Monday, August 17, 2009

Rifqa Bary Converts and Exposes Islam--Muslim Retaliation Begins

When the video of Fathima Rifqa Bary first came out, I predicted that Muslims would try to spin her conversion as the rebellion of a young girl against her parents. I didn't know Muslims would go this far.

Anyone who follows news of Christian persecution in Pakistan knows about Christian girls being raped and forced to convert, about churches being burned, about families being slaughtered. Do we expect Muslims to remain silent when a Muslim girl converts to Christianity and exposes Islam? Check out the spin Muslim newspapers are putting on this:

PAKISTAN DAILY--"Pregnant Minor Lanka girl kidnapped by Ohio Christian Church–brainwashed against parents–forcibly converted."

A very disconcerting video is being shown by the Christan church. A minor Sri Lankan girl belonging to well to do parents has been kidnapped by a church in Ohio and being kept away from the legal guardians and parents of the girl. The family maintains that the girls was into drugs, promiscuous behaviour and raunchy messages on facebook. She was discussing sex with multiple older married men. When the parents tried to control her behaviour she refused to do so. On her return to the home she conjured up a story of conversion to Christianity. There are serious accusations against the church on holding a minor girl in custody against the will of her guardians and parents. How many more girls will the church kidnap? Read More.

Now what's going to happen in response? I predict that many young Christian girls in Pakistan will be kidnapped and raped. The message of Islam has been clear from the beginning: "If you expose us in any way, you will suffer horribly."

111 comments:

Unknown said...

Don´t like the Muslim media spin on the story? Welcome to a taste of your own medicine! That´s what Christian groups like yourselves do all the time. Case in point:

`I predict that Christian girls will be kidnapped and raped in Pakistan´

You a Prophet now, to predict the future. Perhaps I shall condemn Christians by saying ´I predict that Christian soliders will kill and rape hundreds of Muslims! (thing is, this has alrady happened in Iraq and Afghanistan!)

David Wood said...

Christians aren't going to rape and kill anyone.

And I don't need to be a prophet to predict the future. I just need to know the facts.

(1) Muslims kidnap and rape Christian girls in order to compel them to convert.
(2) Muslims retaliate when Islam is criticized.
(3) The Rifqa Bary case is an embarrassment to Muslims.
(4) Muslim members of the media are already spinning this in such a way as to bring about bloody retaliation.

Notice something very important, my friends. The Pakistani newspaper is lying about Rifqa. Muslims are lying about the situation.

Does Abdullah criticize them for this? No. In typical Muslim fashion, he condemns people who point out the atrocities, rather than the people committing the atrocities. And when Muslims go on a killing spree in Pakistan, and I point it out, where is Abdullah's finger going to be pointing. At me! After all, I dared criticize Islam!

Nakdimon said...

Abdullah,

I'm sick and tired of you Muzzies complaining about "christian soldiers" all the time. If living among "christians" is that bad, then leave to the God forsaken muslim countries in the Middle East! What stops you from heading to Afghanistan or Iran?

To take an expectation (in the form of a prediction) and equate that with a blatant lie from a major official Muslim media organisation shows that Muslims have no quarrel to spin truth into lie and lie into truth to salvage their pathetic religion.

Nakdimon

Jeffrey Pacheco said...

I think Abdullah accept that the Pak media spin the story. And instead of criticizing what they did. He is justifying their action by pointing fingers on the Christians.

Unbelievable!!!

minoria said...

Hello Abdullah:

Let's argue you are right.And also Rifqa Bary is pretending.Let's go to the real situation.

You do agree with me(and if you don't,then WHY)that in MUSLIM countries we NON-MUSLIMS are discriminated and persecuted(1 million Hindus in Pakistan,4 million Christians in Pakistan,7 million Christians in Egypt,40 % of MALAYSIA is non-Muslim:10% Christian,10% Hindu,20% Buddhist,etc).

In MUSLIM countries there is LEGAL discrimination of us,and also POPULAR street-level acts of harassment against us.You do agree with me I am not inventing it.

IMMIGRATION IS THE SOLUTION

If there was a community of 1 million HOMOSEXUAL people in Egypt or Syria or Algeria,offically recognized as such,then THEY would be discriminated legally or de facto.HOMOPHOBIA would be a reality.

I have no doubt 90% of people in the West would be for letting them come here because their HUMAN RIGHTS are being violated:they would be REAL REFUGEES.

Not like most MUSLIM people who come here from Muslim countries saying they are being persecuted,yet most of THEM would approved of US non-Muslims being persecuted/discriminated in their countries(that's reality,so goes the world).I also would be for letting homosexuals in,I am for the Golden Rule,or Ethic of Reciprocity.

SO?

In the same way Abdullah,the HUMAN RIGHTS of us non-Muslims are being violated legally or de facto in Muslim countries.No doubt that happens to you Muslims here in the West,but you can use our legal system to get respect for your human rights.

There the situation is too rotten for us non-Muslims to ever change those societies.So I say we let ALL non-Muslims in Muslim countries come here to the West easily(Hindus,Buddhists,atheists,secret converts,Christians,Bahais(300,000 in Iran and they are cruelly persecuted)).

THEY are suffering alot more and for a longer time than any discrimination you Abdullah and your Muslim coreligionist ever have in the West.They assimilate or semi-assimilate alot quicker than Muslims.


RIFQA BARY

In atlasshrugs.com,where I first read the Pakistani newspaper article,the website of PAMELA GELLER,she says a friend of Rifqa has said publicly that SEVERAL times BEFORE she fled,she,Rifqa,had told him(or her)that her father had threatened her.

I hope he or she testifies.It is PROOF that Rifqa is telling the truth.That friend was also harassed by Rifqa's father after she left,many times,because it turned out he or she had been the LAST person to who Rifqa had called before she fled.Check out the website,Pamela(God bless her)is very passionate about her case.

AGAIN

Abdullah,I hope you understand we in the West,whether Christian,atheist,deist,etc are for your human rights but also for those of all humanity.You are for our 100% complete human rights also,are you not,not just here but in all the Muslim countries?I hope you say yes.

Fernando said...

Abdullah... your reasoning is sick... can you present any ebidence thate Christian do false claimes as you, muslims, due to your love off taqqiya, do? We Christians do nott need to creatt false storyes aboutt how dreadfull and barbaric islam is: islam do that for itself... on the other hand, muslims, in order to demonize Christianity (and all other religions followinfg the example off that pseudo-religious book that is called the qur'an, as well as those off muhammad) do need to invent these false accusations (like those yourself did in your comment)... so sad...

Nora said...

I think my favorite section of that news article/libel/fabrication is this part:

"Media reports indicate that the Muslim father denies his daughter’s charge that he plans to take her life in an “honor killing” because of her conversion to Christianity. And certainly he could have no intention of committing such a heinous act."

Apparently the author has some sort of Batphone with or direct revelation from God, or how else would he know that?

Oh, the father could never do anything like that, because apostates are never killed in Islam. Nope, not once, not ever. . .

Michelle Qureshi said...

Christian soldiers raping women nowadays? What world do you live in? Or does being from the west automatically make a person Christian?

Osama Abdallah said...

"Christian soldiers raping women nowadays? What world do you live in? Or does being from the west automatically make a person Christian?"

Nabeel,

Most of the West's upbringing is Christian, and yet, history testifies that the most people guilty in:

1- Enslaving people.
2- Colonizations.
3- Mass slaughters of nations.
4- Crusades and slaughtering of millions of people using torture machines that are unprecedented.
5- And on and on and on....


So why all of this from those who come from Christian background? What is the secret behind it? Well, there are several reasons behind this, and here are some of them:

1- Christians, deep in side their cores, know that Christianity is false, and hence, there is really NOTHING to be concerned about. This is why we even see them justifying HOMOSEXUALITY. The Bible Nabeel is no more than man-made writings. Its followers believe in this firmly, and this is why MUCH OF YOUR PRIESTS ARE PEDOPHILES, AND MUCH OF YOUR MINISTERS ARE FRAUDS. This wouldn't come from true believers, Nabeel.

2- Who told you that Christianity prohibits killing the innocent? In the time of war, Christians resort to the Old Testament to see the Laws of War, and THE OT SHOWS NO MERCY TO EVEN THE INFANT AND SUCKLING! Please visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac12.htm#links

To further prove this, Jesus when he returns will declare a massive war on the entire world, and like what happened in the OT, much of the innocents will also die in the process.

The bottom line is this Nabeel: Christians believe and know that Christianity is false. This is why they are corrupt on a massive scale.

As to raping Christian girls, you know that Islam does not allow it. You know that it is a lie. And you know that Islam prohibits it! Only in a time of war after dividing the spoils of war could a Muslim have sex with his new captive. But other than that, I couldn't just walk around RAPING CHRISTIAN GIRLS. I challenge you to show me where this is allowed! And even my captive girl, I am not allow to rape.

To the reader, please visit the link above for irrefutable proofs. And also visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/right_hand_possession.htm

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

In fact, the reason why infidels pay jizyah is for the Islamic State to protect them and to put them under its constitution.

Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/jizyah.htm

Prophet Muhammad, when he died, owed a Jewish man a shield. The money's worth was paid back to the Jew. This is to show you that infidels lived in harmony with Muslims after they paid their jizyah. Now I know that the Jizyah is a form of accepting defeat and being humiliated, but for the everyday life, it also puts the individual under the Islamic State's protection; protection from other Muslims and also infidels. The Jizyah-payer can sue any Muslim in court and win if he was right. This happened during Caliph Ali's rulership. He was sued by a Jew and the Jew won. It is a very famous story.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

chrisse said...

Osama gives us another display of his ignorance of history or his preference for the new-age "history by personal narrative".

1- Enslaving people. :::
Islamic slavery began in the 7th Century and included Christendom, even as far away as Britain. From the 7th Century to the 15th Century, there was no Christian enslavers - only muslims were enslaving. For the 300 odd years of the European/American slave trade, most of those sold were enslaved by muslims who slaughtered whole communities to grab a few people. 90% of those enslaved and taken to islamic countries during that time, died on the journey. 10% of those sold to the Europeans/Americans died on the journey. The islamic slave trade has not stopped. That was the West African slave trade - the East Africa slave trade was purely islamic, the Europeans/Americans had no part in that.

2- Colonizations. :::
Islam is an imperialistic ideology which not only colonises, but also brings masses of muslims in to the colonised country, and deliberately destroys the local culture. European colonisation did not, and maintained the local culture (other than barbaric practices).

3- Mass slaughters of nations. :::
The mass slaughter of innocent non-muslims (in India the muslims would pile the skulls of those they slaughtered into hills of infamy, the frequent pograms of non-muslims (we see this today) and continual razzias into neighbouring countries is ignored by Osama. In recent history, of course, we have the Armenian Genocide and we have Turkey crying crocodile tears for a couple of muslims who were killed when the Armenians tried to defend themselves.

4- Crusades and slaughtering of millions of people using torture machines that are unprecedented. :::
The Crusades, oh my. The Crusades were preceded by 400 years of Points 1-3 above by muslims against Christendom and Christians, and Christendom only finally attacked after the continual breaking of treaties by muslims made to maintain some sort of peace and security for non-muslims both within and on the borders of islamic lands.


5- And on and on and on.... ::::
I agree, we can go on and on and on with the atrocities of the adherents of the islamic ideology which muslims today are either ignorant of, knowledgeable and supportive of, or quite frankly they don't give a damn because whatever their allah god says must be done.

Unknown said...

Osama, are you still alive ?! I wonder why u are commenting here on this topic, and not able to continue commenting on our other topic ?! Dont you really feel ashamed after being exposed ?!

And again you are throughing your website, when We showed our previous lyings and Deception !!! are ou expecting anyone to trust ou anymore ?!

Fernando said...

The Osma the Great Abdallah saide: «In fact, the reason why infidels pay jizyah is for the Islamic State to protect them»... prtotectt them from whom? Who can inflictte them arm when UNDER muslime rule? Aliens? Osama: jizyah is justte nott only another tax: it's a degradating one imposed to inflictt humiliation uppon non-muslims in order to makke them feel subdued and, being soo, bee more leinett to the lies off islam...

Aboutte youre enumeration off pseudo-facts related to Christianity I justte habe to say thate a "lyie" has always short legs...

nonne off them has any relation withe the Chhristian message revealed in the NT... and, as you known quite well, the OT mustt bee read att the light off the NT...

youre attemps to creatte false realities onlie reveal whate you accuse owerselfs: you know it is a totall lyie and in order to creatte psychological tranquility to yourself yoy say aboutt others whate is only a true abouut islam...

The Osma the Great Abdallah... do nott redirect uss to youre site. Presentt here your argumentation...

butt we ALL know you wont do thate, don't we? and we ALL know whye, do we nott? Youre site is full off lyies because itt has to defende the Everestt off lyeis that is islam and you're totally afraied to presentt your inhabilitty to work uppon reall and true facts...

so: The Osma the Great Abdallah: justt prove thate ANY element off thate listt off yours is based onn the Christian teachings (the Bible) and I nott onlie will prove you wrong BUTT also prove using muslims sources (the qur'an and the hadiths) thate all off them are a realitty in islam...

The Osma the Great Abdallah... the reptus is made... let's see on who's side is the true...

p.s.: still withe thate image off thate pagan house off a blod stained rock? shame on you!!!

chrisse said...

Osama's on a roll today.
"Now I know that the Jizyah is a form of accepting defeat and being humiliated, but for the everyday life, it also puts the individual under the Islamic State's protection; protection from other Muslims and also infidels."

