Thursday, January 22, 2009

Six Pastors Killed, Forty Churches Burned in Nigeria

Of course, this has nothing to do with Islam, even though Muslims were killing and burning in the name of Islam. And it has nothing to do with the fact that Muhammad commanded his followers to "fight those who do not believe" (Qur'an 9:29). We should just take this as an isolated event (despite the fact that things like this are happening across the Muslim world). Shame on me for even mentioning the murder of my Nigerian brothers and sisters.

Yep, nothing to worry about here. READ MORE.

18 comments:

Bassam said...

"Of course, this has nothing to do with Islam, even though Muslims were killing and burning in the name of Islam."

David seems to indirectly, yet clearly say that since they were doing it in the name of Islam, it must have something to do with Islam. Again, the same old logical fallacy continues.

And it has nothing to do with the fact that Muhammad commanded his followers to "fight those who do not believe" (Qur'an 9:29).

Yeah it doesn't. We understand this verse in light of other Quranic verses, authentic hadith, historical context and statements from scholars. Showing Muslims in Nigeria killing other people is not Islamic authority for explaining Surah 9:29.

Bassam said...

Shame on me for even mentioning the murder of my Nigerian brothers and sisters.

No, only shame on you for putting up useless posts showing people being killed and with no evidence provided you sarcastically and mockingly link it to Islam.

Fernando said...

oh mie, oh mie...

iff some muslims acts in the name of islam, one must admit islam has nothing to do with itt...

iff some muslims justify theire actions with what they have been thoughtt to be the correct muslim proceedur, one must admit islam has nothing to do with itt...

iff some muslims say that the Qur'an, according to the major orthodox islamic schools of jurisprudence, orders to do one thing, one must admit islam has nothing to do with itt...

iff the Qur'an says something, one must admit islam has nothing to do with itt...

iff the hadiths say something, one must admit islam has nothing to do with itt...

iff some muslims say that all those things are unislamic, unless one wants to admit he is being falacious, one must admit islam has nothing to do with itt...

well... the conclusion is obvious: since muslims can't, and won't, critizece fellow muslims in theire pseudo-unislamic actions in order to rectify their actitudes, all their words lack autheticity...

perhaps some muslim, taqqiya free, will condemn these actions and prove me wrongue...

Ibn said...

Fernando, was the Spanish Inquisition carried out in the name of Christianity?

Fernando said...

Good point Ibn...

As you know inquisition wase, as far has I know, firstly an instrument of the chruch to deal with intra-ecclesial problems...

latter some european kings (christian kings) asked it to be an instrument to aim them to politically unify their countries (not a christian justified aim)...

as a matter of factt, the inquisition procedures were much lenient, and gave more opportunities to the suspects, than the non-religious trials (during all the time of the existence of the inquisition, lees people were condemed than in one year in the first decade os islam's occupation of India... but then i guess you know this well... it's in wikipedia, your primarily source of information...)...

No one denies the inquisition (now I'm speakin of this one that persecuted non christians to appease the wills of some governements) was carried out by church members (no one denies it), but not IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY...

no true christian teachings can support it...

no biblical passage (and remeber that christian read the OT at the light of the NT...) can support it...

great personalityes like Thomas of Aquinas, Francisco de Victoria, Bartolomeu de las Casas, António Vieira (and many bishops, priests and other theologians...) denouced it as non-christian...

that's whie it stoped... glad that it stoped...

thats wie the church appologized for that... glad it did, even though one should not only jugde historical events from our actual perspective, unless they continue to persist...

I also publiquely say it was wrong...

But do we see any changes in the even more atrocious aspects of the islamic penal code? If not can it be because they're trully based in the core of muslim's belieffs?

But do we see muslims publiquely admit that this atrocious actions are wrong? If not can it be because they're trully based in the core of muslim's belieffs?

But do we see in non muslim countries the desiere not to import those attrocityes as it was clearly evident in some european muslim manifestation against what happen in Gaza? (and I say that I'm ssorry to the suffering if it's people... to bad Hamas continued to receive support from islamic countries...) If not can it be because they're trully based in the core of muslim's belieffs?

