Sunday, August 9, 2009

Acts 17 Radio?

Friends,

Recently, a major time slot opened up over at WMCA, the main Christian network in the New York area. Nabeel and I have been asked if we'd like to do a radio show on Christian/Muslim topics. There's no way we can hope to afford a weekly show, but we're thinking of starting a monthly show. The goal would be to eventually have Christian businesses sponsor a weekly program (in exchange for advertising). For now, we'd be happy getting our foot in the door with one program per month. However, without a sponsor, the price tag is way too high for us ($600 per broadcast). We're wondering how many people would be willing to contribute monthly until we get a sponsor. If we've got enough people behind us, we're going to sign the contract and record our first show.

The show would appear at 4:00 P.M., right before "Focus on the Family," and would reach people in all five boroughs of New York City, as well as much of New Jersey and Connecticut, and so a ton of people driving home from work would hear a lot about Islam that they wouldn't hear otherwise. Of course, anyone in the world can listen to the show via live-streaming, and we'll put MP3s here on the blog. Here's a list of the current line up. If anyone has any thoughts, please contact me (David@Acts17.net).

85 comments:

ubiquitouserendipity said...

i have added an extra $50 to my monthly commitment to the ministry. i truly wish it could be more. G_d bless and keep you and your beloved families david and nabeel. Peace, in His love, papajoe

Radical Moderate said...

Well if I ever get a job I will definitly contribute to that

Unknown said...

I am looking for a job too ... Pray I will get a job, and sure i will be more than happy to contribute . GBU All

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

600 a broadcast? Forget it, not worth it.

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

From now on BOTH Nabeel and David Wood are part of my wolf pack. Both of these people are my good friends.

But a radio show? I would much rather do youtube videos on my site because

1) Its a lot cheaper
2) People will view it
3) Its a lot easier.

If there is one good thing my parents taught me, its save your money.

And Fatman and ubiquitouserendipity, leave me alone. Fatman stop online stalking me (its creeping me out) and Ubi-Idiot, leave me alone and don't talk about me or my friend Osama. Oh and may I add this:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm

Read the whole thing.
A lot of interesting things here.

Feels good to be back.

Yours in Islam
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

ubiquitouserendipity said...

Ehteshaam Gulam said...
From now on BOTH Nabeel and David Wood are part of my wolf pack. Both of these people are my good friends.

But a radio show? I would much rather do youtube videos on my site because

1) Its a lot cheaper
2) People will view it
3) Its a lot easier.

If there is one good thing my parents taught me, its save your money.

And Fatman and ubiquitouserendipity, leave me alone. Fatman stop online stalking me (its creeping me out) and Ubi-Idiot, leave me alone and don't talk about me or my friend Osama. Oh and may I add this:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm

Read the whole thing.
A lot of interesting things here.

Feels good to be back.

Yours in Islam
Ehteshaam Gulam

ubiquitouserendipity says: dear eteshaam gulam: may the Lord G_d our Savior bless you and bring you to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. may you come to know His peace, His love, and the freedom of spirit with which His Holy Spirit imbues the saved.

also, i'm glad that you can consider my Christian brothers your friends. you are nigh unto the kingdom, i pray.

by the by ~ the only reason i have had interactions with you or "the world renowned" osama is 'cuz y'all have some crazy idea that you can run your necks at me and i'm not to respond. get over yourselves. as long as this is america, and just so long as i do not interfere with the focus of this ministry, i will respond as i see fit. this crap started because i posted to the Christians on this site regarding a post from tom in texas re: the insubstantiality of the pagan rock-god, mohammed's cosmic bell-boy, allah. now i realize that this is an open (within reasonable limits) forum, so y'alls allowed to run your yammer-jammers pretty much without restraint. but don't expect me to curl up in the face of what i consider heresy, idolatry, and the absolute filth of the mohammedan belief set.

so again ehteshaam, be blessed of the G_d of creation, be well in life, stay safe so that you may avail yourself to the opportunity to come to know the One True and Living G_d, Hashem Adonai, and His unblemished Lamb, Yehoshua ha Meshiach. until then ehteshaam, i will consider you one of G_d's projects.

Peace, in His love, papajoe

Dragostea said...

the same problem here too: jobless, but david and nabeel im sure God will show you what to do...and the fact that a muslim like Gulam gives you reasons for not opening the broadcast, i think it's obvious what plans God has for us...ill pray for people and maybe even churches or organizations to join your ministry of reaching people for Christ.
The hardest part is at the beginning but once people see the results and people getting saved and testimonies of the people listening to your show, i think you will have no problem paying for the show.

ill pray for you guys...

Haecceitas said...

If you can't afford the radio show but are interested in the radio format, you might want to consider producing a podcast. Probably it would reach a smaller number of people first, but given your recent publicity on Youtube etc, it might well turn out to be a popular podcast with lots of listeners worldwide. You'd have at least one listener in Finland. ;-)

Royal Son said...

Ehteshaam: When I saw you post a link from Newadvent, I thought....nahhh it couldn't be could it? surely Ehteshaam is not posting a link about the 90 year old Joseph and 12 year old Mary is he? I put the address in my address bar, and whaddya know ? It's about Mary and Joseph ! How did I guess ? :) Now, Osama has brought up this issue before, so I'm not sure if perhaps you got the link from him, but let me say something to you briefly sir...

You want to be a respected apologist of Islam. I suggest that while you have invited we Christians to read the page, that you yourself read it, and then re-read it, and re-read it once again just for good measure.

Once you have done that, be a good apologist and tell us why muslims cannot use this to try to prove that Joseph was 90 years old and Mary was 12.

Thank you and God bless you.
Royal Son.

Sepher Shalom said...

It seems you have a lot of jobless/semi-employed fans David and Nabeel [including me] :-P. I'm traveling to another country for 3 months, but if I can't give before I leave, I will be able to commit something when I get back.

And Haecceitas has a good suggestion about the podcast. This would even be good alongside the radio show. I will try to get my local congregation to give some support.

I suggest all the brothers and sisters here talk to your local congregation(s) about supporting this ministry! It is an underfunded harvest field.

Krishnaraj said...

"A bad wife brings humiliation, downcast looks, and a wounded heart. Slack of hand and weak of knee is the man whose wife fails to make him happy. Woman is the origin of sin, and it is through her that we all die. Do not leave a leaky cistern to drip or allow a bad wife to say what she likes. If she does not accept your control, divorce her and send her away" (Ecclesiasticus 25:25).Bible

QURAN SAYS :

" O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the Mahr you have given them, unless they commit open illegal sexual intercourse. And live with them honourably. If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allah brings through it a great deal of good "

Al-Quran 4:19

Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) gave a similar instruction:

" A believing man must not hate a believing woman. If he dislikes one of her traits he will be pleased with another" (Muslim).

David Wood said...

Whoa! Did everyone catch the "Bible" quotation from Krishnaraj? Does anyone notice anything suspicious about it? Oh my! It's not in any of my Bibles! Ecclesiasticus!!! Is it just me, or are the Muslims here getting desperate?

Sahih al-Bukhari 5825--Aisha said [Commenting on a woman whose Muslim husband beat her until her skin turned green]: “I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!” (Note: Muhammad rebuked the woman, not the man.)

So Krishnaraj tells us that women have it good in Islam. Aisha, the Mother of the Faithful, says that Muslim women were suffering more than pagan women (due, I suspect, to the fact that Muhammad and the Qur'an justified beating women). Whom should we believe, Krishnaraj or Aisha?

Sepher Shalom said...

Krishnaraj,

It's "Ecclesiastes" not "Ecclesiasticus"....and that book only goes up to Chapter 12. There is no 25.

...and also...I believe the debate on women in Islam and the Bible is that way >>>>>

Sepher Shalom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David Wood said...

No, he's referring to Ecclesiasticus (a non-canonical work). He just doesn't realize that it isn't in the Bible.

