Thursday, January 8, 2009

Convert to Christianity Raped and Tortured by Egyptian Police

I don't know what's more shocking: (A) the fact that religiously motivated rape and torture are still so common in the Muslim world, or (B) the fact that Muslims on this blog will be more outraged that I posted this article than they will be outraged at the actions of their fellow Muslims.

Egypt (MNN) ― A report by ASSIST News Service states that while attempting to escape ongoing persecution in Egypt, a Muslim convert was raped and tortured.

Martha Samuel, an Egyptian Muslim who converted to Christianity five years ago, was arrested at the Cairo airport as she was leaving for Russia with her family. Police have promised to release her if she returns to Islam.

In a story covered by the Assyrian International News Agency (AINA), the Egypt for Christ ministry reports that police officers sexually assaulted Samuel both at the National Security office in Heliopolis and at the El-Nozha police station. In a continued attempt to force her return to Islam, police also beat and tortured Samuel. According to AINA, Samuel's children, aged four and two years old, are being denied food to increase pressure on Samuel. Her husband has been taken to the National Security office in Alexandria.

AINA said that the family was trying to travel to Russia using a passport belonging to Samuel, whose former name is Zainab Said Abdel-Aziz. The passport was under Samuel's Christian name, which is on a list of people prohibited from leaving the country. Since converting five years ago, Samuel has undergone continued persecution by Egyptian police, and her own family has tried to murder her.
SOURCE.

15 comments:

Sami Zaatari said...

David, no it doesnt outrage us that you cover this story, in fact many Arab-Muslims have already been exposing the Egyption system for a long time. They dont just rape and beat converts to Christianity, they do this to alot of Muslims as well, this is something common amongst Egyption police, and if you lived in Egypt etc you would know that.

What does outrage us (lol although i think outrage is a strong word, i would say annoy us) is that you try to link this terrible incident to Islam, thats what annoys us, you see a bad incident happening by 'Muslims', then you use that as a negative against us and our religion. Secondly, as i stated above, this is something common amongst Egyption police, they do this to all people, so there is a context to it, just because she was an apostate, and they said come back to Islam etc etc doesnt erase the fact that Egyption police are brutal, they will always use whatever excuse they can to hurt people.

Sami Zaatari said...

David, if there were Muslims in Egypt who spoke against the west, and called for an Islamic goverment, these same police would arrest them and torture them as well, in fact they have done so on many occasions, so how can we link this to Islam when the very same police will arrest, torture, and murder Muslims calling for an Islamic state and a Muslim revival???

El-Cid said...

Sami said: "What does outrage us (lol although i think outrage is a strong word, i would say annoy us) is that you try to link this terrible incident to Islam.."

Unfortunately, rape as a form of punishment for apostasy from Islam is NOT exclusively an Egyptian problem. Sexual assault, rape, mutilation of breasts/genitals occurs at the hands of professing Muslims, perpetrated against non-Muslim in a venue that is primarily motivated by religion (i.e punishing the "kuffar" or the apostate).

Sudan, Nigeria, Egypt, Indonesia, Phillipines....this is a short list of places which I have read articles about in the last few months alone where such activities are occuring. I have little doubt that an hour on google would expand the list considerably.

Of course, rape is perpetrated by people in a variety of of groups against diverse victims (unfortunately), but Islam seems to be the only religion that targets apostate women for this form of psychological terrorism.

It is good that you say Muslims are attempting to correct this in Egypt, but that is far from enough (and I question what type of results they will acheive since they are unlikely to admit and deal with the true root causes).

ubiquitouserendipity said...

just more of the same. same ol' same ol', day in, day out, day after day, mohammedans somewhere in the world victimizing someone. if not an infidel, they tyrannize their own. see hamas, the recent sunni/shia exploding mosques in iraq, the social purge happening in so many of these sick societies. only the return of Jesus will cure the ills stemming from sin. mohammedanism is just the epitome of godlessness, so these types of incidences are expected anymore. sad that so many are lost in this belief set. but there is safety in numbers,,, blah blah.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

the founder of hamas' son, who has converted to Christianity, says that the words, "love your enemies, pray for those who despitefully use you..." essentially changed his life. a novel concept heh mohammedans.

Jesus is Lord, everything else is just window dressing.

serendipitously yours

Sami Zaatari said...

El-Cid i think you are trying to infer that the root cause of this is Islam, well very simple then, produce a single Islamic text and a single Islamic ijma that says the punishment for an apostate lady is torture, mutilation, and rape. :)

El-Cid said...

Sami said: "El-Cid i think you are trying to infer that the root cause of this is Islam, well very simple then, produce a single Islamic text and a single Islamic ijma that says the punishment for an apostate lady is torture, mutilation, and rape. :)"

I'm sure an intelligent young man such as yourself knows intuitively that such issues are not as cut and dry as "Produce X written source that directly condones Y behavior". That being said, I think you have miscalculated my intention in the phrase "root cause" on this issue.

