I love the ending on that one :-)
praise the Lord.
i cudnt agree more nabeel. arabic style baby lol.
lol u outwited this guy :) too bad hes gonna stay blind despite a good lesson u gave him.
i feel sorry for the sheikh. he himself doesnt understand the quran. how will the rest of the muslims will.
LOL I wonder if the sheikh became christian after that
2 Timothy 2:"24. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;"Titus 3:"2. To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. 3. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another."James 3:"13. Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.14. But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.15. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.16. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.17. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.18. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace."Somehow i dont see meekness, gentleness or peaceableness in Sams confrontational manner.
Yes the use of amphybological therms by muslims is always a "dead end" to them iff they want to be consistent... that's whie they are no such thing because iff they were they had to leave islam as sister Ilena saide: "too bad hes gonna stay blind"...
Eugen said: "Somehow i dont see meekness, gentleness or peaceableness in Sams confrontational manner."Oh boy. It really bothers me when Christians misuse Scripture against other Christians.Eugen quoted some passages saying that Christians, as a general rule, should be nice. And here he's entirely correct. But does this mean that the rule applies in all situations, i.e. that a Christian can never be confrontational? To answer this question, we simply need to turn to the Gospels, Acts, etc. Was Jesus always nice? No. Was He confrontational at times? Absolutely. Were the apostles always nice? No. Were they confrontation at times? Absolutely. So does Eugen's interpretation of the Scriptures make any sense? On the contrary, it would make Jesus and the apostles horrible examples of how Christians are to live!So what's the solution? Yes, as a general rule, Christians should be nice. But when we're confronting false teachers who do nothing but lead people astray, it's time to destroy their arguments. That's the position of Scripture.
Did Osama Abdullah ever call in??? He said in a previous post that he was going to call, maybe it was all talk....
Praise The the Lord Thanks you Jesus for using Bro David, Sam and Nabeel. to expose the cult of KaabaI had some repect for the ancient arabs. But later I dicovered these arabs muslims are such crooks in modern days, They Hijack Airplanes. In ancient times they Hijacked Religions such as Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism.I was surprise to know that, these ancient arabs pirates had also hijack the ancient Vedic religion of my Ancestors. (arabs invaded and robbed rich India in pertext of spreading islam in the sub continent present day divided India's pakistan)Check out these links hope they help other christians. http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htmhttp://volker-doormann.org/the0.htmhttp://www.salagram.net/kaba-stone.htmlhttp://188.8.131.52/search?q=cache:le3UUBzlRdoJ:www.indiadivine.org/audarya/world-review/29662-hindu-god-points-way-10th-solar-planet.html+asteroid+hinduism&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in#
Outstanding climax of the debate with the sheik, right at the end! I really like this website.
Did any other Muslim or Christian find that clip farcical???The final scene was immature and the whole dialogue lacked real coherency...both parties at fault:)
Eugen..You have a point about Shamoun, his style is very abrasive and I feel it prevents him from being taken more seriously by both Christians and MuslimsTo be fair, Eugen, the Muslim community has its fair share of people who behave simiilarly in dialogue situations...still no excuse for it.Thanks
theres nothing wrong with sams style. hes just a passionate debater. thats pretty much it.
Yahya Snow: Could you please now provide your response to the actual content of the clip? Do you think the Sheikh made good points ? Were they weak? How would you respond to the questions from the Christian side had you been the caller?
the sheikh had no understanding to knowledge of Jesus and his teaching. sheikh had no answers just like any other muslims wud either to any of the questions that the christians ask. after all the debates ive seen the muslims will always have nothing to say at the end. Jesus is the true word of God. my question is that" y do the radical terrorist commit murder " if most of the muslims dont believe in killing non muslims then arent they not following the quran and its teaching?
