Wednesday, April 14, 2010

The Angel of the LORD vs. Yahya Snow - Part Four

“We must realise Shamoun’s views on the angel of the Lord would have been deemed heretical during the time of Jesus and indeed before the time of Jesus.” – Rabbi Yahya Snow
Given his trenchant ignorance regarding the Old Testament, I am sure others who are familiar with Yahya were just as surprised as I was to find out that he styles himself something of an authority on what Jewish people believed before and during the time of Christ. In this post I would like to return the favor and surprise Yahya by letting him know he is nothing of the sort. Since few people are likely to be taken in by Yahya’s rabbinic pretensions, I will be brief and will simply provide some relevant quotes from Jewish sources on Genesis 16, a passage I commented on in the first post.

The Septuagint (a Jewish translation of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek before the coming of Jesus): “And the angel of the Lord said to her, Agar, Sara’s maid, whence comest thou, and wither goest thou? and she said, I am fleeing from the face of my mistress Sara. And the angel of the Lord said to her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands. And the angel of the Lord said to her, I will surely multiply thy seed, and it shall not be numbered for multitude. 11 And the angel of the Lord said to her, Behold thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ismael, for the Lord hath hearkened to thy humiliation. He shall be a wild man, his hands against all, and the hands of all against him, and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. And she called the name of the Lord God who spoke to her, Thou art God who seest me; for she said, For I have openly seen him that appeared to me. Therefore she called the well, The well of him whom I have openly seen; behold it is between Cades and Barad. And Agar bore a son to Abram; and Abram called the name of his son which Agar bore to him, Ismael. And Abram was eighty-six years old, when Agar bore Ismael to Abram.”

[n.b. How could the Jewish translators of the LXX produce such a translation when it clearly communicates an idea that is supposed to be the heretical innovation of a 21st Century Christian named Sam Shamoun?]

Targum of Onkelos: "And the Angel of the Lord found her at the fountain of water in the wilderness, at the fountain in the way of Hagra. And he said, Hagar handmaid of Sara, whence comest thou, and whither art thou going? And she said, From before Sara my mistress do I escape. And the Angel of the Lord said to her, Return to thy mistress and be subject under her hand. And the Angel of the Lord said to her: Multiplying I will multiply thy sons, and they shall not be numbered for multitude. And the Angel of the Lord said to her, Behold, thou hast conceived, and shalt give birth to a son, and thou shalt call his name Yishmael, because the Lord hath heard thy prayer. And he will be untameable by man, and he will be needy to every one, and also all men will be needy to him, and before the face of all his brethren will he dwell. And she prayed in the Name of the Lord who had spoken with her; and she said: Thou art Eloha, seeing all: for she said, I also have begun to see after that He hath been revealed to me. Therefore she called the name of the well, The well at which appeared the Angel of the Covenant: behold, it is between Rekam and Hagra. And Hagar bare to Abram a son, and Abram called the name of his son whom Hagar bare Yishmael. And Abram was son of eighty and six years when Hagar bare Yishmael unto Abram."

Targum Pseudo-Johnathan: "And Abram said to Sara, Behold, thy handmaid is under thy authority: do to her what is right in thine eyes. And Sara afflicted her, and she escaped from before her. And the Angel of the Lord found her at the fountain of waters in the desert; at the fountain of waters which is in the way to Chagra. And He said, Hagar, handmaid of Sara, whence comest thou, and whither does thou go? And she said, From before Sara my mistress I have escaped. And the Angel of the Lord said to her, Return to thy mistress, and be subject under her hand. And the Angel of the Lord said to her, Multiplying I will multiply thy sons, and they shall not be numbered for multitude. And the Angel of the Lord said to her, Behold, thou art with child, and thou wilt bear a son, and thou shalt call his name Ishmael, because thy affliction is revealed before the Lord. And he shall be like the wild ass among men: his hands shall take vengeance of his adversaries, and the hands of his adversaries be put forth to do him evil; and in the presence of all his brethren shall he be commingled, and shall dwell. And she gave thanks before the Lord whose Word spake to her, and thus said, Thou art He who livest and art eternal; who seest, but art not seen! · for she said, For, behold, here is revealed the glory of the Shekina of the Lord after a vision. Wherefore she called the well, The Well at which the Living and Eternal One was revealed; and, behold, it is situate between Rekam and Chalutsa. And Hagar bare Abram a son, and Abram called the name of his son whom Hagar bare, Ishmael. And Abram was the son of eighty-six years when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram."

