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yeah this is why my cousins went to Afganistan. I love the wardens comment. "To leave your husaband is a crime, this is a islamic cournty"You know from the video it looks like the safest and healthest place to be in afganistan for a woman and her children is behind bars in this prison.
David,Do you accept my debate proposal?
Islam - the great liberator of women
Nabeel Qureshi said... Islam - the great liberator of womenYes Nabeel and we are the infidels, the barbarians, the Kaffir.
Ehteshaam, really?!?! How so?????????? Seriously, I want to know. Let's have some facts and evidence.
Ehteshaam Gulam said... "Christianity is a million times worse to women, my man."Wow, the video first dicusses a law scheduled to pass making it a crime for woman to refuse sex with her husbands, and making it legal for the husband to starv her into submission. The Video then shows a womans prison in Afganistan were a third of the inmates are there for fleeing their abusive husbands. One woman a 25 year old fled her 50pluss husband becasue she refused to be sold into prostitution.Then the warden is asked how he justifies keeping these woman behind bars. His response "In afganistan it is ilegal for a wife to leave her husband, this is a islamic country"All this and Esthshaam says that Christianity is a million times worse. I know I said i would lay off the young Ethshaam but I'm seriously wondering if something is horabily wrong with this young man. Did he suffer from what ever he suffers from before he came to islam, or did islma turn his mind, soul and concious to mush.
I looking forward to Mr Gulam's claim that Christian women have it a million times worse! LOL
Saying Afghanistan is an Islamic country is just about as fair as saying Israel is a Judaic country or the US a Christian country.Isn't it a tad silly to jump on a comment like that and run with it?
Musa ibn Maimun said: Saying Afghanistan is an Islamic country is just about as fair as saying Israel is a Judaic country or the US a Christian country»...how is thate so?#1: are the percentage off jews in Israel and off Christians in the USA equivalent to the percentage off muslims inn Apeganistan?#2: are the governing laws in Israel and in the USA based onn religious beliebes as they are inn Apheganistan?#3: and soo, are people in the USA and in Israel being convicted for crimes based onn religious beliebes?so, Musa ibn Maimun (anything too do withe the famous jewish pgilosopher withe the same name?... I wonder...), it's us thate, without further explanationn from you habe to say: «Isn't it a tad silly to jump on a comment like that and run with it?»
@ Mike...glade to see you arounde hear... firste time around I guess...you asked to Young Ehteshaam Gulam: How so??????????»...we arounde here are allready seeing a pattern on Young Ehteshaam Gulam... he does nott interact woth other bloggers... he justte comes here, spits some wordes thate diverte the attention from the original theme off the thread (allways saying thate Christianity is worst than muhammedism), and runs away... do not, my friende Mike, expect an unswer...Young Ehteshaam Gulam is only someone who wanttes to habe a libing on doing debattes and so comes arounde here to promote himself... he made, at first, himselff look like an ethical person, butt as shifted, more and more, to the pathological path off The Osama The Great Abdallah... to sad to see thate, butt true...dear Mike: do continue to post yor comments arounde here... they'll bee always wellcome...
@ Professor David Woodyes I'm also absoluttely shoked withe the factt MSNBC (a subsidiary off the greatt channel NBC?...) is posting thingues like this... how coulde thate happen? islaphobic propaganda I recon... they eben put thate book "Les Miserables" onn the hands off thate women in order to dramatize the situation... no where in the worls women are better treated than in Apheganistan... they can eben choose to starve to dead for nott accepting the disgusting muhammedims sexual habbits off theire husbands... in other countries, like in Israel and the USA, they'de bee imedieatelly putt to death... we all know thate...
Saying Afghanistan is an Islamic country is just about as fair as saying Israel is a Judaic country or the US a Christian country.Absolutely NOT! Where as America DOES NOT look to the Bible and tries to implement laws that best reflect it, which is the same that we can say about Israel, Afghanistan DOES! It’s goal is to get as closely to Islamic law as possible. And thus it can be described as Islamic. Don’t try to get hide behind this straw man argument.Nakdimon
Christianity is a million times worse to women, my man. Somebody lock this Muzzie up for saying this!
I think Ehteshaam was certainly not being serious.He knows the situation as it is.All the other religions have outlawed polygamy,even Hinduism and Judaism,so in that sense all the other religions treat women better than Islam.