Well done guys! :)I almost got the same hostile response, when I was explaining (accurately) the uniqueness of Jesus' virgin birth, and why this event didn't make sense to me in the religion of Islam, through a comment box of a Christian / Muslim dialog video. But I was basically called (for some strange reason) an idiot by a Muslim for doing so. I try not to get emotional when I'm speaking to people of different faiths, because it's really not surprising to me that we believe differently. Hence, the different faiths. Plus, it's harder to read when a person argues through emotions and not logic (it almost makes one nauseous). Here's how he / she twisted things (when I was clearly speaking of the virgin birth):"no Jesus wasn't the only Prophet and human born without father Adam and Eve were both born without father and mother everything can happen through will of God.You clearly lack knowledge."Can God make the first humans born of a virgin woman? I think it's obvious why God had to make the first humans born without a human mother and father, so nobody is knocking there heads against the wall over this one, and therefore there is really no need for an explanation for the first humans, but I was only explaining the uniqueness of Jesus' birth. Why do some Muslims try to diminish this, and ignore the clear definition of "VIRGIN BIRTH"? I wonder if this is the generic response a Muslim gives a Christian when speaking of the virgin birth.BTW, I found this ministry through the Unbelievable Christian radio program. When I also overheard the name of the Christian on the program, and his Apologetic group, I was pretty positive that I had heard of you folks through James White, and I had to checkout your site! I'm not disappointed that I did. I can't tell you how much time I spent looking through your blog archives over the evenings.Excellent work! This is really a unique ministry you have.God Bless, Tania
I had trouble understanding the last part since I don't know really how WORD and Jesus are related in the Koran.I don't think Sam's style was overly confrontational.A bit at the end,but in all honesty,I didn't grasp the point made,due to my lack of knowledge.Because of that the last minute may not have been confrontational at all.This is what I know:ONLY-BEGOTTEN:I think due to lack of time or because of improvisation it was not explained to Sheikh that MONOGENES(Greek for "only-begotten") means 2 things:1.The only biological son.2.It is a metaphor meaning "unique".That is the way it is used in the NT referring to Jesus.WORD:in the TARGUM the MEMRA(word) is used to mean GOD.In Greek it is LOGOS.So in JOHN:"In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word was God and the Word became flesh" refers to Jesus as God.I know the Koran refers to Jesus as the WORD.So he would be the Word of Allah.It seems the calling of Jesus as the Word in the Koran is a Christian influence.It seems very strange to give him that title in the Koran.Again the use of MEMRA (Word) comes from the TARGUM.Many times in the Targum in order to avoid even writing YHWH they use MEMRA as a synonyme.I repeat this because many thing the word LOGOS in JOHN is due to pagan influence.Because in Hellenistic culture they also had a philosophical concept where they used the word LOGOS.
Minoria,The point is straightforward. According to the Qur'an (4:171), Jesus is the Word of God. (This is obviously something Muhammad copied from the Christians, but without considering the meaning of the phrase.)So we asked the Sheikh, "Is the Word of God created or eternal?" The Sheikh responded that the Word of God is eternal.Jesus is the Word of God, and the Word of God is eternal.
David Wood I am shocked and surprised by your behaviour. If you watch closely from 14:50-15:00 you see that the men beside you (not Sam) went for a high five but you just shut him down and turned away. Why David...Why...:(
Question:What if the shaykh had answered, "The Word is Created"?What would your response had been?Nice video guys.
I probably would have asked, "So the Qur'an was created too?" An affirmative response to this question would have gotten him into trouble.
Isn't it amazing, rather than present a positive case for the points raised from a muslim perspective, Yahya Snow and bfoali would rather talk about Sam's conduct and David not high fiving the pastor. Bfoali, I can't believe I'm even responding to this, but if you take a look again, David is not trying to reject the pastor, because the pastor looked like he was just raising his arms (both of them) in praise to God.Now can you both please clean up the mess that the Sheikh made?
Oh Yeah. I love this one too. I even honored this man on paltalk, taking another alias, namely, Squeeling_Sheikh.
"I probably would have asked, "So the Qur'an was created too?" An affirmative response to this question would have gotten him into trouble."Well I think Muslims are caught between a rock and a hard place which ever way they answer that question.God bless you bro David, Sam, and Nabeel. The videos have been very edifying.
islam: what a waste of intelligence, time, engergy, etc-all the good stuff that life is made up of!
@David: "Eugen quoted some passages saying that Christians, as a general rule, should be nice. And here he's entirely correct. But does this mean that the rule applies in all situations, i.e. that a Christian can never be confrontational? [etc...]"Its clear that these passages refer to disputes.So what are you saying David? Are you denying, that in a civilized discourse we should always be at least nice to each other?
Yahya Snow said...:"Did any other Muslim or Christian find that clip farcical???"I did. Especialy when they deceived themselves with a ambiguous middle fallacy at the end."Jesus is the Word of God, and the Word of God is eternal." As if the Sheik meant in both cases the same with "word of god".
Got to love the Screaming Sheik.Well done guys. I cant wait to listen this weekend.Have you guys noticed that muslims never ever have a answer for anything they believe. For instance, they have no reason why Jesus was born of a virgin, they have no idea why they practice cirmcision, they have no idea what makes swine or other animals unclean. The only thing a muslim can say is that "Allah said so".In contrast in everything we Christians do we can find teh reason in the bible. Its not "YWHY said so, he actualy gives the reason why he says so.