Non-muslims are not allowed to carry arms under islam, so they are paying for the right to be defended from armed muslims they are surrounded by within a justice system that deprives them of the right of self-defence and where there is no justice for a non-muslim.

We see today in many islamic countries where non-muslims are being killed, their houses and business destroyed, their churches destroyed and desecrated all because of a lie spread by gossip or at Friday mosque rants. Often this lie is spread because a muslim or muslims want the non-muslim property for themselves.

Osama, islamic justice is no justice, not even for muslims who can also be persecuted under allah's laws. The problem for you Osama is that these abuses are happening today and many (not all) are being reported and we can see for ourselves the reality of islamic peace and justice.

Yahya Snow said...

This is one of many things I dislike about this site.

Sites like this tend to use sad events of real-life in order to capitalise and point-score against an opposing group (the opposing group being Muslims in this case).

It is sad when this happens, this is neither Christian nor Muslim. A sincere person would respect the severity,sensitivity and sadness in situations like these and thus act wioth dignity, thoughtfulness and respect.

Sadly the Christians of this blog fail to do this, in my view, and try to capitalise and manipulate the situation for their own anti-Islamic agenda. Sad, truly Sad!

To be balanced I will also add that Muslims are guilty of such disingenuos acts too. :)


May Allah guide us all, Ameen

Unknown said...

Brothers and Sisters, I found this interesting issue, though it is off topic, but let me write it here. I found that the Jin wrote somethingsimilar to the quran , so the chalenge is not valid anymore. Also A hadith said there was a passgae they couldnt recognize if it was quran or not !!

1: Read Sura 72: where the Jinn is speaking there !!! so there u go, Jin are saying quran !!

2: Let me quote this Hadith First in Arabic, cause As You know quran should be in arabic, and then I will translate it !

صحيح البخاري / كتاب الرقاق / 5957 / حَدَّثَنِي مُحَمَّدٌ أَخْبَرَنَا مَخْلَدٌ أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ جُرَيْجٍ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ عَطَاءً يَقُولُ سَمِعْتُ ابْنَ عَبَّاسٍ يَقُولُ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهم عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يَقُولُ لَوْ أَنَّ لِابْنِ آدَمَ مِثْلَ وَادٍ مَالًا لَأَحَبَّ أَنَّ لَهُ إِلَيْهِ مِثْلَهُ وَلَا يَمْلَأُ عَيْنَ ابْنِ آدَمَ إِلَّا التُّرَابُ وَيَتُوبُ اللَّهُ عَلَى مَنْ تَابَ قَالَ ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ فَلَا أَدْرِي مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ هُوَ أَمْ لا قَالَ وَسَمِعْتُ ابْنَ الزُّبَيْرِ يَقُولُ ذَلِكَ عَلَى الْمِنْبَرِ .

In Sahih Al Bukari Hadith 5957:
.....Said Ibn Abbas Said: I heard the prophet(PBUH) saying: Did ibn Adam posses two wadis of property, he would crave a third. Nothing will fill the maw of ibn Adam but dust, but God will relent to him who repents.and ibn Abbas said: I didnt know if this was quran or not ?! and I heard Ibn Zubair saying that above the stage.

So I guess all this beside many many others who wrote many simialr things to quran in the past and recently (like http://www.islam-exposed.org), makes the quran loses the challenge miserably !!

Radical Moderate said...

Osama Abdallah said...
In fact, the reason why infidels pay jizyah is for the Islamic State to protect them and to put them under its constitution.

Osama, what exaclty are Christians being proetected from? Secondly why does one have the BUY there way into being put under a constitution?

Muslims like to say that the Jizya protects them from serving in the military. For most people serving in the military, protecting ones nation is place of honor, prestiege and social advancement. It is a obligation that most people hold with the highest regards. Secondly being in a islamic military is a way to gain wealth from BOOTY. So once again we have another case of muslims denying Christians access to wealth, honor, preteiege and even social advancment.

Radical Moderate said...

Yahya Snow said...
A sincere person would respect the severity,sensitivity and sadness in situations like these and thus act wioth dignity, thoughtfulness and respect.

Yahya Snow I guess you are not a sincere person, becasue in your entire accusation in regards to this blog I did not here any comments to the situation. Just accusations. The SILENCE muslims is deafining. Thanks for playing

David Wood said...

Yahya Snow said: "Sites like this tend to use sad events of real-life in order to capitalise and point-score against an opposing group (the opposing group being Muslims in this case)."

Translation: "Would you please stop pointing out all the atrocities committed by Muslims around the world! When you see Muslims raping, killing, etc., you should do what all good Muslims do--keep quiet about it!"

Yahya, if you don't like us pointing out Muslim atrocities, you have two options: (1) Go and do something about the atrocities committed by your fellow Muslims, or (2) Stop reading our posts. Like it or not, we're not going to be silent as Muslims kidnap and rape our Christian sisters and burn the churches of our brothers.

Yahya Hayder Seymour said...

David Wood: Notice something very important, my friends. The Pakistani newspaper is lying about Rifqa. Muslims are lying about the situation.

If indeed this is true (can't say I observed the Rifqa story) then this is condemnable, I condemn such.

You further state: Muslims are lying about the situation. (the blatant denounciation of Muslims, without qualification nor specification, rather We are lying about the situation- We see no use of the words "some" or "a few".)


See that is indicative of who you are David, a man who does not practice what he preaches. For earlier on in this blog post, you commented in response to Abdullah (not sure if its Andalusi or not) the following:

"Christians aren't going to rape and kill anyone."

An over Generalisation which I know is something you personally have the habit of doing. Christians have killed and raped many, and will continue to do so no doubt. You would be a fool to deny such.

I applaud you for your intelligence Wood, I can see that now you need to fund that Radio Station, thats when you tuen Political and rally all the Islamophobe bigots, rats and cockroaches who don't espouse to share your same values of "Love" (as you claim to proclaim). That will no doubt bring in the bucks you need for your show.

As to Richard or our friend Nakdimon

You stated:

"Abdullah,

I'm sick and tired of you Muzzies complaining about "christian soldiers" all the time. If living among "christians" is that bad, then leave to the God forsaken muslim countries in the Middle East! What stops you from heading to Afghanistan or Iran?

Typical bigoted remark, a so called proponent of Freedom of Speech trying to limit our freedom of speech by telling us to go back to the Middle East just for mentioning Christian soldiers.

You Christians can't make your mind up, there is either:

1) No such thing as a Christian country hence we can stay wherever we like, no matter what the majority of the population is.

or

2) The Countries we live in are Christian and hence can be used as exemplars of Christianity.

As for calling us "Muzzies"

Ok, I'm sick and tired of you Junkies (Holland has a horrible drug problem) moaning about us Muzzies.

To take an expectation (in the form of a prediction) and equate that with a blatant lie from a major official Muslim media organisation shows that Muslims have no quarrel to spin truth into lie and lie into truth to salvage their pathetic religion.

Another generalisation as if Muslims are all represented by a Pakistani news group, as for calling people's religions "pathetic", David Wood, I suggest you try telling your guests to behave themselves, although I do understand you may turn a blind eye to rudeness until you raise enough donations for your radio show.

Unknown said...

More than Dreams: The story of Khalil ( an ex muslims- ex terrorist)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8gPDKqXg0E

David Wood said...

So Yahya is trying to psychoanalyze my reasons for my posts about Rifqa.

Has anyone ever noticed that Muslims always look for some absurd and immoral explanation whenever Islam is rejected or criticized?

When Nabeel leaves Islam, Muslims say that he must have been paid by Jews to leave Islam. (After all, he couldn't have actually noticed massive problems with the religion, and he couldn't have actually been impressed by the evidence for Christianity.)

When Rifqa runs away from her parents, Muslims say she must be pregnant, lustful, and rebellious. (After all, she couldn't actually be worried that her father will murder her--something which happens regularly in the Muslim world.)

When I post a video about my sister in Christ pleading for help, and when I see a Pakistani newspaper misrepresenting the facts in an effort to increase the rapes and kidnappings already happening in Pakistan, I must be doing it to increase funding for a radio show. (After all, I couldn't really be upset about Muslims lying about my Christian sister, or about my Christian sisters who are going to be raped in retaliation.)

Now you've upset me Yahya. You need to realize that Muslims are doing some very, very sick things in the world. And you need to realize that when Muslims like you spend more time attacking people who point it out than you do attacking the people who are committing the atrocities (spare me the token "Yeah, yeah, I condemn all that stuff), you really increase my revulsion. Your underlying assumption is that we can't possibly be concerned about people like Rifqa, or about churches being burned in Pakistan. Trust me, these things bother us, as does your attitude. (And then you have the nerve to tell me to rebuke commenters for their remarks about Islam??? You complain about comments by Christians more than you complain about rapes and murders committed in the name of Allah! Islam is corrupting you more and more by the day.)

chrisse said...

Yahya replies to Nakdimon:::
"Typical bigoted remark, a so called proponent of Freedom of Speech trying to limit our freedom of speech by telling us to go back to the Middle East just for mentioning Christian soldiers."

No, Yahya, it is the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Conference) block in the United Nations who actually is trying to limit free speech in the West by introducing blasphemy laws with UN sanction.

Pakiston initially tried to introduce these in 1999, but it was knocked back because it was explicitly and only for blasphemy against Islam. Recently it passed because it still explicitly only mentioned Islam, and implied other religions.

What we need is lawyers with the bollocks to take this on. By that I mean - it is Islam that blasphemes Christianity, it is Islam that incites hate and violence explicitly to all non-muslims.

I'd love to see the ideology of Islam on trial, with the naked truth, and thrown out of the West (at the very least).

Further, the continual references to "christian soldiers" is simply erroneous. There is no army of "christian soldiers" operating under the laws of the Bible, sir.

There are however thousands of groups of muslims operating under the laws of Islam in the preferred form - razzias, small hit and retreat attacks against innocent, unarmed and defenceless people, like the cowards that they are.

nma said...

Osama Abdubllah said...

The Bible Nabeel is no more than man-made writings. Its followers believe in this firmly, and this is why MUCH OF YOUR PRIESTS ARE PEDOPHILES, AND MUCH OF YOUR MINISTERS ARE FRAUDS.


As if the ridiculous book called Al-Quran is from God! IT IS NOT FROM GOD EXCEPT THAT THE FALSE PROPHET MOHAMMED SAID IT WAS FROM GOD.

It's no secret much of your Mullahs and Imams are pedophiles, especially with boys? Your false prophet Mohammed himself was a pedophile. Also, it is no secret that they preach violence in Mosques.

Osama said: To further prove this, Jesus when he returns will declare a massive war on the entire world, and like what happened in the OT, much of the innocents will also die in the process.

Why are you lying? Where does it say much of the innocents will also die?

Osama said:As to raping Christian girls, you know that Islam does not allow it. You know that it is a lie. And you know that Islam prohibits it!

Again a blatant lie! Islam indirectly condones raping slave girls and don't prohibit raping non-muslim girls.

Osama said:And even my captive girl, I am not allow to rape.

Having sex with an unwilling captive girl is rape and the Quran indirectly condones it.
So stop lying.

Osama said:This is to show you that infidels lived in harmony with Muslims after they paid their jizyah. Now I know that the Jizyah is a form of accepting defeat and being humiliated, but for the everyday life, it also puts the individual under the Islamic State's protection; protection from other Muslims and also infidels.

Sounds like Mafia! Please don't defend that is not worth defending.

nma said...

Abdullah said...
Perhaps I shall condemn Christians by saying ´I predict that Christian soliders will kill and rape hundreds of Muslims! (thing is, this has alrady happened in Iraq and Afghanistan!)
Did Christian soliders rape hundreds of Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan? I heard about one or two rapes by the Western soldires but not hundreds and religion was not involved in it. But if Christian girls will be kidnapped and raped in Pakistan in retaliation to Rifqa Bary incident, religion will be the major factor. Can't you see the difference?

Radical Moderate said...

I wonder how many Muslims believe the story in the Pakistani Daily News. For those of you Muslims who do believe it lets take a look at some of the inconsistencies in the article.

1. The girl was kidnapped, by an Ohio Christian Church, brainwashed and forcibly converted.

What's wrong with this opener? First the girl got on a bus of her own free will. The article even confirms this, she traveled to Florida. The church is in Florida not OHIO. The article also says that the girl is pregnant, into drugs, and that her loving Muslim parents wanted to curb these behaviors that their Muslim daughter was engaging in.

2. The article then states “On her return to the home she conjured up a story of conversion to Christianity.”

So if she conjured up the story about converting to Christianity to escape the punishment for the behavior that she was engaging in as a Muslima. Then how exactly did this Church in Ohio that is really in Florida brainwash and forcibly convert her to Christianity.

It is amazing that this article would call a Muslima teenager a slut, and a drug addict, then a manipulative liar. If she made up the whole story then isn’t the church and the Pastor a victim of a lying, drug addicted, pregnant Muslima whore?

3. The article then makes the accusation “There are serious accusations against the church on holding a minor girl in custody against the will of her guardians and parents. How many more girls will the church kidnap?”

First the Church is NOT holding the girl, she is in the care of Family Services. Second it was the pastor and his wife who called DCFS. Again the accusation that the church kidnapped her even though she got on a buss of her own free will, and made the story up of converting to Christianity to escape her parents punishment for being a sexually promiscuous teenage Muslima. But I hope this Church rescues even more sexually promiscuous drug addicted Muslim teenagers from that life style.

