I was going to wait until James finished this series before I posted it, but it seems the series is going to take a long time. James discusses the arguments of Joshua Evans, a former "Youth Minister" who converted to Islam based on careful (ha!) research.
What I find interesting is that, as I listen to Joshua's presentation, I'm aware of the fact that the vast majority of Muslims will be highly impressed with his claims. And yet practically everything that comes out of his mouth is false. This is what I've come to expect from the "Deen Show."
PART ONE
PART TWO
PART THREE
68 comments:
I have been asserting of late that it is indeed rare to find a Muslim apologist who isn't:
a) ignorant of Christianity, the Bible and Christian doctrine;
b) intentionally disingenuous in regards to describing Christianity, the Bible and Christian doctrine;
or
c) both a & b.
The more I witness and read materials from these Islamic "apologists" the more I am proven to be correct.
Carl said... a lot of true things... well pointed!!! That's what I'me beeing try to explaine...
after hearing joshua one can easily thro him out for his ignorance about the bible.
if joshue ready then i can debate with him thru mails and i promise to throw him out from the ring in to mails exhange!!!
Islam changed my life to a path of righteousness & god. Like Br. Joshua Adams I found the truth. In the Quran I found clear guidance and free of the numerous errors & inconsistences I noted in the Bible we have today- which numerous biblical scholars have acknowledged. Whoever the writers of this book was - no one knows for sure.
Peace be upon you....
I am a mulsim and i have read Bible new and Old testeeamts, And i feel the same way as Joshua feels,
Christian are lost as it comes in Quran and most of them wont found the way.There is no proof what main stream Christinity claims to be true teaching of Jesus is the real deal it is all Myth. And you guys so treathened when one of you guys Like joshua found the truth. Come on , open your hearts and truly question waht you believing not just what have you been told but what your rational take you.
I've refuted Joshua claims here:
http://101-bible-contradictions-answered.blogspot.com/2009/08/refuting-yusha-evans.html
The guy didn't got the facts straight.
I also applied over Qur'an the same principles that Joshua Evans applied on Bible.
You can find here:
http://101-bible-contradictions-answered.blogspot.com/2009/09/few-observations-about-noble-quran-from.html
To Lina:
The problem with Islam is the lake of a God that is a loving Father.
Paul.
How come theres so many people converting to islam and going around and telling people the truth if any other religion was the truth wouldnt we find people converting from islam to that religion and preaching it. Do you people see the chain??? Open your eyes. I Never saw 1 video from a former muslim converted to any religion. Why?
Yahya,
You've never seen a video of a Muslim who's converted to another religion??? You must not be looking. You can watch close to 70 videos of former Muslims here:
http://www.muslimjourneytohope.com/watch.asp
Now if Islam is a true religion, why are so many people leaving it? Do you really like this way of arguing?
Hi David this is just one site and i know theres many more but let me ask you another question so you can understand because i dont think you get the point im trying to make. The churches in America i see are always empty, only on sundays do i see a few people there, but as muslims our masjids are populated 5 times a day. Another question how many people come to your church every month to appect christianity? In almost every masjid all over north america there are about 1-2 conversions every month. And in big masjids in big cites even more. Why? Why are people converting to a lie? The problem is america was tricked into thinking islam is a baseless religion but now people are opening their minds.
Yahya,
I do get the point you're trying to make. But your point is just plain silly. You're claiming that since some people are converting to Islam, it must be the truth. This is absolutely absurd. People are converting to Islam because Muslims lie to them and tell them that Islam is peaceful, that it promotes women's rights, that it is confirmed by science, etc. People convert because they're ignorant of what Islam really teaches. When people find out what Islam really teaches, they often leave Islam, which is why there are so many former Muslims.
well i dont want to keep arguing if you believe your on the truth like we do so just do one thing. Ask God to show you the right path Number 1. And Number 2 ask him O God if im on the right path keep me firm on it. Thats all the argument is finished. We are all from the same mother and father and im sure we wont want to see each other go to hell.
Nice talking to you.
Take Care
Peace be unto all,
James has made a few valid points but I believe the bigger question is "Is the Bible the word of God" or the words of men (dozens of them) written over centuries and full of contradictions/interpolations and mixed messages. We encourage all people of conscience to study the bible in its entirety and then compare it to the Holy Quran which is the direct word of God unchanged and completed during the life of the final messanger of God, Muhammad.
Read the book "Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why"
What about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx434UE3SYw
I have five things to say. They are as follows:
1. Prayer is meant to be towards a being of higher power. A conversation is when one just speaks to another. Jesus prayed many times (Matthew 17: 20-24), he did not speak. He showed praise to a God and so how could he have been a part of an eternal God when all he did was pray to the eternal God?
2. The Muslims on The Deen show, did not fight Christians with denial and negativity. They never said Christians are wrong. All they focused on was Jesus. This guy, James White, truly does insult Islam and Muslims and doesn't focus on a topic. Don't you think this is hatred?
3. I'm white and most white people out there are pretty race conscious. How can they truly understand (the ones who do this) what faith is when they claimed to be believers but enslaved so many people before as a result of pride etc?
4. Like the host of The Deen show said, why don't we go back to believing like Adam and Abraham etc. did? They never mentioned Jesus. He, Jesus, was only mentioned when he appeared in the bible. God is what is important!!!!
5. Jesus is Jesus. Islam's Jesus is not different from Christianity's Jesus. The idea about him is different but that does not make the person different. Also, how could he be portrayed? According to experts, there is no living proof of how he or any other prophet looked (check out Wikipedia which is really up to date). How can you make mockery of somebody's look according to your perception when human's are not perfect?
Please people, it's time to get logical here.
Cheers!
This guy looks very proud and arrogant like most Christians out there. I'd choose those gentle Muslims at any time.
