Thursday, February 19, 2009

"Miracles of the Qur'an" Part 1:
An Introduction

In Christianity, there is one miracle upon which we hinge the truth of our faith: the Resurrection. If it did not happen, then Christianity is false. If it happened, and if Jesus truly is the Risen Lord, then Christianity is true.

In Islam, there is not one concrete miracle or event which determines the truth of the faith. If there is something that comes close, though, it's the Qur'an. Though not as objectively testable, a basic principle applies: if the Qur'an is from God, then Islam is true. If the Qur'an is not from God, then Islam is false. Thus, an examination of the Qur'an is certainly merited. What better place to start than to examine the Muslims' positive case?

The Positive Case for the Qur'an
The mainstay of the Muslim positive case is the stipulated "miraculous nature" of the Qur'an. Muslims argue that the miracles of the Qur'an prove it's divine origin. Here are the five miracles I have heard them use the most (in no particular order):

1 - The Numerical Miracle
2 - The Literary Miracle
3 - The Preservation Miracle
4 - The Prophetic Miracles
5 - The Scientific Miracles

Interspersed in our blogs throughout the next few weeks, we will examine these claims to varying degrees. The hope is to systematically address the positive case for the Qur'an. The deeper our investigation, the better, but depth will most likely be a function of the dialogue within the comments.

I pray that we will glorify God in this endeavour, keeping his glory at the center of our purpose.

39 comments:

Dk said...

The funny part is Osama knows better than Allah, since he believes the SCIENCE miracles are BETTER for apologetics than the very miracles Allah offers in the Quran, in fact Osama uses this as the bottom reason for being Muslim.

Bassam has a similar position where he says that the miracle Allah uses for our day and age is the science found in the Quran.

Here is the funny part, IF Allah is responsible for supplying a sufficent miracle for every different century and/or generation, then Allah has miserably failed in his task.

Examples:

1) Literature Miracle can only be sufficent for Arab Speakers, and specifically Qurashi Tribe and Dialect

2) Scientific miracle can only be discovered in ages of advancement, development and the particularly 20and 21st century (assuming translation of arabic is not an issue)

3) Preservation Miracle is not a testable miracle, since no one has access to the earliest manuscripts or reciters (thus Allah cannot use this for any particular generation)

4) The numeracy miracle was not given until Rashid Khalifa came up with such nonsense in the 20th century lol. (thus this miracle once again has no relevance to any particular generation)

In conclussion:

IF Allah uses the culture/technology or whatever other means of every generation to convert disbelievers, then why did not Allah use art to convert Da Vinci, or Electricity to convert Franklyn?

Osama and Bassam are offering nothing but b.s. excuses for why they have no evidence for the Quran and the general claims of Islam.

Michelle Qureshi said...

Interesting points - stuff I hadn't thought of.

I disagree with your point number 3, however. You're right in that the preservation miracle is not provable because the MSS were destroyed. However, there is still plenty of evidence against it (such as the existence of pre-uthmanic variants and the Ibn Masud problem).

Dk said...

Nabeel good observation, I was being to generous by presenting a neutral position for no.3 when in fact the existing evidence goes further than not being able to find out and test the preservation of the Quran but it actually demonstrates the existance of different codices and variants.

Dk said...

For the Muslims who give no emphasis to one "miracle" over another, and think all "miracles" of the Quran are equally "valid" and even to the Muslims who give more credibility to the actual miracles given within the Quran since you have no standard for Allah to give each generation a sufficent miracle, and you believe the final miracles of the Quran can be presented in every generation, I would simply point out the following:

1) Literature Miracle not confirmable by non-arabic speaking folk (over 90% of planet earth).

2) The Qurans claim to be consistant and confirm Abraham, Psalms, Torah and Injeel etc consistancy/confirmation cannot be confirmed by anyone ever since Muslims say these are now lost or destroyed.

In fact the only cards you have left is the science and prophetic miracles, which have already been falsified by this website and others. :-)

This means none of the criteria given by the Quran and the extra polemical tests conjured up by Muslims are "confirmable" which is a perfect reason NEVER to join Islam, this combined with the evidence against Muhammad and the Quran is a knock out in the first round.

Anonymous said...

Osama, would you be so kind and give us links to your top 5 favorite scientific mriacles? It would be unfair if we wuld pick some you might consider unconvincing yourself. List a few strong scientific miracles we can adress.

Osama Abdallah said...

