to respond...it has already been explained.

Thanks
Peace

If anybody has any questions relating to Islam please ask one of my colleagues or go to your local Islamic centre.

I will be away for a while now...God willing

God bless all

hugh watt said...

Yahya, hope you have a good break.
I do have issues with Muhammad being 'encouraged' to marry a little girl when he was 51yrs old. This, as has been explained, may have been ok in the 7th century in Arabia. But why do you suppose Muslims are not so upfront with this in the west? Yes, this has been covered before, but when Muslims highlight child molesting in the R.C.C, i see hypocrisy. How about you?
Copy paste, why not? I'm not here to give original materials. Muslims do not accept the Hadith that show Islam/ Muhammad in a negative light, so i do not expect them to listen to me either.

Odo said...

Yahya I don’t understand what you mean when you say "she was pre-pubescent and had NOT moved in with Muhammad" and "please stop trying to present it as her playing with dolls whilst living with Muhammed"

I am looking at this Hadith right now, Muslim Book 8 Num 3311, and it says: 'Aisha reported that Allah's Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he died she was eighteen years old.

So I see from this passage that Aisha was taken to Muhammad’s house (for the ‘honeymoon’ ie ‘as a bride’) when she was nine and her dolls were with her. So? She was moved in with Muhammad, taken as a bride, all while her dolls were with her right?

Now I had a question about the part that says ‘and she was taken to his house’: I have noticed on some Muslim websites that this ‘she’ is translated as a ‘he’ which makes everything really confusing. Which is it, or is this simply deception and it really does say ‘she’?

Lupus el Lobo said...

David wrote:

Christians don't share the Islamic view of morality (i.e. "If Allah doesn't give me a clear command saying that something is wrong, I can't know it's wrong"). God has written His law on our hearts.

But if you'd like some biblical reasoning, no problem. "Do to others what you would have them do to you" (Matthew 7:12). If I were a prepubescent girl, I wouldn't want a grown man having sex with me and sending me to the hospital. So it would be wrong for me to have sex with a prepubescent girl, according to the Bible. Too bad your religion doesn't command you to do likewise. There would be a lot less suffering in the world.

Lupus wrote:
Worst kind of circular argument: I know what's right and wrong because I'm a christian and filled with holy spirit.
There is thus no clear passage that prohibits child marriage in the Bible. Typical case of throwing stones in a glass house.
This explains the rampant pedophelia among christian clergy.

Hogan wrote
To Lupos, there is actually a passage of guidance in the last chapter of Song of Songs, in which a girl is not given into marriage since physically she is not prepared, particularly since her breasts are not grown. This renders the Old Testament more moral than Islam. Keep in mind also that the Talmud despises a man who marries his young daughter to an old man.

Lupus replied:
The song of songs reference is at best very unclear.
So Mr. Hogan exactly what parts of the Talmud do you follow. Whenever muslims point out problematic passages in the Talmud you christians say hey wait a minute we don't follow the Talmud, but whenever the Talmud supports your argument you refer to it.
This is really typical of christian exegesis; whenever there is a passage in the OT or NT that supports the trinity you use it, whenever something in the OT or NT goes against the trinity you ignore it.

Anthony Rogers said...

Lupus said: This is really typical of christian exegesis; whenever there is a passage in the OT or NT that supports the trinity you use it, whenever something in the OT or NT goes against the trinity you ignore it.

Thanks for granting that there are passages in the OT that support the Trinity. This is such a keen insight I wonder if you wouldn't mind letting Yahya in on it?

Also, since you grant that there are OT passages that support the Trinity, would you care to explain how such an idea is found in the OT even though it was supposedly invented by Christians much later?

If you are tempted to repeat your claim that there are also verses in the OT that contradict the Trinity, which I don't accept for a moment, don't bother. I can grant this assertion for the sake of argument - and, let me emphasize, merely for the sake of argument - but it won't extricate you from the conundrum.

If the OT has passages that support the Trinity, then it wasn't invented at the council of nicea, or by the apostle Paul, or by any New Testament writer. And if it wasn't invented in the New Testament, then Muslims cant object to New Testament passages that support the Trinity, a fact you also admitted, on the grounds that the Jews did not believe in such an idea.

Furthermore, if the OT and NT both have passages that support the Trinity, doesn't this mean that the NT confirms the OT? And if the NT confirms the OT on this matter, why doesn't Muhammad confirm the Trinity in the "final testament"? Why is the "final testament" the odd man out here?

hugh watt said...

Yahya Snow said...
Hugh

God bless you brother...I hope you had a good Easter break

The scholar Hamza Yusuf even confirms that the hadith is concerning Aisha when she was pre-pubescent and had NOT moved in with Muhammed (p)

So please stop trying to present it as her playing with dolls whilst living with Muhammed.

I have clarified this issue more than once.

We know what we are talking about...like I say, this issue has been discussed extensively by Muslims and it is getting tiresome to see people like you copy and paste from the same websites without even realising how unscholarly and misinformed you look to people who have knowledge on the subject.

Bk 8, Number 3311:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

It gets "tiresome" Yahya, when we keep saying to Muslims what they say and their sources say often differ. So, which is right here; you, or the Hadith that contradicts what you said?

I do not expect you to take my word for anything, but please check your sources, i argue from them and not my opinion.

Fernando said...

@ Yahya Snow...

I'm not insulting you: I'm expressing my worry aboutte your mentel help due to whate you've been writting around here lattely: please: go to a doctor and tell him that you think it's ok to habe bsex with a baby child as Aisha or these poor Yemeni brides... take care...

Fernando said...

Why is someone asking a Christian to «what parts of the Talmud do you follow»... how can someone take this gay ceriously?

Lupus el Lobo said...

Anthony Rogers wrote:

Thanks for granting that there are passages in the OT that support the Trinity. This is such a keen insight I wonder if you wouldn't mind letting Yahya in on it?

Lupus replied:
Mr. Rogers, the point was that some passages are used to support the trinity, wheras passages that can't be used to support the trinity are ignored and not part of the final conclusion.

Anthony Rogers said...

Lupus, I'll accept that you didn't mean it the way you originally said it. Of course you are still wrong, but I won't press you to answer for what your colleague, who is now taking a convenient and much needed vacation, could not.

Yahya Snow said...

Hugh PLEASE don't try to debate me on this subject

Just watch the latest vid on my blog...actually I have three/four good vids dealing with it

The latest is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVvywa84tt0

Yahya Snow said...

Odo

I have answered that via an old vid on my blog...please view

Thanks
God bless

Fernando said...

Another treat from Yahya Snow:

«Hugh PLEASE don't try to debate me on this subject»... why not? are you affraide off this? are you running away like you did withe so many other debators around here? hummmm?

hugh watt said...

Since Fernando responded to you Yahya on why i should not debate you on this, i need not say much more as i would have said what he did.
I have learnt that just because a person says something with seeming confidence it does not mean they know what they are talking about. I said i go to Islamic sources to argue from, but notice Yahya, you did not respond to the ref' i copy pasted! Respond to it directly Yahya, otherwise it will look as though you can't defend Islam on this.

saxguy said...

Muslims...ask yourself first before you are asking if Jesus is God. We can answer that questions easily. Ask yourself what is happening in your religion. Is this what you call "peace" in your religion?

Must be able to endure sex???? HOW THE HELL A 9 YEARS OLD GIRL CAN ENDURE SEX???? Mohammad married 6 years old and undoubtedly, he would have slept with her! Do you blatantly believe she can endure sex with him???? Get real!

frency varghese said...

http://uaeprison.com/camelkids.htm

small kids are used as camel jockeys