Friends, Sorry I meant to post some evidences for my statement-- then I published.As for Fernado's comments-- Fernado leave me alone. I tried speaking to you-- I give up. Your feelings keep getting in the way when speaking about religion. This further supports my views that Christians see through the eyes of emotion, not logic or common sense. As for me being young-- Nabeel is 26 years old. He's young. Farhan is 25 years old. He's young. Sami Zattari is 22 years old. He's young. You can see that there are a lot of young apologists out there-- I am not that the only one. I am coming here to have a meaningful discussion about religion--not promote myself. Get your facts straight. As for my evidences-- No offense to Christians-- but the Bible is (at least to me) a very sexist book. In the Bible Women are devalued, their viewed as property, the ten commandments says that thou shall not covet thy neighbors property or his wife-- his wife implying the wife is the property of the husband. Women according to the Bible are something to be accessed and controlled. Of course it only gets worse with Christianity. There is God the Father, he gets a young girl pregarant, she had a son, Jesus had male disciples, etc. When the N.T. says Women should be silent in Church they should just learn from their husbands (see 1 Timothy 2:11-12-- also see 1 Cor 14:34-35.), and when Paul says women were created for men (see 1 Cor 11:7-9), etc these are direct biblical teachings putting women down. Islam on the other hand states that women and men are equal see Quran 2:228 4:1, 7:189, 9:71 16:72. Forever yours in IslamEhteshaam Gulam http://www.answering-christian-claims.com
Either:a. Ehteshaam has totally lost touch with reality.b. He meant something along the lines of "since Islam is true and Christianity is false, the eternal consequences of Christianity are a million times worse for women (as well as men)".c. He means something other than b and he's actually still making some sense, even though I totally fail to see it.My guess would be the option b.
i check this blog from time to time and this time i just simply could not help myself from posting this:Ehteshaam Gulam , how in the world can you say that women are treated 1 million time worse in christianity than in islam? im so so so eager to read what you have to say about this, bringing references and facts...Gulam, why do you try to make false accusations just to protect islam, which many times even to you seems looks to be not a religion from God. Do you realize that you bet your life and your eternity on a religion which prophet was Mohammad...When i read different books, i always check the authors and try to find out as much as i can about their lives. When i checked Mohammad's life, not from western sources but from ahadith and tafsir and "the life of mohammad", it just made me sad thinking that more than 1 billion people in this world think of him as a SINLESS prophet from God...it's simply sad...
"Young Ehteshaam Gulam is only someone who wanttes to habe a libing on doing debattes and so comes arounde here to promote himself... he made, at first, himselff look like an ethical person, butt as shifted, more and more, to the pathological path off The Osama The Great Abdallah... to sad to see thate, butt true..." My dear Super Fernando, I've been noticing that you kept bringing me up in much of your posts, even when I had not participated in the thread. Do you want me to send you a personal picture of myself to frame so that you can see me 24/7? May I suggest that you put it right on top of the TV? :-) I'll send you the frame with it as well. What inscription do you want to be carved on it? Osama Abdallahwww.answering-christianity.com
All, To be fair, we have to differentiate between abusive husbands, in general, and Islam. HERE IN THE WEST, if there were no laws against domestic battery and violence, then we would see ALOT OF ABSUE AGAINST WOMEN AS WELL. Now as to the video of this thread, I've watched it, and here are my comments regarding it: 1- Afghanistan is one of the world's poorest countries. 2- The point about one Afghan woman dies from giving birth every 27 minutes has nothing to do with Islam. 3- The prison that contained the women who were charged with either adultery or leaving their homes, there are my comments about them: i- The women who claim to had been raped, as they claim, might not have gotten raped. Her escape from an abusive husband does not justify sleeping with another man. The impression I got from the narrator is that they blame the illegal sex on the bad marriage. IF THIS IS THE CASE, THEN THE WOMAN IS A WHORE, and the West would love to welcome her very well. If the woman, however, was truly raped, then the government is obviously evil, because the punishment for rape, in Islam, is death. I don't see why she should get locked up for it. THE EVIDENCE NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL CASES. 4- The Glorious Quran clearly prohibits abusing the wives: "...Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them...(The Noble Quran, 2:231)" "If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:128)" "And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect. (The Noble Quran, 30:21)" Do you honestly see the Noble Quran condoning cruelty against women in these Noble Verses? Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/view_of_women.htm for more details and proofs. Osama Abdallahwww.answering-christianity.com
Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)" A man can't just go beating his wife around for any reason, in Islam.