4. Finally the Conclusion “The girl should immediately be returned to Child Services which are the rightful authority for resolving family issues. The Church has no right to kidnap girls and keep them away from the parents.”

As stated above the girl is in the care of Child Services, and the girl was not kidnapped by this Church. If the writers accusations are true about this girl, then the Pastor, his wife and the Church are all victims of a liaing, sexually promiscuous drug addicted pregnant teen age Muslima. So Muslims please control your daughters and make sure they don’t grow up to be like Fathima Rifqa Bary. Because if you do, a Christian Church might just have to rescue her from her Muslim parents.

Anonymous said...

The Crusades saved Europe from Islam but it didnt save Christians from the Islamic slave trade in north africa that enslaved millions of Christians over the ensuing centuries. Islam has no problem rewriting the books with their own counter knowledge and pseudo history. Its permissible for them to lie about history when Islam benefits.

Islamic Priorities

Sepher Shalom said...

David,

I tried following the link and I got this message posted on their webpage:

"404 Error! Not Found Page
Sorry, the page you were looking for has either been deleted or moved. Try a search in our archive?"


Anyone else having this problem? Did the Pakistan Daily move/remove the article?

Here's a post about Rifqa at AtlassShrugs that discusses how she was the recipient of beatings from her father and brother.

David Wood said...

They must have taken it down. Good.

Radical Moderate said...

I wonder why they took it down? Did they take it down becsue of the false accusations against the Church, or did they take it down becsaue of he horble things they called a Muslima, in order to attack Gods Church?

David Wood said...

I suspect they got an immediate volley of criticisms, and that, in an effort to appear as if they're real journalists (and not mere propagandists), they took it down.

Sepher Shalom said...

David said: "...in an effort to appear as if they're real journalists (and not mere propagandists), they took it down."

Sounds about right. Even Abdullah, in all his zeal to criticize you and Christians acknowledged that they are being dishonest. He called the story "spin" [which would seem to be the understatement of the month on this blog].

minoria said...

Hello Yahya Hayder Seymour:

Glad you are reading the blog.It is addictive.I am a bit surprised Osama also still reads,but it's good.

You strike me as a good person,in essence,and I think you would say Islam with it's "no compulsion in religion"phrase in the Koran is against killing apostates.That's fine with me.

It seems you have influence in your community,you know people who know people.Say HONOR KILLING is purely cultural in Muslim countries,ok with me.But it EXISTS among Muslims.Honor killings are taking place for X reasons:girl is going out with a boy,changes religion,etc.

RIFQA can get killed.One of her friends has said she had told him/her her father had threatened her several times.It was BEFORE Rifqa fled.

HELP HER LIKE A GOOD MUSLIM

You can get your Muslim organization to send a quick communique to Pamela Geller(atlasshrugs.com) or Robert Spencer(jihadwatch.org)(they can contact Rifqa's LAWYER).

To send the message to SHOW to the judge who will decide her custody
that among Muslims death by HONOR KILLING is very real.It's better to err for what is right than not.The evidence supports Rifqa.You can write it has nothing to do with Islam(fine with me)but that due to cultural reasons there is a REAL danger to her.That is what God would prefer.

FOR EXAMPLE

If it were the other way around,and there was a cultural practice of HONOR KILLING among Christians for those who left the religion,and RIFQA was a Christian who went over to Islam,then without ANY DOUBT:

answering-islam.org,
answeringmuslims.com,Jews for Jesus,Michael Brown,
Michael Licona,William Craig,and others of influence in the Christian group would send reports to the judge saying that such a bad practice exists among Christians and Rifqa's life is indeed in possible danger.

We are doing are part,you also accept Jesus as a prophet,the second greatest,and you know he would approve of it.

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

Yeah, I agree with Osama Abdullah (how are you man)... Nabeel and David you and I both know Islam does not allow "rape" of female captives. This is just silly. It is sooo silly let me silence this false propaganda piece of my friend David Wood:

http://answering-christian-claims.com/ProphetMuhamamd_and_slavery.html

Also from the teachings of the Quran and the Hadith-- it is very important that a man FREES and MARRIES his slave girl (or right hand possession):

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, OR (a captive) that your RIGHT HAND possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. (Quran 4:3)

Narrated Abu Musa: Allah's Apostle said, "He who has a slave-girl (or a woman of captivity) and educates and treats her nicely and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward." (Bukahri Volume 3, Book 46, Number 720)

Anyways I am headed back to School--School is very important-- so I won't be coming back here (unless there is a debate challenge in Michigan) I just want to say it was a pleasure speaking to the people of this blog, especially Nabeel-- I have learned a lot and hope others have learned a lot from me as well.

If I said anything offensive, I apologize and If your interested Nabeel-- sometime next year lets do Was Jesus Resurrected?

As for me not doing is Muhammad a Prophet of God-- ITS TOO BIG. Its not that I am afraid to do it-- its just I don't how to do it because of all the sub-topics relating to this one topic. Plus after seeing this debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVxKA21MtI&feature=channel_page

I will never do the topic.

Anyways special thanks to David Wood and Nabeel Qurehsi-- keep an open mind and down the road you may be convinced of the truth of Islam

Forever yours in Islam
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

oh you may also want to read this by my friend and the boss of all bosses Bassam Zawadi:

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/does_islam_permit_muslim_men_to_rape_their_slave_girls_

yeah I love this guy.

Thanks,
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

minoria said...

Sepher Shalom:

Just read 1 min ago the atlasshrugs.com info about the evidence that Rifqa's father beat her for no good reason several times before she fled.It is MORE than enough evidence to deny him any custody.

YAHYA SEYMOUR,please read the article.It will convince you.I was shocked.I have heard of child abuse before.

CANADA

Take the case of 2 months ago where an AFGHAN father,mother and son killed 3 girls and a woman.They were the man's 3 daughters.

He was recently discovered only like 2 weeks ago.Before that time everybody in their street in Montreal was impressed by how sad and heartbroken he was by their deaths.It was a FARCE.

THE SAME

So Rifqa's father's pretense to the cop,which convinced him he was "kind and loving"is a farce also.TOO MUCH evidence against him.She looks like an angel,the only good person in that family,not even her OWN mother thinks of her fate.

Unknown said...

Watch this hate messages by a well known Mulsim Scholars:

http://www.islameyat.com/post_details.php?id=1861&cat=28&scat=20&

http://www.islameyat.com/post_details.php?id=1803&cat=28&scat=20&

http://www.islameyat.com/post_details.php?id=1804&cat=28&scat=20&

http://www.islameyat.com/post_details.php?id=1707&cat=28&scat=20&

http://www.islameyat.com/post_details.php?id=1679&cat=28&scat=20&

http://www.islameyat.com/post_details.php?id=1616&cat=28&scat=20&


Christian Copts Under Seige (very touchy):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r2NnLZBEzk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmIuqgMrUFo

(Feel free if you want to post them separate or so)

Unknown said...

Muslims are dreamin to form the USI : the United States of Islam

http://www.islameyat.com/post_details.php?id=1454&cat=28&scat=20&

Unknown said...

Another islam Hate message:
since muslims consider Obama as an apostate, so he should convert to islam!

http://www.islameyat.com/post_details.php?id=1051&cat=28&scat=20&

(feel free to post this separate)

nma said...

Ehteshaam Gulam said..

Nabeel and David you and I both know Islam does not allow "rape" of female captives. This is just silly.

The Quran 23:6 allows the believers to have sex with slave women. It does not say the women need to be willing. So indirectly the Quran allows sex with unwilling slave women and having sex with unwilling women is called rape. Marrying them to get double reward (144 virgins?) is another matter altogether.

Fernando said...

@ Young Ehteshaam Gulam...

Neither Quran 4:3 nor Bukahri Volume 3, Book 46, Number 720 says a man has to marry the slave girls BEFORE making sex withe her... are you juste blind, or do you intend to make us so? why do you, being such an intelligent person, persist in going through the path off lying and creatting false realitties? some psychological problem inherent to your beliebes?


@ brother Prophet...

great points you made in responding to The Osama The Great Abdullah... I wantted to do the same, butt I know thate won't worke withe him... he just ignmores willingly the truth. The only way to bee paedagogical hithe him is to aske him to postte his (false) evidences so we can refutte all off them... butt eben then he does nott take those lyies he presents off his infamous site full off decipte...

Nakdimon said...

@ YAHYA SEYMOUR 1

Typical bigoted remark, a so called proponent of Freedom of Speech trying to limit our freedom of speech by telling us to go back to the Middle East just for mentioning Christian soldiers.

Yahya, its amazing to see you guys being proponents of “freedom of speech” when it suits you but then quickly turn around and call others “bigoted” when they give you the facts about your poor religion. It is you guys bickering about how bad Christianity is and how good Islam is. If that is the case WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE IN THE, according to you, “CHRISTIAN WEST”? If anything you claim is true, you should be jumping at the first opportunity to immigrate to Islamic countries. Just as eager as the Muslims fleeing the Islamic countries to have a better life in the “Christian West”. Do you at all understand what I’m saying? I have nothing against Muslims speaking their minds, as long as those thoughts are based on facts and do not demonize others without unsubstantiated proofs. Abdullah was doing exactly the opposite and so did that article from Pakistan!


You Christians can't make your mind up, there is either:

1) No such thing as a Christian country hence we can stay wherever we like, no matter what the majority of the population is.

or

2) The Countries we live in are Christian and hence can be used as exemplars of Christianity.


And of course you have to misrepresent what I said and thus what the entire point was. I was holding Abdullah to HIS OWN standards! I never claimed that the West was Christian. HE DID, by labelling the soldiers of Western countries as “Christian soldiers”. It is also a well known secret that Muslims will blame Christianity for the debauchery and crimes in Western society. So when there is something negative going on, it is Christianity to blame, but if something good is going on, it cannot have anything to do with Christianity. This is the line of reasoning I find with Muslims all over the place. So my argument remains untouched.


As for calling us "Muzzies"

Ok, I'm sick and tired of you Junkies (Holland has a horrible drug problem) moaning about us Muzzies.


Yeah, you have absolutely no clue of what you are talking about. Apparently you heard someone saying something and, in typical Muslim fashion, never bothered to see for yourself if this is true. There is no drug problem in Holland whatsoever! That soft-drugs is legalised here, doesn’t make it a drug-problem. There is no excess in drug use. Virtually no one dies of an O.D. So where is the problem? What is fascinating is that the Coffee Shops are filled with guys who come from Muslim homes, who refuse to drink alcohol but have no problem to get high smoking a “jizoint”! You should actually come and see it sometimes. It is only a 2 hour travel from London.

I am only using the word Muzzies for those that use the dumbest arguments in the Islamic rebuttal book. And I use that term with all due respect. If you have a problem with that, I would like to know why that is.

Nakdimon said...

@ YAHYA SEYMOUR 2

Another generalisation as if Muslims are all represented by a Pakistani news group, as for calling people's religions "pathetic", David Wood, I suggest you try telling your guests to behave themselves, although I do understand you may turn a blind eye to rudeness until you raise enough donations for your radio show.

Unlike Muzzies, yes I did say Muzzies, Christians generally aren’t that childish to use donation money as a tool for blackmail. If I get rebuked by David, I will still donate to the radio show. And Islam IS pathetic! I have seen this behaviour over and over again that when someone exposes Islam he is being called a liar by Muslims even though they have never looked into those claims. As if it is a build in triggering device to declare anyone a liar who speaks against Islam. This behaviour is Islam’s trademark! This behaviour has led to the constant ignoring and denying and attempts to justify Islamic atrocities and pointing the finger to others instead of dealing with those atrocities and admitting guilt. Not only on this blog but also on other media outlets. This is not only the case about this article from Pakistan, Yahya, this article from Pakistan is just a perfect illustration of how lies are spun into “truth” by Muslims, history is re-written by Muslims, good acts are placated as bad acts by Muslims, etc., all for the purpose to forward Islam. Not a word of condemnation on this blog from any Muslim, only attempts to justify that report. Although, I must say, that you have been a good (and extremely rare) example to the contrary and have condemned the report, for which you should be commended. But this is no reason to brake out the (alcohol free) champagne, since that is no reason to generalize and assume that all Muslims follow your good example, even by your own standard.

Nakdimon

Fernando said...

Young Ehteshaam Gulam, I just finished reading the post you placed to the worke off Bassam Zawadi (yes, the same Bassam Zawadi thate treatt our good friend Abdul Haziz when he started to learn somethings abouute islam in this site...)... do you really beliebe in whate he says? Do you nott realize the twists and twists inside twists and twists he does to deny the truth? woulde you like to present here is chaind off reasoning so we could all refutte it? It woulde bee so easy... he uses wordes in an amphibological way, expecting other nott see thate they can habe different meanings in differente contexts; he makes false translations off texts in order to solidify his srgummentation expecting other nott to see thate, doing so, he only is increasing his lyies; and so on...

Young Ehteshaam Gulam... this thread is on weather our good and loved friend Rifqa Bary will suffer iff returning to her parents... why are you talking aboutte muslims being allowed (as they are) to habe sex with slaves? Do you think she's in danger off suffering such an atrotious reality iff returning to Sri Lanka?

So: presentte her the points Basam does in his vacuum text and they'll all bee refuted... ALL WILL BE REFUTED... butt we all know you won't do tahte... don't we... you're becoming like The Osama The Great Abdallah: incapable off defending his beleibes in a frontal and direct way... doi you know whate tahte menas, don't you? Only thate you are afraide off the realitty... thate tels a lott about your religion and youre trust in it... to sad...

