Wednesday, October 15, 2008

The Third Jihad: Abridged Version

Here's the latest film on "radical" Islam. Notice that, once again, the producers go out of their way to distinguish between Islam and "radical" Islam. They do everything in their power to say, "We're not criticizing Islam here. We're simply pointing out the fact that some people who consider themselves Muslims are engaged in efforts to overthrow the West." Notice also the Muslim complaints that will result from this film. Moderate Muslims will say, "How dare you make this video!" But if these moderate Muslims are really against violence, shouldn't they be glad that radicalism is being exposed? The fact that they complain about radicalism being exposed leads me to think that, deep down, they really support radicalism (as Muhammad, the Qur'an, and the Hadith clearly do). Many moderate Muslims are just too ashamed to admit it.

The Third Jihad - The FREE 30-Minute Version

41 comments:

Sami Zaatari said...

200,000 Muslims support suicide bombings and on the other side millions of Americans including Christians support the state sponsoring terrorist war on Iraq, Afghanistan, ilegal bombings in Pakistan, as well as the state sponsoring terrorism against Palestinians.

how about we let that be known as well? oh yeahhhhhh but its okay for you guys to support wars bombings and killings against Muslims, i forgot that, how silly of me!

yes Islam will dominate, thats not extremism, thats Islam giving you westerners your own medicine, you came to our countries forcing your ways and colonizing us for so long and CONTINUE TO DO IT to this day, now we will do the same to you but we will do it peacefully as we did in England, through the system itself.

lol you muzzzlimmmsss are so evil for wanting to bring Islam and sharia to our countries through the peaceful system, but hey we westerners/Christians can do it to your Muslim countries by force as we have been doing for the past 100 hundred years and beyond, okay?!!!!!!!!!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9A2S2Nqbl8Q

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=M23WyxGN5dc

Sami Zaatari said...

ill make a deal, if you westerners stop forcing your ways on us through your armies and corporations, media and all other forms, then i will make it my personal duty to speak out against Muslims wanting to bring sharia to your countries and dominate. thats a promise.

:)

David Wood said...

Wow! It took Sami only 45 minutes to do exactly what I said he would do: "How dare you make this video!"

Sami's Logic: "There are wars 'n' stuff in the world. So how can you complain about the eventual Muslim bloody overthrow of the West?"

David Wood said...

I wonder what would happen if we turned Sami's logic back on him.

Sami: "Quit complaining about the fact that Muslims are trying to destroy the West! There's a war in Iraq, you know. And Israel thinks it has a right to exist!"

Westerner: "Quit complaining about the war in Iraq. Muslims flew planes into buildings, you know. And millions of Muslims support terrorism. So you have no right to complain about anything anyone does to Muslims. But we'll make you a deal. End all Muslim terrorism in the world, and then we'll pull out of Iraq."

If Sami were to see such a response, suddenly his reasoning ability would kick in, and he would see how odd it is to respond like this. But sadly, when he's defending terrorism, his reason is turned off.

Sami Zaatari said...

David i have no problem with the video, yes we must adress these problems BUT we must not ignore what your side does.

for instance if it is bad for 200K Muslims to support suicide bombings, then what about millions of Americans who support state sponsoring wars against Muslim nations to simply spread their interests and world view?

adress both as equally bad, and how can westerners point fingers when they are doing it? thats my point, and thats following your own Jesus' example who said YO FOX YOUR OWN HOUSE BEFORE YOU TELL OTHERS TO.

Sami Zaatari said...

and David your logic fails badly why? because you are distorting history to suit your false logic.

lol your own PRESIDENT ADMITED IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9-11 so my friend what are you saying man? Iraq war was yet another American plan to control the mid-east and spread their interests. hence Muslims have a right to do the same now through peaceful measures.

and again my friend David, facts are facts, your nation and technically mine are invading Muslim nations to spread their ways by force, once you stop that, i will speak out against Muslims who seek sharia in the west.

David said...

Random thoughts:

1). David Wood is usually pretty logical, has a pleasant demeanor, and does not resort to pejoratives or petty insults. His videos and responses are typically consistent although not always perfect (who is?). 4 Stars.

