Wednesday, May 13, 2009

Is the Qur'an Miraculous? Abdallah vs. Qureshi

Osama Abdallah vs. Nabeel Qureshi
May 9th, 2009
Coastal Community Church
Virginia Beach, Virginia


Opening Statements




Rebuttals




Crossfires and Conclusion


42 comments:

Fernando said...

Well... in thse videos our friend Ousama Abdallah seames less borderliner... I hope, and I'll pray, he'll keep his momentum to other dimentions off his life...

Doctor Nabeel: another good set of arguments; eben when I think Ousama's (traditional) points are very disapointing...

God bless!!!

ben malik said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Fat Man said...

Dr Nabeel another great presentation. I love the whole medical analogy part.

My favorite quote from Osama when commenting in the Cross X on the sperm between the back bone and the ribs.
"Im not a doctor"

Well evidently niehter was Allah or Mohamed for that matter.

His whole argument that if he breaks his back he wouldnt be able to have children. Sorry Osama, with modern medicine, the mans participation in the creation of a baby is optional. Not to get to graphic but not only is it possible to extract sperm from a parapalagic, it is also possible to extract from a patient who is comotos. Not only is it possible but it is done.

The Fat Man said...

Nabeel, is it just me or did Osama threaten you in his closing? Quoting the quran saysing Allah will smite the liar in the forhead.
I dont understand what he was talking about. How could mohamed know what that allah would smite liars in the forhead? Some how he made the speculation that since allah will smite you in the forhead and cognitive thought is produces in the frontal loabs that this is a miracle?

Bryant said...

Thank God Osama Abdallah represents Islam and not Christianity.

Osama Abdallah said...

"Thank God Osama Abdallah represents Islam and not Christianity."

Indeed, Ameen. Thank GOD Almighty that I am a Muslim and I humbly and sincerely pray to Allah Almighty to die a Muslim. Ameen!

The Fat Man said...

Osama Abdallah said...
"Indeed, Ameen. Thank GOD Almighty that I am a Muslim and I humbly and sincerely pray to Allah Almighty to die a Muslim. Ameen!"

Osama, unless you believe that Jesus is I AM, you will die in your sins.

Rafa-el_1 said...

Osama abdullah,

With all duo respect, but don't you think you should come up with more convincing arguments?

You are using the same (weak) arguments in this debate that you use on your site.

May the Lord of lords and King of kings open your eyes to make you look at these árguments' the same way the rest off us do. Namely tottaly inconsistent, inaccurate and blantly ignorant.



BTW. I don't believe you want to die as a muslim cause according to Surat imran 185 and surat maryam 71all muslims will taste Hell.


It is even recorded in the Qur'an that muhammad wasn't sure about his destiny ( surat 46:9 and in sahih bukhari)

Yet the Qur'an attest to the example muhammad (surat 33;21)

So the 'best example' of humankind doesn't have any insurrence!!

Think again en consider the scriptures before mqaking wishes Osama.

Fernando said...

Osama Abdallah... glade to see you around here agains... let's hoppe these time youre participation will be more lasting. We all would be pleasede withe that. God bless you.

Royal Son said...

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Osama say something like the Qur'an being miraculas is his biggest reason for being a muslim and if someone could refute the miraculous nature of the Qur'an, he would leave islam?

I wonder if he would care to recant that statement.

Nabeel Qureshi said...

Not "if someone could refute that statement" but rather "If someone can show Osama that the statement has been refuted."

The first one has been done over and over again, the second one is impossible.

IslamSINS said...

Osama apologizes for a picture of a sperm penetrating an egg as "graphic"? Has Osama read Islam's texts? Doesn't he find Muhammad's preoccupation with his genitals graphic? Graphic and boring? Graphic, boring, and OCD?

Nabeel addressed the v of where sperm is produced, and it's something that always bothered me with Muslim physicians. They know how squirrely Muhammad's explanation is, yet they are both Muslim and physician; two diametrically opposed positions.

During the rebuttal, Osama treats the sahaba's accounts, as given by Islam's early exegetes, as equivalent to the gnostic "gospels", et. al. heretical books. How did he make that leap? Sura 3.7 says he doesn't have the right to interpret the koran any old way he chooses, but must go to the early scholars of Islam. Since Osama isn't a scholarly representative - early, middle, or late - he doesn't get to rewrite and/or ignore what he can't explain. Shame on his attempted intellectual chicanery.

He also asks, "OK" with the same frequency that adolescents use the word "like", e.g., "I was like, 'no way, man, that is like not true, like you're lying". Very distracting. If his explanations were "OK", wouldn't we all be derriere up, saying something obligatory like, oh, . . . I don't know, . . . maybe like the five ritualistic prayers that Muslims blurt?