Dear Matthew,

Your request seems to be sincere. I therefore will gladly help you.


Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links and you'll see a TABLE OF MY FAVORITE ARTICLES. It's toward the top of the section. You can't miss it. Have your pick from there and feel free to discuss it.

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Michelle Qureshi said...

Osama--

I would also like to see your top 5 scientific miracle claims, but I'm not about to visit your site. Would you mind listing them here?

Thanks
-Nabeel

Osama Abdallah said...

Dear Nabeel,

How about doing this in a formal debate with either you or David Wood?

It will be too time-consuming to go through these things here.

Weren't we going to debate on April? I know that you said that you have not made up your mind yet when I mistakenly thought that things were confirmed. But would you be open to have a nice and professional and thorough debate on this topic?

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Fernando said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fernando said...

Usama... whatt do you meant that enumerating your five «top favorite scientific miracles» would be «too time-consuming to go through these things here»... no one is asking you to EXPLAIN them, just to make a list of them... just like (I'm justt guessing...):

1) the qur'an saies sometimes A, and another times B: one proff off the theorie off relativitie;

2) when one lookes attentiously to the qur'an one can see it was either intentionaly currupted ou unintentionally : one proof of the Heisenberg's uncertainty principle;

3) the qur'an as 114 surahs: the first being followed bie the second; the second being followed bie the tird ans so one: one proof that the surahs from the qur'an can follow an aritmeticaly sequence;

4) the qur'an saies that allah transformed some human beings into apes: one proof for the veracity off the invertion evolution off species theorie that some muslims scientists, due to their faith in the qur'an have postulated;

5) the qur'an saies that ants spoke to Salomon: onne proof that one day carttons would be invented...

simple and quickie as that Usama...

Osama Abdallah said...

Fernando,

Obviously, you're not here to learn, but to joke. What a waste of space you're causing.


To the reader, please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links to see what Fernando is referring to and mocking.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Fernando said...

Usama... to learn? with you? that's a joke... and this's not a joke... I'm here to respond to muslims... this is "Answering Muslims" blog, not "Visit my Site" publicity blog...

How difficult or time consumming can itt be to make a list here of your supposed scientific miracles in the qur'an... you just can make a "copy and paste" from your site... or you are also affraide off getting a virus there?

And iff you want us all to learn, please, as doctor Nabeel also asked, present them here... I, on mie part, promise I wont make funn off you. That's a promise...

Fernando said...

Usama... I understand you may think I was makking foonie off you... but as you, at least with me, I didn't went through the path off insult that some other muslims bloggers use in this blog...

MP said...

Hi... been without Internet for some days... I just spend the last two hours reading the past posts just to be informed of what happened here since my last visit...

And I would confirm that my Antivirus (Norton) detected an attack treat from Osama site… This is getting worrying… As someone asked: why do you do that? I also would like to see the list of your five top scientific miracles in the Qur’an…

Osama Abdallah said...

Ok, I think I figured out the problem!

My page routes you to a CGI/PERL script that I developed, which determines what URL you should go to.
For instance, if you type WWW.QURANSEARCH.COM, then you'll be routed to:

www.answering-christianity.com/quran_search.htm

I've written this script because I WAS NOT ONLY COMBATTING CHRISTIANS, but I was also combatting PORN. I had porn-like aliases (URLS) that route you to WWW.ANSWERING-CHRISTIANITY.COM. So while you'd be hunting for a cuttie ehmmm, you'd get routed to Osama Abdallah LOOLLLL :-). Ewwwwww!!!!! :-) How turnning off that is!! :-).

I'll fix it. I think I'll just have to remove my programming because after GOOGLING this, I see that many of the web developers out there are suffering like I am. I don't want to lose my readers.

And to the intelligent christians in here who think I am doing this on purpose: Has it not occured to you that I'd also be hurting my own Muslim brothers and sisters????? So why on earth would I want to purposely harm them and infect their computers?

But at any rate, I appreciate all of your advises. It has been helpful :-).

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah

Osama Abdallah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Royal Son said...

Osama: So the lawsuit is off now? I'm sure McAfee will be breathing a sigh of relief.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Well you may be more of a computer expert than I am Osama. But how do you explain that this is categorized by virus protectors as a trojan horse?

Furthermore, trojan horses don't necessarily destroy computers they enter computers and provide private data. That to me and others is a matter of concern.

Particularly if you or others are able to contain data of those whom you consider enemies of islam.