2). Sami is usually pretty illogical, often is factually inaccurate, seems to be given to extremes, and makes grandiose statements that he probably cannot back up. 1 star at best.

3). Sam S seems to have good videos and is reasonably consistent and logical. On his videos he seems very likable. However, he seems to receive an enormous amount of criticism for being foulmouthed behind-the-scenes (which may or may not be true). If the accusations are indeed true there is a pretty big character problem here. If they are not true, well, Islam has a major black eye as far as honesty is concerned and any arguments they present would be suspect at best. 2-4 stars depending upon the veracity of the accusations. Important caveat: if he is using pseudonyms to hurl insults at people with nasty and aggressive behavior he drops immediately to 0 stars. Hopefully this is not the case.

4). Shabir is logical and articulate. He is also a respectful and seems to be pretty pleasant. The consensus among those who debate him is that he is a good guy, albeit given to an agenda (as most people are). 3.5 stars all things considered.

5). James White is scholarly, logical, articulate, consistent, and a little bit hardheaded. He doesn't seem to mind criticism, occasionally, but he has recently disabled the comments section on his videos (which is understandable if you simply want to put out information without feedback). He makes himself available for anyone that wants to call and speak directly to him in a public forum. That's pretty admirable by any estimation. Not perfect by any means (in fact, I disagree with Calvinism) but obviously sincere. 4.5 stars.

6). William Lane Craig is logical, extremely scholarly, very articulate, and quite affable. He is probably the best of breed among Christian apologists that addresses the secular worldview (with some Muslim interaction). Overall seemingly a very good guy that has reason to be prideful but apparently is not. A little redundant at times, but still compelling. 5 stars, but not someone you would want on your side in a knife fight!

7). People who are uncharitable, rude, inconsistent, call others insulting names, and otherwise overly aggressive without cause definitely receive a negative rating. What good is it if I am knowledgeable, persuasive, powerful, and logical, if I do not have love? Not just love for the brethren but love for my enemies. Not love for false religions, but love for human beings. Not hurling insults for insult, or threatening, but patient and kind with all men. As for me, I get 0.5 stars for trying to listen and learn. Not overly cerebral, but as I know my own heart I am sincere, although certainly given to mistakes.

I am not offended by anyone else's opinion or insight or feedback. Please do not be offended by my thoughts as it comes natural to anyone that thinks for themselves. Or at least tries :-)

Sami Zaatari said...

david (not Wood) i find your reply funny since you couldnt show where i was factually wrong, insulted someone, or any of what else you claim.

so you just commited several common argumentation fallacies right there alone, as they say, when you cant respond you just go on a rant about the opponents supposed flawed attributes.

now anyway, plz let me know which of these statements are factually wrong:

1- USA has thousands of soldiers in Muslim countries

2- USA is currently occupying and has invaded 2 Muslim countries

3- USA and European nations have openly declared they want secularism and western ways to be promoted in the Muslim world

4- Europe has went into several Muslim countries in the past and occupied, colonized, and forced them into following their ways

5- millions of Americans support the Iraq and Afghanistan (lest you attack straw man notice i said millions of Americans, NOT ALL)

6- millions of Americans support USA's policy of support for the state sponsoring terrorist state of Israel which is occupying Palestine (again same as above incase you attack strawman)

now tell me what in that is factually incorrect? plz dont give another lecture on what you think about people because quite frankly i dont think most people really care about your opinions of them, but care as to see how you respond to their arguments. too bad for you you wont be able to point out ANY factual errors from the above unless your illterate in history and current affairs.

Sami Zaatari said...

also furthermore to David (not Wood) as for making claims i cant back up, i dont need to make claims, my familly LIVED it in 1048 when Zionist terrorists under your un-holy book forced them out of their land and demolished their village. my father was still in the womb when his mother had to flee on her legs with whatever belongings they could take.

and this is the terrorist state many Americans support including Wood, and including your goverment, it is your goverments policy to support this nation more than anyone else, lol and then u want to point your finger at Muslims and complain. :)

Sami Zaatari said...