When a Muslims states we love Jesus it is because we recognize that he is a prophet sent by God to spread a message. We love ever prophet God sent and to love someone is to know someone. It is foolish to say we don't know anything about Jesus and the Quran vaguely mentions him. There's an entire book called Maryam that discusses not only Jesus but his mother. There is a reason why the Quran does not dwell on Jesus like your modern day bible does. The reason is why dwell on the creation and not the creator? Islam came to bring back the focus that Paul took away from those who actually knew Jesus. Islam came to help people break free of Paul's false teachings of Christ. All the time Jesus were alive he preached the belief of One God and never once mentioned a trinity. That is why God told Jesus to go only unto the Jews and not the Romans. During that time Romans were known to make gods out of men and long behold look what Paul helped happen. Don't begin to tell me that you can actually put your faith completely in a doctrine that no longer exist anywhere...the present day bible you read is far from the original and that is why God sent Islam. I really feel sorry for you, may Allah (SWT) lead you to the righteous path. Because all you are doing is allowing satan to use you as a tool, I say that because of statements you made "I don't know the Jesus Muslims claim to love". What is that? There is only one Jesus, and One God. It is foolish to imply that we are worshiping a god different of Christians and Jews. Satan is the master of dividing the true believers and letting them lose focus of who the true enemy is and trust me, it is NOT a Muslim. Muslims have a reverence of God therefore we believe and love everything He gives to us. We don't deny Jesus, we do deny God having partners or a son. God is of no need of such things. Lastly, I must state instead of fighting about the differences in our beliefs your energy would be better used uniting our common belief in God, our desire to be pleasing in His sight and to one day join Him in heaven.
Yahya,
I would rather be Heaven with my Creator God, Savior, Reedmer Jesus Christ with a few than in Hell with many because I rejected Christ which will happen to those like Joshua (sadly) if they don't turn and repent and receive Christ because He alone is the atonement for sin once and for all!
For it is said:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." Matthew 7:13
Ibrahim, Who was their when Mohamed received the "revelation from the angel Gabriel? In Islam you need 4 witnesses to collaborate if it was the truth and the event happened. How then was Mohamed believed? Did he not have to go to his then wife Khadisha and they talked on whether it was a jinn or an angel and came to the conclusion it was an angel? This is a very odd thing if this was truly revelation from God. In the Bible God make Himself quite clear when He spoke and the true prophets of God did not doubt when He gave them a message. What proof do you have Ibrahim that the Koran is the authoritative word of God - after all Jesus said in the Book of Revelation "And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book." Rev. 22:19
Provide strong evidence that the Koran is from God and don't use so called scientific evidence from Koran that has been disproven and is not proof that God spoke to Mohamed.
Please respond with clear evidence and not from the Hadith which are not the Word of God.
I notice a tendency with Joshua Evans not to complete the entire Bible verse, it almost as though it is hard for him to say and if he actually gives the entire scripture on air to Muslims they might see that it is actually true - it is almost like he gets stuck mid sentence and decides no I had better not repeat that verse completly because that might be a powerful truth.
Another observation. Why then if God "does not beat around the bush" as Joshua says, then why was it not clear to Mohamed if the spirit was an angel or a jinn?
Can any explain this video that is a Christian? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf-P_5u_Hw
Dr White & the keepers of this blog,
Every morning I will thank God for the work you are doing to spread the truth about Christ and correct the evil errors Muhammad unleashed upon the earth. May God build you up, keep you safe and healthy and give you wise words to speak - & may you never forget the Cross. Amen.
I think it is funny how all the Muslims here are preaching tolerance and the Christians are preaching hate and intolerance. I refuse to even watch the videos because I know they will be full of ignorance. I refuse to break the peace Allah has given me just to see it. I am a recent convert and I am a white American girl. I have never been particularly religious though I have always tried to be a good person. When my fiance converted I was devastated because I would have to convert if I wished to marry him. I did not want to call myself something I wasn't (unlike many Christians today who don't even follow the teachings of Jesus, peace be upon him, and the Bible). But we made an oath of trust that I would believe him and try it. He was in an extremely bad situation being homeless for 2 months and Allah had provided him food and money when he asked. I knew there was some truth. After 2 weeks of consistent prayer and squashing the doubts Shitan whispered in my ear, I finally felt this amazing and overwhelming sensation of joy and peace. I had finally understood Truth. No one had to tell me. I read on my own. Allah then fixed my life and lifted my veil so that I could see clearly. Before I wondered aimlessly only moving deeper into darkness.
The only thing keeping anyone (including Christians) from converting to Islam and understanding Truth is pride. Your pride stands in your way and you side with the jinn (demons) who will not bow to those they feel superior to. You will not bow to God as God. You don't want to be wrong or see things differently. Islam came to correct the mistakes of man and former Knowledge that was sent and perverted.
If you have no pride and are humble as God wills, you will bow to him and ask him to guide you perfectly as he wishes. You put too much importance on wordly things such as money and traditions. It is only your arrogance that speaks when you claim to know better than God.
If you truly loved Jesus(pbuh), then you would be following his teachings of love, compassion, charity, and humility. Most adult Christians are hateful, racist, and act as though they know all that God knows and can enact punishment against others in his name.
But it does not matter. We are told not to worry with those who we cannot help or show the path, for Allah has cursed them with veiled eyes to wonder deeper into sin and despair. Allah saves who he wills. If you gave Islam a chance to touch your heart, surely you would be overcome with joy and enlightened by Allah himself.
It has completely changed my life so truly you all do not know what you are talking about when you speak hate against Islam and your own God you claim to love.