The concern we show is not that of your website harming their computer but to the possibility that the data can be given to those who can harm them physically.

Taylor said...

Yes. It would be nice to know what these scientific miracles in the Quran are. Please provide them.

Osama Abdallah said...

Hogan,

With all honesty I am not storing anything on anybody's computer, nor will the information be useful to me anyway, or I would never IN A MILLION YEARS know which computer is Muslim and which isn't.
And even if I knew, I would not harm people like that, because yes it is against Islam. Plus it would be a major major major felony crime. I saw on news some years ago that one guy who invented a virus got 40 years in prison for it. So it is not something to joke with.

What the anti-virus sites are doing is not taking any chance because A HUGE ARMY OF BASTARDS OUT THERE ARE REALLY THREATENING THE SAFETY OF THE INTERNET, and are out-smarting everyone and every software. Guys like me, who do web development on their sites, however, are paying a dear price for it. It is really becoming a sad thing and quite frustrating becuase this means that I might have to shut down my "FREE MUSLIM MARRIAGE CONNECTION" service, which I right now have 1000s of registered members on. I am really going to research this and get to the bottom of it. I won't give up that easy. I am sure there is a solution for it. I'll contact all of the anti-virus sites and have them TEST MY SITE AS McAfee did and release my site from their black list.

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

Sorry I made a typo. I mean to say:

I would never in a MILLION YEARS be able to know which computer is owned by a Muslim and which isn't.

Michelle Qureshi said...

Huh--

Call me gullible, but I believe him.

Anonymous said...

Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links and you'll see a TABLE OF MY FAVORITE ARTICLES. It's toward the top of the section. You can't miss it. Have your pick from there and feel free to discuss it.

Thanks Osama, the question was sincere. Now we have a good number of arguments we can discuss.

Fernando said...

Usama... since we can't, for the presentte momentt (and thankes for your effords...), be sure not to be attacked inn your site I here jugest you, all the muslims interested in this subject off the psedo-miracles in que qur'an to see:

http://www.islam-watch.org/Amarkhan/Miracles-of-Quran-Exposed.htm

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Today I consulted one of my best friends, a high level computer and internet expert.

He checked Osama's website, and immediately reacted in chock on the phone when his super advanced virus system reacted. He informed me that the website is dangerous to enter.

He also warned me to stay away from it, as far away as possible.

When I stated that I had a virus protection system, he agreed that with an advanced virus protection system you may be safe to enter, but that is still a risk to take.

Basically any site that is categorized as virus loaded and any site in which your virus protection system reacts to, should be avoided.

He was even informed about the explanation Osama gave on this thread to defend his site, and found such an explanation hard to swallow.

He considers the possibility that Osama or some islamic internet terrorist team may use the site to get access to certain Christian computers and destroy them simply to hinder their contribution on the internet.

Osama says that he would be unable to differentiate between the computers of Christians and Muslims, however, if you have access to the computer and its data, you obviously have the name of the person, email addresses, as well as location.

Hence it would be possible to access the computer of Sam Shamoun or David Wood or James White and obtain whatever data available, including emails, contacts, etc, and possibly even destroy the computer, their websites etc.

This is called internet terrorism, and we are all fully aware of it happening.

So there you have it brothers and sisters, stay away from that website for the moment being. Osama has a lot of explanation to do, and I don't fall for his explanation after today's inquiry.

Even though I should be wrong here, and I am afraid that I am not, we need to warn people, particularly Christians to stay away.

If Osama wishes to debate his articles he should be told to post them on a Christian, neutral or a safe muslim forum, or a blog like this one.

I myself have been attacked several times on the internet myself, this is not a joke.

Osama Abdallah said...

Hogan,

You said that your friend, who is an expert, said:

"He was even informed about the explanation Osama gave on this thread to defend his site, and found such an explanation hard to swallow.

He considers the possibility that Osama or some islamic internet terrorist team may use the site to get access to certain Christian computers and destroy them simply to hinder their contribution on the internet."


Obviously, your friend doesn't know much about frames and the codes inside the frames, and the scripts that web developers use to load certain pages

TELL YOUR EXPERT FRIEND, WHY THEN DID MCAFEE SAY that www.answering-christianity.com IS AN OK SITE? I will post for you the link from McAfee tonight, insha'Allah.

This is getting too ridiculous. You're making far too much noise about it. I love how your friend thinks I am a cyber terrorist.