1948*, not 1048

ben malik said...

sami, I normally would take a Christian's side here but seeing what David (not Wood) has been doing here to other Christians I would advise you to avoid him much like Muslims ask us to avoid Osama Abdallah and Nadir Ahmed. He is craving for attention.

David said...

Sami, what is occurring in Iraq has nothing to do with "Christian state-sponsored terrorist war". In fact, America does not function as a Christian state although there are many Christians in America. There is a clear separation of church and state in the US. You also seem to confuse the war against terrorists (make no mistake, this is clearly a war instigated by Muslim extremists against the United States) functioning within the Iraqi territory with a war against the Iraqi people. There was a decision made that the Iraqi government led by Saddam Hussein posed a threat to the United States of America. Whether or not there were weapons of Mass destruction is a completely different issue. The facts are that Islamic extremists in the name of Islam attacked innocent civilians for the purpose of killing innocent civilians (the civilians themselves for the actual targets, not unfortunate casualties). There was no provocation by the civilians of the United States. When Iraq was invaded and the government overthrown to remember any intentional civilian casualties. These have occurred, which is extremely sad, but it is the result of one country trying to defend itself against violent aggressive assaults by Muslim militant killers. Do not confuse with the US military does in a defined operation with terrorism conducted by or supported by Christians. The United States government does not wage war in the name of Christ but it does seek to defend its citizens (many of whom are Muslims). When the US makes policy decisions it does not do so for the advancement of any religion. If you dispute these facts you are in error. Name a single United States military endeavor which was done in the name of Christ. You cannot. However, many times there have been aggressive actions against civilians in the name of Islam. Remember, the question is not what has the government of one country done to another country, but what has the adherents of one religion done to another religion (those are the fair comparisons) in the last 100 years. I look forward to your clear and detailed response comparing the actions of one religion to another religion in recent history.

David said...

Hello Ben, I hope you are doing well today. I see you have a few minutes. Are you available to talk? Please post your phone number and I will give you a call. I look forward to talking to you soon.

David said...

Hello Ben, it's good to hear from you. You can send your telephone number to the following e-mail address: notbenmalik@aol.com. You will have no trouble reaching me there :-). I look forward to talking to you soon. Take care.

David said...

By the way Ben, you keep mentioning that "David appeals to his physical handicap to get sympathy", do you not? Would you care to document this and actually copy and paste where I said this? I've mentioned this only one time and it was never looking for sympathy. I was accused of not believing in the supernatural and I responded "I'm paralyzed and pray for a miracle daily so I clearly believe...". I'll make you a deal, if you can produce a single instance of me ever appealing for sympathy I will send you $1000 for each time you can do so. Well, copy and paste this information and you can collect the money. Seems pretty easy to me. And because you are truthful and honest you should be able to earn quite a bit of cash with very little effort. I'm really looking forward to this and I'm sure everyone else would like to see what you can produce. Deal, or no deal? Also, I'm still waiting for your phone number at my following e-mail address:

Notbenmalik@aol.com

I look forward to hearing from you soon. Best wishes for a great day :-)

Nakdimon said...

Sami, since you mentioned the "Palestinians"... Who were palestinians before the souvern state of Israel was established in 1948?

Palestine was a region! It never was a country. It has been a region since it was stopped being called Israel around the middle of the second century AD. Before that it has been Israel and after that it never had the status of country or state. So don't try to claim souvernty for "the Palestinians", who were actually Jordanians. Everyone that lived in that region, be they Jew, Christian, athiest or Muslim, was a Palestinian.

And although I don't agree with everything Israel does regarding the Palestinians, I will not sit and see you defiling the souvern state of Israel.

If you claim that the Jews stole the land that was rightfully for "the Palestinians", please tell answer the following questions honestly:

Before 1948,
what was the official "Palestinian" ruler?
the official "Palestinian" head of state?
the official "Palestinian" language?
the official "Palestinian" flag?
the official "Palestinian" anthem?
the official "Palestinian" currency?