Royal Son said...

Somehow, we are supposed to care about an apocryphal work that has never been a part of the canon of the bible.

Next thing they'll be quoting from the book of Mormon.

Some apologists are really scraping the bottom of a very large barrel.

Sepher Shalom said...

That's a new one for me, David. I guess I need to brush up on my apocrypha.

Fernando said...

Young Ehteshaam... ounce again trying to proove the undefensable from The Catholique Encyclkopedia of 1910? Why do you nott qoute from the latest edition thate makes much more clear whate that previous edition states? Poor soul... you're getting desesperate in order to keep up with the false believes thate were imposed uppon you...

1) our only cannonical source is the Bible;

2) there were other books thate wanted to meke themselfes seem like Christians, butt they were gnostic ones;

3) in these latter ones some facts were ceatted in order to justiffy the gnostic believes;

4) some off these statements were, gradualy, assumed as possibilities (nott as realities) to fullfill some "lacks" off information aboutte the lifes off some impostant biblical persons thate the biblical authors assumed (and righte) them nott to be impostant to the message they were communicatting;

5) they were never, never, assumed as the truth;

6) whate the article off the 1910 Catholic Encyclopedia referes is nott whate was, butt whate those apochryfall texts states...;

7) I'll quote justt the first paragraph in order to make itt more easy to some Christian ingnorantt people to graspp it (takke noticce young Ehteshaam on whate is in bold letters):

The chief sources of information on the life of St. Joseph are the first chapters of our first and third Gospels; they are practically also the only reliable sources, for, whilst, on the holy patriarch's life, as on many other points connected with the Saviour's history which are left untouched by the canonical writings, the apocryphal literature is full of details, the non-admittance of these works into the Canon of the Sacred Books casts a strong suspicion upon their contents; and, even granted that some of the facts recorded by them may be founded on trustworthy traditions, it is in most instances next to impossible to discern and sift these particles of true history from the fancies with which they are associated. Among these apocryphal productions dealing more or less extensively with some episodes of St. Joseph's life may be noted the so-called "Gospel of James", the "Pseudo-Matthew", the "Gospel of the Nativity of the Virgin Mary", the "Story of Joseph the Carpenter", and the "Life of the Virgin and Death of Joseph".

thankes Young Ehteshaam to this opportunity to show how ignorant and desesperat must bee the universe off the muslim apologists in order to refer to the 1910 Catholique Encyclopedia (whic, as the bold letters above reffers make itt clear thate this is nott a Christian believe) to defend the paedophilia acts off muhammad...

Fernando said...

Hello Krishnaraj...

glade to habe you here ounce again... you're a clear example off wahte muslims beliebe due to the falsities they are tought by theire schollars and teachers in order to make them resilient to the will to leave islam...

Krishnaraj...

1) the Book of Ben Sira thate you quoted (antienly called "Eclesiasticus") were previously written in greek, nott in aramaic ore hebrew;

2) due to thate fact the council off Jamnia (after the year 70 off the Christian era) did nott assumed itt as part off the hebrew Bible;

3) some Christian denominations (as you habe possibly notices by the commentaries arounde here) follow the jewish canon or a canon based on the hebrew only texts off the OT;

4) other Christian denominations follow a bigger canon asuming all the texts thate were used in the time of Jesus for religious purposed were they primarely written in Hebrew/aramaic or greek and were quoted by the NT authors;

5) these discrepancies are only due to historical elements thate do nott diminuish, by any means, the comun centrality off the Biblical canon;

6) let's assume thate the book you quoted was a canonical book (since some say the NT authors used itt and thate he was used as a religious book in the time off Jesus by greek speaking jews eben when, latter, in order to preserv tha identity off judaism after the destruction off the Temple of Jerusalem was decided to habe a jeish canon based on a hebrew only texts...);

7) the text you quote is nott speaking off ALL women... Ben Sira 25:13-26 is a poem thate makes an unity and is ONLY referring off those WICKET (a term used in order to reffer to ex-pagans women thate married to jewish persons... a reality tahte was bery commun in the diaspora...) women who did nott want to followe the religious duties;

8) so Krishnaraj: the text is a warning to jewish persons off the diaspora nott to marry non jewish women thate latter woulde nott want to accept the religious duties (an analogi to Eve thate made Adam eat the fruit...) off someone married withe a jewish man;

9) butt iff they married them, they shoulde warn them with the "eye" and the "finger" (verse 26): this is: withe love and with authority (no one beats a woman witha an eyes or with a finger...) and only iff they persist in thate behaviour thate was makking perish the faith off tje jewish man; they shoulde divorce them...

10) Krishnaraj do you know thate we Christians do nott follow the OT as there was no NT? The only rule to read the OT is the NT...

ounce again: thankes Krishnaraj to this oportunity to express how ignorant mustte bee muslims in matter off biblical an Christian matters in order to use a text like the one you used to provve anything... you're almost seeming like Zakarias...

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

To David Wood:

some muslims are starting some bad rumors about you David Wood, I told them they are false and I told them to mind their own business. Then they accuse me of making friends of Anti-Islamic preachers. Man, I don't understand Extreme muslims sometimes. I have no problems with you or Nabeel, just because we believe in different things doesn't mean your hopelessly evil or I am an Anti-Christ.

We both worship the same God, its just the concept of God that is different.

You may want to tell them yourself-- you may want to clear up these rumors and gossip yourself (I am not even going to post what they are out of respect for David Wood) I don't like it when people talk bad about my friends.

Thanks,
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

Unknown said...

Krishnarj: You go !! keep showing us that u are ignorants following the ignorant !!

I really like it when muslims expose themselves, so we can just watch !!

Osama Abdallah said...

"Whoa! Did everyone catch the "Bible" quotation from Krishnaraj? Does anyone notice anything suspicious about it? Oh my! It's not in any of my Bibles! Ecclesiasticus!!! Is it just me, or are the Muslims here getting desperate?

Sahih al-Bukhari 5825--Aisha said [Commenting on a woman whose Muslim husband beat her until her skin turned green]: “I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!” (Note: Muhammad rebuked the woman, not the man.)

So Krishnaraj tells us that women have it good in Islam. Aisha, the Mother of the Faithful, says that Muslim women were suffering more than pagan women (due, I suspect, to the fact that Muhammad and the Qur'an justified beating women). Whom should we believe, Krishnaraj or Aisha?"

David Wood,

The book of Ecclesiasticus is part of the New Jerusalem Bible, a Roman Catholics Bible. And there are more than 1 billion of them in the world. So brother Krishnaraj's reference is valid.

As to the quote not being part of your Bible, please, your entire Bible is equal to the quote that you reject. But regardless, there are TONS OF MORE QUOTES LIKE THIS AND WORSE in your so-called "canonized Bible" at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/view_of_women.htm


As to the Hadith that you quoted, the Prophet didn't rebuke the woman, and nor is our mother Aisha's quote a proof for anything. WOMEN ARE IMMOTIONAL AND SPEAK EMOTIONS ALL THE TIME. This is nothing new. That is why a single man's testimony is equal to 2 women. And by the way, to charge a woman of lewdness, you must have 4 male witnesses.

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, forbade beating of women. Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/beating_no.htm to see the ample quotes.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Krishnaraj said...

Is that true.I didnt know.

David Wood said...

Ehteshaam said: "some muslims are starting some bad rumors about you David Wood"

Praise the Lord!

Matthew 5:11-12--"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

Don't worry about what they say about you either, Ehteshaam. Some people are going to complain no matter what you do.

Unknown said...

Osama:
I dont know if you were seeking an answer, or you are just making ads for your website.
If you are making ads, then thx, we dont want viruses.

If you seeking an answer, then the Point u previously mentioned, was already answered by brother fernando, u can either go from there if u are not satisfied, or u can just watch !!

If u have other points u can bring them here for discussion, and not invite us to see what u write !