I'll send you the link that says my site is clean and clear from McAfee. THIS IS A COMPANY THAT ONCE WAS FOOLED INTO THINKING THAT MY SITE WAS INFECTED. After they ran their tests, AS THEY STATED ON THEIR SITE, they found that my site contains no viruses. Show it to your friend and have him say McAfee is wrong.

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Well lets see you solve the problem first.

The fact is that within a week Mcfee and a number of other virus protection systems have reacted to your website when we enter it and the information provided by Mcfee is that your website contains a trojan horse.

That is so far our experience. Now it is up to you to solve the problem. Until then don't expect anyone to take the chance to enter.

However, I do hope you are right and I am wrong.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Well lets see you solve the problem first.

The fact is that within a week Mcfee and a number of other virus protection systems have reacted to your website when we enter it and the information provided by Mcfee is that your website contains a trojan horse.

That is so far our experience. Now it is up to you to solve the problem. Until then don't expect anyone to take the chance to enter.

However, I do hope you are right and I am wrong.

Osama Abdallah said...

Hogan,

Visit this link:

http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/answering-christianity.com?version=2&core_ver=1.0&pip=true&premium=false&client_ver=2.9.242&client_type=IEPlugin&suite=true&aff_id=105&locale=en-us&os_ver=5.1.3.0


McAfee says that www.answering-christianity.com is a safe and clean site.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

Hogan,

How can YOUR McAfee say that my site has TROJAN, when MY McAfee doesn't????
ONE OF US IS LYING, and the link I gave in the previous post shows who is!

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

I am going to get to the bottom of this with the other anti-virus sites soon insha'Allah. This is getting way too annoying and frustrating.

May be slapping all of those incompetent bastards with lawsuits is the best solution! You don't just falsely charge sites with viruses and malware crap just because some bastards decided to write viruses!! This is like modern-day 'racial profiling' or the WWII concentration camps! Everyone who looks in a certain way is booked.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Michelle Qureshi said...

Yes, just like concentration camps...

David Wood said...

Indeed. There is absolutely no difference between (1) pointing out the fact that Osama's site is full of viruses, and (2) indiscriminately locking Jews into camps for extermination.

Royal Son said...

Osama, your language leaves a lot to be desired, and I find your comments about concentration camps to be of poor taste. Just for your information, I received the following warning from AVAST antivirus:

A Virus was found!
File name: http://www.answering-christianity.com/
malware name: vbs:malware-gen
malware type: Virus/worm
VPS version: 090220-0,20/02/2009

I hope this helps.

Osama Abdallah said...

Hahahhahha.... Me and my site are now in the concentration camp along with the other computer "geeks" as we're called :-).

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

I checked your site again Osama, and my virus protection system still reacts in the same way, it detected and removed a trajan horse.

Osama Abdallah said...

Actually with honesty I was referring to the United States Of America's concentration camps and not Nazi Germany's. That is why I said 'racial profiling' and concentration camps and being booked. I was referring to when the Japanese and the Germans were taken into concentration camps during WWII.

Kind Regards,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Sam said...

Osama, your index page has a JavaScript which creates an iframe to a known malware download site. This is why your site sets off antivirus programs.

I suggest you remove this junk in order to allow the majority of people who run antivirus programs to access your site through your main url (answering-Christianity.com).

The javascript puts an iframe on the page which loads the following url: http://77.221.133.150/.if/go.html?[random numbers]

If you do a google search of this, you can see its red-flagged on many security pages.

It isn't too hard to decode the javescript that was disguised in illegible numbers.

The following website says that the site no longer works, but still this is the reason you're being flagged..
http://www.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/default5.asp?VName=HTML_CLICKER.AIB&VSect=T

Apollos26 said...

Just redireting the topic of "miracles o the quran".

I came upon some very interesting sites dealing with the science found in the hindu scriptures, called the vedas. The science that is contained there is much superior than the so called evidence in the quran.

check up for yourselves:

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_12.htm

So, does this proof that the vedas are devine? Is this a reason or a crieteria to distuingish between truth and untruth. According to islamic logic, any believer of any religion should then convert to hinduism, because there seems to be fantaaic science found in their scriptures! - Well, this cheap approach to truthness doesn't work on christians.

I find this argumentation with the hindu vedas to be very effectful against the islamic claims.

I think in debates it could be very helpful.

The quran could be seen as a piece of literature, but nothing else.

God bless,

Apollos