Fernando said...

Having putting my eys in this jornal "Pakistan Daily" we founde this amayzing statement: «The Shia-Sunni divide is part of Zionists’ strategy»

http://www.daily.pk/nationalism-another-name-for-racism-9094/

Well: that says everything aboutte the credebility off this newspaper... this article, by the way is a "summa" off lies:

# 1: Christianity was a national or tribal religion... really? Hummm... Did nott Jesus had non-jewish disciples? And did not Paul become the apostle off the gentils?

# 2: Since the time of muhammad all major non-muslim communities had their religious, criminal, and social affairs were handled by separate courts – mostly presided over by Chief Rabbi or a Bishop... no where, under a muslim governement, had Christians an independent court, and nevr was some Bishop allowed to have the criminal and social power...

# 3: in 636, the second Caliph of islam, took-over the site of the Jewish Temple of Solomon which was used as a city garbage dump by local Christians... that's a balant lyie!!! That's a myth created by persons like Karen Armstrong (http://www.time.com/time/2001/jerusalem/islam.html)... the Geena, in the Valley of Hinnom, was always neer the walls off the antient city!!! the fact is thate stones from the antient temple were used to support the garbage accumulated there!!!

# 4: in 711 arab muslim army liberated Spanish Jews from the Church slavery... whate can we say abboutt this lye? As iff the invasion off the Iberia peninsula was to defend the jews... why do they not speak off the pogroms thate were latter made? or thate muslims kidnapped non-muslim babyes to become muslims? ore thate the jizya became more than 300% higher on non-muslims than to muslims?

butt the moste notorious is to make the Umma the greatest protector for Jews... amayzing!! No wonder muslims are so delusional iff they read all these lyes...

Yahya Hayder Seymour said...

David Wood said:

So Yahya is trying to psychoanalyze my reasons for my posts about Rifqa.

Not really, it literally came to the front of my mind, there was no trying or effort involved.

Has anyone ever noticed that Muslims always look for some absurd and immoral explanation whenever Islam is rejected or criticized?

Has anyone noticed that instead of addressing me personally, you perform to your little audience here and attempt to tie my actions to the actions of literally all those who profess Islam.

Yahya: David, I've noticed you've switched to Politics (action y).

David: Ohhhhhhhhhh can we see, Yahya has done action X, MUSLIMS ALL DO ACTION X whenever I do action Y.

Yahya Hayder Seymour said...

When Nabeel leaves Islam, Muslims say that he must have been paid by Jews to leave Islam. (After all, he couldn't have actually noticed massive problems with the religion, and he couldn't have actually been impressed by the evidence for Christianity.)

Nabeel left Qadiyanism not Islam, so any Muslim idiot or loser who says what you accused Muslims of saying is purely ignorant of facts, Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was under the paycheck of the British, so his original point was the real funded religion.

Mind you, anyone who merely watches Nabeel's emotional performance in his debate with Williams, where he starts off mentioning that he wouldn't raise any issues of morality, then turns in an emotional song and dance to the issue of Saffiyyah, truly shows an intellectual integrity right David?

When Rifqa runs away from her parents, Muslims say she must be pregnant, lustful, and rebellious. (After all, she couldn't actually be worried that her father will murder her--something which happens regularly in the Muslim world.)

You are purposely spinning this Wood, and you know it. I personally converted from one faith to another, and as someone with a parent who acted physically violently and abusefully towards this conversion I can appreciate more than You ever could. So please, don't preach to the Choir Wood.

When I post a video about my sister in Christ pleading for help, and when I see a Pakistani newspaper misrepresenting the facts in an effort to increase the rapes and kidnappings already happening in Pakistan, I must be doing it to increase funding for a radio show.

I just find it too convenient that after you and I discussed the Shari'ah in Dearborn issue, and you conceded on so many points, You never mentioned A SINGLE ONE of those points in your latest report of the videos. Heck you even admitted that the vast majority of posters were Bigots and ignorants and not Christians. Yet conviniently you pride in the fact you reached over a Million views. In reality it shows you have no concern for truth.

C'mon for God's Sake Wood, Mary Jo was attacked by a Security guard without Hijaab on for God's sake! And this is meant to be Shar'iah, it's a far cry from the Burka and Niqaab clad Shar'iah you guys are normally preaching to us.

(After all, I couldn't really be upset about Muslims lying about my Christian sister, or about my Christian sisters who are going to be raped in retaliation.)

I don't know if you are upset, perhaps you are and I would give you the benefit of the doubt here. However how come I have never in my life seen you condemn any attrocities committed by non-Muslims upon Muslims, secondly you incite plain hatred by asserting that Women by Muslims will be raped by this one case in the States.

Now you've upset me Yahya. You need to realize that Muslims are doing some very, very sick things in the world.

Oh, I've upset you?! Cry me a river Wood.

Do you not think I realise that Muslims are doing some sick things? Of course I do, I know more about that than you probably do. I've actually lived in the Middle East.

However unlike you, I realise that this campaign of demonisation is but SICK itself and that SICK people do sick things, be they Muslims, Christians, Buddhists or whatever.

And you need to realize that when Muslims like you spend more time attacking people who point it out than you do attacking the people who are committing the atrocities

I'm attacking you for demonising an entire religious faith, as well as purposely and without condemnation feeding your rhetoric into the mindset of Islamophobes and bigots worldwide, without once condemning their bigotry or comments.

.

Yahya Hayder Seymour said...

(spare me the token "Yeah, yeah, I condemn all that stuff)

Spare me, the attempt and claiming I am a hypocrite who condemns nothing. You ask for condemnation, when a Muslim actually condemns it, you dismiss his condemnation wholesale. You are not God, Mr. Wood, nor do you know me well enough to know what I condemn.


you really increase my revulsion.

The feeling is mutual.


Your underlying assumption is that we can't possibly be concerned about people like Rifqa, or about churches being burned in Pakistan.

There was no underlying assumption, purely impartial observation.

Trust me, these things bother us, as does your attitude.

If you say so.

(And then you have the nerve to tell me to rebuke commenters for their remarks about Islam???

Tu Quoque.

You complain about comments by Christians more than you complain about rapes and murders committed in the name of Allah!

You know nothing about my actions outwith your little community of Islamophobes and wannabe scholars of Islam, so you best keep your mouth quiet about what I complain about more. Otherwise your statements are those of an uninformed ranter.

Islam is corrupting you more and more by the day.

Just be glad I am a Muslim changed by the will of God, otherwise insults in this comment would be abundant as would language of an inappropriate nature

Radical Moderate said...

Yahya Seymour said
"I've actually lived in the Middle East."

I love it when western converts to islam say they lived in the middle east. Yahya you didnt live there you vacationed there. You were always a outsider, a guest. You were never fully accepted into the comunity as one of there own. I know this becasue it takes along time to incorporate oneself into a community.

Radical Moderate said...

Yahya Seymour said
"I'm attacking you for demonising an entire religious faith,

1.) It is the dogma of islam that states The bible is corrupt, calls the early Christians liars, demonizes the Apostle Paul and calls God a liar.

"as well as purposely and without condemnation feeding your rhetoric into the mindset of Islamophobes and bigots worldwide, without once condemning their bigotry or comments."

Ahh the Islamaphobe accusation. Lets examine that term, Islam - Phobe. Phobia meens to have a irrational fear. Is it irrational for a non muslim to fear islam? Is it irrational for a non arryan to fear Nazi Facism? Is it irrational for a Capitolist to fear Comunism? Is it irrational for a civilized man to fear anarchy?

Islam on any level is something to be feard, even most muslims fear islam. That is how islam keeps its followers as the testimony of Rifq Bary proves. That is why a lot of muslims come to the west, to escape the relegious persecution from there muslim bretheren.

So yes I fear islam. I fear any dogma, or doctrine that wishes to destroy the western way of life. A way of life that allowed you to act the fool, and covert to a relegious\political system that is bigoted, irrational, sadistic, and just plain evil.

Now as far as your accusation of this blog being bigoted. I for one am a bigot when it comes to islam. I for one believe that the western way of life is far superior to the islamic way of life. A fact attested to by all the muslims who flee, yes flee there islamic style countries to live in the west. I'm sorry you failed at that way of life, i'm sorry you could not cope, or comprehend freedom. But just because you are weak mided and weak willed, does not mean the rest of us are.

So I stand with Nakdemon when I say muslims please leave the west. Go and live in a land where your life is closely regulated and monitored becasue you are to weak kneed to live with out supervision. Go to a land where there are regulators in the bathroom to insure you are urinating and defecating the islamic way. because you know that is really important to your God.

Radical Moderate said...

Yahya Hayder Seymour what do I have to do to put you in a bomb belt today? Just make sure you practice before you go boom.

Radical Moderate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nora said...

Yahya,

I find myself being less and less impressed with you as you fling out the term Islamophobe. You might want to consider reducing your name-calling for the sake of your own dignity, if not more so for the sake of your religion.

minoria said...

Well,Ehteshaam is gone for now.So he won't be back for several months.But the situation is bizarre.I would have to look into detail his claim that woman slaves can not be raped.

ABROGATION

But before,he never said yes to my question if he was agaisnt persecution and execution of apostates from Islam anywhere,in Muslim countries and out.Supposedly he considers(as I think most Muslim scholars do) that the "there is no compulsion in religion" verse in the Koran has been ABROGATED.I suppose he does,maybe I am wrong.

He called BASSAM ZAWADI the "boss of bosses".He does know Bassam is in favor of execution of apostates.That is violation of human rights.That means Bassam believes the "no compulsion in religion" verse is abrogated.

ABOUT RAPE

The Koran says a man's WIFE is like his FIELD and he can go to it as he pleases(sura 2:223).A FIELD is your PROPERTY.That verse is interpreted by Muslims to mean he doesn't need her consent.

A FEMALE SLAVE HAS A LOWER POSITION

She is NOT a wife.She is PROPERTY.How is she going to have MORE rights than the wife?

minoria said...

Hello Yahya:

Just read your comments to David.I think you got too emotional.The thing that stuck out the most was your use of the word "Islamophobe."

Islam is just a set of ideas.If one doesn't like some of them then in itself there is nothing wrong.I hope you don't actually buy into the Muslim idea that "Islamophobia is a crime,should be agains't the law."

What is already against the law is muslimophobia,so to speak.It goes under the category of hate crime.

Reading Paul Williams blog it seems,though I am not sure 100%,that he agrees apostates should be killed.Again,judge not and you won't be judged.So until he says it openly,I will only say "it seems".I could be 100% wrong,hope I am.

But he appears to agree that "Islamophobia (critique of Mohammed and Koran) should be punished by the law."I wrote in his blog regarding Islamophobia,muslimophobia,human rights.I was SURE he would agree with me,being an ex-Christian,he certainly thought like that before.

He didn't exactly say he disagreed,nor that he did.

THAT was what surprised me the most.I was REALLY sure he would say "Yes,you are right,the use of the word Islamophobia by the Muslim intellectuals in the West is not correct in the sense that Islam is only a set of ideas.One has the human right of freedom of speech to critique any belief.They should change to a "campaign against MUSLIMOPHOBIA.""

You are an ex-Christian also.You certainly believed BEFORE one had the human right to criticize Christianity,atheism,communism,capitalism,globalization,Islam,etc.

You knew of the GOLDEN RULE:do to others as you...

So if you wanted to be allowed to criticize somebody's taste in MODERN ART,then THEY had the right to criticize your liking of RENAISSANCE ART.The same for religion.Again,I don't know your exact position on execution of apostates or right to critique Islam(Islamophobia) but I hope it's the same as it was when you where a Christian.

Yahya Snow said...

David Wood said...

You complain about comments by Christians more than you complain about rapes and murders committed in the name of Allah! Islam is corrupting you more and more by the day.)


Erm..David, you seem to be getting more unscholarly and distasteful by each comment.
NOBODY is raping in the NAME OF ALLAH. Please do yourself a favour, you are making yourself into a a laughing stock with coments of this nature. Grow up!

Oh,you also (sensationally) claim Islam to be a corrupting influence while you (a Christian) are speaking in an unscholarly, intellectually dishonest and distasteful fashion. Is this a fruit of the "Holy Spirit" which Christians like yourself claim to be residing within them???

If Christianity has improved you then I just wonder the deprave levels you must have sunk to in your pre-Christian days as you do not seem to be the most morally, scholarly and intellectually responsible individual I have crossed paths with.

David, whilst you are re-evaluating yourself please view the link below which will highlight that Islam does NOT allow rape. Thanks.

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2009/07/islam-does-not-allow-rape.html

May allah guide us all and lessen the injustice in this sick world we all SHARE. Ameen.

Yahya Snow said...

David Wood said...

You complain about comments by Christians more than you complain about rapes and murders committed in the name of Allah! Islam is corrupting you more and more by the day.)


Erm..David, you seem to be getting more unscholarly and distasteful by each comment.
NOBODY is raping in the NAME OF ALLAH. Please do yourself a favour, you are making yourself into a a laughing stock with coments of this nature. Grow up!

Oh,you also (sensationally) claim Islam to be a corrupting influence while you (a Christian) are speaking in an unscholarly, intellectually dishonest and distasteful fashion. Is this a fruit of the "Holy Spirit" which Christians like yourself claim to be residing within them???

If Christianity has improved you then I just wonder the deprave levels you must have sunk to in your pre-Christian days as you do not seem to be the most morally, scholarly and intellectually responsible individual I have crossed paths with.