I wrote a bunch of stuff but it disappeared so here goes a shorter one: I am a newly converted Muslim white American girl. 21 years old. Wasn't really religious but more like an agnostic. Always have tried to be a good person. Never liked Christianity because I met too many hypocrites. I liked their God even less when I became a pagan 2 years ago. Buy my fiance was homeless and had an experience that led him to converting to Islam. I was very upset because I felt strongly against converting (I would need to to marry him). But we spoke and I allowed myself to let go of my pride and trust my fiance. After 2 weeks of prayer and squashing doubts whispered in my ear by Shitan, I suddenly became overwhelmed with happiness and peace. My heart told me this was Allah. And he began to fix things in my life. I felt as though I could see life clearly and connected to the parts of the Qur'an that spoke of Unbelievers having veiled eyes. My life had gotten really bad before that. No one will truly understand Islam's Truth until they get over their pride and submit to God as their creator. It is truly an AMAZING experience.
And we are told to not worry ourselves with those who will not accept the message of Allah or do not wish to be saved, for Allah has cursed them with veiled eyes and they will continue to wander in despair. All I see in the comments of these Christians is arrogance and pride. They claim to know what God knows. That they may be our judges and punishers in his name. You must not truly fear God. Those who are true Christians as taught by Jesus, peace be upon him, find it easy to accept Islam.
People like you are spoken of in the Qur'an over and over and over again. If only you could learn to read. Peace and happiness are more important than anger and dominance. Yusha Evans is such a smart man reminds me a lot of my fiance. He put the Bible to the test and it failed. End of story.
Hi Danielle,
I posted your story on the front page, along with some questions. Since you've condemned all of us, I hope you'll take time to answer our questions. (Sadly, when we start asking questions, most Muslims simply say, "Oh, you're filled with hate and pride," and then we don't hear from them again.)
Dr White's point 'how can you say you love Jesus when you deny him?' is interesting. I wondered 'How can you say you loved Jesus?' when I watched Shadid Lewis explain how he converted from Christianity to Islam. He said that he just didn't find any reason not to sin in Christianity, because Jesus had already paid the cost on the cross. I thought 'How can you claim to love someone if their very life is so cheap to you?'. The Chinese emperor was a little boy, and when he was naughty, a servant was beaten in his stead, since no one could beat the emperor. Now, how long would you continue to be naughty if you loved the person who was beaten in your stead?
Danielle,
Honey if you are reading this, 86 that user/loser you are engaged to, yesterday!
He is not at all like James White. I bet James White has always held down some kind of a job and kept a roof over his head.
Go ahead, Ask him! Just ask: Mr White, have you ever been homeless and hungry and in a "bad situation" and gotten yourself a girlfriend in the meantime?
And what was this "bad situation?" Maybe you could clarify, because you are scaring us to death, little girl.
I'll tell everyone here a secret, instead of fighting each other why dont we all ask god to show us all right path? Theres only 1 God and only 1 True path. And if A person asks him sincerely he will never let him down. Before we sleep everyday make a prayer and cry. Ask God in that prayer to open your heart to the right way. Do it before death overtakes you and its too late.
Yahya, I'd imagine that most people here have done that - it's just that they got a different answer to you. Yes there is only one God but if you think the people here aren't Muslims simply because we haven't cried out to God or opened our hearts to "the truth", or we're too stubborn to accept submission to Allah etc etc, you're wrong. There are plenty of reasons for anybody to dismiss Islam as false.
I have a feeling that Danielle may not ever respond to the comments, questions, and suggestions placed before her on this blog. I am confident my Christian brethren will keep her in their prayers.
Sophie,
When did i say in my message islam is the true path, I said whatever the true path is. Muslims five times a day in every prayer say the same prayer "O God Guide us to the Straight path" How many times a day do you ask? As i said before i dont want to argue theres no use. We all wish good for each other. But We must understand the truth before its too late....
Yahya,
It's very clearly implicit in what you said that you believe Islam to be the true path and that if we ask God to show us the true path he'll say 'It's Islam'. That is your presumption, not mine. Don't say I put words in your mouth just because I noticed the obvious. I was simply pointing out that there are a lot of non-Muslims who ask that and don't get the answer 'Islam'.
Oh, and actually you Muslims don't ask God to guide you to the truth. You ask God to guide you 'to the straight path', not to the path of 'those who have incurred Your wrath or those who have gone astray'. When asked if those who have incurred Allah's wrath and those who have gone astray were Jews and Christians, Muhammad said 'who else?' (ie, 'yes').
Therefore what you actually ask is 'God, guide me to the straight path as long as it's not Judaism or Christianity' - so really, what you're basically saying is 'Guide me to the straight path as long as it's Islam'. If your method of discerning the truth is correct, then you need to say to God 'God, guide me to the truth even if it's not Islam; I will accept the truth of Who You are, whatever that truth is, even if it's not Islam'. Which being a Muslim, is something you might never have said.
This is for Yahya: "How come theres so many people converting to islam and going around and telling people the truth if any other religion was the truth wouldnt we find people converting from islam to that religion and preaching it. Do you people see the chain??? Open your eyes. I Never saw 1 video from a former muslim converted to any religion. Why?"....
Yahya, you raised a valid point that there does "seem" to be more videos of converts to Islamic conversions than converts to Christianity... Well, the reason is simple, while the so-called converts to Islam can proudly put up videos parading what they feel is the truth of Islam, converts from Islam to Christianity cannot do the same for fear of persecution by the "Religion of peace" based on the punishment for apostasy as taught by Mohammed (hope u read the newspapers and UN stats). I personally know many many converts from Islam to Christianity who are "secret believers" since many of them have been beaten up, threatened with death for themselves, etc.
One sweet sister in Dubai (only child) whom I know personally was told categorically by her father "It would have been better for you to become a prostitute than to become a Christian"... her mother protected her from being hacked to death by her once loving father. She has now run away from Dubai and now lives in fear in India.