Hello Moses Maimonides-Musa ibn Maimun:I was thinking about Ehteshaam's comment more.I agree alot of the negative stuff in Afghanistan is due to a backward culture,tribal.PERMISSION TO HITBut the Koran itself says a husband can BEAT/HIT his wife in SURA 4:34.If Afghanistan were HINDU or BUDDHIST nobody would agree to that.Have you ever met a Hindu or Buddhist who would say it is divinely sanctioned to beat/hit your wife?GOOD VERSESSURA 4:19 says to "treat them with kindness" and SURA 30:21 says "he has established among you esteem and goodness".It refers to relationship with women.Yet that "kindness,esteem and goodness" still does NOT exclude,as I argued before,the right to BEAT/HIT a wife.So in that sense Islam is inferior to Hindusim and Buddhism.
Ehteshaam,I am also seeing a pattern with you. Just because you want something to be true does not make it so....LOOK at the factsLISTEN to reasonINVESTIGATE both sidesPRESENT real argumentsRoger SharpConfident Christianity Apologetics
Osama said: "A man can't just go beating his wife around for any reason, in Islam."Osama, please explain to us all why a man should EVER beat his wife?I'm sorry, but when I sit and write a list of things a man should never ever do for any reason, "Beat his wife" would definitely be on the list.
Osama said: "If the woman, however, was truly raped, then the government is obviously evil, because the punishment for rape, in Islam, is death. I don't see why she should get locked up for it."Perhaps the Islamic requirement for a certain number of eye witnesses to the rape has something to do with this.
Thank you Ethshaam the OLD, for elaborating on your accusations. Let’s start by examining your first accusation, that a wife is nothing more then property. “"You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor's house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." (Deut 5:21)“17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." (Exodus 20:17)So in both instances the commandment is not to covet. Lets examine the definition of covet, because I’m not sure you know what that means.Dictionary.com says that to covet is to “to desire wrongfully, inordinately, or without due regard for the rights of others.” Another definition says that to covet is “to have an inordinate or wrongful desire.”Now a husband has the right to desire his wife, and a wife has right to desire her husband. No one else has these rights over each other, and to covet is to desire something that is not yours something you have no right to desire. To covet is wrong.Now lets look at what the Quran says about a mans wife. Surah 2:223 says “Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will”Now let’s go to dictionary.com and find relevant definitions for TILTH.“the physical condition of soil in relation to plant growth.” And “land that is tilled or cultivated.” So in both definitions we see that a tilth is just a piece of land, soil, in actually just plane old DIRT. So in Islam a man's wife is just a piece of top soil. That piece of dirt is actually dirtier then dirt. The quran also says that if you come in contact with a woman and there is no water for abolition you are to use clean dirt or sand to clean yourselves with. Now isn’t that special.Also the commandment not to covet another mans wife, is something your prophet just could not seem to do. Please read the story of zaynab bint jahsh wife of Zayed. I will answer your other absurdities shortly. My favorite is that Woman have equal rights in Islam
Now Ethshaam the Old, lets discuss your false claim that men and woman are equal in the Quran.A woman inherits less then a man Surah 4:11: “Allah commands you concerning your children as follows: the share of a male is as much as the share of two females:”If men and women are equal then why do women get half that of a male in matters of inheritance?A woman’s testimony is half that of a man. Surah 2:282: “Procure two witnesses from among your men; and if two men be not available, then one man and two women, of such as you like as witnesses, so that if either of the two women should be in danger of forgetting, the other may refresh her memory.” The reason why you need two women as witnesses is because women do not have the same mental faculties as men. They forget. So you still want to stand by your claim that men and women are equal in Islam?Also let’s not forget that a Man can have 4 wives. If men and women are equal then why can’t a woman have 4 husbands? If men and woman are really equal then why can’t a woman marry a non believer like men can?Ethshaam that sound you hear is...“And the walls come tumbling down and the walls come rumbling tumbling” John Cougar Melencamp.
Now Ethshaam the Old, for your absurd, and obscene accusation that “There is God the Father, he gets a young girl pregarant, she had a son, Jesus had male disciples, etc.”Others in this blog that are smarter and wiser then I, have already addressed you on the Islamic fallacy that Christians believe that the Father had sex with Mary to produce Jesus. I even showed you in another post that it is the Quran and Islamic doctrine that Allah sent the “angel Gabriel In the form of a man in ever respect”. To impregnate Mary by blowing into her Vagina (Ferjeheh). So since this accusation has been addressed several times then I can only believe that you keep bringing it up just to be vulgar.Now as far as Jesus having Male disciples this is what I call a TSFC remark, “TO STUPID FOR COMMENT”.