Royal Son...You have to be kidding me.You did not get that it was a joke?Im guessing you didnt, so Royal Son it was a joke and nothing more. I cant even believe it...but anyways good day
Great job again, David and Sam. [Contra the closet Muslim, Sam's behavior was spot-on...just what the situation called for: patient but then pointed when he needed to be.]
Ok Bfoali, my bad, I apologise.Would you like to share your comments about the content of the video?
Eugen said: "As if the Sheik meant in both cases the same with "word of god"... dear Eugen... teh sequence in this debatte was:1) who is Jesus? The Sehik admited He was the word of God;2) is the word of God eternal? He admited is was (it was not asked iff the qur'an as eternal)...3) so Jesus is eternal...where is the falacy? do tou think, then, I suppose, thate there are, atte leaste in Sheik's mind, more than one "word of God"?... is thate so? I woulde be berie greatefull to trie to understand your point? Thankes in advance...
Eugen asked: «So what are you saying David? Are you denying, that in a civilized discourse we should always be at least nice to each other?»...whate do you mean by "nice to each other"?... the point you started to amde was thate Sam was confrontantionalle; David Wood asnswered you, now you speak aboutt being nice... so: is "being nice" the same as "non confrontationalle"?... I do nott think so...so: where in your opinion brother Sam was "not nice"?Thankes in advince...
Fernando said...:"whate do you mean by "nice to each other"?... the point you started to amde was thate Sam was confrontantionalle; "I intended to make a point particularily about >>Sams<< confrontational manner and not confrontation in general. Iam sorry if i didnt expressed this clearly enough.Fernando:"David Wood asnswered you, now you speak aboutt being nice... so: is "being nice" the same as "non confrontationalle"?... I do nott think so..."Actualy, David also spoke about beeing nice:David: "Christians, as a general rule, should be nice. And here he's entirely correct. But does this mean that the rule applies in all situations ..."Fernando: "so: where in your opinion brother Sam was "not nice"?"Apparently, iam not the only one: In defending Sams manner David argued for an exception to rule of beeing nice (in discourse). But i dont get the impression that in practice David makes an exception to the rule. He at least is debating in a civilized and generally fair manner. But Sam Shamoun is just quarrelsome.Fernendo: "Thankes in advince..."Your Welcome
First: I am not a muslim apologist. I am a Christian, and as Christian i think, that in discourse our utmost priority is to stick to the truth, because the truth is always on the side of God and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We can never be wrong, when we stand on Gods side. But that also implies that we are not to misrepresent the meaning of our opponent. We have to look for what he is actually meaning, so that we can really counter >>his<< arguments. Fernando:"where is the falacy? do tou think, then, I suppose, thate there are, atte leaste in Sheik's mind, more than one "word of God"?... is thate so? I woulde be berie greatefull to trie to understand your point? Thankes in advance..."The fallacy is this: Muslims usually mean by "word of god" the quran. But when they say, that Jesus is the word of god, they are surely not saying, that Jesus is the quran. When they say this, its clear that they have a completely different meaning, if any, in mind.So the middle term "word of god" is used in two senses. Therefore its not really one term but two. But then the argument fails. Thats called "the ambiguous middle fallacy", or also "the four terms fallacy".
The more I think about it the more the idea that the sheikh had a confusion with word of God is unconvincing.I mean,from the start David and Sam said they were referring to Jesus.They made that very clear.How was the sheikh going to suddenly think that word of God (in THAT conversation) would suddenly change meaning?Either he understand and meant it(Jesus is God)or made a mistake and said yes when he meant to say no.But not that he did not know word of God as already explained by Sam and David meant Jesus as the word(as found in the Koran).But I certainly don't think David and Sam were trying to tongue-tie or tongue-twist him.Not at all.
Eugen,You missed the point. Muhammad adopted a Christian description of Jesus without understanding the implications. (We even know that Christians started cornering him on this issue, and that this caused him to receive another revelation saying that certain parts of the Qur'an are unclear--i.e. the saying that Jesus is the Word!)So here's the point. Jesus is described as the Word of God. Muslims believe that the Word of God is eternal. So now they're stuck. Either say that Jesus is eternal, or come up with some explanation for why Allah would apply such a term to Jesus, knowing that Christians will interpret this as an indication of Jesus' eternality. But there is no explanation. Muhammad simply goofed.I have no clue why you think it would be overly-confronational to point out such problems in Muslim theology.