I guess u cant , cause u know all what u are writing are just wrong and depends on mutilatng texts and taking passages out of context, meanwhile, no one have asnwered us so far on what we ask regarding islamic humilation to women.(like when we already answered Ashraf on what he said).

I was previously disccusing the woman status in Heaven, do u have enough courage to discuss this ?!

Radical Moderate said...

Ehteshaam Gulam said...
And Fatman and ubiquitouserendipity, leave me alone. Fatman stop online stalking me (its creeping me out)

First Ehteshaam glad your back on the blog. Second I'm not stalking you. I have sent you a few emails over the months since you got on my radar.

The first was after you publicaly insulted me on your blog. A post you have since removed. Another time to send you the information on your good friend Nadir. Information your requested.

Another time was to send you a email expressing my disgust with muslims like you justifying mohamed and Aisha. I sent the email because David or Nabeel rightfully and justly did not allow it to be posted on the blog. I admit that it was a little over the top however I stand by my statements. And one or two other times that I have since forgotten.

I stand with ubiquitouserendipity. If you post something I will respond. I live in the United States of America, not the Islamic Republic of Kraptakistan. As much as you may wish all non muslims were subjegated to Dhimmi status, I am not a Dhimmi.

Ehteshaam if your going to give it, you better be able to take it.

Radical Moderate said...

Ehteshaam now to respond once again to your statements on the age of mary. I believe Fernando said it best. However I want to add once again that even if you are correct there is a big difference between a 12 year old and a 9 year old.

1. A 12 year old has all her adult teeth, and 9 year old still has baby teeth.
2. A 12 year old would not be playing with dolls, Aisha was still palying with dolls at 9.

Something for you to keep in mind when you go searching for your first wife at your local elementery school. Stay away from the 3rd and 4th grade kiddies. Nine year olds will get you life, a 12 year old; you might get out in 10 to 20 years.

Just for perspective, I googled 9 year old girls in images. This is what your prohet found physicaly attracive.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2l9jrzo&s=5

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/birmmail/sep2008/0/6/4749B0D9-0A71-2088-3328581DCC65F9AF.jpg

http://blog.syracuse.com/haveyouheard/2008/08/oly_080812_ap_Miaoke.jpg

http://blogs.nypost.com/popwrap/photos/Bindi.jpg
\

Now I have to go vommit.

David Wood said...

Be nice, Fat Man.

Fernando said...

brother shafsha saide to The Osama The Great Abdallah (I still don't undestand why he has as personal icon the house off a meteoritte thate was worshipped by pagans... another numerical miracle I guess): «If u have other points u can bring them here for discussion, and not invite us to see what u write!»... he's less, and less, willing to do thate because he knows he will habe to sustain an avalanche off truth... butt the more damaging is thate he's neber taking down on his site all the lies we desmantle arounde here... he keeps them on and on: this is a nother prroff, iff needed, thate muslims do nott seak the truth, rather only try to undermine it... to saad...

@ Krishnaraj:

I was sincerely touched by your willingness to admitt you did not know whate I explained. Its a small step... keep upp withe your search for the truth: as you see The Osama The Great Abdallah was quickly prepared no creatt more confusion aboutt whate I explainned...

@ brother Fat Man

you saide: «This is what your prohet found physicaly attracive»... I guess you're makking a mistake: in thate time, and due to the climatt, vegetation, food, lack off running watter and so on, tipical 9 lunar years old girls woulde bee, easely, mistakken by older wommen... some say they woulde nott habe teath already... something likke miss Amie Winnenose... butt this is justt whate some say... I personaly do nott beliebe is such thing: yes, they coulde look older, butt not as older as thate singer; maybe as this one:

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/Fig.38.jpg

Osama Abdallah said...

"brother shafsha saide to The Osama The Great Abdallah (I still don't undestand why he has as personal icon the house off a meteoritte thate was worshipped by pagans... another numerical miracle I guess)"

Fernando the Awsome,

The Kaaba is not a house of pagan worship. It was built originally by Abraham and his son Ishmael, peace be upon them:

"Behold! We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (i.e., the Kaaba), (Saying): 'Associate not anything (In worship) with Me; And sanctify My House For those who compass it round, Or stand up, Or bow, or prostrate themselves (Therein in prayer). And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)"

It then later got defiled with idols, BUT THAT STILL DOESN'T INVALIDATE THE HOUSE OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY.
Plus Fernando the Awsome Hero, the Bible in the Old Testament praises this:

"I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 138:2)"

We do bow down to Allah Almighty "TOWARDS HIS HOLY TEMPLE". It is the Christians who do not.

There are more verses from the Old Testament about building the Holy House of Allah Almighty: http://www.answering-christianity.com/que11.htm

My profile's icon is still better than Nabeel's icon of the blonde-haired and blue-eyed English Jesus Christ :-). You're so ashamed of how he originally looked that you have to alter even his ethnic looks. Alterations and fabrications are a must have in your faith, I guess, right? Even pictures have to be changed!

I am honestly sorry if this offends you, but I am sure you agree that it is ridiculous and childish for mature men even older than you and me to draw Jesus like this. This is is high school kids games, and it shouldn't be adopted by Churches and apologists.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Radical Moderate said...

David, I take your advice and your gentle rebuke. Ehteshaam I appologies to you sir. Really i do. Sometimes I'm to sarcastic for my own good.

Unknown said...

Osama:

U have hided the important part of the story !! Why the Ka'abba in particular ?! would u elaborate more on the story of the occupied house (Al Bayt Alma'amoor) in which Allah and his angles live ..And how this lies exacly in the same line, so tat if a stone fell down from this house, it would hit the Ka'abba !!

Dont you believe in this ?!

Second Al-Ka'aba was never built by Abraham, that was one of Muhammed's lies !! How long after abraham did muhamed make this claim that abraham was there to build it ?! Who else of the prophets pilgrimmed there ?!

Comparing this to the temple, what exactly is the resmeblance ?! do u have priesthood ? do u offer sacrifices ?!

Why do u pilgrim to Kabba, when the Jews, christians never and will not pilgrim to kab'aba ?? , it was only pagans and their fellow muslims !!

Talking about pictures and christian icons, would u show us picture of muhammed than better than the cartoons of denmark ?! is this because muslims didnt have any kind of civilization to know how draw arts and make paintings ?!

U havent told us why do muslim kiss the black stone ?!

Thx for the website, if u want to discuss something bring it here we are more than happy to help u out!

[It then later got defiled with idols, BUT THAT STILL DOESN'T INVALIDATE THE HOUSE OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY]

but how come u follow the same ritulas of pilgrims as pagans (the difference is that muslims are just covered with tiny clothes, but without underwear, like pagans!)

Dont you know that the word Hag ( pilgrim in arabic) origiates fr the word (hak) which mean rubbing. And this is because of two facts, the pagans used to rub themselves against the stone, and also it was kind of breeding season !!

Osama Abdallah said...

"Osama:

U have hided the important part of the story !! Why the Ka'abba in particular ?! would u elaborate more on the story of the occupied house (Al Bayt Alma'amoor) in which Allah and his angles live ..And how this lies exacly in the same line, so tat if a stone fell down from this house, it would hit the Ka'abba !!

Dont you believe in this ?!"

This is no where found in the Glorious Quran. And I strongly doubt that it exists in the Hadiths.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

Thanks David Wood,

From now on your a valuable member of my wolfpack.

As for Abraham and Ishmael going to Arabia and buliding the Kabba-- and the lack of evidence for it-- its mostly bulit on faith. We Muslims BELIEVE it happened. However it should be noted that Arabs and Jews are genetically related (they even look alike) strongly implying that they share a common ancestor, Abraham (may peace be upon him). You can read it here:

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/response-to-sam-shamouns-ishmael-is-not-the-father-of-muhammad/

Also according to the Bible, Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael were taken to the dessert of Paran (which has to be Arabia) and placed there, see Genesis 21:17-21. So you can see, that There is good evidence for Abraham going there and buliding the Kabba.