The reason why I ask this is because these are the traits of an official souvern state. If you can't answer these questions in favor of "the Palestinians" then you officially destroy any legitimacy to any claim that "the Palestinians" were robbed from their rightful land. Let me re-phrase the questions this time:

Before 1948,
what was the last country that had souvernity over the region called Palestine? Who was the last souvern Ruler?
what was the name of the last souvern state over the region called Palestine?
the official language of the last souvern state?
the official currency of the last souvern state?

If you answer this question honestly, then you will confirm what Orthodox Jews have been claiming all along.

All you Muslims supporting the Arabs against the Jews over the Holy Land should THINK ABOUT THAT before you speak out against Israel again!

MoMo said...

"..yes Islam will dominate, thats not extremism, thats Islam giving you westerners your own medicine, you came to our countries forcing your ways and colonizing us for so long.."

The irony is so thick I could almost bake it into a loaf a slice it :-P.

Islam is the MOST colonialistic ideology the world has EVER seen. It is a method of spreading Arab culture by conquest, and has been since the very first day it left the Hejaz under the "prophets war banner". Everything that does not conform to Arab-Islamism becomes associated with "Jahiliyah", is deemed as inferior, and is openly eradicated.

Violently conquered by Islam: Arabian Christians, Arabian Jews, Arabian Polytheists, Persians, Aramean Syrians, Egyptians, North African Maghrebs, Byzantines, Turks, Indians, Spaniards, Sicilians, Baltic Slavs, etc, etc...

Certainly Anglo-Germanic culture, Hispano-Iberian culture, etc, has a history of colonialism but it is admitted. Muslims are so infatuated with victim-hood they can't even see the hypocrisy and irony of statements like Sami's.

Here is a key distinction between western culture and Islam: We recognize the "colonial" aspects of our society and have the decency to say, "Hey, let's not conquer and eradicate other cultures". Muslims, instead, remain under the spell of their own collective-cultural-denial and are crippled from doing such in any meaningful way.

Muslims in the near east can't even grasp the distinction between being "Arab" and being "Arabized" (most of the region is populated by non-Arab/Arabized peoples). The evidence of the Islamo-Arab colonialism and conquest is testified to by the WHOLE REGION of the Middle East.

Yet another application of inconsistency by Muslims. Holding other groups to standards that COMPLETELY incriminate Islam. It extends beyond theology, right down to the full umbrella of culture and history.

Oh, and about the film....TRUTH! We need to wake up before it is too late. Islam wants to eradicate our culture as well. I for one, am not willing to let my cherished culture become "the days of Jahiliyah". Either we take non-violent action now, or we (or our children) will be facing Civil War in the future.

BlackBaron said...

David, do you really think that scholarly debates and such things can make any real progress when faced with an angry mob of Muslims who refuse to be persuaded by the truth?

Won't debates like the ones you and Dr. White participate in be done away with as soon as Muslims have the upper hand?

Sami Zaatari said...

lol Naki your reply is the typical zionist rubbish, this is your strategy to simply rob a nation of its heritage, traditions, and history just to suit your crimes.

no, we were not Jordanians, my familly were living on that land with their own culture and traditions, they werent called jordanians and identified themselves as Palestinians. and yes there was a leader of the village of lubya, and you talk about flags bla bla bla, these ppl didnt and dont need flags to be a nation and people, this was their land, their farms, their beutiful green lands where they grew up and had a very good life, with their ways, until you lovely zionists from EUROPE came and demolished it all.

again you see unlike you i dont need to actually read articles on this issue, because i know people who LIVE IT, so your 'opinion' is truly futile for me.

number 2, assuming what u said is true which it isnt, doesnt change the fact that my grandparents were FORCED out of their homes by zionist terrorists acting on their book, and the village was completly destroyed afterwards.