Then he lauched into Bible "contradictions" as if his Tu Quoque somehow proved the Quran is "miraculous". How desperate does that make him look?

He should have been stopped when he deviated from the debate topic. I stopped him by fast-forwarding through the rest of his dishonest screed. Shame on you, Abdallah. You have a fine example in Shabir Ally, but you meander all over your pasture of manure, pretending that you've defended your equally dishonest Koran, and refuted Nabeel's indictments against the "miraculous" nature of your book.

"Christians" are followers of Christ, first, those who saw, "That which was from the first, which has come to our ears, and which we have seen with our eyes, looking on it and touching it with our hands, about the Word of life". Christians know that we follow a sinless, holy Christ, who didn't cavort about with women (another repeated cheap-shot by a defeated Muslim). That would be the reprobate, Muhammad, who had no limits on his sexual appetite, nor was he restrained by age, or marriage, or loyalty, or anything even vaguely resembling integrity. Then Muhammad jammed words in his "allah's" mouth which made him an accomplice to the filth, even turning it into sunnah for the benighted Muslims. Osama is equally lacking in integrity, while trying to defend his indefensible death-cult.

Shame on Osama; it will likely be another few years before I allow another of his ignorant and dishonest assaults on my intellect. *BLECH*

Matthew said...

Osama,
conclusions/closing statements are usually not intended for introducing new arguments.

Royal Son said...

This is funny. I'm listening to the Rebuttals section. Osama talks about Sahih Hadiths and rejects Tabari, etc.

But what about Mohammad being choked in the cave? That is from Sahih Al Bukhari, the most trusted Hadith collection.

Nabeel Qureshi said...

So is the fact that Muhammad tried many times to kill himself.

Osama Abdallah said...

Nabeel,

Please check out my latest update that refutes your "Between the Ribs and Breasts" point at:

Sex determination and human creation in Islam
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sex_determination.htm
Thanks,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Yahya Snow said...

I think Abdallah has many interesting points to make but he is hindered by his weak command of English so it can be frustrating listening to him as he does not articulate his points coherently...this frustration is further compounded by my belief that Abdallah has many useful and strong points to make but they get lost in his presentation...so I would suggest people view his website to gain an understanding of his views...personally I feel Abdallah should not be involving himself in oral debates and he is more useful through articles...I do get a feeling that the Christian side do capitalise on his poor articulation and thus score 'easy points'...this is not the best situation for somebody who is honestly looking for the Truth.

Sepher Shalom said...

Yahya,

Really? I think Osama's English is very good. I was under the impression that he learned English as a small child, because even his accent is really good.

Yahya Snow said...

Stepher Shalom...

I am speaking relatively...so I am comparing it to the English of his opponent.

Also I think his opponent is more skilled at doing presentations

But Osama is improving and this is a new thing for him.

His writing skills are very good and you should view his site:

answering-christianity.com

Fernando said...

Yahya Snow saide: «you should view his site»... well; thates like invitting some jew to enter a Nazi site...

Darren said...

Great work Nabeel, may the Peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

Osama had to be proud that the quran it self is full of contradictions e.g six days creation of all the heavens & earth in 10:3, 57:4, 11:7 but, it suddenly claims that all that was created in eight days 41: 9-12, well thats the biggest miracle of the quran.

Osama repeatedly emphasizes on the gosple of judas "kissing of mary", well if he mean that all that is in it is true & he do believes it then according to islam he is the biggest heretic because quran do not teach this about Lord Jesus.

Osama Abdallah said...

My debate with David Wood about "Does the Quran contain Scientific Miracles in It?" can now be downloaded at:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran_miracles_debate_osama_abdallah_vs_david_wood.wmv

I did much much better in my debate with David than in this one. Lack of debate-experience was a major factor.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

STOCK TIPS said...

Muslims probably love to eat goat meat because a goat ate a lot of the original manuscripts from under the pillow of Alisha's bed other than medical reasons. They are so ridiculed by those events but working hard to find cracks in the Bible. But they do not realize that Jesus is the one who overcame the world and death on the cross and our Word is eternal. It will be a waste of time!!!!!

Gavoo said...

Yahya said Osma's English is bad then corrected his englishwas bad only relatively...Whatever the case trying to defend something not defendable is an impossible task as facts will not be there to help them.They have to resort to all kinds of lies and twisting and exaggerations.When somebody does that in public not only his english but his mental stamina also start to disentegrate and that what Yahya saw there.

akhter said...

http://answeringchristians.blogspot.com/2010/01/dove-world-outreach-ministries-replies.html

raoul-keller said...