Hello Mr.Fat Man:Thanks for that explanation about the emphasis on "to covet" in DEUT 5:21/EXOD 20:17.I had heard that idea that the 10 commnadments treat women as property.But you have answered the objection.Thanks again.That was why I came here,to learn.I have noticed one thing about Mohammed in the hadiths.He often contradicts himself and contradicts the Koran.Osama gave a good hadith where beating a wife is outlawed,and that's good,yet the Koran says otherwise.Then Ehteshaam gave verses where the Koran says woman are the equal of men,good,great,you also find it in the Bible.Yet in a hadith in BUKHARI,repeated in MUSLIM,and considered authentic,Mohammed is questioned by a group of women.THE QUESTIONSMohammed tells them they are deficient in intelligence and religion.Why?They ask.He asks them if it is not true that the testimony of 2 women is worth that of 1 man."Yes",they say."See,that is why you are deficient in intelligence."He then asks if they know a woman can't pray or fast while in menstruation."Yes",they say."See,that is why are mentally deficient."As you can see that is hardly a scientific statement. CONTRADICTIONIt would contradict the Koran.But most Muslims consider this hadith true.And even in the Koran there are contradictions about the relation between men and women.That was what I pointed out regarding what the Koran logically says about slave women and some hadiths.
Others in this blog that are smarter and wiser then I, have already addressed you on the Islamic fallacy that Christians believe that the Father had sex with Mary to produce Jesus.Yo Fat Man,Gulam keeps making this utterly false accusation because the Quran, as faulty as it is, forces him to take this position. Any fair-minded Muslim (…) will have to concede that we as Christians NEVER BELIEVED that Elohim had sex with Miryam from which union Yeshua came. But since the Quran claims we do believe this, any Muslim is forced by default that this is what we believe, because Allah made this gross error in his so-called error free book. And because Muslims have to maintain that the Quran doesn’t have any errors, they will suppress this clear and blatant error that Allah made in order not to concede that the Quran doesn’t live up to its own standard, namely, “Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy.”So as long as Muslims like Esteshaam believe that the Quran is true, even when it contradicts basic historical facts, we will keep hearing this egregious lie about our beliefs. The irony is, that Allah constantly declares others liars when they differ with him. Allah is nothing but a stone… errr… Pot calling the Kettle black. No wonder Muslims behave in similar fashion. You give them facts and they declare you a liar by default and make up their own “facts” as they see fit, as long as it supports their views.Nakdimon
@ Osama The Great Abdallahyes, you're right... I'm allways reffering to you... nott due to a lack od sympathy, rather because I recon you're the muslim apologist "per antonomasia"... in the latter cases I did reffer to you also because Ehteshaam Not the Young Gulam is folowing many off your examples... nothing more... butt I'll refrain to do so... anithing else you see I'm doing wrong, justte pointe it too mee and I'll condider itt...May God (and God for me is the Holy Trinity) may bless you The OSama The Great Abdallah
@ Ehteshaam Not the Young Gulam#1: dialogue? 1) you NEBER, as I remember, EBEN tryied to answer any off my previous (until yesterday) interpetalions to your person...2) you NEBER answered to my reptus to show ANY solid evidence to your false statements, for example, thate Mary was 12 years old when she got married...so: either you're lying, or you habe a weak memory... iff I'm wrong, please show me where...#2: leaving alone1) why do say to me to leave you alone? Is thate a demand? Butt where is the "please"? Or a threat? Neber the less, I'll always point all your's (and other muslims) falsitys and incosistencies...2) iff you do nott me to be a "patella vulgata" in your back, you simply habe to gett your facts straights and stop behaving likke a spoilled childe (I'll gett to this in my next pointt) who comes into the room cryes something and then runs away sayin other are being to emotional... well (eben when that's nott the case), our emotions are stired upp by your lyeis and false statemenst and lack off coherence...#3: the young1) as far as I remember, it was you thate one day saide: «I'm just an young apologist»... well, the epitetous sticked...2) iff you do nott likke itt, I'll neber use itt again... it's as simple as thate...3) itt woulde bee greatte iff you'lde refrainn off behaving like a baby... neber the less, I'll refrain to use thate epitetous inconditionaly...your's in Jesus Christ, our God...
