Sunday, January 17, 2010

Yahya Snow and the Debate Proposal

Yahya has put up a response to my debate challenge: here. All in all he was polite, a marked improvement upon some past discussions, and he basically accepted my challenge to debate, but several things beg for a response.

In the first place, I found it quite interesting that Yahya spoke so glowingly of my writing style but wanted to make sure that this was not mistaken as an endorsement of the truth of what I say vis-à-vis Christianity and Islam.

As far as my writing goes, I praise the Lord for the extent to which it may be "something to behold", recognizing that I have no gifts or graces that I have not received, and that every good and perfect gift comes down from above, from God in whom there is neither variableness nor shadow cast by turning.

As for the observation that my “beautiful speech”, if I may be permitted to call it such, is not proof that what I say is true, I couldn’t agree more. Solomon said, “A word aptly spoken is like apples of gold in settings of silver,” but it is also possible, as Yahya is implying, to beautifully communicate falsehood. It is sort of like an ugly woman in nice clothes. Or a Surah that says Allah is God. A beautiful package does not necessarily imply contents that are commensurately beautiful or true. Fortunately, the debate I have proposed will have the benefit of letting people look at both sides and see who is speaking the truth. At this point, even before the debate, we can all rejoice that Yahya has already taken a major step forward. Surely it is not insignificant to find a Muslim, who, for all intents and purposes, agrees with Paul (1 Corinthians 2:1ff.) over Muhammad (Surah 2:23-24).

I also found his rather parochial remark that Christians have recently taken up an interest in debating focal issues such as the Trinity to be somewhat interesting. Not only have I never known a day since my conversion when I was not interested in proclaiming the glory of God’s triune nature to guilt-ridden sinners, whether Muslims or atheists or Satanists and whoever else, but Christians have been pressing this great truth in their conversations with Muslims from the present day all the way back to the Christians of Najran. I think Yahya has been living too sheltered a life in the Ummah if he thinks Christians have been reticent to speak to this issue. He also may be laboring under the assumption that the doctrine of the Trinity is beset with logical problems that make it undesirable for a Christian to get into it. I can assure Yahya, the present writer labors under no such notion. Not only do I believe the doctrine of the Trinity to be logically defensible; I believe without faith in the Triune God as the creator and redeemer of the world, that logic itself collapses as arbitrary, just like things such as love and personality collapse on Yahya’s unitarian assumptions.

This brings me to the fact that Yahya says he would be interested in debating the Trinity with me, but, besides the fact that he is a little snowed in at the moment with other issues that he has to address first – and he is right, many of us are still waiting for his response to the issue of John 1:19ff, which is already a long time coming – he has some concerns about the specific debates I have in mind. Yahya says,

“I must add my slight concern regarding the topics Anthony suggested, surely a more encompassing topic should be chosen rather than limiting a discussion on the Trinity to a certain section of the Bible. I would suggest:

Did Jesus teach the Trinity?

This topic should not be limited to a certain Book; logic should be allowed to come into play as well as other sources.

Is Anthony up for this particular dialogue?”
In the name of having a more “encompassing” topic for debate, Yahya suggests we restrict the topic to whether or not Jesus taught the Trinity, which means narrowing our focus to the four Gospels and the book of Revelation, the latter of which also contains the words of Christ, rather than looking at the thirty-nine books of the Old Testament. Of course I am more than willing to debate that topic, and I would even be willing to have an even more “encompassing” debate, such as whether or not the book of Jude, which is the equivalent of a single chapter in most other books of the Bible, teaches the deity of Christ, but I think I should at least be humored first with a debate on the less encompassing teaching of the Old Testament, even though it only consists of 39 books rather than four or five, and only covers the writings of prophets that span a millennia of time rather than a handful of years.

The fact is, in addition to the reasons that are discernible from my tongue-in-cheek remarks tucked away above, there are several good reasons for beginning our discussion on the Trinity with the Old Testament:

In the first place, God gave the Old Testament before the New Testament. I don’t presume, and I would like to think the same goes for Yahya, to have a better pedagogy than the all-wise God.