David, whilst you are re-evaluating yourself please view the link below which will give highlight that Islam does NOT allow rape. Thanks.

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2009/07/islam-does-not-allow-rape.html

May allah guide us all and lessen the injustice in this sick world we all SHARE. Ameen.

Yahya Snow said...

David Wood also said

Translation: "Would you please stop pointing out all the atrocities committed by Muslims around the world! When you see Muslims raping, killing, etc., you should do what all good Muslims do--keep quiet about it!"

David, you believe Christians are morally superior to Muslims yet you attribute such vile 'thoughts' to myself. Is this what Jesus would do? NO! So why are you behaving in such a condescending, insincere, dishonest manner? Sad!:(

It must hurt the lay Christians to know that one of their spokesmen for their faith is stooping to such immorality and disrespect.

And, for your information, I do care for everyboby regardless of faith. Allah is on the side of the oppressed. So, if a Christian woman is being abused by Muslims then Allah would be on the side of the Christian lady and not the Muslims, so too will I! (So please apologise for your slander against me)

My advice to you David,have a rethink of the Chrisitanity you involve yourself with because it is affecting you adversely and leaving you wanting in many areas of respect and general decency.

I know you may not like this post but please do accept it (and not censor) as well as reflect upon it. Thanks. I am your brother and I care for you.

May Allah guide all of us to the truth of Islam.

Yahya Snow said...

I hope Christians and Muslims can get along better. We should try to bidge-build as much as possible.

Fernando said...

@ Yahya Seymour...

glad to see you arounde here ounce again in straight... this site was lackin in depth muslim comments... off course I do believe, as you woulde agree, thate some off yours are somehow biased, butt att least you're much more coherent than many other muslim bloggers... ounce again: glad to see you around...

and coulde you tell me iff it's true thate eben iff a muslim had commited a liffe off theft, lyies and illegal sexual intercourses (I coulde nott understood whate kind off them it was being reffered) iff he dies saying the Shaadah he'll go to paradise? I herd, lastte weak, a muslim dawa specialist saying this to a young audience who became very entusiastic aboutt thate... Is this true? Habe you heard off such a thingue? It mighte explainen a lott off things... Thankes...

p.s.: anyone else willing to coment, please feel free to do so... thankes...

Anonymous said...

1- Christians, deep in side their cores, know that Christianity is false, and hence, there is really NOTHING to be concerned about. This is why we even see them justifying HOMOSEXUALITY. The Bible Nabeel is no more than man-made writings. Its followers believe in this firmly, and this is why MUCH OF YOUR PRIESTS ARE PEDOPHILES, AND MUCH OF YOUR MINISTERS ARE FRAUDS. This wouldn't come from true believers, Nabeel.


hahahahahahahahaha for starters christianity isnt false, islam is. after all it's not we who believe one witness account like u. as far as homosexuality is concerned, ur post depicts a perfect lesson from ur fake god allah, who hates vast majority of his creation b/c allah loves only those who love him. so lets think , shall we. why would god in the first place hate his creation? i mean the true god and not allah. there is no person without a sin in this world and thats a fact. our lord jesus said:" may the one who is without a sin cast the first stone!"so... everything is said in this sentence. it's not up to u to judge gays or any1. that's it. ur so wrong abt us christians. our religion is full of love. uncoditional love from our creator. turn- the-other-cheek policy and love ur neigbour as urself has nothing to do with ur perverse ideas abt us and our teachinghs. the greatest teacher the history has seen said: "father forgive them for they don' know what they re doing!" this and only this is a proof that god loves us no matter what we have done. so spear us and dont take his role b/c ur not god so u cannot say who is and who isn't a true believer.

p.s. i want to take this opportunity and say to the brother fernando that he is a great man and a very beautiful person. i read a lot of his posts and i am so happy he found the truth in our lord jesus.

greetings to all

IslamSINS said...

Sad and telling that no one needs to be a "prophet" to predict the Muslim reaction in Pakistan.

Islam is the "religion" of perpetual rage, and mass temper tantrums in the M.E. have been triggered by much less than our focus on Rifqa.

The link to the newspaper now takes us to an article that's been removed. Evidently, Pakistan isn't aware that the civilized part of our planet has the internet. This bell can't be unrung and the violence so inherent to Islam is galvanizing millions of Muslims to apostatize every year.

Note to Ehteshaam Gulam: BWAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!! I see you're descending into the common madness of your mindless Islamic "brother", Osama Abdallah! This is so precious to me, Ehteshaam, because I'm the owner of the YT video, "Osama Abdallah, the Quack", which found you at odds with Osama, who is indeed a quack. You agreed 1000% that he is a "quack", he came in with some veiled threat against you, IF you didn't remove your comments regarding his advanced quackery. Now, you are posting with your nose pressed into his rectum? LOLOLLLLLL!!!!! Yours is the most entertaining peek I've had into the collective lunacy of Muslims in a very long time. You and Abdallah - still the quack you thought he was - have both removed your public skirmish comments, but from my responses to you (which do remain), you get the sense that we were in perfect agreement about Abdallah's terminal ignorance. It's a wonderful example of Muslim strong-arming a "brother" who uses his brain. Abandon all thought because your greatest challenge will haunt the rest of your life: defending a pedophile who had to teach his early companions that it was an act of worship to rape the women of Awtas. That's why "allah" sent down 4.24.

Fernando said...

Ehteshaam siade: «I am headed back to School»... in witch school are you reffering thate does not habe internet? humm... I'm jsute wondering...

Fernando said...

Yahya Snow... ounce gain redirecting to postes where yje impossible is defended? to ashamed to prewsent your arguments here in a clear and directt way? I'm less and less impressed bie your stunts... islam, as it's clear from teh qur'an and the hadiths, DO ALOOW rape and denienig the truth is only a way to say: we love falsity and hate those who love the truth... I hopre, dearly, tahte one day you'll love more the truth than the lyies in which you're living...

Fernando said...

dear Ilena (or Ilena... it was difficult to grasp the first lettere)... thankes for your kind, butt for me undeserved, wordes...

sometimes I get bery sorrow and harmefull withe the lies thate I, habing been myself a muslim, recognize muslims being writting arounde here...

I justt trye to follow the path off Jesus, butt this one is an exigent path than requires an constant humanization off our heart in coherence off His totaly given liffe... nott growing in this path is decreasing... there's no neutral point...

as you saide with an amayzing sintheses: «our religion is full of love uncoditional love from our creator»... yes... Our God nott only loves inlimited and unconditionally (justte expecting us to try to do the same) butt He's, in His most intimous core, LOVE... butt love is nott a paternalistic actitude: its exigent as you well know... tha'ts why I recone some people simply does nott follow Him... they're satisfyeied withe theirs sub-human (because egocentric) nature... islam, on the contray, allows all this realitties...

may God blees you dear Ilena or Ilena...

Adam said...

This kinda Islamic Media twist are very common in Pakistan and India.

eg. "There are more muslim than Catholics" Or Urdu transalted version "Christian Religious Head say There are Muslim than ISAies"


These days the very popular Urdu Press (Urdu Language)is Hijacked by Wahabbis Aka 24 No. Landiayas as called in India.

Wahabbis have also supressed the voice of intellectaul muslims in India.

ubiquitouserendipity said...

here's the link to dr. james white's debate yesterday in australia with abdullah kunde. i didn't know where else to post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PgSD8Civ80

i have just started listening, and my comments would not be AS cogent as most of my Christian brothers and sisters, so i will remain mute,,, for now.

as for the video re: rifqa bary: i have no comments. violence begets violence,,, so again, i must remain mute on this issue, here.

the blessings of peace and love to all who bow the knee to Jesus Christ, our Lord, our G_d, our Savior, and our King.

Yahya Hayder Seymour said...

The Fat Man said Yahya Hayder Seymour what do I have to do to put you in a bomb belt today? Just make sure you practice before you go boom.

Erm, keep ranting...you are possibly one of the least intellectually in tuned losers I have ever come across on the net.

As for the comment on my Dad, he lives in Vietnam. Do come visit one day, I'll make sure my trip coincides and I'll get you a bottle.

As for your comment on me not actually living in the Middle East, go to hell with your assumptions. I lived there, just as Nabeel lived in Scotland.

Now I have a question for you Fat Man,

What would I need to do in order for you to go find yourself a job and contribute to society?

Oum Amir

Your point about repeatedly using the same term in a singular post is indeed duely noted (on a serious note).

As for being less impressed with me, I could honestly say now, I'm not particularly interested in impressing you or anyone else here on this blog.
No offense, but I am a student of comparative religion here, not a performer out to impress.

Radical Moderate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Radical Moderate said...

Yahya Seymour said
“Now I have a question for you Fat Man,

What would I need to do in order for you to go find yourself a job and contribute to society?

I’m actually thinking of starting my own business. Martyrdom Match Makers, I see a definite nitch that needs to be filled. I’m putting together a few packages to meet every Muslims budget. Give me a call when you’re serious about your heavenly future. 1800 Go BOOOM

1. The One Hump Camel Package. This is the most basic, Virgins for only .72 cents, that’s a penny a virgin. We tape road flares and wires to your chest, and then throw you in front of a US military check point or convoy screaming Allah OOOOOOOOOOO Akbar. With any luck your will be enjoying your virgins before your body hits the ground.

2. The Hijabi Hottie Package. This one not only includes the road flares and wires, we also douse you in Martyrdom Musk, the scent of Martyrs. It’s a proprietary blend of the finest feted Camel Urine.

3. The Burka Babe Package. For those that really want to arrive in Allahs Paradise with a bang. This is a step up from the previous packages. In this package we actually use real explosives. However there are no frills, just simple C4, a bomb belt and a detonator. You, I mean Allah supplies the will.

4. The Kiss the Rock of the Kabba goodbye package. This is he Cadillac of packages. It has all the amenities of the Hijjabi Hottie and One Hump Camel packages, but instead of Road Flares we use real explosives. We even shape the C4 into 72 rose peddles, that’s a rose peddle for every one of your virgins. The package also includes Hand Cuff’s, for the steering wheel, and remote detonation, for your everblasting pleasure. We will also supply your funeral, I mean wedding guest with the finest 9 year old Virgin Champagne (non alcoholic of Course) at no extra charge.

Do to the perceived overwhelming demand for the Burka Babe and Kiss the Rock Goodbye package; we are limiting the targets for your funeral pleasure to Sunni or Shia Mosqs depending on your religious fanaticism.

Financing is available. Just make Martyrdom Match Makers the sole beneficiary of your life insurance policy and you will be on your way to heavenly bliss with just the push of a button.

So Yahya which package can I put you down for? I’m guessing you’re a KISS THE ROCK OF THE KABBA GOOD BYE man myself. Thanks for playing and getting on my radar. I was a little bored with Ethshaam 

Yahya Hayder Seymour said...

Fat Man,

Or someone who does not need constant supervision or intense behavior modification to prevent him from doing what he should not be doing would appear as a looser to someone like yourself

The funny thing about that is you stated yourself:

I do apologies It was a little over the top.

Vis-a-vis one of your most redundant statement yet on the history of this blog.

Lastly Fat Man,

take this as a warning, if you bring family into these conversations again, exposing the type of person that you are. I'll get very personal with you. I give you the opportunity to apologise and delete your cheap attack, otherwise things will get heated.

Radical Moderate said...

Yahya Seymour said
"Vis-a-vis one of your most redundant statement yet on the history of this blog."

Well thats the thing, I didnt need allah, the quran, or the hadeeths to tell me those statements were a little to much. I'm serious I had every intention of deleteing tem before you read them. Muslims on the other hand need a fatwa to go to the bathroom. I once heard muslims on paltalk arguing if it was Halal to bargin for a better price. Some one actualy had to find a fatwa on the internet to end the argument.

Now as far as your threat/warning. Looks like I brought out the Islam in you. What are you going to do? Insult my mother, call her a whore? Say she works in a brothel?
I have a question for you actualy, what is it with muslism insulting peoples mothers. I mean really those were fighting words back in the THRID GRADE. But as grown men it just sounds well childish.

Now as far as appologizing I already did. As far as taking down the posts, what would be the point in that since you already read them.

I love internet text terrorist, tough guy tony's, and blog jihadi's. Look if your going to threaten, insult, whatever just be creative when you do it. thats all I ask. I give as good as I get.

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

IslamSins,

(Calm down)

So your the author of the video? Interesting.

I don't want to fight with Osama Abdullah. I am more mature than that. I don't want him to write bad stuff about me on his website. In other words I don't want to end up like Nadir Ahmed (no Christian apologist or Muslim likes him except for me) or David Wood (No Muslims except me likes him). I am the only Muslim in the entire world who can and is willing to put up with both of them.

Think about this SecertGarden, IslamSins or whatever you call yourself-- I have a career to think about. I have school. I have a family and I have friends. These things come first-- and then proving Islam and disproving Christianity comes second. I don't want my family and friends googling me and seeing bad stuff written about me, just like I am sure David Wood doesn't want bad things said about him and his friends and family googling him and seeing that.

Okay now that you insulted the Prophet Of Islam I am going to return the fire (respectfully of course)

The Virgin Mary 12 YEARS OLD when she was married off to Joesph. She 12 years old when she was found impreganted by the Holy Spirit! Therefore according to Modern times God, H.S. and J.C. are all guilty of Pedophilla. Be consistent IslamSins-- God the Father according to you is guilty of Pedophilla. You can see how this badly backfired on you. Even athiest are very disturbed with what God the Father did.