Once again:

1) the inquisition (the excla-ecclesial one) was made by christian people mandated in many cases by the church itself in order to oby chstian monarchs... but no where in this chain of christian ellements one can say that it was made in the name of Christianity, not even in the name of christian beliefs, not even as an imitation of Christ's sentiments and actitudes... to bad teh church was still bery connected with tthe states... glad it stoped... unfortunately with islam that will never be possible...

2) these actions portraited in this post, are being made by muslims who may justify their actions by core muslim teachigs; they are not only continuing, but also spreedind through the muslim world; they are not being condemned by muslims clerics and governements, not even rectified by muslims theologian or scholars (the famous islamic university in Cairo recently supported some of these actions...); finaly: they're being made in THE NAME OF ISLAM because they're following the example of Muhammad's entiments and actitudes...

Ibn: the point is: Inquisition was wrong and was anti-christian and was never made in the name off christianity; can the same be said by these events in connection with islam? the unswer is clear and simple: no... these people are following core muslims beliefs and are not being sensured or criminalized by muslims authorities...

Finally: I won't be hable to came back to the NET unlit satarday... if yoy want to continue this exchange of word I'lll do it gadely then... untill then you're free to declare yourself the winner and post everythingue you want...

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Bassam wrote:

No, only shame on you for putting up useless posts showing people being killed and with no evidence provided you sarcastically and mockingly link it to Islam.

Elijah replies:

So now it is shameful and useless to expose the killing of Christians. See this is what happens here in Europe.

I guess we should not cover the news of Palestine either, I guess based on this attitude, even mentioning the killing of these people is both shameful and useless. And of course not to mention its link to Israel.

If you want my opinion we need to provide the full story for both Palestine and the situation of many Christians in Nigeria, whether it links to Islam or Israel.

Bryant said...

They want us dead. They want our blood spilled in the streets. They want the Gospel to be silenced. But it will never be stopped. Christianity since its inception until now has been the most persecuted faith, yet the gospel faithfully is preached.

Jesus will judge all when he returns.

Anonymous said...

http://www.islamfortoday.com/khan08.htm

Fortunately, some muslims seem to have problems accepting what is going on in the world today.

David Wood said...

Bassam,

Notice that I listed A COMBINATION OF FACTORS. Whether an evil act is related to a religion is based on (1) whether it was done in the name of the religion, and (2) whether the religion teaches its followers to do it.

If we have (1) but not (2), then we have an adherent acting contrary to the teachings of his religion, in which case the religion is not to be blamed. If we have (2) but not one, then the person is acting on his own desires, despite the fact that his religion also teaches him to do it (i.e. he may not be aware of the fact that his religion teaches him to do it, or he may not care much).

In the present case, I showed that the violence in Nigeria is based on both (1) and (2). Yet, as usual Muslims misrepresent my claim and say that I only based my claim on (1).

And, once again, Muslims are more upset with the person who posts the facts than they are with their fellow Muslims who slaughter my fellow Christians.

Bassam said...

"In the present case, I showed that the violence in Nigeria is based on both (1) and (2)."


Where on earth did you show that?

David Wood said...

Well, (1) it was Muslims doing the killing and the burning, and (2) the Qur'an commands Muslims to "fight those who do not believe."

I'd expect you to be a bit quicker than this, Bassam.

Sami Zaatari said...

the Bible says kill and make genocide on the people of the land, Israelis have commited just that recently in Gaza, and have used the Bible to justify it, American Christian zionists marching in the U.S. have even brought up the Bible to justify the genocide in Palestine, yet even with all this David will still claim the Bible is peaceful. yet nigerian muslims who just go on an attack, without shouting Quranic slogans etc yet we can link this as further proof that Islam is violent...hmmm thats nice.

David Wood said...

Sami,

You know you're misrepresenting both Christianity and Islam, and yet you say it anyway.

The final marching orders of the Bible are found in the New Testament, and there we're told to love everyone, to harm no one, and to live in peace with all men.