I see the root cause as the acceptance of punishing the so-called "unbeliever" in Islamic culture. This is widespread, and historic to the earliest days of Islam. You combine this with the fact that the Quran approves torture against "mischief-makers" and Muhammad's Sunnah allows for the death penalty to apostates; and then add in a generally misogynistic cultural milieu that also places family "honor" on the shoulders of females, and you have a mix that makes a fertile breeding ground for all kinds of heinous actions against those that dare to leave Islam (especially women).

(And yes, I am aware that you say you don't believe in a general death to apostates ruling, but for the sake of discussion let's just rest what I am saying on the fact the many many Muslims DO believe in it, and it is THOSE Muslims that fall within the scope of that part of my comments).

Sami Zaatari said...

ok, i will go with what you say on apostates el-cid, infact that was my intention all along, because even with that, there is not a single Islamic text that says mutilate, or rape the female apostate. at the end of the day there is no Islamic text, and no Islamic scholarship consensus (Ijma-a fundamental of Islamic princpal) that says the female apostate will be raped and so on and so on.

David Wood said...

Sami,

I'm a bit confused here. El-Cid has claimed that several elements in Islam work together and ultimately lead to raping apostate women. Whether he's right or wrong, this is what he's claiming.

Your response is that he can only claim this if he finds an official and authoritative Islamic declaration saying, specifically, that apostates are to be raped. That is, you reject the argument form W+X+Y ultimately leads to Z.

Yet in your articles, you apply the very methodology you're now rejecting. For instance, in your article "Why Christianity Is
Bad for the World," we read:

"Christianity leads to a homosexual society as well. If anyone reads Paul's writings one will find he is completely anti-marriage! He always advises men to NOT get married, and only do it as a last resort! Now if men are being advised to avoid marriage with women, this can only lead to one thing: HOMOSEXUALITY. And with homosexuality rampant this will lead to high numbers of HIV-AIDS."

Now you must admit that the Bible condemns homosexual sex. But you're saying that since Paul was anti-marriage [which he wasn't], people won't get married [even though Christians always have], which will cause their desires to overpower them, ultimately leading them to become homosexuals, ending in an abundance of AIDS cases. Thus, you're arguing that certain elements of Christianity ultimately lead to some phenomenon, and you do this throughout your article.

Yet you reject this same reasoning pattern when El-Cid uses it. To be consistent, you must either drop your objection to El-Cid, or you must provide official and authoritative Christian declarations saying, specifically, that people should be homosexuals, etc.

Fernando said...

Professor Wood... I was verie surprised to know that my friende Sami said thate christianity lead to homossexuality...

I am well informed of the love off muslims with homossexuality... it's a common practick in some madrassas and a practice based in some hadiths such this: Kitab Bab ul Salaat, narrates a tradition from Zuhr (can be found in Sahih al-Bukhari, p. 96, 1375 AH impression): «The Imamate of a mukhanath at a time of necessity is Sahih»...

I was verie surprised to see whate mie friend Samie said... very, very surprised...

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Homosexuality is actually a much greater problem in Muslim countries than the West. Some of my Christian contacts from Muslim countries estimate that the majority of Muslim males engage in homosexuality while in their teens. The problem relates to the strict separation of males and females in Muslim societies. It may correspond with recent test in labs that two male rats locked up together for a long period of time become intimate. Hence such strictness backfires. I simply do not think this overstrict separation of the sexes is healthy or divinely intended.

I agree however with Wood here, as to Sami's methodology (no offence Sami, I don't mean to attack you personally) we have witnessed yet another inconsistency in the muslim approach to Christianity.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Sami wrote:

What does outrage us (lol although i think outrage is a strong word, i would say annoy us) is that you try to link this terrible incident to Islam, thats what annoys us, you see a bad incident happening by 'Muslims', then you use that as a negative against us and our religion. Secondly, as i stated above, this is something common amongst Egyption police, they do this to all people, so there is a context to it, just because she was an apostate, and they said come back to Islam etc etc doesnt erase the fact that Egyption police are brutal, they will always use whatever excuse they can to hurt people.


Elijah wrote:

I certainly agree with you, that militants are also being targeted in Muslim countries. However,they do seem to pose a danger to the stability and safety of the country. Yet I don't see how Christians or converts to Christianity pose such a danger.

Also persecution against Christians in Muslim countries are not only instigated by ultra militant Muslims but often by the general-majority Muslim alongside the police and the authorities.