If you take into consideration the innumerable "honor killings" and persecution of apostates in Muslim and even non-Muslim countries, this is just a small small tip of an iceberg.
Apostates in Muslim countries have to appear before magistrates, Maulanas and even psychiatrists to put forward their case for conversion... that is assuming no one kills them before that. The law machinery in which case looks the other way since that is what Mohammed preached and did (Surah 33:21)... does such treatment apply to converts from Christianity to Islam?????
Question that YOU NEED TO PONDER upon Yahya is: "what will be the Islamic population in the world if by some freak behavior pattern, Muslims stop persecuting and killing apostates and give the Christian response of "We will keep them in our prayers" ????
Naren I respect your views. But the videos ive seen of converts from islam have no serious proofs. They are all based on things the people didnt like to follow. For example in islam women have to cover themselves. It doesnt mean they have no rights but its for thier own protection. So you find women who converted say we converted because islam is too hard for women etc. But if you look on the other hand Thousands of videos of new muslims all have many different arguments. Scientific, Logical etc. Not just i didnt like it so im trying something else. Anyways as i said we should all pray to god every night to guide us all to Paradise. Ameen.
Dear Yahya,
Great to hear from you.
The wonderful Ravi Zacharias well said, most of the Muslim converts will quote one of the two reasons to convert:
1. A real life vision of the true and omnipresent Yeshua (testimonies on: http://www.isaalmasih.net/).
2. The sacrificial love of another Christian.
I agree with you 100% in your discussion with Sophie that Muslims pray five times a day asking the Lord to show them the true path. And, true to His word, Jeremiah 29:13 "You shall look for ME and find ME when you shall look with all of your heart", those who utter these words do find Him, even if that entails the LORD appearing personally to them (testimonies on: http://www.isaalmasih.net/). A good example will also be Gulshan Fatima, descendant of Mohammed, now known as Gushan Esther, author of the book "The torn veil". Surprisingly, her vision of the Lord bought her health, healing and life transformation and NOT splitting headaches, nausea, seizures and feelings to jump off a mountain as in the case of Mohammed. You decide brother, as to who had a vision of the true LORD.
Well, I understand what you say about the videos but if you look at it, that further reiterates the point I made which is that most of the strong Muslim converts (to Christianity) cannot post out their views and testimonies since they have been persecuted phenomenally... I have already given an example in my previous post. Another convert I know, his 27 year old son was slaughtered in broad daylight with his neck sawed off with a saw which is used for cutting wood. His friends offered to revenge the killing but his response was heart touching "This is not what my Christ wants me to do. My son is dead and happy with Yeshua, he cannot come back, someday I will go to be with him". He is a very well learned Maulana who converted to Christianity when he noticed the inconsistency in the character of Mohammed, the shady revelations that he received, his self glorification, his change in message with change in his power stance, the "fruits of Mohammed's sunna" and ofcourse the obvious plagiarized content from the Bible and other cultures. Do you think he can put up his testimony online after what him and his family has been through?
There is another wonderful guy who knows and can quote the full Quran, Bible and also most of the Hadiths who changed over to Christianity. He came to Christ after spending most of his life understanding Islam for the exact reasons quoted above. He changes residence every year following threats to his life and that of his family. Do you think he can put up his testimony online after what they are going through.
So, in essence, agreeing with YOU my dear brother Yahya, most of the Muslim converts can put up testimonies quoting only "feel good" factors since they themselves and many others fear violent and severe persecutions from the "Religion of peace". This is the personal testimony of scores of secret believers in the Middle East, Africa, Indonesia, etc. For those who profess openly have no option but to be killed or live in hiding.
In the words of the famous atheist convert - Lee Strobel, "Are you willing to follow the evidence and accept as a man of integrity the logical outcome"... those brothers and sisters who honestly investigated the case for and against Christ did find HIM.
GOD BLESS.
Naren, You have said that new converts from islam are scared to post their videos, Yes i can accept that about muslim countries. But what about america? Where there is freedom of speech, freedom of rights who are they scared of here?? And anyways lets say for a moment they are, so cant all the new converts put up videos without their faces? Since there are soo many? There should be half as much. Shouldnt there? Ive never met a muslim scholar who converted you said about a moulana who converted thats the 1st one ive heard of. But personally met many priests who converted to islam. Why? If we say the sun is not there and close or eyes it wont disappear the sun is still there. We must all submit the creator of the heavens and the earth not to anyone else.
Dear Yahya,
Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The Life, no one comes to the Father, except through the Son (John 14:16). and all judgment has been given to the Son. Also, John 1:1-5.
In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning and through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was mad that has been made. In Him was life and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness and the darkness did not comprehend. John1:14 The Word (Jesus) became flesh and lived among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only who came from the Father, full of grace and Truth.
Believe in the Lord Jesus - Messiah, Redeemer and God of all and be saved. John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son, so who ever believes in Him (Jesus) will not perish, but have everlasting life.
Amen
Patti
(Response in two consecutive postings)
Dear Yahya,
Great to hear from you. I have addressed all your queries and more in the mail below, please do go thru the same.
Well firstly, let me clarify that the examples I gave was from India (I am from India) and Not a Muslim country. If this is the level of persecution in India, then you can only imagine what will be the state in a Muslim country.
Well, I don't understand fully the relevance of the point you are trying to make. The internet is full of tonnes of testimonies of people who left Islam for various other faiths including Christianity. You seem to be interested only in Muslim converts in the US... looking at it from an outsider's point on view, I can see the foll reasons:
1. Americans seem more inclined for the latest fad or the "in thing".
2. They are converting by the tonnes into many faiths such as New Age religions, Hinduism,
Buddhism, Atheism, etc... coupled with false propaganda by the media such as ABC news, there are converts to Islam too... but what does it prove??? NOTHING !!!