I'll try to do more research and put on my site, but it should be clear that Jews and Arabs are related-- and it has been proven through Arab Genelogies that Prophet Muhammad (p) great ancestor was Ishmael-- the first born of Abraham.

Yours in Islam
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

Have you also ever noticed that Arabs (from Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, etc) and Jews look alike? This is because they have the same genes--- they both hail from Abraham

Radical Moderate said...

Ok I'm leaving it alone. really I am. I'm so not going to respond. Really Im not. But if I was to respond i would say something like this.

01000101;01101000;01110100;01100101;01110011;01101000;01100001;01100001;01101101;00100000
;01000111;01110101;01101100;01100001;01101101;00100000;01110011;01100001;01101001;01100100
;00100000;01000001;01101100;01110011;01101111;00100000;01100001;01100011;01100011;01101111
;01110010;01100100;01101001;01101110;01100111;00100000;01110100;01101111;00100000;01110100
;01101000;01100101;00100000;01000010;01101001;01100010;01101100;01100101;00101100;00100000
;01000001;01100010;01110010;01100001;01101000;01100001;01101101;00101100;00100000;01001000
;01100001;01100111;01100001;01110010;00100000;01100001;01101110;01100100;00100000;01001001
;01110011;01101000;01101101;01100001;01100101;01101100;00100000;01110111;01100101;01110010
;01100101;00100000;01110100;01100001;01101011;01100101;01101110;00100000;01110100;01101111
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;01101110;00100000;00101000;01110111;01101000;01101001;01100011;01101000;00100000;01101000
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;01110010;01100001;01100010;01101001;01100001;00101001

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;01110111;01101000;01111001;00100000;01100100;01101111;01100101;01110011;00100000;01110000
;01100001;01110010;01100001;01101110;00100000;01101000;01100001;01110110;01100101;00100000
;01110100;01101111;00100000;01100010;01100101;00100000;01101001;01101110;00100000;01100001
;01110010;01100001;01100010;01101001;01100001;00101100;00100000;01110100;01101000;01100101
;00100000;01110100;01110010;01110101;01110100;01101000;00100000;01101001;01110011;00100000
;01110000;01100001;01110010;01100001;01101110;00100000;01101001;01110011;00100000;01101001
;01101110;00100000;00100000;01101110;01101111;01110010;01110100;01101000;00101101;01100101
;01100001;01110011;01110100;01100101;01110010;01101110;00100000;01110011;01100101;01100011
;01110100;01101001;01101111;01101110;00100000;01101111;01100110;00100000;01110100;01101000
;01100101;00100000;01010011;01101001;01101110;01100001;01101001;00100000;01110000;01100101
;01101110;01101001;01101110;01110011;01110101;01101100;01100001;00101110;00100000;01010100
;01101000;01100001;01110100;01110011;00100000;01100001;00100000;01101100;01101111;01101110
;01100111;00100000;01110111;01100001;01111001;00100111;01110011;00100000;01100001;01110111
;01100001;01111001;00100000;01100110;01110010;01101111;01101101;00100000;01101101;01100101
;01100011;01100011;01100001;00101110

David Wood said...

Anyone here speak binary?

Unknown said...

Osama:

Aside from the fact that u havent really replied to the rest of the question, which seems to me either u agree or u dont have a what to say !!, but are u serious u havent read that in the quran ?! Why dont you review Surah 52, Verse 4 , along with its commenteries specially Ibn kathir.

So after u review it, come back !!

Unknown said...

look at what ehtesham doing, he couldnt prove that Abrham built the Kabbaa, so here is his reasoning:

1: faith !! great nothing wrong, but this is a physical thing, so if u want to belive evey physical thing through face, u will end up having a distorted image of the whole world, like saying u have faitht that it was a muhammed who built the empire state, ignoring all the world reords !! that is not faith , sorry !! just agreeing to what a person claims milleniums laer after Abrhama with no single proff, meanwhile all the evidenc against him, this is not Faith !!

2: Genetics !! wow
Look at the arab he used to give as an example, syria lebanon ..etc , are those by anyway where muhamed came from ?!or u are just metioning the arabs who surrounded Israel ?! , So , though I dont think that genetics helps with anything in this issue, however it further disagree with what the quran claims !!

Unknown said...

Ehtesham: wilderness of Paran is in Sinai
check this map here:
http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/20020429.htm

peace

Charlie said...

There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who know binary and those who dont

Unknown said...

Osama:

to make ur life easier check this link:

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1709&Itemid=108

"...Al-Bayt Al-Ma`mur is parallel to the Ka`bah..."

So I guess, Now afte 14 century what would muhammed say about the fact that earth rotates aroud itself, and around the sun ?! Does Al byt Al maumur rotates as well to follow the kabba ?! why will muslim keep pilgriming to Kabba, i guess it is not pallell or in line any more with Al bay Al mamur ?!

Sepher Shalom said...

Ehteshaam said: "Have you also ever noticed that Arabs (from Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, etc) and Jews look alike? This is because they have the same genes--- they both hail from Abraham"

Keep in mind that you are mentioning Levantine ethnic groups when you mention Palestine, Lebanon, and Syria, whereas Muhammad comes from an Arabian peninsula gene pool.

Intermarriage between groups that live in geographically close areas is the normal pattern throughout history. Thus, we would expect Levantine ethnic groups to share some ancestry. Also, keep in mind that many Jews in the diaspora were absorbed into ethnic groups that are now majority Muslim. That is, many Levantine Muslims have Jewish ancestry and don't even know it.

These are a number of factors you may not have considered when looking at the genetic haplogroups of Levantine populations. But still, to prove ancestry for Muhammad you would need to focus on groups in the Arabian peninsula proper. And even then, you might not want to claim decent from Ishmael as some sort of bragging right when it's written about Ishmael and his descendants:

"“He will be a wild donkey of a man, his hand will be against everyone, and everyone’s hand will be against him; and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” (Genesis 16:12)

Anthony Rogers said...

Osama,

Regarding Shafsha's reference to the alignment of the Inhabited House and the Ka'bah:

There are Hadith that relate this idea, though I myself don't know exactly where (though I am fairly confident it is not in the collections of Bukhari, Muslim, or Dawud). I do know that I have a book here by Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, Forotten Aspets of Islamic Worship: Part 1 (As-Sunna Foundation of America), that says:

"The following section is a collection of the hadith on al-isra wa al-miraj by Muhammad Alawi Maliki of Makka..."

After quoting Maliki's compilation at length, Shaykh Kabbani continues the quote with:

"Every day seventy thousand angels enter the Inhabited House, who shall never return to it until the Day of Resurrection. The angels who have entered it never see it again. This House is exactly superimposed over the Kabah. If one stone fell from it, it would fall on top of the Kabah." (p. 88)

Hope that helps.

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

Usually I don't respond to polemic stuff like this anymore-- but this time I just had to------

Shafsa,

What evidence is there that Jesus, Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses existed? According to modern scholars there is little to none (especially when it comes to Jesus). Its bulit on FAITH. We Muslims and Christians believe it--- we have faith in God and his messengers. WE HAVE FAITH about Jesus, Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses-- until someone finds all the evidence that these indivduals actually existed-- we are going to have to rely on faith.

See the reason Why I am a Muslim and why I have become more and more devoted to Spreading and defending the word of Islam-- because Yes, its a religion of FAITH-- but there is also the mass evidence there for it (which I will discuss some other time). Until someone finds a way to dismiss all the evidence for Islam-- (and all attempts have failed) I am forever a Muslim and continue to spend my spare time and money on Islamic preaching.

Again, yes the Arabs and Jews are related--- plus read any biography of Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him)-- his genelogies go back to Prophet Ishmael.