also you keep mentioning 'Jews', what Jews? oh the european immigrants who had no connection to the land at all? the Jews who were not from Moses? ah yes those Jews who came from europe and then claimed the land was theirs when they never stepped foot on it while my familly had been living there for hundreds and hundreds of years. they can go back to russia, poland, germany, and brooklyn, thats their true home. what makes this more funny is that zionists first intended for an AFRICAN NATION to make Israel, which proves the point that these people have NOTHING to do with the land.

as your Bible says the weak shall inherit the earth, indeed, those Palis you kicked out including my now deceased grandparents and the thousands of refugees will inherit that land one day yet again.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Tiberias/Lubya/

http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/naeemjeenah/2007/11/27/on-cacti-and-keys-memory-and-forgetfulness/

never forget the land that was stolen, Lubya, the town and village beside Jesus' hometown of Nazareth.

Nazam said...

A few points:

1. Shamoun has been consistently abusive and foulmouthed using his own very name. It is not being said that he merely abuses using psuedonyms (nor is it being said that using pseudonyms is wrong); on the contrary he has been openly abusive as can be seen here:

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/sam_shamoun__a_disgrace_to_christians_

He even brags about it and does not care if his filthy emails are published. The above is a solid documentation of this.

I do not understand why you still doubt Shamoun's abusive behaviour given the fact that Shamoun himself has never denied it, Wood has never denied it, nor has White denied it (the last two are being criticised for not openly speaking against Shamoun's vulgar conduct).

2. I do not know on what basis you say that Shamoun is "reasonably consistent and logical." Examples of his unreasonableness and lack of logic (not to mention comprehension) are documented here:

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/refuting_sam_shamoun

3. You mention that Shabir Ally is "given to an agenda" but do not mention this for Shamoun, Wood and White (even though you add in the passing "as most people are"). For this reason you give him 3.5 stars. Well, the Christians mentioned have no less an "agenda" than Shabir and so, for the sake of fairness, you need to give slightly lower ratings to both White and Wood as well.

4. James White is actually most inconsistent. Examples of his inconsistency and lack of scholarly approach to Islam can be seen here:

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/refuting_aomin_org

Dale Bates said...

Eh, look guys no system is perfect. If we were content with out lot, we wouldn't need religion? Or God.

However, no governmental system is sinless, nor no goverment. As a result we just have to try and measure which system is less 'sinful', less corrupt and more able to provide its people and the world with the tools to better themselves...

I'd argue that western civilisation wins this contest...

Now Sami, what about the million odd jews dispossesed in arab countries in the 50's? If it wasn't Jews ( and there are numerous other dispossed peoples in this world that you never hear of ) would you be getting so worked up about them?

To be consistent, you must stand for all people affected by dipossesion. Including the Jews...

Dk said...

Nazam said:

"2. I do not know on what basis you say that Shamoun is "reasonably consistent and logical." Examples of his unreasonableness and lack of logic (not to mention comprehension) are documented here:

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/refuting_sam_shamoun"

Nazam I hope you were joking by pasting a link to Bassam Zawadi who is one the most irrational, incoherent, inconsistant Muslims attempting to respond to Islamic Polemics.

Nazam I will personally go through these links (shamoun and white) one point at a time with you to expose how ridiculous of you it was to paste this utter nonsense and pass this guy off as if he has exposed "anything".

Disapointing.

Nakdimon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nakdimon said...

Sami,

I have a NICE response ready for your nonsense. But that will follow later.

I just wanted to say that I feel really sorry for your grandparents IF (and only IF!!) they were forced from their homes. That is wrong and shouldn't have happened.

there is no question that I'll give you that, IF it is true! Which I'm not sure of, since you muslims have the "privilege" to apply the most detestable practice in all of religion: taqiyah.

But I must say that it's painfully ironic to see you muslims constantly condemn in others that which your prophet is the most guilty of: forcing people from their homes, taking their possesions, confiscating their land, etc.... The hypocrisy is truely staggering.