@ Ehteshaam The not Young Gulamlet's habe our lesson off Bible today? ok (I'll simple speakk aboutt the verses you presented; I'll noot use other verses thate shoulde be read in conection withe thise ones)...1) God the Father is nott a man, neither a male... He's as "male" as "female"...2) The eternel Son existed previous to His incarnation... this is typical muslim ignorance... nad thate eternal Son was as "male" as "female"; only when He incarnated He assumed a male body... and do you know why, don't you?3) Jesus has female disciples...4) aboutte 1 Timothy 2:11-12 and 1 Cor 14:34-35: Paul is only saying thate woman were nott, during the liturgical teachings (nott away from this context... there were women cathequista as earlier as the Christianity existed...), allowed to speakk when someone was giving a llecture... I reconne thate it was a commum pratice to women bee speaking between one an other makking the male preacher habe difficulties to keep the attention off the audience and, being so, being "dominated" bie the female behaviour... and in islam: are women allowed to pray in mosques near to men? can they gibbe usually (as is commun in a greatt percentage off Christianity) religious teachings?4) aboutte 1 Cor 11:7-9... ounce again the context are the litturgical assemblies... "glory" is the mostte beautifful title than can be giben to someone: "man" is the expression, the manifestation off the moste nuclear being off God: His love... when God gives Himself totally we habe "man"... an the same linne, the "women" is the expression off the loving off "man": she's whate occurs when "man" sayis everything aboutt him... that's why the "male" is named "ish", and the female is called "isha"... and yes: according withe the biblical narration off the creattion, the "woman" was creatted in order the "man" was nott alone, butt before, as you well know (see Gn. 1,26) was the "human being" withoute reffering to the division off the sexes... butt since the "man" was created to "God" and thate does not diminishes "man"'s dignity (on the contrary), teh factt "woman" was creatted to "man" does nott diminuishes her dignity, on the contrary...as I saide, a bunch off other biblical textes (eben those verses thate are just before and after the ones you presentted... I recone you just toke these ones from an ignorant anti-Christian internet site and did nott eben the attetion to read the text in wich they are...) shoulde bee used to justify theses textes, butt eben the simple analisis off the texts you presentted in itself show how far you're from the truth...
minoria thank you for your kind words. I was discusing with another blogger on why we should continue to respond to Esthshaams accusations. I said its not to him we are responding its for others in the Blog.I have no doubt that Ethshaam the Old will not read my comments. Even If he does I'm sure it will go over his head and he will just either come up with a another baseless accusation or repeat his same accusations over and over again. Then post links to websies that he thinks will back up his charges.
"Osama said: "A man can't just go beating his wife around for any reason, in Islam."Osama, please explain to us all why a man should EVER beat his wife?I'm sorry, but when I sit and write a list of things a man should never ever do for any reason, "Beat his wife" would definitely be on the list." Shepher, There are several reasons why a man NOT ONLY SHOULD BEAT HIS WIFE, but beat the day lights out of her as well! Here are some of them: Note: I personally love my wife very dearly, and appreciate her infinite patience and sacrifice with me and my Islamic activities. She is BY FAR not a woman that would fit in the following category, because she is an honorable woman: 1- In the days of swords and tribal societies, the man's honor is his wife. If the woman is loose and flirty, then she could cause for her husband to end up in a mortal combat with another individual, by the sword, or for her entire family or even tribe to go to war with another. So women can be disasterous if they choose to. DAVID AND BETHSHEBA, AND THE DISASTER: You know the story of David and Bethsheba in the Bible. You know that she could've stopped that animal from causing for her husband to get killed. But because she was a whore, she allowed herself to sleep with another man while she was married. If she didn't like her husband, then she should've divorced herself from him first, and then went off to play with someone else. She would still be a whore anyway, along with him, but she would not have caused for her husband to get killed by David's conspiracy. A GREAT EXAMPLE THAT PROVES THAT WOMEN'S SNARES ARE QUITE DANGEROUS. If Bethsheba was my sister, then believe me, all of her brothers, including myself would skin her alive along with her boyfriend. 2- The woman is the mother, sister, and daughter. But most importantly, she is the mother of the children, and if she is not responsible enough to care for the house and the children, especially in the old days, then she could bring catastrophe for the entire family. On average, the father is usually busy working all day to bring money and food. The mother, on the other hand, has the responsibility to care for the children and to raise the sons and daughters right. If your son is constantly in the streets, then he could GET KIDNAPPED, RAPED, KILLED, or end up with the wrong group. YOUR DAUGHTER could also end up getting pregnant or raped. The bottom line is that the mother is everything! If she is irresponsible and careless, then her offsprings will be in great danger, especially if the father is always out working. 3- The woman who has a filthy mouth and always defies her husband, especially when he is a good and reasonable person, can and will bring harm upon herself, because let's face it: Men are, on average, 5 to 10 times stronger than women. A wise woman would not want to enter into a physical confrontation with her man, especially during the old days, where men were extremely big on honor and pride. A woman challenging his dignity could end up getting hurt very very bad. These points, by the way, go for all religions, and not just Islam. You have to leave your current mentality of where you have no problem with your sister having a boyfriend and losing her virginity, to the mentality of the honor, pride, dignity, and tribal ruling, and male dominance. AGAIN, PLEASE KNOW THAT I LOVE MY WIFE, and I am certain that none of my points above would apply to any honorable woman who cares for her children and husband. Also, I personally agree that many men out there DESERVE TO BE PUNISHED SEVERELY! It is not always the woman's fault. I hope this helps. Take care,Osama Abdallahwww.answering-christianity.com
Abdallah said:My dear Super Fernando,I've been noticing that you kept bringing me up in much of your posts, even when I had not participated in the thread. Do you want me to send you a personal picture of myself to frame so that you can see me 24/7? May I suggest that you put it right on top of the TV? :-)I'll send you the frame with it as well. What inscription do you want to be carved on it?Osama Abdallahwww.answering-christianity.comI say LOL!!!! LOL!!!Fernando, this is one of the reasons why avoid communicating with you. You seem to treat others with disrespect and with a condescending attitude. You are disrespectful to Osama Abdallah (a man who deserves respect!) and your pre-fixing of the word 'young' whenever addressing Ehteshaam seems condescending. This is not the main reason I avoid communicating with you though.I ask all Christians on here(including David Wood) to rethink your manners and behaviour towards Muslims. I have seen many examples of disrespect towards Muslims from Christians on this forum. Oh yeh, that includes David Wood, I still await his apology for slandering me.