Jerusalem Targum: "And Hagar gave thanks, and prayed in the Name of the Word of the Lord, who had been manifested to her, saying, Blessed be Thou, Eloha, the Living One of all Ages, who hast looked upon my affliction. For she said, Behold, Thou art manifested also unto me, even as Thou wast manifested to Sara my mistress."

[n.b. According to the above Targums, the Angel of the Lord is called “Lord”, “God”, “the Word of the Lord”, “the Shekinah of the Lord”, and “the Angel of the Covenant”; and the Angel is also distinguished from another person called God, for it is said that He “revealed” and “manifested” the Living and Eternal one, and also that Hagar prayed to God in “the name of the Lord who spoke to her” and in “the Name of the Word of the Lord”.]

In light of this, I think Yahya should stick to making pronouncements about Islam and stop pontificating on matters that are clearly beyond his competence.

5 comments:

Fernando said...

Ain't we gibing too mutch importance to someone who clearly expresses so much ignorance as Yahya Snow? Oooops, I'm sorry: I forgot we are talking about a tipical muslim apologist...

Anthony Rogers said...

Don't worry, I think I am done for now. There are dozens of other things that could be corrected in Yahya's attack on the Bible's teaching on the Messenger of the LORD, but I think I've done enough to show that he is in way above his head.

Of course there are lesser things I could have responded to as well, but how many people really need a lengthy post on why Yahya is wrong for ignorantly thinking Luke authored the book of Revelation?

mkvine said...

"Rabbi" Yahya Snow???.....LOOL. Since when did he become a self-proclaimed rabbi?

Sepher Shalom said...

Excellent sources and excellent article Tony!

News Press Media said...

Do You Support More Congressional Hearings on Muslim American Radicalization?

Hey now! Lets not lump every Muslim into the same basket. Look at the bible, it says bad things also!
There are good Muslims... We see them everyday, they are our friends and neighbors...
They are as American as you and I! They pay taxes! ...

Bla bla bla...


The Teaching of Islam and the Qur'an. (Condensed Version)

1. You can marry a 1 year old baby, But not have sex with it until it's around the age of nine, in some cases earlier, because she may be ready sooner, even if she doesn't know it yet. A good indication that she is ready is if she is crying and cowering or shows signs of fear or tries to commit suicide.
You can molest her and fondle her at any age, but just don't sodomize her. If you do sodomize her however, you are forgiven of course, but you must take care of the child you raped for the rest of her life due to rectal incontinence as a result of sodomy. (Oh well, It happens!) Don't worry, the term the "rest of her life" could mean 5 days from now, You decide!

2. When the unwilling child is 9 you may rape and sodomize your child bride all you like and share her with your friends..

3. A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels etc.., But after reaching orgasm he must slit it's throat and kill it. He should then butcher it. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, However selling the defiled meat to the village next door is permitted.

4. When the child bride you rape gets upset you may kill her or beat her, or punish her by throwing acid in her face. After all, she has disobeyed you.

5. You may find yourself a young boy to rape and enslave before or after your child bride has become used up, old or can't cook dinner without arms and legs. You can sell your young boy slave out to old pedophile men in your tribe for money and profit. After all he is your property. But be sure to buy him lots of gifts or he could run away and would have to be disemboweled and set on fire. The young pretty boys love gifts.

6. Get another wife, or 15, what ever feels right. by this time most of them will bring shame upon the family and will have to be killed anyway, So you will always have a steady stream of new child victims, or animals, whatever! No worries.

7. anyone who does not believe in the Pedophile Death-Cult is an infidel and will have to be converted to Islam and the teachings of the Koran or killed, Period. So it's not like you have a choice. It must be done according to Mohammed.

...Yes, islam and the pedophile prophet death cult sounds like joining "Hell on Earth" doesn't it kids?
Well strap on a Bomb and Sign Me Up!

Oh dear...
Let me guess, I am misreading the wonderful "Holy Book of Islam."
I am sure it's all a non-muslims misconception as a result of blatant Ignorance, Bigotry, Islamophobia, Racism and Anti-Muslim Hate.

Nothing to see here folks move along!
Pay no mind to that cave dwelling turd behind the curtain!

If only we all just went to CAIR.com. They could work it all out for us and make us see our ignorance toward Islam.
I am sure It all boils down to a big western misunderstanding of bestiality, murder and child rape. It's all about context.

Americans must be enlightened! Peace be upon You!
Soon the Ground Zero Park 51 Islamic Center in NY will be going up so all of America and Americans can find the true path to Islam and the teachings of the glorious Prophet Mohammed and the Holy Qur'an! Such joys and blessings be upon you!

Do you think we should do more then just have hearings on "American Muslim Radicalization?"
How about having a hearing on the very topic of their religion itself?
Could be a good starting point.
Your thoughts?