Hey Tania:I am glad you like this blog,so do I,especially the debates.I discovered this blog like around 3-4 months ago.I got it by reading answeringinfidels,where David Wood has articles.I like reading him and also MICHAEL LICONA.This is the ONLY website where you can access alot of great Muslim-Christian debates.At first the theme might seem minor,like "Is Islam a religion of peace,is Chritianity?"But when you hear the points from both sides you realize:"This is important."Also checkout jihadwatch by ROBERT SPENCER,faithfreedom.org by ex-Muslim ALI SINA,of Iran,answering-Islam.org(Sam Shamoun writes there),and Atlasshrugs.com,by PAMELA GELLER(Jewish,friend of Robert Spencer).Plus the blog of the atheist,ex-Muslim,human-rights activist,founder of the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain,and who has the campaign "One Law for All Campaign Against Sharia Law in Britain".You see the UK now has dozens of SHARIA COURTS.Her name is MARYAM NAMAZIE(of Iran),and the blog is maryamnamazie.blospot.com
"Did Osama Abdullah ever call in??? He said in a previous post that he was going to call, maybe it was all talk...." I was too busy. Plus, there is nothing of substance that this video has. Yes, the WORD OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY is Eternal, but Jesus, like Adam and all of the creations of the Word, was created from the Word of Allah Almighty. Also, Jesus was given a limited BOOK that enabled him to do limited Miracles, according to the Glorious Quran. I've covered this in great details and provided ample Noble Quranic Verses that demonstrate this at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/word_of_god.htm http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_creating.htm Also, Sam Shamoun had declined debating me three times. I was offered by "Ministry to Muslims" to debate him on three different occasions. It was him who refused. I am ready to take on Sam Shamoun and expose his corrupt bible and false theology anytime. I also already debated David Wood several times. So there is nothing I am scared of here. I promise you, when my time permit I will call the show and expose Shamoun's and Wood's bible and false theology, insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing). Osama Abdallahwww.answering-christianity.com
Also, as to the trinity being misunderstood in Islam, that is utterly false. I've also covered this in great details at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit1_rebuttal.htm Jesus was created from the Word of Allah Almighty, and had the spirit of Allah Almighty blown into him, AS ALLAH ALMIGHTY DOES WITH ALL HUMANS' SOULS: http://www.answering-christianity.com/holy_spirit.htm http://www.answering-christianity.com/word_of_god.htm Osama Abdallahwww.answering-christianity.com
Osama, after reading your responses you will get annihilated by Shamoun like you did last time when you were stupid enough to debate him. PLEASE CALL IN since I will pay to see Shamoun ridicule again. hehehe
Osama Abdullah, but Surah 4:171 calls Jesus Allah's word "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His WORD, which He bestowed on Mary...." So it seems you have two options: 1). You can accept what your Qu'ran says about Jesus (that he is eternal), and become Christian, or 2). You can deny that Jesus is eternal and contradict your Qur'an.I'm not going to your website until you get it fixed. Last time I went, my computer got slow.Christ is Risen, He is Lord!
Hi Eugen...thankes for your explanations... the first one is clear now: I think thate someone can be nice eben when being confrontationall, butt whate is "being nice"? Not putting the finger in the wounds of the other deciese? Not pointting others deficiency? I do not think so... tahte must be done: anounce and denounce in love are the key-words of a Christian...the second point(about the non equal midlle term in ths sylogism) does not convince me... in the exchange of words in the debate no one was talkin aboutte the qur'an... the Sheik admited thate Jesus is the word of God (as teh qur'an sayes so) and then he was asked if the word of God (the one it was being talked aboutt...) was eternal: he saide it (the word of God thate was being spoken: Jesus... not the qur'an) was... so: Jesus is eternal...there woulde be a falacy only if:1) Sam/David switched the meanning off the "word of God" thate was being spoken (Jesus): they did not...2) the Sheik suddenly changed in his mind thate same meaning... and thate is nott a problem to Sam/David...butt the problem is thate the qur'an (no matter whate Osama Abdallah tries to argue...) ays clearly thate Jesus is the word of God and, eben if He's nott the qur'an (obviously), being so He must be not created...thankes
Osama The Great Abdallah: please interact with us here: present your points; debate them here... redirectting always to your site is a camuflage attempt since when we present your falsities from it you never exchange words withe anyone: you only redirect, againe and againe, to another links off yours... to sad...
osamau do realize that the bible is the most accurate word of God according to the all the scentist and docs and all ur historians and wut not. not to mention quran came some few hunderd years after. i want u to show me in the quran the love of God and y he loves his people. people meaning muslims. y doesnt allah like us non muslims?