I do not believe any religion is anti-women.All religions honour women, including Islam and Christianity.Everything must be contextualised as much as possible. However I do believe Islam did give many rights to women which were non-existent in pre-Islamic Arabia. Islam is a force for great goodness. May Allah guide us all.And Ramadan Mubarak to Ehteshaam and Osama Abdallah..may Allah make us and our families have a good Ramadan. Ameen.
Sorry few fixings of typos: 1- When I called King David an animal, I meant it in the context of the Old Testament's story. In Islam, we do not directly have that story, but there are hints for it. Even if he did it, he still was forgiven by GOD Almighty for it. So he is no longer an animal. 2-The following paragraph is completed as shown below: These points, by the way, go for all religions, and not just Islam. You have to leave your current mentality of where you have no problem with your sister having a boyfriend and losing her virginity, to the mentality of the honor, pride, dignity, and tribal ruling, and male dominance, IF YOU TRULY WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PEOPLE OF OLD THOUGHT and HOW THEY LIVED. However, today, we have to abide the Law. It is no longer the age of the sword. Dear brother Yahya, May Allah Almighty greatly bless you for the kind words. Ramadan Mubarak for you and your family as well, dear brother. Take care and thanks everyone for your reading,Osama Abdallahwww.answering-christianity.com
Hello Mr.Fat Man:Thank you for the comment.Rifqa's case will be 3:15 pm today.I have just spoken with a rep in the Governor of Florida's office telling her to tell him to let her stay in the DFC of Florida.She said she had written it in the computer.Amana Sheikh sent me a message that she has sent an email to the governor.As for Ehteshaam.I have noticed he raised the sword word used by Jesus.It had been answered before.The DETAIL that surprises us all is why he gives no reason WHY our explanation does not convince him.That is how a true dialogue goes.THAT was what he should have addressed.SAMARITAN CASEFor example,ME,I gave the reasons WHY I was not convinced by the Muslim explanation to solve the error.Ehteshaam or somebody else should have given their reason why my objections were not good.WHY?Otherwise it gives the impression there is no good answer by Muslims to an honest objection by an unbeliever.I gave reasons why even conceding as much as possible to the Muslim case,Mohammed is still NOT in John.No Muslim yet has told me WHY my objections are flawed,and that Mohammed is really in John.In Christianity there are good answers to objections.
Hello Yahya Snow:You have a point that things have sometimes got out of hand.Hopefully they will get better.In a debate between MICHAEL LICONA and ALI ATAIE on "the resurrection or rescue of Jesus",somebody in the audience asked Ali Ataie point-blank if he was in favor of death for apostates.MOMENT OF TRUTHTo my utter surprise he said he did not know enough about the issue,he was no scholar in Islamic law.If somebody asks you point blank if you are against RACISM,then refusing to answer shows you really aren't.NO COMPULSION IN RELIGIONIt seems Yahya Seymour and Paul Williams agree (hopefully not)with death for apostates,though they certainly were NOT in favor of it when they were Christian.I do not know if you were a Christian before,but judging from your name,it seems you are a European who converted to Islam.Maybe I am wrong.CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONSBut I am almost sure you were against death for apostasy before.Do you still hold to that position?I hope so.And if not,why?Because death for apostasy goes contrary to Western civilization.Muslim intellectuals in the West say there is no "clash of civilizations".It was invented by Islamophobes.But there is if ALI ATAIE,a LEADER of the Muslim students,is incapable of condemning it outright.What an example for his people.If you are in favor of execution,then why?I will not insult you but I do believe it is not what God wants.