3. The behavior of namesake Christians especially in Hollywood and also the functioning of Roman catholicism and Anglicans adds fuel to fire. Their behavior have NO substantiation in the Bible but people need excuses and they find it.
In short, the conversions in America can be summed up very well into 2 Tim 4:3-4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
A conversion is in two phases- leaving a faith on some criterion and accepting another faith on hopefully the same criterion.
Similar to what you say, I can also say that almost all the Christian converts to Islam or any other religion have the same arguments such as understanding the Trinity, Divinity of Christ and corruption idea which becomes their reason for leaving Christianity. But, their reason for believing is mostly the same "I felt good about it" and if it is a woman then "I felt complete in the Hijab" without knowing the condition of hijab wearing women in Islamic countries who are learning martial arts to protect themselves from being fondled in the marketplaces.
Case and point will be the new blue eyed boy of Islam and socalled "debater" - Shahid Lewis. If you refer to his debates with Nabeel Qureshi, you will notice Nabeel giving objective reasons and Shahid's reasons include "Christians persecuted the blacks/Christians consider blacks to be the descendants of Cain and hence are persecuted, the Bible is full of Love and Grace"... in all seriousness, this is the first time, I heard anyone complain above love and grace... absolutely NO objectivity and totally refuted by Nabeel. Refer his debate with Dr.David Wood on the crucifixion, he had no content other than theatrics and ZERO objectivity.
Part 1 of 2
Part 2 of 2
Refer to the conversion of Paul Williams (debated Nabeel Qureshi) again... another so called debater... his reasons were the same "Trinity, Divinity of Christ and corruption idea"... His reasons for believing in Islam "I felt peace and could found it easy to understand"
I am not saying that these doctrinal facts of Trinity, Divinity of Christ and corruption idea are easy to understand but all the arguments against these doctrinal facts have been refuted from the times of the early church itself but it requires someone to come humbly into His presence like a child and ask for His Spirit to explain the queries. Even after
decades of being written, some of the finest brains are still discovering the full implication of Einstein's theory of relativity. So, if time and energy are required for understanding the work of man, how much more effort should be put in for understanding the Word of God????
Case and point would be the testimony of Hassan: http://answering-islam.org/Testimonies/hassan.html. As a Christian, he was plagued with the same questions and left Christ for Islam. But, he didnt stop investigating and Yeshua was true to His Word "Seek and you will find"... he got the truth in the Bible itself and has now returned to Christ... Without any death threats or any coercion from the true religion of peace (Christianity).
I am particularly surprised that you dont know any Maulana who has left Islam to embrace Christianity. I am surprised that you are dwelling on converts in the US but have just waived off the thousands of Muslims who have converted to Christianity against all odds in Islam's own backyard... the Middle East:
M A Gabriel - The former professor of Islamic history at Al-Azhar University, Cairo, Egypt:
http://www.arabicbible.com/testimonies/gabriel.htm
Sultan Muhammed Paul - Islamic Apologist:
http://www.the-good-way.com/en/xml/en-7845-lit-christian.html#First+Encounter+with+Christians
Testimonies of Arabic speaking people who accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior.
http://www.arabicbible.com/testimonies/testimonial.htm
Testimonies of over 100 ex-Muslims who became Christians
http://answering-islam.org/Testimonies/index.html
Finally to repeat what I had earlier posted, from the convert Ravi Zacharias "Most of the Muslim converts will quote one of the two reasons to convert:
1. A real life vision of the true and omnipresent Yeshua (testimonies on: http://www.isaalmasih.net/).
2. The sacrificial love of another Christian."Please do visit: http://morethandreams.org/ and also "www.isaalmasih.net". I am sure you will say that this is hallucination or of the devil. You will say that even though their lives changed for the best including that of a terrorist. But, you will somehow not apply the same standards to Muhammad who received revelations which he thought was of the devil, turned from a peace loving, single wife husband to having atleast 13 wives (including a 6 year old) and was responsible for the slaughter of atleast 1500 people. In today's time, whose teaching creates terrorists by the tonnes and is responsible for most of the terror attacks in the world.
In closing, I quote Dr.James White "I am waiting for the consistent Muslim".
Naren,
As i see the videos of converts from islam, there is no proof just something they didnt like. We are in a educated world we know science, we have proofs. The Quran is proving things science only found out with modern technology. How many Muslim Scientists converted after reading the bible? And anyway which bible should they read theres soo many? And what your saying about seeing a vision thats fine. But we cant base everything on visions is that all the converts have as proof to why they converted? How can we prove a vision to the whole world. And the things you said about the Prophet were because you have not read about him.
The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History is a 1978 book by Michael H. Hart, reprinted in 1992 with revisions. It is a ranking of the 100 people who, according to Hart, most influenced human history.[1]
The first person on Hart's list is Muhammad.[2] Hart asserted that Muhammad was "supremely successful" in both the religious and secular realms. He also believed that Muhammad's role in the development of Islam was far more influential than Jesus' collaboration in the development of Christianity. He attributes the development of Christianity to St. Paul, who played a pivotal role in its dissemination.
You really need to do some reading before you say things like that. Its shows you really have little knowledge about him. And from this you can see muslims never degrade Jesus. Because we respect him. But christians always say negitive things about Muhammed.Peace be upon him and all the prophets. May Allah guide us all. Ameen
Dear Yahya,
Surprised to read your response bro... First you say in your writeup that "I Never saw 1 video from a former Muslim converted to any religion. Why?" then David sends you some testimonies... then you say "not a single Muslim converts on logic" to which I send you testimonies ... then you say "Not a single Muslim scientist" I can send you that too but then it will be a waste of time since I am sure that you will raise some more ifs and buts to that.