In the second place, our discussion is on the Trinity and not on the deity of Christ. During the Old Testament period, Jesus, according to the Christian position, was divine and not, as in the New Testament, both divine and human. There are of course many Old Testament anticipations of the incarnation, such as the many theophanies involving the Malakh Yahweh, i.e. the Messenger or Word of Yahweh, but nothing that would involve us in a discussion of the incarnation proper, complete with the state of affairs it brought about and that Muslims like to bring up in an effort to get others to share in their confusion.

Finally, it was mainly with respect to the debate between Sam and Farhan, which in Yahya’s editorial and censorious hands became a monologue, that I was stirred to issue this challenge. That debate was on the Trinity in the Old Testament. Our debate would rectify this little inequity of Yahya’s as it would require Yahya to link to my response. In fact, by refusing to debate this issue Yahya would be conceding my point that he edited that debate because he does not really believe such a position as was maintained by Farhan can successfully withstand refutation.

As for the other debates Yahya proposes, I would be more than happy to do those as well. I am prepared to meet Yahya at whatever level he wishes. First things first, however. Before graduating to a discussion of the Trinity in the New Testament, Yahya first has to go to the school of the prophets, those who prepared the way for the coming of Jesus, God’s Word made flesh. If Yahya does not believe Moses and the prophets, neither will He believe such things if He hears them directly from the Lord Jesus Himself.

I pray that the Lord Jesus will help those, like Yahya, who are slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken. May our debate be a means to that end. I am looking forward to it.


minoria said...

Part 1:


I found Yahya Snow's idea of having a debate on "Did Jesus mention the Trinity? challenging.The answer would be no.NO based on the 4 gospels.


I affirm that based on the 4 gospels Jesus does affirm the PLURALITY of God,which is different from the TAWHEED of Islam.And THAT is the essence of the Trinity,we have a plural God.

minoria said...

Part 2:

In the gospels Jesus says he is God:


Luke 6:5/Mark 2:28/Matt 12:8

2.SON of MAN forgives SINS:Mark 2:1-12/Matt 9:1-8/Luke 5:17-26

3.On the cross Jesus ORDERS God to forgive his executioners(in the original Greek):Luke 23:33-34.

4.When Jesus enters Jerusalem in MATT 21:14-16 he applies to himself PSALM 8:3 which is directed to God.It's like a MUSLIM applying the FATIHA or SURA 1 to HIMSELF(when that sura refers to God).

5.Jesus walks on water and says "Do not fear,I AM"(in the original Greek).He SHOULD have said "Don't fear,it is I."

I AM is one form of God's names(EXOD 3:13-15).It's in Mark 6:50/Matt 14:22-27/John 6:16-21.


Now Jesus in the gospels also refers to God as a SEPERATE person from himself.Yahya would know those verses even better than me.Jesus prays to God,for example.Yet how is Jesus as God going to pray to God if he is God?Unless there we have a plurality in the unity of God.

minoria said...

Part 3:

One possible teaching of the Trinity by Jesus is in MATT 28:19:"Make disciples of all nations,BAPTISING them in the name of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit."

The KEY word is baptism/immersion.It was a JEWISH custom done to signify the FORGIVENESS of SINS by God,that one had changed.

JOHN the BAPTIST did it alot to sinners.


It seems logical to tell people to get baptized in the NAME of the FATHER(one Jewish custom of calling God),but not in the name of the Son and Holy Spirit,unless you are saying that THEY too are the equals of the Father.After all,if you don't think they are God then it's illogical to include them in the ceremony of baptism which includes forgiveness of sins.

Adam said...

Peace to All in the mighty name of Lord Jesus Christ.

Dear People

One of Ahmad Deedat fan keeps on posting spam msg on youtube channel of many Lay Christians.
-"Is there any Christian who can read Ezekiel chapter 23 in the meeting hall? I will book the hall for you and you can invite your people and I will invite my people in the hall. I dare you come in the meeting hall and read Ezekiel chapter 23 in front of all the people. Send me message."-

I challenged him, this was his reply. As I am in India, can any one of you in Ontario Canada make it for the debate.