As for Paran being Siani, that is actually incorrect-- Paran is none other than Arabia:

http://ihashim1.www8.50megs.com/

Oh and Sepher Shamlom-- sorry I couldn't get back at you-- could I email back later-- I am actually trying to work on my website-- that is why I have been so busy--

As for what you said about intermarriage-- even if that is true-- The Arabs and Jews are still related.

According to The Times (9 May 2000), Jews and Arabs United by Genes, The Journal of Babylonian ExilArch [Online Document] it says:

“…both Arabs and Jews owe their genes to a common ancestor population that predated the Jewish religion.”

In America-- Palestines, Labenese, Syrians, are considered WHITE-- the reason not being because they look white-- but because they are genetically linked to Jews.

I have many Arab friends from all over including Palestine, Labanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc--- they all look very much like white people so it makes sense that the Arabs and Jews are related. How else do you explain this?

It goes like this--- Arabs come from Ishmael while the Jews come from Isaac.

As for the Bible verse, doesn't it also say in the Bible that God will bless Ishmael and make his people into a great nation in Genesis 21:17-21? Why didn't you also quote that Sepher?

Forever Yours in Islam
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

Forgot to mention this site:

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2000/20000828.htm

It says that Although Arabia was inhabited by a variety of tribes - Ishmaelites, Arabians, Idumeans, Horites, and Edomites - they eventually intermingled, becoming identified together as Arabs.

Thanks,
Ehteshaam Gulam

David Wood said...

Ehteshaam,

Could you please name me a single respected Historical Jesus scholar who doubts His existence? Just one?

I'm telling you, friend, you've been spending too much time at infidels.org. Then you come here and present their views as authoritative scholarship. So I'm asking you to back up your claim with the words of actual scholars.

Do you know what happens when scholars apply the methods of infidels.org to Muhammad? Ask Muhammad Sven Kalisch, a Muslim scholar who applied the hyperskeptical methodology and concluded that Muhammad never existed.

Sepher Shalom said...

Osama said: "My profile's icon is still better than Nabeel's icon of the blonde-haired and blue-eyed English Jesus Christ :-). You're so ashamed of how he originally looked that you have to alter even his ethnic looks. Alterations and fabrications are a must have in your faith, I guess, right? Even pictures have to be changed!"

Osama, what on earth are you talking about? Nabeel's icon is of someone with brown hair, you can't see His eyes, you can't see His face, you certainly can't ascertain He is English. Furthermore, there have always been Jews with blond hair and blue eyes, in the same way there are Syrians, or Lebanese with blond hair and blue eyes. Seriously, you obsess about some of the most ridiculous things. Are you offended if someone depicts Yeshua as a black man too? Or is it only pictures of blond haired blue eyed Englishmen that offend you?

Fernando said...

Young Ehteshaam: do you realyy habe doubts on the existence off Jesus? I hoppe those wolves on your wolfpack will gibe you an advivce: sheck out a psychiatrist: nowadsys there are great medical drugs to deal withe paranoia... sorry iff this offends you, butt is the reallity: you do live on another planet, a planett creatted by mohammad and his false claims that intoxicatte the minds off his followers...

Fernando said...

The Osama The Great Abdalla... I'm sorry, butt Abraham and the son he had withe a egoist slabe did neber builtt that house to cover an meteorite that is envolved in a vagina-like support... that story was invented in order to justiffy an pagan actitude, and you know thate... which testimonies do you habe for thate claim appart from those muhammad did?

The Bible do praises the actitude off bowing toward the house off God (the place where He saide to bee present in a speciall way), nott due to the house in itself, butt to the One who claimed, several times an to several testimonies, to be there... in the OT, suposedely the fact the kabah was already in existence according to the will off God, God do nott askes to bow to the kabah (which the authors off the OT do nott eben know aboutt), butt to the Jerusalem Temple thate was empty: itt had no peteorite from space worshipped by pagans who had neber heard abboutt Abraham...

butt after Jesus this all changed: He sayd, and several testimonies do express this reallity, thate He was the New and Eternal temple... no more any human-made "house" woulde bee needed... to sad thate muslims do nott acknoledge this reality...

Unknown said...

Ehteesham Said:

[What evidence is there that Jesus, Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses existed? According to modern scholars there is little to none (especially when it comes to Jesus). Its bulit on FAITH. We Muslims and Christians believe it--- we have faith in God and his messengers. WE HAVE FAITH about Jesus, Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses-- until someone finds all the evidence that these indivduals actually existed-- we are going to have to rely on faith. ]

Sir, havent u heard of historical methods?! how do a historian investigatate a case ?!
So u are comparing yyour quran which is sort of fairly tales, telling stories of things happened thousands of years before muhammed, to books that were written within the time frame of the event !!! it is like igoring all historial books and then re-writing history with new concepts , and u accept it by faith !! u can do the same thing to all sort of things, like u can say u have strong faitht that Budda was muslim, and pilgrimmed the Kabba, and u will trust it if muhammed said that !! i think I will trust the chinese literature, as I am going to trust the jews !!

[See the reason Why I am a Muslim and why I have become more and more devoted to Spreading and defending the word of Islam-- because Yes, its a religion of FAITH]

Strong faith in what Sir ?! all muslims just ignore embarassing facts and embarrasing sharia, and u call that faith ?!! u ignore all historical evidences and u call that faith ?!! I agree that islam gives a lot to a muslim, especially fun with women !! so if u preach the truth of islam and how muhamed preached that would be more realistic !!

[As for Paran being Siani, that is actually incorrect-- Paran is none other than Arabia:

http://ihashim1.www8.50megs.com/ ]

Sif, dont u feel ashamed when quoting me such an anonymous website ?! is this by anyway is authentic source to take information from ?!

[Again, yes the Arabs and Jews are related]
1: I doubt it !! a saudi arabian is more black thick haired, unlike people from arounf Israel

2: it proves nothing to your case. It is like sayingthe Jews were in Egypt, and geneticaly related to the Egytians, so you will make a conclusion they built the Pyramids or the sphinx !!



peace

Yahya Hayder Seymour said...

David Wood,

Kalisch is not a Historian or a specialist in Historical Muhammad, his field is the development of the Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence. Why on earth would you keep referring to him as if he is a specialist in Muhammadology?

Haecceitas said...

"What evidence is there that Jesus, Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses existed? According to modern scholars there is little to none (especially when it comes to Jesus)."

This is completely backwards. Surely the evidence for the existence of Jesus is much better than the evidence for the others in your list. And this holds regardless of one's scepticism concerning the evidence for Jesus. In comparative terms, the other figures on your list will always be on a shakier historical ground. I doubt that you can can mention a single widely respected scholar who doubts the existence of Jesus, but even if you can, it should be obvious that the arguments that such scholar might use against the historicity of Jesus are applicable to those other figures as well, and given how the historical sources for them are weaker in quality and quantity, the resultant view will be even more sceptical concerning their existence.

David Wood said...

Yahya said: "Kalisch is not a Historian or a specialist in Historical Muhammad, his field is the development of the Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence. Why on earth would you keep referring to him as if he is a specialist in Muhammadology?"

You missed the point entirely, my friend. Ehteshaam keeps referring to people like Richard Carrier, whose field of expertise has nothing to do with the Historical Jesus (it's early Roman science!). Then Ehteshaam quotes people like Carrier and makes it sound as if his views are the pinnacle of Historical Jesus scholarship. But Carrier isn't a Historical Jesus scholar, and no respected Historical Jesus scholar on the planet would agree with his conclusion that Jesus probably never existed.

I keep telling Ehteshaam this, but he just doesn't get it. So I try to draw a parallel. If he's going to point to a hyperskeptical scholar who goes against the tide of actual scholarship and pretend that this person's views are authoritative, why not do the same with someone like Kalisch? You know as well as I do that Kalisch's conclusion is absolutely silly. But that's the point. I'm trying to get Ehteshaam to see that silly reasoning leads to silly conclusions whether we're dealing with Christianity or Islam.