With regards to the scientific accuracy of the Quran, there is enough information to confirm that most if not all of the "facts" were existing in the early Greek and Jewish books. For eg, according to Mohammaed: "Under one wing of the fly is the disease and under the other is the cure". I know what your response to that is going to be. But, to cut the discussion short, I CHALLENGE you to take a few houseflys, dunk them into cups of milk and feed them to your children. Since, by your very "fact", there should be a neutralising effect. Or, better, have six dates and try some arsenic perhaps as per the logic of Mohammed, they will neutralise... didn't work for Mohammed, hope it works this time for you.
You quote Michael Hart from Hart publications but that is his own personal opinion... who is he and on what authority and standards ??? Mahatma Gandhi who set the standards for non-violence in the world and is called the "Father of the Nation" in India was deeply influenced by Christ and His teachings... Not Muhammed's (thank God for that) ??? Now, by your very own logic, will you accept the position of Christ over that of Mohammed
Christianity is about the change within one person at a time, not conquering one country at a time (please don't reply with the Crusades, we both know what it was about). I never cease to be amazed how Muslims waive off the powerful and mighty changes bought about in a person when he comes to Christ. These visions are for the conviction of one person at a time... the world can then see the metamorphosis in that person and decide on the origin of the vision. I am seriously at a loss of words at the ease with which Muslims reject these awesome testimonies which can be nothing less than from God but fall head over heels on the "visions" of Mohammed.
I always use the standard set by Christ to identify false prophets "By their fruits you shall know them". The day to day happenings in my country, in your country and across the world are a testimony to the fruits of Mohammed and his sunna.
Tim Keller, The Reason for God, pg. xix
"The only way to doubt Christianity rightly and fairly is to discern the alternate belief under each of your doubts and then ask yourself what reasons you have for believing it. How do you know your belief is true? It would be inconsistent to require more justification for Christian belief than you do for your own, but that is frequently what happens. In fairness you must doubt your doubts. My thesis is that if you come to recognize the beliefs on which your doubts about Christianity are based, and if you seek as much proof for those beliefs as you seek from Christians for theirs – you will discover that your doubts are not as solid as they first appeared."
So, using the same standards that you apply to Christianity, please tell me what makes you feel that I have not read the Quran. Using the same standards, tell me, which of my points against Mohammed are figments of my imagination.
In closing, I quote Dr.James White AGAIN "I am waiting for the consistent Muslim".
Yahya,
With regards to your point (and that of other Muslims) on Christianity being an invention of Apostle Paul. All that you and others have to support your theories are the redaction theories of Raymond Brown, etc for which there is not an iota of evidence in the early Christian church. I CHALLENGE YOU to find me a single teaching of Paul which cannot be referred back to the Old testament or to the Gospels.
If the early church didn't agree with the teachings of Paul, the same would have had some documentary evidence. But, on the other hand, even the apostles supported and respected Paul.
Bro., please tell me, Paul who went around killing and persecuting Christians, after an encounter with Christ, dedicates his life to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Leaves out all covetousness, personal glory, etc and is finally martyred for Christ. This man is rejected by Muslims as a fake and a cheat. But, Mohammed who after one socalled encounter ends up from a peace loving, single wife, trader to killing, marrying numerous wives and concubines, plundering caravans, etc and finally is poisoned and dies a shameful death... This man's teaching you accept as from God... Talk about fruits and consistent analysis.
I hope that you have pondered at the numerous conversions to Christianity in Islam's own backyard. 6 Million leave Islam for Christ in Africa alone which equates to 16438 per day. What will be the Muslim population in the Middle east, Nigeria, Indonesia, etc if the persecution of converts stop.
If the Quran is such a marvel of science, then why does the Middle east and other Sharia countries have the lowest literacy rates, least number of students-universities ratio, least number of Nobel prize, etc... Even with all the free money from oil and even endowed with the most "tech savvy" Quran, why do the people live still like barbarians ??
You are right that many so called Christians are leaving the faith... but as Christ said in Matt 7:13,14 "“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
True Christianity is not popular (Matt 7:13, Luke 6:26, 2 Tim 3:12). It includes self denial (Matt 7:12, Matt 16:24-26) and it takes effort (Luke 13:24).
Jesus had only 12 disciples... does not mean that His teachings were wrong...
May the wisdom of the Most High open your eyes.
GOD BLESS
Naren
To understand Christianity fufther, could I interpret that "if Jesus & the Father is one and the same - CAN I SAY THAT JESUS IS ALSO THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS ALSO JESUS. Thank you.
Dear Rawi,
You have asked a question which is central to the Christian belief called as the "Holy Trinity". Instead of reinventing the wheel, I encourage you to download and listen to a wonderful session by Doctor James White called "The forgotten Trinity"... will help you understand the importance of Trinity not just to the Christians but the wholesomeness of God to the rest of the non-Christian world.
You can download the session from:
http://beemp3.com/download.php?file=1114857&song=The+Forgotten+Trinity
There are quite a few more questions on the Divinity of Christ and the Trinity in the Holy Bible raised by Muslims and others which have been answered a million times. You can look up the answers on www.answeringislam.org.
Hope this helps... GOD BLESS
Naren
Rawi,
In answer to your question
"To understand Christianity fufther, could I interpret that "if Jesus & the Father is one and the same - CAN I SAY THAT JESUS IS ALSO THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS ALSO JESUS. Thank you."
This is how Jesus described His oneness with His Father.
John 17:11 "I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
Hi,
Assuming all of you christians were in the right path,i hope one of you can answer my question."What is the key to heaven?".If you cant answer this,please ask you respective priest and if they also cant answer or they dont want to answer,i can say all of you are really just ignorant person not worth talking to.
ei
The key to heaven is the grace of Jesus Christ.