Moreover according to Christians (despite there is no evidence for it) is the God of the O.T. And the O.T. says the same thing:

If you see a pretty woman among the captives and would like her for a wife, then just bring her home and "go in unto her." Later, if you decide you don't like her, you can "let her go." (Deuteronomy 21:11-14)

Oh course J.C. had no problems with the horrors of the O.T. see Matthew 5:17-18.

Read the Quran 4:3, 4:25--- the Quran is explicit on marriage with prisoners of war.

Really man, calm down. There is no need to throw insults at me or my religion.

Thanks
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

I want to be able to get along with the people I speak religion about. I don't want to do any personal attacks or insults to them since its contary to the teachings of the Quran see The Quran 7:199, 22:41, 28:54.

IslamSINS said...

You're off to a poor start, Ehteshaan. If you're not tough enough to endure the slings and arrows of a lunatic like Osamma, you'll never survive a debate circuit. But, you have confirmed the lack of character you seem to be developing (modeling yourself after Nadir, perhaps?), so you can ignore the sanctioned rape, and sling lies at Christ and his mother, but it has no effect on truth (a foreign concept in Islam, I know.

Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri said, "We captured some women from the area of Awtas who were already married, and we disliked having sexual relations with them because they already had husbands. So, we asked the Prophet about this matter, and this Ayah was revealed, 4.24 (Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess). Consequently, we had sexual relations with these women.'' This is the wording collected by At-Tirmidhi An-Nasa'i, Ibn Jarir and Muslim in his Sahih. Allah's statement, (Thus has Allah ordained for you) means, this prohibition was ordained for you by Allah. Therefore, adhere to Allah's Book, do not transgress His set limits, and adhere to His legislation and decrees.

Allah ordains the rape. Muhammad had to guide his companions to go against their consciences, and molest the women of Awtas. Ugly teaching, putrid false messenger.

nma said...

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

The Virgin Mary 12 YEARS OLD when she was married off to Joesph. She 12 years old when she was found impreganted by the Holy Spirit! Therefore according to Modern times God, H.S. and J.C. are all guilty of Pedophilla.

This is stupid and typical muslim polemic. First of all, the Bible does not specify Mary's age. So you assume that she was 12 years old. Second, Mary was not impregnated by sexual means. So there was no pedpohelia involved. Third,in Mohammed's case, he had sex with a little girl and hence he was a pedophile. So please write sense.

Also, The Quran 23:6 allows the believers to have sex with slave women. It does not say the women need to be willing. So indirectly the Quran allows sex with unwilling slave women and having sex with unwilling women is called rape. Marrying them to get double reward (144 virgins?) is another matter altogether.

minoria said...

Regarding the opinions of Ehteshaam,I believed they were answered before,the age of Mary not being really known,taking into consideration important factors as that it's not stated,Joseph's obligation to get a dowry,his extreme poverty which would have made it hard to get one quickly,etc.

Also that when you put in all the details in MOSAIC LAW rape of women captives is forbidden in Mosaic Law.

AGE OF 12

I know one Muslim reader often made reference to the INFANCY GOSPEL OF JAMES,also called GOSPEL OF JAMES,also called PROTOEVANGELIUM OF JAMES(written 150 AD).

LITTLE HISTORICAL VALUE

I have read skeptic scholar JAMES TABOR.He makes reference to it in his "The Jesus Dynasty".He believes Mary became pregnant ut of wedlock.Nowhere does he give credence to that gospel as a source for Mary's age.Only as a possible source for the name of her father,possible,not sure.

VERY OLD

According to J.D.CROSSAN,of the Jesus Seminar,in his "The Historical Jesus",in 1 AD 90% of all people in the Eastern Mediterranean were dead by 45.

WHY 90?

First,no scholar gives that gospel much credence.One reason:written TOO LATE(150 AD).

Another:the author makes TOO MANY mistakes regarding Jewish religious customs.A Jew didn't write it.

A detail in this gospel:it proclaims that Mary had been a virgin all her life.THAT is why it makes JOSEPH be 90 years old.At that age he would have been impotent,due to old age.

The age of Mary at 12 in the gospel is an invention.No scholar knows the real age.

ABOUT THE MENTALITY OF MANY MUSLIMS

That is one thing one learns sooner or later.Once I was more or less debating a Muslim on the Internet about the Israel-Palestine issue.

I said that 500,000 Jews had been INJUSTLY expelled from Muslim countries due to the creation of Israel.People who had nothing to do with it.

I really expected him to say I was right.It was so obvious,a matter of right and wrong.He never did,he commented on other things.It is a world where non-Muslims are worth less.

Radical Moderate said...

nma said...
You forgot to mention 4:24
Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

IslamSins said:

You're off to a poor start, Ehteshaan. If you're not tough enough to endure the slings and arrows of a lunatic like Osamma, you'll never survive a debate circuit. But, you have confirmed the lack of character you seem to be developing (modeling yourself after Nadir, perhaps?), so you can ignore the sanctioned rape, and sling lies at Christ and his mother, but it has no effect on truth (a foreign concept in Islam, I know.

My Response: You still don't get it, I.S. The thing is I am not to sink down to doing personal insults. I am not going to let people like you influnece me to say something stupid and hurtful to others.

I can very easily write bad things about David Wood on my site. I can easily get the dirt on him, put it on my site and jump up and down yelling to both Christians and Muslims "look at my site! Look what I got on David Wood!" But I am not going to do that. It's mean and immature. That's why I got mad when some Muslims were trying to do that. I was trying to protect David Wood's reputation, despite the fact he is a critic of my faith.

Same with Osama Abdullah. I can easily find the dirt about him and write non-sense about him on my site. But I am not going to write trash about him on my site for the pleasure and entertainment of the critics of Islam. You think I am that Stupid? You think I am that dumb? You think I am That low? The thing with Osama is he picked a fight with me despite the fact that I clearly told him before I didn't want to fight him. Therefore I just returned the fire (he was spreading bad stuff about me on this blog a few weeks back). But thats all over now, I don't understand why you brought it up.

Both David and Osama have families. Both of them wouldn't like it if their families found all this non-sense about them on the internet. You should at least think about it, IslamSins. You should at least respect their feelings.

When David Wood started writing bad stuff about Nadir Ahmed--(back in April 2009) I thought it was funny. I even joined in making fun of him. Then I felt bad-- Nadir was my friend and I was letting others bad mouth him over and over. And it worse because instead of stopping it-- I sunk to their level and joined in. That was a wrong and bad move on me.

(but Nadir Ahmed did the same thing on his site to David Wood:

http://www.examinethetruth.com/signs/

You know what I mean-- I don't want to fight with everyone. I don't want to debate with everyone. I don't want to offend anyone.

I think I am a decent and good guy, its just some people make me mad when insulting Islam or Prophet Muhammad (p) therefore sometimes I lose my respect and immediately apologize.

I want to spread and defend the word of Islam-- and yes I made mistakes here and there-- but unlike you I am learning from my mistakes.

Forever yours in Islam
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

Fernando said...

@ Young Ehteshaam Gulam

... for the 1000 time: do you habbe ANY proff thate Mary was 12 years when she conceived Jesus? As I saide 1000 times: one single prooff off thate and I'll become, ounce again, a muslim...

more: God did nott had sexual intercourses with Mary... I know thate fixation on sex is a muhammedism characteristic, butt you habe to obercome thate: The incarnation off the Eternal Word off God did nott ocurred bie a sexual intercourse: whate is more difficult to God: creatting eberything or transforming an "egg" into an "ovulus"? Muhammad, on the other hand, had sexuall intercourse with a 9 years olde baby and thate constictutes a paedophilicus act: here, ther, in China, in Apheganistan, in 200 b.C. in 900 a.C....

Iff you say thate atheist are disturbed by whate the Father did, I ask: witch atheists? butt iff they find whate REALLY happened (nott whate you, and other desinformed muslims, believe thate happened) offensive is justte because they do nott anderstand thate there was no sexual intercourse with Mary...

aboutte Deuteronomy 21:11-14... the textt his explicitt: one had to marry her to habe sexuall intercourse, dear Young Ehteshaam Gulam... more: one had to takke her clothes off "prisioneer" and gibe her cothes off a "loving woman"... no more slaves there, dear Young Ehteshaam Gulam... you mustt readd the text and nott simply do a copy and pastt from ignorant islam sites in the Net... the text you presentted to prove one thing backfired uppon you directedely... more: where in the text is saying "go in unto her"????? This is totally nonsense... sorry Young Ehteshaam Gulam, butt I habe to say: this is utter stupidity or ill-intention, from you and/or from those who taughte you this...

I imaggine you mighte bee speacking off verse 11: «wura ita bassibya eset yupat-toar wuhaaaqta bah wulaqahta luka lu issa»...

the key words are "wuhaaaqta" (feel in love... nott in lust... in these case the word "agbatha", for instance), "luka" (bring), "lu" ("for": nott in the sense off movement, butt off consideration; tis is: in consireration off a future event) and "issa" ("women")... so: the text is quite clear (itt coulkde nott bee more clearer): when you feal in love with a women you may take her in order to become, latter, youre wiffe...

to me is absolutteli disgustting the lenhght some muslims are willing to go to distortte the truth... this is a clear expression off whate is islam's mentalitty

Fernando said...

@ Young Ehteshaam Gulam

aboutte Matthew 5:17-18... Jesus is nott saying He accepts everything thate is expressed in the OT... he's simply saying He had nott comme to overrulle the "LAW OF GOD" (nott the subsequentt oral rulles the jewish people annexed into it...), rather to "gibe her the perfectt realiuzation bie His behaviour off shear love"... the key to read the OT is Jesus: his liffe, words, death and ressurection... there's nott another hermeneutical key to the entire Bible...

where is in this text any expression thate Jesus accepted all thate happened in the OT?

in a more clear way, so thate eben you, Young Ehteshaam Gulam, might understand itt:

# 1: He's only reffering too the LAW OF GOD";

# 2:: He came to bring thate LAW to it's perfectt realization; to express God's own interpretattion off His Law...

so sad thate you, Young Ehteshaam Gulam, are nott eben trying to read the texts and justt follow whate ignorant muslims writte aboutte the Bible... to sad: you seaam a bery inteligent person... you can do better than thate... letts hoppe, tahte eben in this, your words will become a realitty (thate untill now I cannot see: your insistence on Mary being 12; on thate God had sexual intercourse withe her in order to perform the incarnation off the Word; that muhammad dod nott perform a paedophilicus act; thate islam do nott allow rapping women; thate all schoolars accept thate muhhamd existed...): but unlike you :I am learning from my mistakes... lets see thate...

May the Holy trinity helpp you...

Fernando said...

@ Yahya Seymour...

hi Yahya... how are you? on vacations? listen: I nplaced a question here, butt I imagine thate, withe all the comments in this therad, it mighte habe passed un-noticed... could eyou, please, pay attention to it? thankes... I'll place itt here ounce ahgain:

coulde you tell me iff it's true thate eben iff a muslim had commited a liffe off theft, lyies and illegal sexual intercourses (I coulde nott understood whate kind off them it was being reffered) iff he dies saying the Shaadah he'll go to paradise? I herd, lastte weak, a muslim dawa specialist saying this to a young audience who became very entusiastic aboutt thate... Is this true? Habe you heard off such a thingue?

I do imagine you're a well prepared person to gibe me an unswer... thankes...

minoria said...

Hello Ireneus:

I also know about the Muslim enslavement of Europeans.It went on for like 300 years and took at least 1 million people.Those people were enslaved BECAUSE they were NON-MUSLIM.No doubt about it.

As I said before,we have to know our history.So it won't happen again.

DON QUIXOTE

You all know the book by MIGUEL DE CERVANTES (1547-1616)?He was the greatest Spanish writer and one of the greatest of all time.In fact,greater than any writer to so far come out of a Muslim background.

HE was a slave of the Muslims for 5 years,captured by Muslim pirates on his way from Italy to Spain.He was in Algiers,Algeria.He tried to escape 5 times.Finally he was ransomned.It was on the same day he was going to be taken as a slave to Constantinople.Imagine the loss to world culture if he had not been ransomned.

ANOTHER CASE

VINCENT DE PAUL,a famous Catholic saint of the 17th century was also captured and sold.He managed to escape.Only 5% of all Europeans captured ever escaped or were ransomned.

Or in 1683,when the Turks were defeated from taking Vienna.30,000 Europeans beat 100,000 Turks.But on their way back the Turks took 80,000 people as slaves.I am glad they did not capture Western Europe.It would have been very negative.

Or 1525 when Sultan Suleyman was defeated in trying to take Vienna.On the way back he took with him 50,000 as slaves.And the 500,000 children taken from their European parents in 300 years (in the devshirme system)by te Turks.To be forced into Islam and made soldiers.

NEVER OR RARELY

I have read the Muslim literature about the relation between Muslims and Christians in Europe.They never or almost never mention anything negative done by the Muslims.They are teaching their children an incomplete history,a glorified one.Why?

I think they have like an honor mentality,to maintain face no matter what,that is the impression.

IslamSINS said...

"I am not going to let people like you influnece me to say something stupid and hurtful to others".

Meaning "other" Muslims, no matter their lunacy. I understand. The Ummah must present a united front.

You don't mind quoting a moldy accusation against Mary, but woe to you if you speak the truth against a Muslim? That's just precious, Pookie.