One of my Christian friends was arrested for blasphemy some years ago, he was jailed without trial, badly tortured by the police and local maulvies, kept in ice cold water for days and had his belly opened. He did not pose a danger to the country neither was he persecuted by militants or by a corrupted police system, but merely because he was a Christian.

El-Cid said...

Hogan Elijah said: "Some of my Christian contacts from Muslim countries estimate that the majority of Muslim males engage in homosexuality while in their teens. The problem relates to the strict separation of males and females in Muslim societies."

Indeed. A life-long friend of mine moved to Saudi Arabia when his father took an engineering job there. His stories were quite eye-opening. While he had many positive experiences and found great hospitality amongst many Saudis, not all was positive. He was harrassed in a sexual nature by Saudi men often (he was a 16 year old at the time mind you), and has family's stay in Saudi Arabia ended upbruptly after he was chased on foot by a group of Saudi whom he believed intended to rape him one night.

Elijah said: "...he was jailed without trial, badly tortured by the police and local maulvies, kept in ice cold water for days and had his belly opened..."

Wow, that is terrible :-(. I read a story of a Muslim man in the Middle-East who was arrested and tortured because he was falsely accused of apostasy (I think it was a case of mistaken identity). The experience of the torture actually led to him truly leaving Islam a short time later. What a sad situation that people have to live under governments that treat their people in such a way.

Bassam said...

Hogan said: “Homosexuality is actually a much greater problem in Muslim countries than the West. Some of my Christian contacts from Muslim countries estimate that the majority of Muslim males engage in homosexuality while in their teens.”

With all due respect, your friends are liars and greatly mistaken. There is no proof for such utter nonsense.

Hogan said: “The problem relates to the strict separation of males and females in Muslim societies.”

Oh yeah, I’m sure segregation would explain the cause for homosexuality being so widespread in California and Europe.

El-Cid said...

Bassam said (to Hogan): "With all due respect, your friends are liars and greatly mistaken. There is no proof for such utter nonsense."

I have had discussions with Muslims, former Muslims, Arab Christians, Arab atheists, and Arab agnostics, all of whom are of Middle-East extraction who confirm exactly what Hogan's sources are saying.

Not only that, but I have 2 close American friends (who are brothers) that lived in KSA when they were in high school. They were both routinely harrassed by the local men in a sexual nature (their other western friends received the same treatment. It seems American/European young men are particularly targets of such behavior in the Gulf States).

Bassam, if you are not aware of these things, I believe it is either because you aren't paying attention, are in denial, or because you associate with a group of people that doesn't conduct themselves in such ways.

Perhaps I shouldn't be too surprised if you are honestly making a denial of such things, seeing as how this topic is "taboo" in Islamic culture. People go to great lengths to hide such behavior. It is rather naive of you to say it doesn't happen, however.

I have had numerous conversations about this topic with perfectly trustworthy and sincere people. The majority of them were Muslims (nominal Muslims, but believers in the Quran nonetheless). I wonder why the testimony I am hearing from you has you sitting as the odd-man-out on this topic?

shafsha711 said...

Islamizaition of egytpians is a very common atory, ubfortuantely become more common recently, Which I think cause muslims are getting angry and afraid from Father Zakaria Botros.

Let me tell you more How things happensmin egypt.

The most common story, is that ISLAMIC GROUPS deal with young teenager coptic gurls, through muslims girl friend or directly with a guy; both are getting pait per case of conversion. Usually the guy will try to pretend love, and say religion is not important at the beginning, then the love get stronger, and he will convince her that her family will not allow such a marriage because of religion, and she decide to escape to live with him (take in consideration they are teenager). All of a sudden , the family cant find their daughter, they report to the police.

Here comes the role of the police for those of you who are asking. Police is always on the side of islam, and will always prevent conversion to christianity but facilitate conversion to islam.

So Police will do nothing usually, unless the issue is raised up higher, and copts protest against this. So police start to take action, fearing public. Usually the gurl, become already destroyed, through different things, mind washing, video tapped in porn actions, rumors ..etc.

So the gurl refuses to return to her family, and claims that she is muslim, and dont wanna revert anymore.

The family then tries to get their daughter back, and sometimes they become successful to get the daughter back. But if this happened, Muslims go really mad, and decalre that christians are forcing a muslim gurl to become christian against her will. And they make violent moves against the churches, and they claim that christians kiddnaping this now considered muslim gurl, and then muslims go against the government, claiming how this could happen in a muslims Country ?!!

And previosuly it was allowed that a convert should have a council interview with a preacher, then after that decide, this was cancelled, to make islamization easier !!!

These stories unfortunatly are so repeated in Egypt, and they dont have to pass through all these stages, but could stop at any of them.

this is one of the famous cases that happened in Egypt: Wafaa Costanteen (was a wife of quadriplegic priest, now muslims claim tha she is being tortured in monasteries!!)