Nakdimon

Btw: I have updated my website on counter arguments from rabbinic judaism: http://www.geocities.com/nakdimonspage/letsgetcritical.html

Nakdimon said...

lol Naki your reply is the typical zionist rubbish, this is your strategy to simply rob a nation of its heritage, traditions, and history just to suit your crimes.

no, we were not Jordanians, my familly were living on that land with their own culture and traditions, they werent called jordanians and identified themselves as Palestinians. and yes there was a leader of the village of lubya, and you talk about flags bla bla bla, these ppl didnt and dont need flags to be a nation and people, this was their land, their farms, their beutiful green lands where they grew up and had a very good life, with their ways, until you lovely zionists from EUROPE came and demolished it all.


Let me school you. I see you are reluctant to answer the questions and for a very good reason, since answering them would automatically mean disqualification of any claim that the “land of the Palestinians” was stolen by the Jews. The fact that there was a lil ol’ village with a chief doesn’t make a region a state. Since Israel was exiled in 70 AD, the land has never been owned by anyone. Not by Christians, not by Muslims, not by Jews and not by Pagans. The land was dried up and there was no green lands. As in Islamic times in Saudi Arabia, there was nothing but dried up lands and practically the only ones that had “green lands” were mostly Jews. You should really try reading Joel 3:1-8 to see how the prophet foretold that there would be a battle over the land and that Muslim nations would seek to strip Israel from children of Judah, and how God would be angry at the people because they divided the Land. In 1948 the land that God gave Israel was divided for the first time in history. The prophet Joel foretold this and says that Someone is not amused!

again you see unlike you i dont need to actually read articles on this issue, because i know people who LIVE IT, so your 'opinion' is truly futile for me.
number 2, assuming what u said is true which it isnt, doesnt change the fact that my grandparents were FORCED out of their homes by zionist terrorists acting on their book, and the village was completly destroyed afterwards.


Again, this is wrong if this happened. However, like I said, IF this is true. And it’s funny that you, as a muslim, call others terrorists, while your muslim brothers are the biggest terrorists in the universe and you haven’t got a word of condemnation in you about their actions. And, like I also said before, I don’t trust Muslims one bit on their word, because of the despicable practice of taqiyah that your prophet and god condone. I used to defend Islam then it was attacked by others, because I didn’t know what it taught. But now I know what Islam is all about, especially about the practice of Taqiyah, I am so appalled, to the point that when a muslim, any muslim, makes a claim about anything to accuse any non-muslim, I don’t believe it, because I don’t know if they just say it in order to advance Islam. Having read the accounts of Muhammad and his companions literally deceiving their victims, having them think that they have nothing to fear, but were brutally executed when least expected. So when Muslims say that they have been forced from their homes, I don’t take them at their word.



also you keep mentioning 'Jews', what Jews? oh the european immigrants who had no connection to the land at all? the Jews who were not from Moses? ah yes those Jews who came from europe and then claimed the land was theirs when they never stepped foot on it while my familly had been living there for hundreds and hundreds of years. they can go back to russia, poland, germany, and brooklyn, thats their true home. what makes this more funny is that zionists first intended for an AFRICAN NATION to make Israel, which proves the point that these people have NOTHING to do with the land.

If I recall correctly, it was the Jews who were forced from their land in AD 70. And ever since Jews still lived in that land. To say that Jews were not from Moses is as preposterous as claiming that the OT prophets were muslims. They have Jewish DNA! I’m sure that you are aware that certain tribes, such as Levites for example, have a special chromosome, don’t you? Or do you think that this is another “zoinist plot” to beguile the world in their quest for world domination? And those are Jews from Europe as well. And those hollow claims you make about “zionists first intended for an AFRICAN NATION” is just plain bogus. It is ridiculous to think that you still believe all this stuff. But then again, since muslims indoctrinate their children in thinking that “the protocol of the elders of Zion” is a true document based on true fact, while it’s demonstrably a fake and totally made up story to, again, slander Jews, it is no surprise that you believe the nonsense about that “African nation”.

Since we speak of jews not being from Moses, there is evidence that Arabs aren’t even descendants of Abraham. I suggest you read the article of Sam Shamoun on the Answering Islam site. And since Arabs aren’t even from Abraham, the whole Islamic religion is a total hoax.

as your Bible says the weak shall inherit the earth, indeed, those Palis you kicked out including my now deceased grandparents and the thousands of refugees will inherit that land one day yet again.