I haven't seen a Christian apologist who wimped out because of what might be written about him on a website, but, it's easier to find strength in Christ than concern oneself with rumors used to discredit Christians. You need a mo'better God; try Christ. He lets us - nay, commands us - to use our entire minds.

4.24 sanctions rape as an act of worship for Muslims. No mud you sling re the birth of Christ and Mary will ever change that, Ehteshaan. It is an ugly teaching from an ugly "god", through the lips of an ugly false messenger.

Maraland said...

Hi Ehteshaam Gulam, you seems very reasonable in your observation.

Have you challenged Ali Sina of Faithfreedom.org? Unless you do that your boastful rant here cannot be accepted by anyone. Please debate soon with Ali Sina soon. I'm looking forward to this.

minoria said...

I am glad ALI SINA(ex-Muslim from Iran) of faithfreedom.org is now also in the campaign to save Rifqa's life.He is doing a good deed.He has the video on his website,plus one in favor of Rifqa by PAMELA GELLER(atlasshrugs.com).He is read by maybe hundreds of thousands.We are doing all we can.

I agree Ehteshaam has a point in that we should concentrate less on comments on the person but on the ideas.He shows alot of self-restraint.I know he has been insulted but it has been due to his ideas,not his person,so much.Though it seems he is not 100% for freedom of religion worldwide.I hope he doesn't agree with his friend BASSAM ZAWADI.He has an article in his website:"Of Course Apostates should be Killed."
It would make the founders of human rights organizations turn in their graves.

RAPE IN ISLAM

I read Bassam's article as recommended by Ehteshaam.Bassam pointed to hadiths.He also spoke about SAFIYA.

Then I knew he accepted the story.Using her as an example will only convince those who want to be convinced,Muslims.

SAFIYA

She was a beautiful girl whose HUSBAND,FATHER,MALE RELATIVES and BROTHERS had been killed by the same man.By who? By Mohammed.To actually believe she REALLY wanted to marry him,not 5 or 10 years later,but like 2 days later,to actually have sex with the man who killed her whole male family,and who had sold her female relatives into slavery,is unconvincing.Her sleeping with him was a violation.

KORAN

I had said it says the wife is like a field and the husband can goes to it as he pleases(sura 2:223).A field is a property.SAMI ZAATARI in his website says the Koran is against rape because it says in SURA 4:19 to "treat them(women) with KINDNESS."So since rape is violence then it goes against the Koran.

BUT IN THE SAME SURA 4

Yet a few verses later in 4:34 it says if you fear rebellion from your wife then you ultimately can BEAT her.

CLEAR VERSE/LESS CLEAR

By logic being KIND to a woman in the Koran does not exclude not having the right to BEAT her.It by logic does NOT exclude the right to beat her if she doesn't want to have sex as is your right in sura 2:223.

It is not that I want to argue for arguing but that is the logic of the verses.In the case of the hadiths and commentaries presented by Bassam,it is obvious that the author wanted to prevent evil and abuse.Great for that,but then there would be contradictions.

David Wood said...

Fat Man said: "Oh and thanks for cursing me to hell. My response may Jesus Christ bless you with his love and mercy. But in case I do go to hell may be I will see your wife there. After all Mohamed said the majority of the inhabitants of hell are woman because they disobeyed their husbands. So I won’t be lonely."

Unacceptable, Fat Man. Even though I am absolutely repulsed by the reaction of many Muslims when Islamic atrocities are pointed out to them, mentioning Yahya's wife takes things way, way too far. You can criticize Muhammad's absurd claim that the majority of hell-dwellers are women without going to this level. Please take down the comment.

Radical Moderate said...

Original Comment Deleted. Edited Comment reposted.

Yahya Seymour

I had every intention of deleting the Bomb Belt and Parents comment. I waited a few hours for David to post it, but then I had to run errands all day so I didn’t get back in time to delete it before you read it. I do apologies It was a little over the top.
Yahya Seymour said
“Erm, keep ranting...you are possibly one of the least intellectually in tuned losers I have ever come across on the net.”

I’m sure by your standards I am the least intellectually in tuned losers. I’m sure a grown man who doesn’t have to be told how to go to the bathroom would appear as a looser to you. Or someone who does not need constant supervision or intense behavior modification to prevent him from doing what he should not be doing would appear as a looser to someone like yourself. Let’s face it man, you need to be controlled down to the most basic levels in order to satiate your guilt. That is why Islam appeals to you. Muslims are spiritual submissive, needing to feel and be controlled. Because you are unable to control yourself.

Yahya Seymour said
“As for your comment on me not actually living in the Middle East, go to hell with your assumptions. I lived there, just as Nabeel lived in Scotland.”

I was simply stating that physically living in an area because your dad is in the military or there on business is a far cry from being accepted by that community. Normally it takes years to be establish, marriage, house, kids etc… Just because Nabeel lived in Scotland does not mean he can speak for the Scotts or understand their cultural norms. You were just visiting the Middle East not really living there. Oh and thanks for cursing me to hell. My response may Jesus Christ bless you with his love and mercy.

Radical Moderate said...

I also deleted the comment about Yahya's father. And I appologiese to him after it was posted.

Radical Moderate said...

Fernando said to Young Ethshaam
"more: God did nott had sexual intercourses with Mary... I know thate fixation on sex is a muhammedism characteristic,"

Fernando perhaps you should discuss with the Young Ethshaam the creation of Jesus in the quran.
" And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants)." (Quran 66:12)

The word is farjehah which means "Opening". So Allah breathed into marys farjehah "opening".

Ibn Kathir exlains. "(And We breathed into it (private part) through Our Ruh,) meaning, through the angel Jibril. Allah sent the angel Jibril to Maryam, and he came to her in the shape of a man in every respect. Allah commanded him to blow into a gap of her garment and that breath went into her womb through her private part; this is how `Isa was conceived. This is why Allah said here,"

The Common muslim resposne after they discredit Ibn Kathir is to say that since Farjeheh meens opening, it is Mary's mouth that the Angel gabriel blew into. One small problem. If Ferjeheh only meens opening and can refer to the mouth, then do men have Farheheh's?

Radical Moderate said...

Minoria said
"She was a beautiful girl whose HUSBAND,FATHER,MALE RELATIVES and BROTHERS had been killed by the same man. By who? By Mohammed."

The thing that gets me about this story is how female reverts to Islam ingnore this story. As if killing a woman’s family is part of the Islamic courtship ritual.

Some Muslims justify it by saying that Mohamed was just following Jewish tradition and the law of the torah. Let’s examine the Torah to see if Mohamed was actually following it.

“When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.” (Deut 21:10-13)

So did Mohamed follow the Jewish law and traditions? Did he shave her head? Did he trim her nails? Did he put aside the clothes she was wearing and allowed her to morn her father and mother for a full month? The answer to all of these questions is NO. Also notice that after you complete all these things the text says that you will “be her husband and she shall be your wife”. Nothing about Right hand posses and nothing like in Surah 4:24 “Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:””

So again I ask the question did Mohamed follow the laws of the Torah in regards to marrying captive woman? Does the Quran even follow the Torah in regards to having sex with married captive woman? The answer to these questions is a resounding NO.

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

I don't care about Ali Sina. Talking to him and his cheerleaders is like talking to a wall-- it's pointless.

At least the people here believe in God--- he believes in Ali Sinaism (the belief that he is God and people should follow him and what he says about Islam).

I would much rather speak to the readers here than the losers at faithfreedom.org. At least the readers here are more scholarly, smarter and respectful.

Thanks,
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

Traeh said...

Reports from people in her school are coming out that the girl was beaten and periodically came in all bruised up, and nothing was done about it at the school. These reports may be wrong, and no one should jump the gun and treat them as fact yet, but the facts will probably come out soon, if she was indeed bruised and beaten by her father. According to one report, the father hauled off and socked her when, after he would make her wear a hijab, she would slump down ashamed in her car seat. According to the report, which should not yet be considered fact, this angered the father greatly, and he would haul off and sock her to get her to sit up straight in the car while wearing the hijab. If he did do this, it would seem to be in accord with the Qur'an verse (Chapter 4, verse 34) telling Muslims to beat disobedient women.

Traeh said...

Ehteshaam Gulam, what do you think of the sahih hadiths where Muhammad says "If someone changes his Islamic religion, then kill him." That idea, verbalized in various ways, seems to be repeated in many places in Islamic doctrine. Apparently that is why all the schools of Islamic law call for the death penalty for sane, adult male apostates from Islam. Most of the schools of Islamic law call also for the death penalty for adult female apostates. The school that does not call for death for females, does call for imprisonment.

I don't understand how someone with any real feeling for human individual freedom could want to be part of a religion with so many totalitarian threads. Isn't it true that, while people who call themselves Christians may do totalitarian actions, Christians cannot justify those actions by reference to the words or acts of Jesus as represented in the Bible. But Muslims can justify totalitarian actions by referring to the example of Muhammad in Medina.

Perhaps you have answered all these questions somewhere to your own satisfaction. But I ask because I have never seen what seem to me good answers.

It seems to me that whatever Jesus really was, his portrayal in the Bible presents him as an extremely loving person, loving above all. Whatever Muhammad really was, he is portrayed in Islamic core texts as a very successful theocrat and soldier, whose chief message was not love, but rather compulsory obedience to an extremely detailed set of supposedly divine rules for living, and heaven help you if you as an individual have thoughts of your own that don't agree with Islam, and you dare to act on those thoughts. Islamic law, embodied either in avowedly Islamic states, or as an often domineering part of the ethos of Muslim-majority nations, will tend to crush and trample the dissident. There seems so little place for the individual in Islam.

True, so-called Christians have often repressed the individual, but this was not in accord with the example and words of Jesus as portrayed in the Bible. Repression is in accord with many of the words and acts of Muhammad. And because repression is not in accord with Jesus, such repression, in Christendom, always tended to show cracks and openings here and there, now and then, where sprouts of freedom could keep shooting up and, sometimes, taking root. Surely God, whatever God may be, and the spiritual world, those hierarchies of spiritual beings who are evolutionary (as opposed to the spiritual beings who seek fixity on the one hand or hyper-revolutionary change on the other), desire freedom for human beings so that they can develop and learn more and more to mirror the spiritual world through ever growing love and knowledge, wisdom, and beauty. Development and spiritual evolution cannot happen without individual freedom. Islamic doctrine and Muhammad's example too often suppress freedom, and therefore surely reject the will of the spiritual world, except for the will of spiritual beings there who are hyper-revolutionary or hyper-conservative.

nma said...

Ehteshaam Gulam,

You have not provided a good explanation for why Mohammed didn't stole from the Bible. You have provided two links but those links do not prove that Mohammed did not learn the Bible from other Christians and Jews who lived around him. Assuming he was an illiterate, he learned by hearing and stole ideas and stories but twisted them a lot. The links you provided try to conceal the whole truth with some elements of partial truth and the contents of those links are just typical attempts to conceal the truth by the defenders of the Islamic faith.

minoria said...

Hello Ed:

Thanks for the information that kids in her school are speaking out about the violent character of her "father".She needs all the help she can get.No help from her brother.If MY sister where in that position I would speak up.He's 18,he has no reaso to fear being forced to live in the family house.

Pray for her.I have given info about her to others.Maybe they can help.

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

Nma,

I already posted the Islamic-awareness.org links. Since you didn't read them, read them now:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/BBbible.html

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/BBdefense.html

These are extremely well done responses to this years old polemic. Even Bassam Zawadi (the Boss of all Islamic apologists along with Nadir Ahmed) recommends these links.

As for Jesus being all loving and merciful-- not true. Jesus had a lot of harsh and violent statements:

Jesus says he has not come to spread peace, but rather a sword (violence):

He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10:34

Jesus explains why he speaks in parables to confuse people so they will go to hell. Mark 4:11-12

Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching. Matthew 11:20

These are just some of the verses in the New Testament that bother me. My point is not to be offensive my Christian friends, rather my point is when you make statements like "Jesus Christ is all loving, peaceful, etc" you better be ready to prove it-- and you better be ready to defend verses from the N.T. that contradict it.

Forever yours in Islam,
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

Fernando said...

@ Yahya Seymour...

hi Yahya... how are you? on vacations? listen: I nplaced a question here, butt I imagine thate, withe all the comments in this therad, it mighte habe passed un-noticed... could eyou, please, pay attention to it? thankes... I'll place itt here ounce ahgain:

coulde you tell me iff it's true thate eben iff a muslim had commited a liffe off theft, lyies and illegal sexual intercourses (I coulde nott understood whate kind off them it was being reffered) iff he dies saying the Shaadah he'll go to paradise? I herd, lastte weak, a muslim dawa specialist saying this to a young audience who became very entusiastic aboutt thate... Is this true? Habe you heard off such a thingue?

I do imagine you're a well prepared person to gibe me an unswer... thankes...

Fernando said...

@ Young Ehteshaam Gulam said...

so: Bassam Zawadi is as great debater and apologist as Nadir Ahmed... ok, now we learnn something more from you... you're ironic or else you habe some other problem thate I'll rephrainn to say here in public...