Hey, is there any chance to see David Woods debate against Osamah entitled "is the quran miraculous"? I just downloaded the moviefile from answeringchristianity, but it is full of Osamahs comments.

Is there anywhere a chance to see it without biasing comments?

Thx.

Austin said...

The Qu'ran declares itself to be inspired because it is so beautiful.

So if were were to write a software program that performed a textural analysis of the Qu'ran, and was able to write surahs (software can now do this it's called Natural Language Processing). We could then see whether people can spot the ones that are supposed to be beautiful.

Oh I forgot can't do that- God only speaks Arabic.

Austin said...

This argument about the Qu'ran is hopelessly flawed.

H.G.Wells was a British Science Fiction writer. His books had remarkable predictions of the future such as sattelites, nuclear weapons, mass communication etc...

Has anyone been tempted to say his books were works of God? No

What about the book "the Wreck of the Titan" written in 1898? It was about a huge ocean liner on its maden voyage, remarkably similar to titanic, which sunk in 1912. The size, description of the ship, the ice-berg, lack of lifeboats, the number of passengers drown were remarkably alike the disaster 14 years later.

Has anyone been tempted to say this book was the work of God? No.

The Qu'ran is far more vague than the predictions of either of these examples. It is difficult to understand, and is open to all sorts of wild interpretation. For this reason I am amazed that anyone is convinced it contains miracles.

I had heard the same arguments as Osama's from Christians, trying to show the Bible predicted TVs, the shape of the earth... but good apologists don't resort to such desperation, we have far better reasons to believe than that.

Osama, look into Jesus. Come and join us!

coolest said...

coolest

I think allah makes a big mistake by challenge his creation to produce a surah like it.

The challenge is already been answered in his own quran by Jinns.

Read surah 72 surah Al Jinn. A whole chapter created bij Jinns in quranic language.

Recited by allah...

Moto4 said...

Nabeel, great job brother. One of the things in the debate was that when Osama was talking about the semens, he mentioned something like "Sulala min 6een (teen)", and I wrote the verse down but it wasn't the verse he quoted 23;13. I am an arab and arabic is my first language. Osama, when you tried to explain that the Nutfa or Sulala was only one that caused the creation of a human being, why did you completely ignore that the verse, as I heard you say it, was saying "sulala min 6een" or sulala from Mudd, it's not even talking about sperm rather it's talking about mudd!! Also notice that all of the verses that Osama is quoting here talk about sperm but no mention of the egg that gets released from the woman. This was indeed nothing miraculous even if the quran stated it because every man could notice that he's depositing sperm into the woman to make a baby. The fact that the Quran does not even mention the egg that's released from the woman in any of the verses that talks about the subject shows the desperation of muslims to make the Quran seem miraculous. I have looked at all of the so called scientific claims of the Quran, and I could find none that are worthy even though I could read them in Arabic. On the contrary there are many errors. For example, look a t surah 88:20 where it says "Wa ela al ard kaifa sutehat" which translates literally to "and to the earth how it's flattened". While many muslim translators translate the word sutehet to "built", it's utterally wrong to translate it that way and please Osama consult your "lisan al arab dictionary" to see that sutehet indeed means flattened. There is just no way the Quran is from God. more likely from Satan and I believe it with almost 100% certainty.

Nabeel, Great job again, and I definitley think you won this debate. God definitely has his people on earth and you are one of them doing work for him. Thank you, and God bless you.

You Who said...

This is unbelievable. I'm watching all the videos.
Who needs reality tv when you can watch a Muslim debate?

bill said...

too bad osamas power let him alone as we witnessed a drowning victim of false powers and recitations.Pearls b4 a ham.

FreeInChrist777 said...

I love Osama Adballah debate he is simply a funny comedian, i thank him a lot for making himself look like a fool and give us more reasons not to accept the religion of Islam. Osama Abdallah, you tried my man, but you failed. The truth will always consume the Lie this is simply a fact, Islam is not the truth, and Allah is not the true God and is a false God made by Mohammed for Mohammed! Thank God for the truth of his holy son, Jesus Christ who sits on the right hand of the father, who is the God of Mohammed, and of all Muslims. Great debate Nabel, you won this debate because you spoke the truth once again, the truth will not be defeated, it is light while lies like the Quran are are darkness. Jesus is the Light, Mohammed is the darkness. Amen! Great job!

sohaila_fargaly said...

It seemed to me that the whole discussion was about the scholars of Islam & what they narrated.. the few times Nabeel actually got to the point and discussed Quran, he mis-quoted the verses. That was very obvious when he said the verse about the stars shooting after Jinn - it's clearly mentioned as Shohob (which is literally comet in Arabic). So instead of getting to the real deal the best he could do was debate narrations that are considered by most moslems as unreliable. We follow Mohamed not Bukhari - really wished he would have gotten to the core, instead of tip toeing around it..