And as I said before to you and to Bassam, it was YOUR MUSLIM BROTHERS who refused to live side by side in peace with the Jews. YOUR PEOPLE denied the Jews their own autonomy. You were offered a hand, you wanted an entire arm, and that bad decision came back to bite you. Your muslim brothers attacked the Jews in 1948 and told the arabs to leave the country so that only Jews were left so that they could bomb freely, without concern that they would kill fellow muslims in the process. They promised their Arab Palestinians a speedy victory on the Jewish Palestinians so that they could return and inhabit the land. But things went very differently, didn’t they? There was no speedy victory and Israel is still there. They tried again in ’68 and the Arabs got their tails beaten between their legs again: IN SIX DAYS! Your Muslim brothers tried YET AGAIN in ’73, during the holiest day on the Jewish calendar, on the Day of Atonement, when every Jew is fasting and praying in synagogues. And yet again the Muslims got a beating. What are the Jewish people to do in the face of all of this? THEY are the ones that want to live and co-exist. THEY were the ones that were attacked. Yet you are calling THEM the terrorists! Really? The world in the muslim mind is really upside-down: good is bad and bad is good, Muslim offence is defence and non-Muslim defence is offensive. LOL

Forget it, son. The “refugees” will not set foot in the Land that was promised under oath to the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The refugees are kept there by their Muslim brothers, who refuse to shelter them in order to keep bothering Israel. With that, they trick the world to believe that it is Israel that keeps their Arab Palestinian brothers from having a normal life, yet they deny their Arab Palestinian brothers every right to a normal life by throwing them back into their “refugee camps” when they enter other muslim countries. It is time for all Muslims to fact the fact that God gave that land to the Jewish people and we are going nowhere!
We will stay there, according to the Jewish prophets,
we will be rooted in the land, according to the Jewish prophets,
we will not be plucked out again, according to the Jewish prophets,
we will be gathered by the Messiah from all the nations to where we were scattered, according to the Jewish prophets,
and Zion will be a light for the Gentiles forever, according to the Jewish prophets.

Ki miTsion tetseh Torah, ud’var YHWH miy’rushalayim!
For from Zion will go forth the Torah, and the word of YHWH from Jerusalem!
(Isaiah 2:3)

When the Messiah comes. Come Yeshua, come!

never forget the land that was stolen, Lubya, the town and village beside Jesus' hometown of Nazareth.

Wait a minute… are you now appealing to biblical data? Where do you get the idea from that Natzeret was the hometown of Yeshua? That book was corrupted, wasn’t it?

ben malik said...

Dk, don't worry about Nazam. He fantasizes about Shamoun since all he talsk abotu is him. Shamoun has already proven by producing the emails that it is the Muslim snakes and murderers like Muhammad who started and Shamoun gave them a taste of their own medicine which Nazam, the son of satan, can't handle:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/zawadi_puberty3.htm

So Dk feel fee to use that linki ANYTIME this lying snake tries to make Shamoun the bad guy and his terrorist crowd the good guys. What a joke.

ben malik said...

David (not Wood), please stop playing games and running from providing the number of your church along wqith the email of your pastor since I am going to have keith truth chime in to show how you falsely accused two brothers and also referred to your physical handicap when there was absolutely no need to do so except to gather sympathy which makes you a pathetic representative of Christ.

So stop the games and email the info to:

ben_malik3@hotmail.com

And there you will see the documentaion I will provide and the address where you can send me the 1,000 dollars. I will also show your pastor what kind of hypocrite you are since here you give an email which is an obvious attempt of mocking me. What was that about being Christ-like, you hypocrite?

Anyway, I want to see if you are not a coward and you really believe you have done nothing wrong by sending me the info. NOTE, I didn't ask for your telephone number BUT FOR YOUR CHURCH'S NUMBER. So stop playing games and get to sending me your info.

David said...