Your saide thate talking to Ali Sina is like "talking to a wall"... preciselly whate we all arounde here feel aboutte you: you do nott eben try to reformulate youir arguments and do noot eben try to present another ones, you simply say teh same old lyies ober and ober again in order to promotte yourself and your internet site... and the listte off these lyies are justt mounting

lets see withe more three examples (and bye the way: thse examples do nott offend us Christians... trhey justt testiffy how ignorantte can be some peole, nothing more...):

about Matthew 10:34... Jesus is justt saying thate those who'll follow is pathe off love and truth will bee persecuted by those who do nott accept love and truth... justte like is happening withe Rifqa Bary (thankes Young Ehteshaam Gulam for this opportunnity to show how truthe are the wordes off Jesus): eben the parents off someone who decides to folow Jesus's pathe will hatte him/her and wantt, in several ways and manner, to "kill" her... as you know, dear Young Ehteshaam Gulam, the sword in the Bible is nott only an instrument off killing, butt off separation and discerniment (Hb 4:12)...

about Mark 4:11-12... as you know, Jesus is quotting Is. 6:9-10... Jesus uses parapbles in order to imply the listtener in the task off decifring whate He sayd... iff He spoke absolutely clear (as iff the message off the Kingdom was a mathematical one...) the person woulde bee only a passive listenner... Jesus do nott wantte thate: he wantts the listenner to makke the efford off deciphring His words, and, doing so, implying and questioning himself... butt many will reffuse to do so: so, the wordes off Jesus are nott directed uppoon those who do nott understand, rather onn those who do understand and do nott wantte to change theire lives...

more: Jesus is NOTT SAYING HE WANTS THOSE THINGUES TO HAPPEN, rather He's makking a statement off evidence: THERE WILL BEE PERSONS WHO WILL NOTT WANTTE TO CHANGE THEIRE LIVES... teh difference, is enourmous dear Young Ehteshaam Gulam: it's likke a parent saying too his children: I want you to leran thate iff you putt your fingers in the power plugs you'll suffer or eben dyie... this parent is nott saying he wants the kid too putt the fingers in the power plug, rather he's saying an evidence: those who putt the fingers ther do suffer... this is preciselly the meaning off the words off Is 6:9-10: do read carefullçy this verses in theire context (Is 6:1-13)...

(will continue)

Fernando said...

(continuation)

about Matthew 11:20... here is stated thete Jesus is ordering entire cities to "dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell"? Ounce again: iff these things will happen is due to the choose off those cityes... oure lives here, on earth, habe consequences in the after-liffe: thies one is a prolongation off whate we do: whate we do makes a cristalization off our person and this cristalization will decide whatte will bee our lifes after death... Jesus is ONLY saying thate God will bee more mercyfull ("be more bearable") to the persons who lived in Sodom thane to those who saw his deads and did nott want to follow him... Jesus is nott saying thate God will nott bee mercifull (He always is), rather placing an comparative: God will be more mercifull to these than to the others (butt withoute being mercifull to these...)

More: Jesus does nott say thate hell will come upon those persons (as this woulde bee a simple decition off God); rather than those persons will go to hell: the realitty off entering upon hell is nott upon an meare action off God, rather upoon a free decition off men tahte God will ractify and/or accept... Jesus, remember, is quotting Is 14:13-15 and the verbes in this text are in the active tense... dear Young Ehteshaam Gulam: are the decisions off men in these liffe thate determine wahte will bee theire liffe after dead... our liffe as consequences!!!

the words off Jesus, dear Young Ehteshaam Gulam, are uppon you! Make your way: choose your pathe and bear the consequences...

so dear Young Ehteshaam Gulam whate more texts to you wantt me to explain? I'm righte her... let's keep them coming... Iff you do nott agree withe the exegesis off the texts I made, justt make your arguments... iff you do nott, you know whate is saide: silence is the prooff off agrement...

Fernando said...

@ Brother The Fat Man...

good point aboth Mary's farheheh...

I do beliebe thate muslim men habe farhehehs all the time in their mind... muhammedism, as muhammad, was, is absolutelly obcecated with sex: Young Ehteshaam Gulam and The Osama The Great Abdallah are justte an example off these...

minoria said...

Hello Fernando:

I read your comment in the other section about Ehteshaam.There is an element of truth in the sense that he is given reasonable answers to at least some of his objections and he repeats his beginning position as if he had not been given them.

JESUS CAME TO BRING SWORD

Jesus HIMSELF in the next sentence takes the trouble to tell his listeners he is talking METAPHORICALLY.Ehteshaam, the text gives its own commentary.What more do you want than words from Jesus himself that he is not talking about a literal sword?

And Fernando made a good point about RIFQA BARY.

A MAN EQUAL TO GOD IN THE OT?

ZECHARIAH 13:7 (in Young's Literal translation)says:

" Sword, awake against My shepherd, And against a hero -- My FELLOW, An affirmation of Jehovah of Hosts. Smite the shepherd, and scattered is the flock, And I have put back My hand on the little ones."

MY FELLOW

The Hebrew word translated as "fellow" in the original tongue means the EQUAL of somebody due to position,like economic power,social prestige,etc.In essence it means EQUALITY in one aspect or another.

SO?

So in the passage it is God who is speaking it.He is telling us a man is EQUAL to him in some way.But that is impossible,in what way?

Power?No.Wisdom?No.Glory?No.

Greatness?No.Eternality?No.Intelligence?No.Goodness?No.

Jesus in the gospels applies ZECHARIAH 13:7 to himself on the night he was betrayed.

SALVATION

Ehteshaam brought up a good point about hell and the majority.I have thought about it.First,it is not 100% clear if the fire in the NT is to be literal or metaphorical.A careful analysis supports a metaphorical fire.Again,not 100% sure on that,but it is a darn high possibility.

ALL CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN

Jesus himself said it in a statement.Now CROSSAN in his "The historical Jesus" says 66% of all people in the Eastern Roman Empire died by 16.That is 2 out of 3.

SO?

From the evidence it seems MOST people till before a few centuries ago (I think till 200 years ago)died as CHILDREN.Most never heard of Jesus,but they are in heaven.

RAPTURE

This doctrine says all Christians will disappear before the bad period known as the Tribulation.But it ALSO says all innocent people(those who do not yet know right from wrong:children and mentally retarded) will ALSO be taken to heaven.

HOW MANY?

That would be about 600 million Christians out of 7 billion people.Plus all the children.I think 50% of the world population are children,so about 60% of the world will disappear,or more than 4 billion.

THEN MANY WILL BELIEVE

Of the remanining 3 billion,THEN many will finally become convinced and get saved also.How may?I do not know,I guess 1 billion.

Sepher Shalom said...

Ehteshaam,

We've already discussed Matt 10:34. It's really disappointing to still see you abusing this verse as some sort of "violent verse" all these months later. In brief, since I don't have the time or patients to restate it all right now; The function of a sword is to divide things. The Gospel of Yeshua divides. If you want proof that the Gospel does actually divide, just look to people who have converted away from Islam to the true Gospel. Many of them have families that refuse to see them or even speak with them. Open your eyes and read the context Ehteshaam!! You are a smart enough guy, just use that noggin' of yours, please.

As Nakdimon recently mentioned, there is a noticeable change in your comments and arguments lately [and I don't mean a positive change, sadly].

This is coming from someone that cares about you man! Even if you only get one thing sorted out, please get a handle on Matt 10:34. Start with that one little step. Maybe think of it as a favor for me.

nma said...

Ehteshaam Gulam,

You assume that I haven't read those articles but I have read and reread them. They are not convincing enough to establish that there were no Christians around Mohammed and he did not learn from them (maybe not in a systematic way). Besides, Mohammed did some business travels during which he picked up pieces of the Biblical contents. For example, Mohammed met many Christians and Jews in Syria.

You said:He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10:34

Looks like you have got this verse from the internet. Read the whole paragraph without bias and you will understand what it means. It is about the division among people and families when people becomes followers of Jesus.

The overall tone of new testament is love whereas the overall tone of the Quran is fear and bribery (wine and houris). If you take verses out of contest, the situation is different.

minoria said...

Hello NMA:

I will like to put my 2 cents,again.The advantage of reading and rereading notes is that often you see connections all of a sudden.I haven't read any of the articles suggested by Ehteshaam about if Mohammed got his info from Christians and Jews.

GO TO THE KORAN

Rereading my notes I noticed that the Koran has alot to say about Abraham,Moses,Noah,Joseph,Jesus,Mary,heaven,hell,resurrection.

SO?

5X pagan Arabs in the Koran tell him HE(Mohammed) is telling them "tales of the ancients",they had heard before:

SURAS 8:31/23:83/25:4-6/6:25/68:10-16.

SO?

So THEY were familiar with stories about Abraham,Moses,Jesus,resurrection of the dead,etc.It was in the air.Also:

1.There were Christians and Jews in Arabia.
2.Many pagan Arabs traveled up north to trade.Over the centuries they had picked up knowledge of those stories.They had told others to kill time.

It's obvious Mohammed shared a general knowledge others knew also.In fact in SURA 16:103 they even say that somebody was teaching Mohammed.

MATT 7:13-14

Jesus in the gospels says that you have to become like a child to enter heaven and that heaven was full of children.

All children go to heaven.And most people born till about 200 years ago died as children.But when you get past childhood,THEN you are accountable.

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY?

That MATT 7:13-14 only applies to those who are no longer children.It is not IN ITSELF saying MOST people born will go to
hell.

In fact due to abortion a large number are going to heaven without even being born:35 million abortions in the US so far,40% of all pregnancies in Cuba end in abortion,1 million in India every year,millions in Europe so far.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Gulam wrote:

I don't care about Ali Sina. Talking to him and his cheerleaders is like talking to a wall-- it's pointless.

At least the people here believe in God--- he believes in Ali Sinaism (the belief that he is God and people should follow him and what he says about Islam).

I would much rather speak to the readers here than the losers at faithfreedom.org. At least the readers here are more scholarly, smarter and respectful.

Thanks,
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

Elijah replies:

How can you call the ateists on freedoom.org loosers when you frequently quote atheist scholarship as if it is a fact?

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

Hogan said:

How can you call the ateists on freedoom.org loosers when you frequently quote atheist scholarship as if it is a fact?

My Response: There is a HUGE difference between the atheist scholars at Infidels.org like Richard Carrier and the hatemongers at faithfreedom.org.

Moreover I quote the best scholarship possible (Richard Carrier) and not sloppy polemics (Ali Sina)

Thanks,
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

ubiquitouserendipity said...

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

deleted text...

My Response: There is a HUGE difference between the atheist scholars at Infidels.org like Richard Carrier and the hatemongers at faithfreedom.org.

deleted text...

Thanks,
Ehteshaam Gulam

ubiquitouserendipity says:
back in the day we used to call that "selling wolf tickets." bark, no bite. remember ehteshaam gullam, as has been pointed out by another brother, you can't run with the big dogs when you pee like a puppy. quit whining and get busy.

ali sina wants to purchase your wolf tickets, mr. big barker-ehteshaam gulam. mr. ali sina has presented a challenge, of either $50,000.oo or $100,000.oo. it started at $50.000 in '01, but has been increased to encourage laymen to convince a mohammedan "scholar" to debate mr. sina.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm

do us all a favor: make yourself famous, rich, and powerful, by defending islam and proving any single one of mr. ali sina's twelve accusations against mohammed false. it's only been eight years that the challenge has stood. hey, why not be the first one on your block to not have your kid come home in a box (it's a country joe and the fish aside, don't get twisted).

you come here and spew your vomitus, are soon answered coherently, cogently, and continuously, and return and spew the same, as if repeating it LOUDER makes it suddenly true. quit coming here and making yourself and your belief set look worse (puppies pee in their bedding and food, big dogs don't). be a man. go get some learnin', and try to develop an ethical base from which you operate, and which those who interact with you can rely on to be consistent.

ehteshaam gullam, you are not effective, just tiresome.

may Hashem Adonai, He Who abides in unapproachable light, the One True and Living G_d, Who has revealed His Self in His Messiah, Jesus the Christ, and Who is revealed to man by the Holy Spirit of G_d, bring you to a loving relationship with His Son. and may you be humbled by the acceptance of your absolute need for a Savior to be able to stand in the Presence of G_d.

if not dear ehteshaam gullam, eternity is a long phreakin' time to be wrong. percolate on that.

Peace, in His love, papajoe

Unknown said...

knock on wood.killing of apastates commanded in bible by god or if your christian jesus in book of deaut. 13;6-9 ,as well as killing disobedient children in book of m.t 15;4-7.rape also commanded by god or jesus in numbers 31;17-18 that include babies of 3 years old and one day christian perverts have to pleasure themseles for one more day a test of patience from god or jesus if you will.america and europe have the highest rates murder ,rape ,pediphelia,incest homosexuality.pornagraphy.NEKCOPHILIA.BEATIALITY.AND SPOUSAL MURDERS PROSTITUTION OF ANY COUNTRY ON EARTH while muslims are not perfect islam is. christians are not perfect and christianty is not perfect as reflected in the acts of spiritual separation as sited above dispelling the christian myth of a spiritual understanding and connection to god .NOTE ALL THAT I HAVE SITED WAS BIBLICLY COMMANDED BY GOD OR JESUS HIMSELF DEPENDING ON THE DEPTH OF YOUR LOSS .KNOCKING ON WOOD I WONDER IF HE HEARS ME. PEACE

minoria said...

Commenting on the comment by CRYSTAL.

People here have given answers to your objections.But I am sure you will never be convinced.That is ok,it is part of freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

I understand then that you are AGAINST killing apostates(and believe me,NO Christian is in favor of it).

And that you are also in FAVOR of any Muslim,anywhere to leave Islam and not be persecuted and to have the right to convert others to another religion.

That is your position then.Can you confirm it is so?That is what I think you are saying,that you agree with us on THAT.

CosmicBoy said...

Islam was build on hoaxes dan lies!