Nabeel Qureshi said...

Dear Sohaila--

Thanks for pointing out it's a comet. That still makes the Qur'an wrong. A comet is not the same thing as the stars that adorn the sky.

I pray that God may open your eyes to see the falsehoods and mistakes in the Qur'an -- not because we hate the Qur'an, but because we love you and pray that you will come to know God in truth.

Sincerely,
-Nabeel

volanj said...

Great job, Nabil!
Osama made a big deal out of embryology that was “revealed” in the Koran. This article points to the fact that information in the Koran about embryology has already been discovered 450 years earlier. http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/embryology.pdf

bob said...

Another miracle that seems to often be claimed is that the quran has remained unaltered since the time of Mohammad but ..... has anyone actually checked to find out whether the koran has not been corrupted. For example, by taking 3 or 4 qurans from different eras and from different regions of the Arab world and checking verse by verse whether there are significant differences. Or should we simply trust Muslims when they tell us that it has been protected from corruption/alteration.

David Wood said...

Bob,

Check the "Quran" tab at the top if this blog.

bob said...

Thanks, David. Got that.

I am also wondering if there are in existence (or which we can get our hands on), say, 3 physical copies of qurans which we can actually hold in our hands and show to Muslims that the text has indeed been changed/corrupted. As I mentioned, by obtaining each from a different region of the world and copies that were published in distinctly different eras; say 1950s, 1970's and 2011.

I am beginning to wonder whether, due to all the faults/errors/absurdities etc that Muslims have heard from the likes of yourselves and others over the past few years and before, whether scholars have been trying to edit out or straighten these errors by changing ever so slightly the actual text itself. It's a long shot, I know.

I am finding it difficult to get the fact of these changes across to Muslims just by talking but can they possibly deny the changes if they actually see them with their own eyes ? Perhaps they even might ... who knows but it might be worth a try.

Abdallah Muslim said...

Hi,

Although I am sure that none of you (except whom may ALLAH choose) may accept Islam, because most of you are among who ALLAH described in his book:

Truly! Those, against whom the Word (Wrath) of your Lord has been justified, will not believe. (96) Even if every sign should come to them, - until they see the painful torment. (10:97)

But, I would like to clarify the Quran verse of “between the bone and ribs”, which I explained in the following article and many others in the same blog regarding creation of Earth, seas, animals, plants, humans etc (http://debatewithatheist.blogspot.com), for those who may be interested or curious, please check the correct explanation on:

http://debatewithatheist.blogspot.com/2011/10/story-of-creation-16-human-birth.html

http://debatewithatheist.blogspot.com/2011/10/story-of-creation-16-b-embryos.html
--

Secondly, for those who don’t respect ALLAH and don’t consider that he is really the Mighty GOD, and Jesus used to pray to him only and call him as ALLAH too, they can refer to this article to check it by themselves too:

http://debatewithmuslim.blogspot.com/2011/03/allah-is-only-god-who-is-worthy-to.html

It’s their choice that they decided to worship one of ALLAH’s prophet (Jesus) and name him as his son, which they will pay for it on the Day of Judgment but you don’t have the right to talk badly on our and your God and Jesus God too, unless you confess that you are infidels similar to Atheists, or any others infidels, (knowing that even Arab Christian call God as ALLAH too).
---------------

Third, you may know or don’t know that Muslims who you are talking badly on are mentioned in your Bible, even the year of Prophet Muhammad birth too and mentioning that he is coming, but you like to ignore or you don’t understand it correctly..
Please read: the difference between the true and the false prophet, the 40 weeks prophecy and the valley of Bacca on the following:

http://debatewithachristian.blogspot.com/2011/01/q-how-to-prove-valley-of-baca-in-palms.html

http://debatewithachristian.blogspot.com/2011/02/q-true-prophet-false-prophet-false.html

http://debatewithachristian.blogspot.com/2011/01/q-what-is-correct-explanation-of-70.html
---------------

Rahel Jigi said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rowland said...

Abdallah Muslim: Lols. All your lies and half truths have already been debunked by your fellow muslims turned Atheist/christians. Allah is a pagan god worshipped by pre-islamic Arabs, Profit Mohammad was a pathological attention seeker who turned out to be a Murderer, rapist, Child molester, thief, deciever not to mention a illiterate fool. Like this hadeeth I found.

During the pre-islamic period of ignorance, I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys, they were all stoning it because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too stoned it along with them. ( Bukari Vol 5,. BK 58,. no. 188 ).

This was where profit mohammed learnt how/why to stone adulterers to death.

Isn't he STUPID??