Hi Minoria,Thanks for taking the time to link me to those websites. I'll have to give 'em a look-see. Thank you :)
Eugen:The Sheik "Mohammad" never made a distinction you have attempted to make for him. Normally when Muslims make the distiction you refer to they say: "Jesus is "A word of God, while the Quran is THE word of God". However everyone can clearly see in the video the Sheik made no such distinction and constantly referred to it as "The Word of God" in all cases thus no distinction was implied implictly or explictly.It appears Eugen imagined a generic Muslim apologist was calling in, when obviously the guys were responding to a specific Muslim who did not even have the thinking capacity to articulate or even imply the distinction, the guys only need to respond to the required needs of the individual, sometimes they are useful and will even give a broader summary, not all the time. So the alledged "middle fallacy" is actually nothing but an imanginary fallacy that an imaginary apologist called in making.. this was in the mind of Eugen.
Finally, no where in this video is Sam Shamoun not "nice", since when is speaking passionately and getting to the point considered "mean"? Sam Shamoun is also following the conditions of the show and the producers, Eugen must think the point of the show is to have unending dialogue with one particular Muslim who rings in and let him get away with saying anything without interupting him...obviously clearly this is not the goal of the producers or the show.It sounds to me like Eugen wants to be in the position Shamoun is in, yet Eugen thinks the audience are "scholars" ,so he would bore us with his dribble, like using the term "middle fallacy" which very little of the Muslim viewers would understand anyway.Sam Shamoun don't ever change your personality for Eugen or anyone. I would also like to hear Eugens opinion on Paul.. I mean was Paul like Moses? He had nothing to say? he had to have someone speak for him? or did he argue and reason from the scripture everywhere he went, specifically in a civilization that LOVED to debate (e.g. rome , greece etc)?
helloi just found some videos from SAM shamoun.http://www.lhmmen.com/studyvideofull.asp?id=12218&fid=0i hope they are useful to beginner in Islam.
@osamaI was too busy. Plus, there is nothing of substance that this video has. Yes, the WORD OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY is EternalYou were too busy writing some hatred for Christianity,or else reading the bible trying to find errors in it.Also, Jesus was given a limited BOOK that enabled him to do limited Miraclesdid your Allah do the miracles in the quran without the help of Jesus?or should we say he was very much incapable on his own??Also, Sam Shamoun had declined debating me three times. I was offered by "Ministry to Muslims" to debate him on three different occasions. It was him who refusedWhy don't you contact him personally to challenge him for debate??or are you too scared to do that after you last humiliating defeat in the Paltalk debate about Mohammad.Even your Muslim brothers saw your debating capabilities and i guess even called you a looser...lolyou seem like a person who doesn't have shame at loosing and want to further expose himself.I promise you, when my time permit I will call the show and expose Shamoun's and Wood's bible and false theology,So far you have only exposed yourself in your debates and another debate with shamoun would be like an humiliation for you.it might even make you commit suicide like mohammed...lolso please think twice before you issue any challenge to shamoun.or just like your friend in Islam nadir Ahmed you might also be lost in your own world along with your website filled with viruses.I don't think that shamoun should debate you,it will only affect his CV debating an self proclaimed scholar like you.lolololwith peaceVJ
Who is DK?Why Do I feel DK is a muslim pretending to be an Atheist. Because this Blog is about Islam and Christianity.Any ways DK I hope this link will help you to understand your islamhttp://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm
@Adam i guess your an Indian christian.there is an christian apologetic organization in India called satya today.http://www.satyatoday.com/Are you aware of them???or are you related to them in any way??
Dear VJthanx you, for the link provide.I am aware of Satya today. you can also check Sakshi Apoogetic Networkshttp://www.sakshitimes.org/They too are really good.Adam
Adam, DK is definitely not a muslim. He has been on my room in paltalk often talking about the many failings of Islam.
Praise the Lord, I luv the ending. Not becoz of the Sam, and friends but becoz Jesus is Allah Word. Allah Word is Eternal, then Jesus is Eternal.This is what moslems were very worried about.
@ Eugen,Somehow i dont see meekness, gentleness or peaceableness in Sams confrontational manner. I beg to differ.Please, don't judge your brother in Christ by using scriptures.Its show that you are looking for self righteous.Syalom @ Sam,Your are great.May the Lord bless you.I know its not easy to debate moslems.I have exprience it.Not becoz of their points but becoz of their behavior, sometimes thay are nasty.Be of courage.I will pray for you, may the Lord gave you wisdom in days to come to face the moslems in any discourse.
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