Hah,1 wrong answer.since when jesus can forgive other mans sins?one man rob a bank then he repent.can you tell me who will forgive the mans sin?priest who just a mortal?who gave the authority?paul?ANSWER MY FIRST QUESTION.IF YOU JUST ANSWER WITH YOUR OWN OPINION,THEN I CAN SAY YOU ARE IGNORANT INFEDEL.ASK YOUR POPE,PRIEST,REV,OR WHATEVER POSITION YOU HAVE IN YOUR RELIGION.DONT COME ANSWERING ME WITH SOME STUPID WORD.
Jesus is God therefore He is the only One who can forgive sin! Amen.
ie, you just affirmed my point "a)" above.
ei, I don't need to ask any priests, etc, etc for the answer to your quiz. I can go above the heads of any human being on earth for my answer, if that helps you understand.
You might not know that only God can forgive sins. However, scripture that was revealed before Mohammad asserts this. Obviously humans can forgive each other, but, even if he is a peace with his fellow man, the man needs God to forgive him for the sin still polluting his soul.
When you read the law of Moses, you can clearly understand that the Israelites understood this. They never asked anyone except God for forgiveness of their own individual sins, or the sins of their nation.
Matthew was an eyewitness to the life and times of Jesus, when he walked on the earth, and so we know that what Matthew wrote about what Jesus said and taught was not second hand information.
In addition, even the Jews who wrote the Talmud acknowledged that Jesus performed miraculous acts, although they attibuted it to magic and sorcery.
I can't even do sorcery, for that matter; and I would be more than charmed by someone who could really do any kind of magic.--anything at all!
Like Shakespeare's Hotspur just because someone claims to have the powers of sorcery, doesn't mean anything.
Glendower:
I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur:
Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them?
So even if the Jews attributed sorcery to Jesus, and not the power of God, you have to acknowledge that he had some special gift, beyond human ability.
In the case of Jesus he healed the sick and resurrected the dead in the name of His Heavenly Father.
However, Jesus also had the power to forgive sins. Since this authority is only attributed to God, if Jesus wasn't really God when he made this claim, he was blaspheming, exactly like the Jews accused him of.
Which begs the question, if He was a blasphemer, why did God continue to help him work miracles?
Matthew 9:2-7
2 Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”
3 At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”
4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5 Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’?
6 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” 7 Then the man got up and went home.
'However, Jesus also had the power to forgive sins. Since this authority is only attributed to God, if Jesus wasn't really God when he made this claim, he was blaspheming, exactly like the Jews accused him of.'
This is from new testament.in the old testament there's no shit about saying he is god or he is son of god.
You people 'believe' trinity right?then what is 'holy ghost'?since you can describe how jesus look like.you people create something resembling to what you have in your mind that 'this is god,this is how he should look like'.stupid.
From Adam until us,we are just a mortal,human.God is not from a mortal human.there is nothing about son of god,holy ghost.God is unique,and the only one.How come you people take a human's life,crucified him and said,'oh dear lord sacrifice himself to forgive our sin'.
Talking to all of you only need logic.a 7 year old would know a human cannot be god.
Since all of you get hatred out of nowhere to muslims around the world.
Muslims believe in Jesus A.S as a prophet send to people in his era.fullstop.
ei,
A little less emotion, and a little more cool-headed logic and you have the makings for a fine debator.
As far as Jesus being called the Son of God in the Old Testament, the quickest, fastest and easiest place to send you is Psalms 2, and you need to especially note verse 12.
Psalm 2
1 Why are the nations so angry?
Why do they waste their time with futile plans?
2 The kings of the earth prepare for battle;
the rulers plot together
against the Lord
and against his anointed one.
3 “Let us break their chains,” they cry,
“and free ourselves from slavery to God.”
4 But the one who rules in heaven laughs.
The Lord scoffs at them.
5 Then in anger he rebukes them,
terrifying them with his fierce fury.
6 For the Lord declares, “I have placed my chosen king on the throne
in Jerusalem, on my holy mountain.”
7 The king proclaims the Lord’s decree:
“The Lord said to me, ‘You are my son.
Today I have become your Father.
8 Only ask, and I will give you the nations as your inheritance,
the whole earth as your possession.
9 You will break them with an iron rod
and smash them like clay pots.’”
10 Now then, you kings, act wisely!
Be warned, you rulers of the earth!
11 Serve the Lord with reverent fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Submit to God’s royal son, or he will become angry,
and you will be destroyed in the midst of all your activities—
for his anger flares up in an instant.
But what joy for all who take refuge in him!
When I have pointed this out to Muslims, they usually say that the royal son is David, or Solomon. But if that is the case, then Muslims are in bigger trouble than me, because the Muslims have built a mosque on Temple Mount, and they are stirring up problems in Jerusalem. It would be better for you to acknowledge that this is the actual Son of God, Most High.
As far as the Spirit of God is concerned in the OT, you do not need to look any further than Genesis 1:1-2, the very first verses in the very first book of God breathed scripture!
Genesis 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
There is no point debating what the bible says or doesnt say. The fact is the Bible is not the word or God, nor is is the words of Jesus, nor is it the words of his disciples. The bible is a compilation of writings of various individuals over a period of 300 years and full of errors made by the early copyists. The simple proof of the unreliability of the bible is the fact that there is no single version of it. The Quran on the other hand has only one single original Arabic version which is in the same form for the last 1430 years.