@ Yhaya Snow1) where in the World did The Osama The Great Abdallah say I was offending him?;2) I explainned him why I was continuosly reffering to him;3) how in the worlde is calling Ehteshaam Gulam as "young" is apttermalism? It woulde bee iff i treated him as a child, butt I do nott;4) it was Ehteshaam Gulam thate oppened the dorr to thatte epitetous;5) so: nor I was nott offensive, nor paternalistique: you muslims are toooo delicate... as a sworde (the sorde islam used to spread) made off butter... thate won't worke: islam is the most offensive and intolerant religion in the worlde from its core, never the less, muslims always apperar auto-vitimizing... poor delicate flowers...;6) you say you do nott speakke withe me... butt whate do you call saying so? a qur'anic form off mutism?7) we all know why you do nott dialogue with mee... it's recorded here in this blogg: because I refused to speake withe you via email as you demanded adter publishing in public a vacuum attempt to deny thate muhammad had sex withe a childe (wghich, bie the way, I reffuted totally sever and sever times...)...8) you ask us apologies, butt where are you're apologies for whate you called ALL Christians in thate article off yours?so Yahya Snow... ounce is ok: twice can happen; the third time is being offensive... butt this is the 5th time I say this to you: grow upp and do nott auto-proclame yourself as the deffender off all muslims: The Muslim Phanton allready as donne thate...
Another bizzare thing, when I spoke to muslim wome, their dream is that when they go to heaven is to marry Muhammed , that sounds realy awfle , are they not that sincere to their husbands ?! what will this add to the Islamic Concepts, when all women marry their prophet ?! what men are gonna do at this time with this prophet who took all their wives ?!
Yahya says :"However I do believe Islam did give many rights to women which were non-existent in pre-Islamic Arabia. Islam is a force for great goodness."After listening to you in debate and reading your answers on this blog, I understand you have great respect for scholarship. Are you able to provide authentic, non-islamic, sources for this claim?As pre-Islamic arabia (ie prior to 570AD) was a matrilineal society, and there was a definite and curious stop of all writings coming out of the area from 570AD until the islamic era, I find it hard to accept this claim as it stands without independent, authentic and non-islamic sources.
Osama Abdallah said... "There are several reasons why a man NOT ONLY SHOULD BEAT HIS WIFE, but beat the day lights out of her as well! Here are some of them:"Wow Osama let me just say I am really impressed with your honesty on the subject. It is such a rare thing (honesty in muslims that is) when it comes to this subject.
Dear Prophet... you madde a mistake... this Yahya (Snow) os nott teh Yahya (Seymour) thate debated Professor Wood...And GREAT point you made abouute ANOTHER lyie from Yahya Snow... his ignorance is beccoming proverbial...
Hi minoria...Thanks for your polite response, I appreciate it. good respect seems to come at a premium on this forum.Beofre I answer, may I ask you a question;Does the Old Testament not teach killing apostates?Please do not answer if you feel uncomfortable. i know we are talking of very delicate and emotice topics, hence it is important to be as respectful and confortable as possible.I personally do not feel forums on the internet are the the most suitable places to discuss such issues.Anyhow, it is Ramadan now, this is a Holy month where Muslims fast. It is a great month for spirituality. I ask all to get involved and I ask allah to make it a great Ramadan. Ameen.Take care Minoria.:)
Hello Yahya Snow:Thanks for the reply.I do not feel uncomfortable about discussing the death penalty of Mosaic Law.I am not the greatest expert but I think I have a good knowledge.It is prescribed for like 12 cases,including working on the Sabbath,adultery,etc.My response,which because of length will have to be in several parts will consist of the following:1.God knew beforehand the Jewish people would apostasize massively:DEUT 31:16-18.2.Under the 14 judges they each time,I think,apostasized massively,and each time a new judge arose to guide them back.3.Death for apostasy did in no way prevent massive apostasy.4.None of the kings of the Kingdom of Israel followed God.There was massive apostasy till it was destroyed in 722 BC.5.Few of the kings of the Kingdom of Judah were faithful to God,they cared less about who apostazied.It was finally destroyed in 586 BC.6.When the Jews as a people finally overcame the habit of following other gods,very few WOULD HAVE changed religion EVEN IF there had been no death for apostasy law.The other religions:multiple gods of the Egyptians with their animal heads,human gods of the Greeks and Romans,did NOT attract them in the least.ONLY FOR 1% OF HUMANITYAs you already know it is only for the Jewish people.In Judaism non-Jews just have to follow 7 NOAHIDE laws,none of which say anything about getting killed for anything.NEW COVENANTAs I understand it,the essence of the Torah,or love your neighbor like yourself is what is eternal.More on this later,but I think you have got the substance.