O People of the Book

In order to debate you have provide the answer of my question on my channel in the hall. The question is below:

Is there any Christian who can read Ezekiel chapter 23 in the meeting hall? I will book the hall for you and you can invite your people and I will invite my people in the hall. I dare you come in the meeting hall and read Ezekiel chapter 23 in front of all the people. Send me message.

Will you ready to answer my above question?


Where in ontario?

The city Toronto Ontario Canada and the Airport is Pearson Inernational Airport.

The cost of the Hall?

You do not need to pay this cost

Who is our opponent

You opponent is Ashfaq Mohammad

It is require that you come to Toronto Ontario Canada then I will take you to hall where you will read Ezekiel Chapter 23 in front of all the people.


Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...


I would not take that Deedat fan seriously, anyone who resorts to spam is not to be taken seriously.

king said...

Dear all,
I am following your site for neatly six month. Only today God has given me the courage to share my veiws. I thank God for all the people who participate in the blog and let their thoughts to be read by thousands. Let our triune God bless us more and more that his kingdom alone expand. Let the rest become obsolete. Our God the Great I AM is with us till the end of the age. Whoever says anything against the Triune God will one day surrender to the will of our Lord God Almighty. I sincerely pray that one day the Spoken Word of God (Jesus Christ) will reveal the Written Word of God (Bible) so that the SPirit of God Almighty will consume the living dead person and bring him to the real knowledge of God.

Fernando said...

Hi brother prem...

glad to see you arounde here to share your views withe all off us and, sepecialy, withe our beloved brothers in humanity: the maometans thate camme arounde here...

please do continue to share your comments withe all off us...

may our beloved God, the Triune God, blesse you and your familie...

Fernando said...

I'm so glad Yahya Snow "accepted" this debate... it is going to bee a good oportunity to see how far he has managed to go since his first steps in maometan apologetics... its like seeing a baby learn how to walk... the question is: will he be hable to live already without dippers? or will he do the same horrendous obration he did when he started posting comments arounde here? We'll see...

Anthony Rogers said...

Several days ago I posted the link to this response on Yahya's blog and he has yet to approve it.

The Berean Search said...

Semper Paratus -

It does not surprise me that he has not approved your comment. Yahya is a massive hypocrite. He has the nerve to complain about David not acting as his personal servant in sending a video he made to a young woman who recently left Islam and even call it 'censorship'. At the same time he has yet to approve one of my comments left several days ago and he hasn't approved yours either!

I just left a comment a few minutes ago on this post from his blog.

Here is the comment:
"I found this posted on the YouTube page of the gentleman in the video about the video featured on his channel:

"This video is for my channel. this is so i can get ajar for it playing over and over when people visit my channel. pass this video on if you want to share some of the ajar."

I think this speaks volumes about the spirit of Islam. Go get your "ajar" Muslims. Let the compulsive urge to outweigh your bad deeds compel you into all kinds of actions. And while you are at it, you are learning how to use other human beings as 'things' that are receptacles for you effort to work your way into heaven."

I wonder if he will approve it? I have no problem with him choosing which comments to allow on his own personal blog but when he runs around crying foul on others and even claims he is being 'censored' his hypocrisy needs to be made public. Anyone who does not know what 'ajar' is you can read the basic definition here.

Yahya claims he was 'censored' and here is the text from his website that makes the claim:

"The much censored video message encouraging a Christian lady to give Islam a chance (everybody can benefit from this video as it leads to a number of fine links, do take your time to browse through the material on offer)"

I wonder if all of the above is a sign of what we can expect if Yahya actually debates Semper Paratus?

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

I also have posted responses on Yahya's blog. He aproved the first two then nothing.

I hope it is because he looking into the Trinity in the OT.

We shall see


ARGISLAM said...

Is there any Christian who can read Ezekiel chapter 23 in the meeting hall? I will book the hall for you and you can invite your people and I will invite my people in the hall. I dare you come in the meeting hall and read Ezekiel chapter 23 in front of all the people. Send me message

CharlesMartel said...


Is it because you Muslims are suffering from a shortage of people who can read that you are looking for someone else to read this at a meeting hall? Or is it because you think Christians are ashamed of the fact that God abominates and judges harlotry? In any event, if you throw in my air-fare, I will be happy to read Ezekiel 23.