We muslims believe in Jesus (Isa-which is his correct name) as a prophet of God, as he claimed he was. We believe he was born miraculously and we believe he will return and lead the world. He will clarify the false accusation against him, that he claimed to be the son of God. He was a muslim just like all the Prophets of God were muslims. He didnt touch pork or alcohol. He prayed like muslims pray, bowing down and kneeling in front of God. He said Salam or Shalom in Hebrew just like we do. He was our prophet just like Moses was our prophet and Abraham was our Prophet and Muhammad was our Prophet. Its really that simple.
-Muhammad
Mohammad, I would surely like to see all of these copyist errors in the bible that prove that Jesus wasn't really God. You apparently have read some manuscript texts that I haven't seen yet.
Could you put some of these significant 300 errors here, along with the papyrus or manscript that it was found on? I would like to review them for myself.
And Muhammad just validated option "c" in my comment above. Thanks Muhammad for confirming my statement.
BTW, the Koran is one that has many textual variants (http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/index.html) and even Imams can't agree on what much of it actually teaches. And let's see you explain away all the logical inconsistencies in your Koran (http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/index.html).
Also BTW, Jesus did claim deity (feel free to read the materials at http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Jesus-Christ/Deity-of-Christ/ and http://www.answering-islam.org/Who/index.html if you are so bold -- I don't think you're up to it).
Muhammad, your ignorance of who Jesus truly is is understandable since you've been fed misinformation for your entire Islamic life. However the facts refute you quite easily and throroughly.
Please Read "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman.
That is just one book on the topic. There are many more.
Anyhow, lets put it this way, to end this peacefully. We, as muslims, are ready to put our belief in Jesus to the test. We believe he will return and you believe he will return. We will accept whatever he gives as the correct version of events. If he requires us to become Christian in the modern sense then we are prepared to do so. Are you prepared to follow him if he claims prophethood and rejects the concepts of his being the son of God?
-Muhammad
Here's an introduction to the corruption of the Qur'an. Even Muhammad's top experts couldn't agree on what's supposed to be in the Qur'an. Yet modern Muslims claim perfect preservation, when Muhammad's companions denied it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91AM7665cbo
Muhammad, when the Lord returns,it is going to be too late! The time to test the two different beliefs is now!
Today! God never even promised you tomorrow! He never even promised you your next breath.
"For God says,“At just the right time, I heard you.On the day of salvation, I helped you.” Indeed, the “right time” is now
(2 Corinthians 6:2)
So, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness (Hebrews 3:7-8)
You must warn each other every day, while it is still “today,” so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God.
(Hebrews 3:13)
Peace be upon you all,
I am already a convert to Islam but not from Christianity. Just watched the video of brother Evans and came along this blog. I read much but didnt come to the end.
I hope you show me understanding that if I want to bring up another thing by sending a link to help us discuss the three scriptures. Please see the difference between them regarding women.
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/w_islam/eve.htm
Who did Mary worship before Jesus came to being and who did Mary worship after Jesus came into being i.e. born and who did Mary worship after he was not around i.e to christian i.e. crucify n to Muslims i.e save by Allah SWT. The answer one God, Allah SWT. Get Real.
Jesus' brothers eg James took no notice of him when he was alive. After Jesus'death and reserection they believed he was God and were martyred for their beliefs just like the rest of his disciples. So after Jesus' death Mary would have worshiped her son and Gods son Jesus Christ just like the rest of her family. The way, the truth the life.
What muslims don't get is christians know Jesus is God because they have a personal relationship with him. Joshua Evans has never been a christian, believing the bible or going to church dosen't make you a christian.
A question for muslims why does the human race exhist?
After Jesus' death and reserection the Brothers of Jesus' eg James went to thier marytadom in their belief that he was God just like the rest of his disciples. So just like the rest of her family Mary would have worshiped her son and Gods son Jesus Christ after his death. Jesus is the way the truth the life.
Joshua is correct in his point number 10 because Jesus realy existed only during the first century AD when she was begotten by his mother. God never be begotten. In old testament books we cannot hear Jesus already existed. Jesus is unknown in the old testament books how come he is eternal God along with the the Father? Is there an unknown god and was only known in the first century? The God of the old testament is only the Father and Jesus bear witnessed that the Father is the only True God (John17:3). The "I Am" saying of Jesus does not make him God for s simple reason that he never claimed to be God. Jesus said "I Am" the light of the world, "I Am" the salt of the world, "I Am" the way,etc.. Jesus never said "I Am" God...So if you will not beleieved Jesus that he is the salt, the light, the way, etc hen you will die in your sins....even you will die in your sins if you believed him as God despite of the fact that Jesus never teach you that...he never claimed that he is God and he never meant "God" of hi ssaying "I Am"....When th eonly One true God the Father will say "I Am" then it includes the fact that He is God because He claimed categoricaly that He is God over and over again. Jesus never claimed to be God so why you have to interpret his "I Am" saying as he is claiming to God? If I will say yo you that I am a Prophet sent to save mankind then if you will not beleieved me that "I Am" you will die in your sins. Who Am I? Of course a Prophet not God. What are the claims of Jesus? He is the Christ, the messenger, the prophet, the salt, the light, etc..therefore his "I Am" saying should be understood in the contect of his claim.
sir to prove that there is only one god and that jesus (PBUH) is not god, is difficult because of your faith unless you examine the scripture without including your faith in, and that won't be easy. the only thing that will be easy for you, is to examine the coran with logical attitude because you don't have the muslims' faith and it won't interferate in your analysis. if we found out that the coran is from god then you'll understand. to help you, there are in the coran a lots of verses related to science which were unknown during the time of the prophet and that we just discovered. for exemple Coran chater 21 verse 30 "Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" you will question these evidences whether they are true or false and that is the purpose.
About numbers. When one converts to Islam, he's feted and advertised. And when one converts from Islam to other faiths, one is persecuted at best and murdered. How than do you expect to record down the numbers???
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