Do you have a better way of pointing out Ehteshaam's inconsistency? (I'm assuming you would agree with me that it's absurd to say, based on historical investigation, that Jesus may have never existed.)

Yahya Hayder Seymour said...

I know this is off topic, but I must state for the record that the evidence for Muhammad's (SAW) existence outweighs the evidence for that of Jesus' (as). However yes, I do believe that we can be certain that Jesus (as) Historically existed without relying on the Qur'an (I make that disclaimer because I know Ali Ataie claimed otherwise).

minoria said...

All this talk about evidence and faith.Well,as time has passed real archeological evidence has appeared confirming the Bible.

They discovered 2 inscriptions that show DAVID really existed,another showing PONTIUS PILATE really existed,another that in all probabilty shows CAIAPHAS really existed.

I added in another section extra details of an archeological nature that PETER really existed,even probably LUKE.

Even Richard Carrier,as far as I know, is certain that PAUL existed.And I think Robert Price also.They both think Jesus may not have existed.But,and this is very important,they say they could be wrong.There are not as stubborn as a Kentucky mule about it.

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

David Wood is a Boss.

David Wood said: Could you please name me a single respected Historical Jesus scholar who doubts His existence? Just one?

My Response: Sure. G.A. Wells, Earl Doherty, Bruno Bauer, David Strauss, William Wrede. Thats all I can think of right now, but I'll try to do more research on this.

David Wood said: I'm telling you, friend, you've been spending too much time at infidels.org. Then you come here and present their views as authoritative scholarship. So I'm asking you to back up your claim with the words of actual scholars.

My Response: Not really. I only like two people on infidels.org-- Richard Carrier and Keith Parsons. The other people, I don't really care about. I don't think that I ever posted any of their material here-- if I did please show an example. Oh wait-- I think I did once-- Richard Carrier's response to Romans 8:11. Thats the only time I posted any of the infidels.org material here. I don't even post their material on my site (except for a few times).

David Wood said: Do you know what happens when scholars apply the methods of infidels.org to Muhammad? Ask Muhammad Sven Kalisch, a Muslim scholar who applied the hyperskeptical methodology and concluded that Muhammad never existed.

My Response: All scholars agree that Prophet Muhammad existed. You should read this:

http://aidanmaconachyblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/did-prophet-muhammad-really-exist.html

Read the last quote. Scholars agree that Prophet Muhammad existed-- he is buried in Madina. This arguement is so silly. This is why I didn't respond when MJ brought this up in our debate-- I thought it was sort of a waste to discuss it due to time restrictions.

David, My friend, My point is NOT to get into a debate with you (since I know I am going to lose if I debate you again), rather my point is both of our religions require faith. We have faith that God exists (although we believe in different aspects of God). We have faith in Angels, Satan, Demons (aka Jinns). We have faith that Adam and Eve existed (since evolution has now been proven. My point is in order to believe in either Christianity or Islam-- you need faith. As a Christian You need faith to believe The Virgin Birth, you need faith to believe the resurrection, you need faith to believe the miracles of Jesus, etc.

And as a Muslim I need faith to believe that Prophet Muhammad went to Jerusalem and then the heavens, etc. But the difference between Islam and Christianity is Islam can prove its claims while Christianity really can't.

As for the historical record of Jesus in the first century-- if you go back and listen to our debate or my debate with MJ-- I explain why we really can't trust Joesphus and Tatitus. I believe the fact that there were 60 historians in the 1st Century Roman world-- yet only two historians mention our friend J.C. is troubling-- at least to me.

On a side note-- you HAVE to stop these rumors David. Its getting bad. Someone by the name of Mannypatel 1 keeps messaging me on youtube about this rumor-- its getting annoying. If I were you I would stop it-- or a lot of Muslims are going to find out-- and its not going be good. Muslims are GREAT at spreading rumors. Trust me at our Mosque-- rumors and gossip about others spread like fire. I'll do what I can to control MannyPatel-- but you should step up, David.

Forever yours in Islam,
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

David Wood said...

Ehteshaam said: "Sure. G.A. Wells, Earl Doherty, Bruno Bauer, David Strauss, William Wrede. Thats all I can think of right now, but I'll try to do more research on this."

G.A. Wells--Dead
Earl Doherty--Not a Scholar at All (and Certainly not a Respected Scholar)
Bruno Bauer--Died in the 1800s, didn't he?
David Strauss--Died in the 1800s
William Wrede--Died in the early 1900s

Ehteshaam, you know, don't you, that there are hundreds of respected Historical Jesus scholars in the world today? Don't you find it odd that every single one of them completely rejects your position? Do you think you're being reasonable when you pretend that scholars reject Jesus' existence, and that, when challenged to back up your claim, you present us with four dead scholars and one living layman?

You say all scholars grant Muhammad's existence. Nonsense! Using your criteria, it's quite easy to show that Muhammad never existed.

I've already noted Muhammad Sven Kalisch's skepticism about Muhammad.

What about Acharya S? Here's the article:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/islam.htm

And Robert Spencer has said, "From a strictly historical standpoint, it is impossible to state with certainty even that a man named Muhammad actually existed."

Now Ehteshaam, there are only two ways to be consistent here. You must either say that scholarship rejects the existence of Muhammad (as you say about Jesus), or you must accept the historicity of Jesus (as you accept Muhammad). The only alternative is to do what you're doing now-- namely, accepting the most radical, unscholarly writings criticizing Christianity, and demanding careful scholarship regarding Islam.

Radical Moderate said...

David Wood, dont forget every muslim appolgest favorite scholar, Bart Ehrman. Not only does he say its a absolute historical fact that Jesus existed but it is also a absolute historical fact that Jesus was crucified.

David Wood said...

Well, if you're going to totally reject all modern scholarship and conclude that Jesus never died, I guess it makes sense to totally reject all modern scholarship and conclude that Jesus never lived.

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

Maybe Jesus died. Maybe he didn't. However it doesn't invalidate the Quran. Hopefully in my next debate I'll do better in explaining why.

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

Christians want to play in the realm of science.

Christians WANT to say we have evidence for our beliefs. Okay. What is it? I am listening.

Until someone finds a way to prove Christianity (especially the resurrection and reliablity of the Gospels) and disprove all the evidence for Islam (science in the Quran, miracles/prophcies of Prophet Muhammad) -- I am still a Muslim.

If you have faith in Christianity-- I can't help you. But if you want to prove it--- go ahead and try.

Yours in Islam
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

David Wood said...

Ehteshaam,

You still don't get it. When someone is willing to change his methodology as he goes along, it's impossible to prove anything. Suppose I decide to be exceedingly skeptical when it comes to Muhammad. Is there anything that could even potentially convince me that he was a prophet? No. Is there anything that can convince a hyperskeptic that God exists? No.

Imagine, for a moment, that an angel appears to a hyperskeptic and says, "Believe in the one true God." The hypersketpic would simply say, "Oh well, I must be hallucinating." Get it? Any evidence can be explained away if you don't want to believe it.

When you investigate Christianity, you suddenly adopt the position of a hyperskeptic (a position you would never hold when approaching Islam). Even if every scholar on the planet says you're wrong, you'll simply say, "There's no evidence at all." And now you're saying, "Now prove to me--a hyperskeptic--that Christianity is true." But that's impossible.

Until you drop your inconsistent and unreasonable approach, evidence is meaningless. Nothing could convince you of anything except what you already believe. The solution is to drop your unreasonable skepticism and to adopt a better methodology.

Unknown said...

Osama, I just wanted to tell u Hi!!

are u Ok ?! I havent heard back from u ?! if u think we are true, I would invite u to encourage all muslims to stop Pilgrims, and destroy the Ka'abah, thx

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

To David Wood:

Yeah I understand what your saying now. You have a good point. I think your point is this: If you reject Christianity according to your critical views-- your critical views can also disprove your faith in Islam.