The final marching orders of the Qur'an are found in Surah 9, and there Muslims are told to fight everyone who rejects Islam and to slay the infidels.

Yet when you discuss Christianity and Islam, you deliberately reverse things, as if Muhammad's final marching orders are found in Surah 2, and as if Jesus' final marching orders are found in Deuteronomy. I'm not sure what to say in response to such deliberate distortion.

Javier said...

the Bible says kill and make genocide on the people of the land,

Provide citations of standing commands where Christians are to be violent to any person of any other faith. Please.

Israelis have commited just that recently in Gaza, and have used the Bible to justify it, American Christian zionists marching in the U.S. have even brought up the Bible to justify the genocide in Palestine,

Hyper dispensationalists are not general Christianity, and general Christianity is historically verfiable the same cannot be said about Hyper dispensationalism so that your generalization is inapplicable. The difference b/w the generalization of David, and Sammy is that Davids is true and he has documented it. You have merely made assertions. Are you demonstrating you inability to sustain a proper debate?
yet even with all this David will still claim the Bible is peaceful. yet nigerian muslims who just go on an attack, without shouting Quranic slogans etc yet we can link this as further proof that Islam is violent...hmmm thats nice.

The fact is that Nigerian Muslims obey a command that has been documented several times on this very blog. But Christians are not Israelites in open-canon history yet Muslims with a 'closed' canon have a standing command to be violent against unbelievers. You are truly epitomizing what Christians have said all along, Muslims will always attempt to justify their evils without reacting to the evil itself.

Nakdimon said...

Sami: "the Bible says kill and make genocide on the people of the land, Israelis have commited just that recently in Gaza, and have used the Bible to justify it, American Christian zionists marching in the U.S. have even brought up the Bible to justify the genocide in Palestine, yet even with all this David will still claim the Bible is peaceful. "

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=aXCzGWWq27o

Sunil said...

David Wood,

>> Notice that I listed A COMBINATION OF FACTORS. Whether an evil act is related to a religion is based on (1) whether it was done in the name of the religion, and (2) whether the religion teaches its followers to do it.

>> If we have (1) but not (2), then we have an adherent acting contrary to the teachings of his religion, in which case the religion is not to be blamed.


I will add this: If we have (1) but not (2), the rest of the mainstream adherents of the religion should severely castigate people involved in (1), refute them in their face, put them to justice and put them to shame. Of course we will not see any of that.

Nakdimon said...

Sunil: “I will add this: If we have (1) but not (2), the rest of the mainstream adherents of the religion should severely castigate people involved in (1), refute them in their face, put them to justice and put them to shame. Of course we will not see any of that.”

Sunil, that is exactly what’s the dilemma of the Muslims on this board. They CANNOT refute those Muslims in their faces because those Muslims DO have a case from their sources. That’s why they don’t want to even go there. The refutation would be the other way around! They would point to their sources and refute Bassam, Sami, Ibn, Yahya, Islam2009, etc in THEIR faces. And then I would be eager to see how the infamous “that narration is weak”-defence and the “throwing the scholars to the sharks”-defence will work. That would be pretty interesting!

But don’t hold your breath for that. They will continue to oppose us, because they know they wont get killed for that. To the contrary, if they would oppose the Jihadists like they oppose us, they would be labelled as apostates, hunted down and killed, since they deviate from the sound Islamic teachings to try to please the kufar! Because their prophet said “whoever changes his religion, kill him”.

george said...

bassam and zami are now islams blind defenders.when muslims kills non-muslims then these DEFENDERS ask us to believe it is not in the name of islam.even if v bring evedence they come up with old dirty tricks such as" christians did past..""""".
when i talked about muhamamd taking 6 year old girl for sex,muslim get on and said ,well even ur priest do that! so they inorder to save their face they are even ready to bring muhammad into the level of priest whom evenm christian rebuke for waht they did.
believe me ,islam is the only religion which never loves to accept others and live in peace.just look any neighbouring countries where islamic nation is ,u will find muslims becomes master of terrors.eg.india and israel
SAMI and Bassam...save save save the worlds dangerous religion !!!!