The Fat Man said: "Wow Osama let me just say I am really impressed with your honesty on the subject. It is such a rare thing (honesty in muslims that is) when it comes to this subject."Yeah. I actually thought there was no way in the world he would answer my question. When I typed it, it was almost meant to be a rhetorical question [that is how sure I was it would go unanswered]. Imagine my surprise when Osama just came right out with an answer. I am surprised by his candor, and horrified by his beliefs about marital relationships.
To continue about death for apostasy in Mosaic Law,and WHY?DEUT 31:16-18 has God tell Moses the Jewish people will commit mass apostasy.DEUT 31:24-30 has Moses telling his people that they are going to do mass apostasy.And that was after the death for apostasy law was made.OBJECTIVE OF THE LAWLooking back,it was made to prevent mass apostasy,but IN ITSELF,it prove powerless to prevent it.In fact at the end of the book of JUDGES it has(the last sentence),JUDGES 21:25:"In those days there was no king in Israel.Each man did what was right in his own eyes."Later on even SOLOMON apostasized(and we are not sure if he repented or not).WHAT FINALLY WORKEDIt was NATIONAL DISASTERS that finally made the Jewish people go up to the next level and no longer follow other gods.The 10 tribes of Israel disappeared in 722 BC.RICH TRADTION OF INTERPRETATION AND REINTERPRETATION IN JUDAISMThe ESSENES were 4000 and were 100% against slavery.Yet slavery is in Mosaic Law,with many restrictions.I often wondered how the Essenes got to that conclusion.I think they got it from 2 sources:LEV 19:18/19:34And DEUT 15:4:"there should be NO POOR among you,in the land the Lord your God is giving you."LOGIC:It would be that a well-off person would never be a slave,or would buy his/her way out of it.So what God really wants is a slaveless society,where all men are brothers.They knew that DEUT 15:11 says "there will always be poor in the land"(just a few verses later) but they would have thought one had to strive for what the ideal was.There is a bit more,but for later.
Osama:over and over again showing his ignorance of christianit:Hebrew 10:28 Anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.29 Think how much more terrible the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God and have treated the blood of the covenant as if it were common and unholy. Such people have insulted and enraged the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to his people..............................2 Corinthians 3 6 He is the one who has enabled us to represent his new covenant. This is a covenant, not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old way ends in death; in the new way, the Holy Spirit gives life.7 That old system of law etched in stone led to death, yet it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses' face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away.8 Shouldn't we expect far greater glory when the Holy Spirit is giving life?9 If the old covenant, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new covenant, which makes us right with God!10 In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new covenant.11 So if the old covenant, which has been set aside, was full of glory, then the new covenant, which remains forever, has far greater glory.12 Since this new covenant gives us such confidence, we can be very bold.13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory fading away.14 But the people's minds were hardened, and even to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, a veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ.15 Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, then the veil is taken away.17 Now, the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, he gives freedom.18 And all of us have had that veil removed so that we can be mirrors that brightly reflect* the glory of the Lord. And as the Spirit of the Lord works within us, we become more and more like him and reflect his glory even more.........................Also I advice you to read the whole Hebrews chapter 9 .......................Now OSama, tell us what you understand from this passages ?? if you dont understand anything, let us know we are here to help eradicate your ignorance, an illiteracy.
Would i be right to say that in Islam, God (who is said to be the only judge) delegates his powers of judgment and punish/pardon to men(i mean MALE persons)? It seems to me that men are given the right to dispense justice; they are like the police and the judge rolled into one. I never see Allah stepping forward to respond/ punish/forgive people's actions, as I see the God in the bible do. Its always muslim men at the fore-front and most of the time they are meting out punishment or advocating for it. Is this responsibility given to them by the koran/hadiths other islamic texts?I'm not very knowledgeable about islam and the koran/hadiths and I'd like some one to help me out on this. thanks.
A bit more about death for apostasy in Mosaic Law.I know that today it is de facto a dead letter.I suspect it is that the rabbis have considered the fact that when it was first made it was because of the future mass apostasies that would occur over the centuries time after time.But TODAY there is no danger of utter abandonment by the Jews of Judaism,so whatever losses occur will in no way endanger worship of Yahweh.There will always be a large proportion that will remain faithful.
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