David Wood said: When you investigate Christianity, you suddenly adopt the position of a hyperskeptic (a position you would never hold when approaching Islam). Even if every scholar on the planet says you're wrong, you'll simply say, "There's no evidence at all." And now you're saying, "Now prove to me--a hyperskeptic--that Christianity is true." But that's impossible.

My Response: Not really. Want to know something about me? I only started following Islam 6 years ago. Before then, I believed in nothing. Again I am willing to listen to Christians. I am willing to sit down and listen to what they have to say (something 98% of Muslims would never do). Heck I'll even pay Christians if they want me to. I am willing to look at the evidence for Christianity-- I am always willing to listen to you and Nabeel Qureshi (even when it disagrees with Islam).

But the point is all the evidence doesn't really impress me. The evidence for Islam-- to me its solid.

Its not to say there is nothing good in Christianity. I think there are a lot of good things in Christianity-- turning the other cheek, speaking truth, being kind to others, having faith, celibacy (although it is unnatural), etc. But again I am not going to believe something until I see good evidence for it. I am not going to believe Hinduism because Hindus have good teachings. I am not going to convert to Judaism, because they are the Chosen People or because there are good things in the Torah. Get my point, David?
Just because these three religions have good things in them-- doesn't mean I am going to seriously consider converting to one of them.

To you Dave, it may be about the faith (and to another degree the historical record)-- but to me it is about the evidence. Four years back I studied Christianity believe it or not. I read the Gospels. I read the works of some scholars. I went a local church near where I lived and spoke to many Christians there along with the pastor. I don't hate Christians. I love Christians. I spend my spare time talking to Christians on a semi-regular basis. Its just I don't believe in Christianity because I don't believe there is real good evidence for it. The historical record of Jesus and his crucifixion-- may be solid-- but in order to believe Christianity you HAVE to believe in the resurrection of our mutual friend J.C. If its proven no ressurection-- then its over for Christianity. Christianity falls apart like a house of cards.

The problems that I ran across are these:

1) No good evidence for the resurrection

2) No good reasosn to trust what the gospels say.

We can talk more David Wood, you can contact me anytime you want, right now I have to focus on transferring out of Eastern Michigan University (since I hate that school)-- But I just wanted to let you know why I am saying what I've been saying for the past few days.

I've enjoyed our discussions, and hopefully down the road we can discuss the issues (such as the evidence for Prophethood of Muhammad (p), other issues that bother you about Prophet Muhammad-- why the Gospels are not historical biographies, scientific miracles in the Quran, etc) some other time.

Yours in Islam
Ehteshaam Gulam
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com

Fernando said...

Young Ehteshaam the Clown say: «Muslims are GREAT at spreading rumors»... yep, and lies, and falsities, and threadds, and violence...

Iff you use the argument off 60 to 2 historians, then please, please, as I stated here many times (doo you habe somme problem in learnning the truthe?) thate eben more historians contemporrary to muhammad neber spokke off him... some off them from Arabia itselff...

neber the less, obtusus as you are, you'll do the same claim again, and again...


And why do you insist thate ALL schoolars do agree in the fact muhammad libed? are your mind inmune to facts and ebdences?

Justt some names thate denied, in somme sort off another, his existence:

* Muhammad Sven Kalisch
* Lutzian Klimovitch
* John Wansbrough
* Khristos Morozov
* Theodor W. Juynboll

so: justte ONE off these names was enought to deny your claim... neber the less, obtusus as you are, you'll do the same claim again, and again...

David Wood said...

Fernando,

No name-calling please. (You don't need it!)

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

But know this-- I would never ever debate Is Muhammad (p) a prophet of God. Even if I get paid a lot to do it-- I wouldn't do it. Its impossible to debate.

Fernando said...

Doctor Wood saide: «Fernando, No name-calling please»...

yes, you're, off course, absolutelly right... I was totally over the line...

I already know thate "Clown" is a more strongue word in english than in the language I use...

so: to all I say thate I regret what I dis and I'll refrainne to do itt again... iff I do itt again you justte habe to point it out to mee and I'll leabe this God blessed blog...

sorry to all off you, specially Young Ehteshaam (eben when I still do nott undestand your lack off capacitty to deal withe the truth in an logical way)...

Fernando said...

I post here my ante-previous comment withe the rectification thate I feel I habe to do... never the less, I won't take off line the previous one. Nott to offend anyone, rather to express my humble contriction and testimony to the fact I was wrong and I recognize thate...


Young Ehteshaam say: «Muslims are GREAT at spreading rumors»... yep, and lies, and falsities, and threats, and violence...

Iff you use the argument off 60 to 2 historians, then please, please, as I stated here many times (doo you habe somme problem in learnning the truthe?) thate eben more historians contemporrary to muhammad neber spokke off him... some off them from Arabia itselff...

neber the less, resilient to the truth as you are, you'll do the same claim again, and again...


And why do you insist thate ALL schoolars do agree in the fact muhammad libed? are your mind inmune to facts and ebdences?

Justt some names thate denied, in somme sort off another, his existence:

* Muhammad Sven Kalisch
* Lutzian Klimovitch
* John Wansbrough
* Khristos Morozov
* Theodor W. Juynboll

so: justte ONE off these names was enought to deny your claim... neber the less, resilient to the truth as you are, you'll do the same claim again, and again...

Unknown said...

Ehteshaam Gulam said...
But know this-- I would never ever debate Is Muhammad (p) a prophet of God. Even if I get paid a lot to do it-- I wouldn't do it. Its impossible to debate.


WOW !! then how will u preach for islam (Dawa)?! may be with Sowrd ?! or Marriage ?!

anyway thx for showing us how strong is your Islam !!

Royal Son said...

Ehteshaam : Are you saying that you wouldn't debate the prophethood of Mohammad because there is no good solid evidence for it ?

By the way, did you re-read the entry in the New Advent encyclopedia about Joseph and Mary as I recommended ?

Osama Abdallah said...

"Osama:

Aside from the fact that u havent really replied to the rest of the question, which seems to me either u agree or u dont have a what to say !!, but are u serious u havent read that in the quran ?! Why dont you review Surah 52, Verse 4 , along with its commenteries specially Ibn kathir.

So after u review it, come back !!"

Here is what Noble Verse 52:4 says:

‏52:4 والبيت المعمور

[052:004] And the House (Kaaba) that is visited,

What is wrong with this Noble Verse?

You asked me to visit Ibn Kathir's translation, I visited it and saw nothing of what you say:

http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?nType=1&bm=&nSeg=0&l=arb&nSora=52&nAya=4&taf=KATHEER&tashkeel=1


By the way, even if you could find in some tafsir something weird or absurd that is scientifically refuted, this doesn't mean that it is the Noble Quran's fault or the Prophet's for the following reasons:

1- The absurdity is not in the Noble Quran, and wasn't mentioned by the Prophet.

2- Much of the writings and volumes such as Ibn Kathir, Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and others WERE WRITTEN BY THEIR STUDENTS AND THEIR STUDENTS' STUDENTS. So, it is quite possible that mere oppinion, and not a verbatim quote, was inserted in there.

Think of this as the Rabbis' and Church ministers' and fathers' translations, interpretations and explanations of the Bible, and the SCIENCE OF THE BIBLE, where almost everything they said was wrong. Not that the Bible is the Word of GOD Almighty, but my point is that you couldn't fault Allah Almighty for their wrong teachings and writings.

So for you to say that the Quran Says this or that and then we find out that It doesn't say anything even close to it, makes you a deceiver if you've done it intentionally.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com



Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Unknown said...

