Tuesday, June 30, 2009

Sam Shamoun vs. Farhan Qureshi: "The Trinity in the Old Testament"

25 comments:

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

It was a pleasure knowing both Sam Shamoun and Farhan Qureshi.

Semper Paratus said...

Ehteshaam,

That sounds like part of a eulogy.

Anyway, what did/do you think of their debate?

Bfoali said...

I read so much about Sam Shamoun on Ossama Abdullahs website, on Nadir Ahmads website, and when I finally heard his voice from a debate he had with Sami Zaatari I was so scared. Not because its an ugly voice, but because its such a amazing voice, so seeing him debate live is crazyyyyyyy.

Fernando said...

Great job brother Shamoun!!! I really was amazed with yore knowledge...

strange, though, thate doctor Qureshi (who revealed to me a bery sympathique person... misguided, butt sympathique) accepted to debate this topic despitte (according to him) not knowing bery well the jewish sources...

OumAmir said...

No, seriously, Sam Shamoun is my hero.

minoria said...

Aaah,Rabbi Singer again.Yes,I know him.He sometimes affirms things in his website that are technically incorrect.He says that "and they pierced my hands and feet" in Psalms 22 is a Christian invention.Practically a mistruth that's an intentional forgery.

But as Michael Brown,the Messianic Jew, pointed out:1.The earliest copy of Psalms 22 is from 100 BC and Qmran and it has "pierced".We have it.

2.The Septuagint,the earliest Jewish traslation(250 BC)of the OT,into Greek,has it as "pierced".

3.In about 10 copies of the Massoretic text (1000 AD),a minority amount,true,but still it's there,it's "pierced".In the others it's "lion".The 1000 AD Massoretic texts are the only Hebrew copies between Qmran and in between.A gap of 1,000 years.
Today in the Jewish Bible it is "a lion my hands and feet".The reason is a difference in a diacritical sign that makes the word mean "pierced" and "lion" respectively.

Since the people here like debates,check out Michael Brown's debate with Rabbi Blumofe:

Who is Jesus?

And Rabbi Shmuley Boteach and Brown:
Can Jews Believe in Jesus?

Here's the link:

realmessiah.askdrbrown.org/Watch/Archive.html

The Fat Man said...

Excellent job Mr Shamoun. I especialy liked when you informed Farhan Quershi that he is a Unitarian Monotheist.

Bartimaeus said...

As usual Sam was terrifuc. Ferhan seems like a very nice young man but he was in over his head. I hope Ferhan than rgat you do some day see the truth of the gospel and embrass Christ

Dk said...

Farhan asked Sam:

"What evidence do you have to say this is a distinct person other than semantics?"

HA HA

That part was funny.

Dear Brother Sam,

I have to agree with Farhan, please next time round debate with someone capable of dealing with the evidence you actually present, no doubt a qualifed rabbi will be required to deal with you. oh wait a sec..actually the rabbis can't deal with this as you have already dealt with there arguments aswell..

Farhan time to join the school of Shamoun like the rest of us humble students. =)

Sepher Shalom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sepher Shalom said...

**Previous comment was posted to the wrong thread I will move it when it posts.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Etheshaam wrote:

It was a pleasure knowing both Sam Shamoun and Farhan Qureshi.

Elijah replies:

You are the first muslim I have ever heard appreciating Shamoun. I guess most hate him since he knows his stuff and effectively argues his case. I really admire your attitude, you are an example to most islamic apologists out there.

KeithTruth said...

Farhan appeared devastated in the crossfire section. I think he tried his best but basically had no chance at the get go. Seems like a good guy though. Good debate. Great content.

LouisJ-B said...

Sam Shamoun vs Ali Ataie needs to happen before Jesus comes back

Rafa-el_1 said...

ali ataie isn’t really on the level of sam shamoun and can’t therefore be considered to be a serious contender. I believe however that he ‘won’’ his debate with mike licona. But this was duo the poor performances of mine brother in Christ ‘mike licona’ (I have to be fair)

Bryant said...

This was an excellent debate. Unfortunately, Farhan is not knowledgeable of the OT scriptures and was totally unable to address the individual passages that Sam referred to. You can't just refute the doctrine by claiming that the verses explaining it is ambiguous. Ambiguous to whom? To a Muslim who already has his bias? To me, those verses could not be more clear. Except a Muslim would respond by saying that I have my biases. This is why that sort of argumentation won't work. You have to deal with the verses case by case and explain why they do not prove the Trinity.

I would love to see a debate between Sam and a Rabbi concerning the verses in the Debate. Also, I would have liked to see each debator given more time so that Sam could lay out more of his evidence.

LouisJ-B said:

"Sam Shamoun vs Ali Ataie needs to happen before Jesus comes back."


OHH I could not agree more. That is something I would PAY to see.

Semper Paratus said...

The silence of Muslims on this thread is deafening.

saleh said...

I have watched this debate many times and I feel that Nadir Ahmed should stick to something he is good at. Debating is not one of his strong points.
As a Muslim I feel embarresed to see a person like NA, representing Islam.
I don't see the need to appreciate Sam Shamoun because he was debating with someone whose's knowlege is Islam is limited to reading websites. He has no background at all in a formal Islamic teaching. He can;t even understand Arabic which is a pre requisite for any scholar of Islam.
I do wish to see more debates between Muslims and Christians, however not with the likes of NA.

edwardsrebekah said...

It got a little annoying on Farhan Qureshi's part as it was sad 2 see such empty arguments against Sam's consistent, information-packed points. Farhan continued to repeat questions and answers whereas Sam retaliated with new verses from the Scriptures every time he answered.

Obviously Farhan was scraping the bottom of the barrel with his answers as there is not much to go by as he was wrong!

Farhan kept saying it was ambiguous etc.. but then left it at that with no evidence whereas Sam said points then backed them up with references to the OT.

Brother Sam was great as usual, using his gift from Our God to spread the truth of our Lord and Saviour. May God continue to bless him

jayaramaiah kuppur said...

Sam Shamoun is extraordinary. It looks like the divine has ordained him to speak the truth with unbelievable clarity and with all the humility possible. It is difficult to notice any bias, motivation or emotion in his debates other than commitment to truth. His knowledge of scriptures is phenomenal.
It is a pleasure to go through all the debates made available in this great Website. The debates by David wood are equally impressive. His logical exposition is almost infallible. His zest to convey facts and truth is really impressive. Most of his opponents stray out of topic being unable to counter his pointed references confining to the topic. It is almost an handicap for him as he has to put in a lot of energy to pull the straying opponents back to the topic.
The duo has grasped the divine essence of Gospel and they are unlike other debaters. They possess the capabilities to reach to the truth seeking conscience of all humans irrespective of their religious background. This makes them unique and I hope that many more people will become the recipients of magnificent theological expositions by this amazing duo.

dillo45 said...

Isaiah 55:8-9

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

How can Qureshi claim that he understand God?

Trinity325 said...

I thought Phillo was influenced by Paganism? Some Messianics like Jacob Prasch and Michael Brown, both Trinitarians differ on Phillo in their opinions of him.

Cwradio73 said...

This seems like a waste of time an debate. Who would expect a Muslim to be able to debate the any doctrine from the Old Testament. Sam's arguments were terrific, well thought out. But he should have been up against a rabbi or another Christian with differing beliefs. Muslims say a lot of things regarding the OT, but know nothing about it really. It seems to me a better debate for a Muslim is who is Jesus, the Christ or not.

TheWord said...

Great job Brother Sam!

Alex Toland said...

Ignore: Seeing if I can leave comments