Osama:

Sorry, on what basis u r refuting the Hadith and commenteries ?! Just because it doesnt line up witht the scientific facts ?! great.. thats what we are saying !!

ook at what Osama is Doing:

He is not refuting our claims, he is refuting His islamic Hadith and all great commentators !! for me this means the following:

1: Your prophet was liar when he said the hadiths (mentioned in the commenteries) about The inhabited House

2: You quran is not understandably, and not in clear language as it claims, so that no-one has understood it the right way all 14 centuries. And muslims will start (under your leadership) about the definition of the inhabited house ! wheather it is in heaven or the Kabba!!

for u u have no refernce for your claims , except it is just against scientific facts, butothers are backed up by huge amount of great mulsim commentries , so who should we trust then

3- You are indirectly telling us dont trust any hadith or commentireis, cause they contain errors and mistake

4: u said it was written by students, then who wrote the quran and colected it?! werent those the same students ?! so the quran is not reliable as well

5: I think you will need to update the commenteries and tafseer every one in a while to line up with scientific facts, so we should be expecting Ibn Kathir version 2.1 this year to be free from errors !! as the rest are outdated!!

So why bother ourseves, reading a book that has no meaning ?!

Anyway, I encourage you to through these unreliable sources that u menioned in the garbage

Thanks

Unknown said...

By the way the absurdity was mentioned by the prophet, review he arabic version of Tafseer, where it says cleary the hadith, sorry thas not an excuse!

Andlet us know the criteria by which u knew that this was written by students of students and not Ibn Kathir himself, did it mention that anywhere ?!

Unknown said...

Osama: u said u havent seen what we said, and it wasnt mentioned by the prophet , really ?!

Ok why dont you translate this for instance :

عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال " في السماء السابعة بيت يقال له المعمور بحيال الكعبة

and this:

عن خالد بن عرعرة أن رجلا قال لعلي ما البيت المعمور ؟ قال بيت في السماء يقال له الضراح وهو بحيال الكعبة من فوقها حرمته في السماء كحرمة البيت في الأرض يصلي فيه كل يوم سبعون ألفا من الملائكة

and read this in the same tafsir:

أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال يوما لأصحابه" هل تدرون ما البيت المعمور ؟ " قالوا الله ورسوله أعلم قال " فإنه مسجد في السماء بحيال الكعبة لو خر لخر عليها يصلي فيه كل يوم سبعون ألف ملك إذا خرجوا منه لم يعودوا آخر ما عليهم " وزعم الضحاك أنه يعمره طائفة من الملائكة يقال لهم الجن من قبيلة إبليس فالله أعلم .


Sorry, but I have to say what u r doing, is either ignorance of arabic language ( which I really doubt) or COMPLETE DECEPTION (which is allowed in islam)

Fernando said...

Brother shafsha, withe a gret insight saide to The Osama The Great Abdallah: «u said it was written by students, then who wrote the quran and colected it?! werent those the same students ?! so the quran is not reliable as well»...

touché!!!

Fernando said...

Brother shafsha... all those exegisis you presentted in arabic speak off the house off God in the sky... do they not?? I'm learning arabic for the past 9 months, butt I still habe problems...

Unknown said...

Brother Fernando:

[all those exegisis you presentted in arabic speak off the house off God in the sky... do they not??]

Oh, yes. All these quotations are from the same link (Al-islam.com) which Osama presented to us, saying that there is nothing mentioned about this house in heaven parallel to Kabaa.

Actually I was shocked!! cause this link Osama provided contained 3-4 hadiths at least all about this heavenly house in line with Kabbaa !! and thats just one Tafseer !! so I realy dont understand what Osama was trying to Do ?! was he lying to us, to prove his religion is right ?! was he using the ignorance of the arabic language for some ppl here, in order to justify his position ?!

So someone is wrong in this chain:
1: the prophet
2: ppl in th cahian of narration
3: Commenteries
4: Osama

Osama chose the commentator and those who wrote it, but unfortunately on NO BASIS !!

I would encourage anyone to translate the same link Osama provided , and if Osama was lying, then he should be charged for this !

Unknown said...

ok, since it is the 3rd day, and Osama is not willing to translate the 3 arabic passages i quoted from the link he provided which is in Ibn Kathir original arabic trafseer, let me put the translation here, to show Osama's Deception, and also it might help others:

1:
عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال " في السماء السابعة بيت يقال له المعمور بحيال الكعبة "

means:
"The Prophet (PBUH) said in the seventh heaven there is house called the inhabited house (Albayt Al Maamour) parallel to / In line with the Kaaba..."

2:

"عن خالد بن عرعرة أن رجلا قال لعلي ما البيت المعمور ؟ قال بيت في السماء يقال له الضراح وهو بحيال الكعبة من فوقها حرمته في السماء كحرمة البيت في الأرض يصلي فيه كل يوم سبعون ألفا من الملائكة"

means:

"Khalid Ibn Arara said, that a man asked Ali: what is the inhabited house? he said: a house in heaven called (Al dorah) and it is in line with / parallel to the Kaba, its Holiness in heaven , is the like the holiness of Kaaba on earth, everyday 70 thousand angles pray there .."


3:

أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال يوما لأصحابه" هل تدرون ما البيت المعمور ؟ " قالوا الله ورسوله أعلم قال " فإنه مسجد في السماء بحيال الكعبة لو خر لخر عليها يصلي فيه كل يوم سبعون ألف ملك إذا خرجوا منه لم يعودوا آخر ما عليهم " وزعم الضحاك أنه يعمره طائفة من الملائكة يقال لهم الجن من قبيلة إبليس فالله أعلم .

" The prophet one day asked gis companions, do you know what is the inhabited house? they answered: Allah and his Prophet know ! He said: it is a a mosque n heaven in line with the Kaaba, if it ( the inhabited house) is going to fall, it falls on it (the Kaaba), everyday 70 thousands Angels pray ih it, if they went out of it, they dont go back. And the Dahak said, it is inhabited by angels called the Jins, which is from Iblees (satan) tribe, and Allah Knows !"


..................

So conclusion: Since the Kaaba, is not anymore in line with this assumed house, I strongl urge Osama and every muslim, to stop this pagan practice, and behaving like their pagan ancestors blindly, and to cancel this and delete it from the five pillars, and Muslims should be the first to destroy the Kaaba !!

Unknown said...

Please google image of the black stone in the Kabba:

here is a picture for instance:

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/saudi-arabia/images/mecca/resized/mecca-black-stone-cc-toursaudiarabia.jpg

Do u know what this looks like ?!
Farj of women (external genitalia)

And this was mentioned by muslim scholars (not just me)

1: Abi Al Kasem Al-shahrestany in his book (Al melal wa Al nehal) p 247 : said: there was a weird ritual practised, where they (piligrims) rubs themselves against the black stone !

2: Dr. Sayed Al Kemny (Who recently won the Egyptian National Award for his literature) in his book (The Myth and heritage part2) p127 said: The stone was originally white but it blackened out from the blood of menstruation in the pre-islamic period!

Fernando said...

brother shafsha, alway rich on information quoted an egyptioan person saying: «The stone was originally white but it blackened out from the blood of menstruation in the pre-islamic period!»...

huckh... disgusting!!! butt muhammad also liked to cuddle his women when they were menstruating... all pagan practices... islam is disgustting from its core... only muslims do nott wantt to accept this reallity!!!

Unknown said...

Brother Fernando :

Since None of the Muslims was able to answer any of our pints about Kabba (Even Osama), so Lets Switch Gears here.I truly believe that Muhammed was a mensis addict !! why:

1: He Had sex with his menstruating wives, even in pilgrim !! meanwhile he ordered muslims in Qur'an 2:222 not to get close to their wives during their period, as mensis is Haram !!! (so again double standard)

2: He used to clean himself from Bedaa Well, which was used to get rid of wastes and Blood of mensis !!. And as we all Know a well is a stagnant water !!

The hadiths are mentioned here:
http://answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Inconsistent/menstruation.htm

3: He kissed the disgusting Black stone !!

ubiquitouserendipity said...

david/nabeel ~ any updates re: the radio show? G_d bless you. Peace, in His love, papajoe

Brian said...

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