Ben, simply put, you're a bully and you like to show your aggression towards other people by talking big. Put up your evidence or turn down your accusations. Come on, copy and paste the evidence you have and let's see you stand behind your false assertions. Send me your phone number (I gave you my e-mail address, if you recall) and I will call you and we will see how tough you talk face to face. I am a patient man, and I'm given to mistakes, but I have never run from a bully. Hiding behind a computer is a very simple thing to do--and you have become quite expert at so doing. Produce the evidence, collect the money, show your blustering to be more than mere bluffing. Do you feel lucky (Ben)... well, do you? Or will your keep hiding behind a few pixels and continue your bellowing. I have called you only one name and that is CYBER-BULL(which is really more of a description). How long will it take for you to produce your "David is looking for sympathy because of a handicap" evidence? And by the way, my e-mail address is a pseudonym, which is employed by many who wish to protect their identity. My name (my legal name) is David. I'm hoping your name is not Sam. I hate to think Sam S looks exactly like the Muslim claim asserts. I cannot believe what he portrays on videos is a complete farce so I reject the notion this is really you (or you are him). I look forward to hearing from you soon, as I'm sure you are willing to continue to strut. Best wishes for a great evening, my friend.

BlackBaron said...

Nazam said
"James White is actually most inconsistent."

I read the links that supposedly show Dr. White being "inconsistent". You must be joking! He show no inconsistency whatsoever.

Amazing.

Nazam said...

Hello DK,

DK, no I was not joking, but I hope you were joking in your comments :)

However I am willing to take back what I said about Sam Shamoun and Ben Malik if it is shown that Shamoun was unfairly attacked. At the end of the day I am not interested in winning a debate but I am only here to reason and to dialogue. Also I want Muslims and Christians to join hands against bullies.

I only joined the discussion because I felt sorry for David and for the way Ben Malik aka Shamoun responded to him by calling him a fool which was uncalled for.

I was also surprise that you came to Shamoun's defence as he has acted very aggressive towards you as well in the past on this blog, hiding behind the name Ben Malik.

Even now look at the way he assaults me and David like a bully on a play ground. Does he not think that every word and deed of us is being recorded and one day we will be called to account? Even though me and David have theological differences we have not resulted to name calling or assaulting one another’s faiths.

David's original point was just simply by assaulting people of other faiths you are not bringing them closer to Christianity but instead driving them father away. What was wrong with this point of his? And even if you disagree with him do you have to do it by assaulting a fellow believer by calling him a fool and if this is how you talk to your co-religionist what about to outsiders?

David Wood spends a whole lot of time exposing Muslim extremists but what about if this blog was run by someone like Ben/Shamoun? My comments and David's (not Wood) and yours from previous posts would have long been deleted by now. For this I respect David Wood for not giving into Shamoun's demand who is writing under the name Ben Malik.

BTW you can also tell that Ben Malik and Sam Shamoun is the same person by looking at the style of their writings, literally no differences.

Nazam said...

Shamoun is just his usual self. He is the one who has been consistently and continuously abusing and mocking Islam. I have already responded to his weird "logic" and he ignored it, which is understandable.

See also this record of Shamoun's filthy manners:

http://www.answering-islam.com/sami_trinity_debate_2.mp3 (see near the end where Shamoun begins abusing zatri)

http://www.answering-islam.com/shamoun_low_class_1.mp3

http://www.answering-islam.com/shamoun_low_class_2.mp3

http://www.answering-islam.com/shamoun_low_class_4.mp3

http://www.answering-islam.com/shamoun_low_class_5.mp3

http://www.answering-islam.com/shamoun_low_class_6.mp3

http://www.answering-islam.com/shamoun_low_class_7.mp3

http://www.answering-islam.com/shamoun_low_class_8.mp3

http://www.answering-islam.com/shamoun_low_class_9.mp3

Just consider Shamoun's ridiculously abusive conduct on this blog. I didn't insult/abuse him. David certainly didn't do it. And yet Shamoun hit back with pure unadulterated filth.

He has serious psychological issues and is mentally unstable when he is in front of a computer.

Nazam said...

David, besides the email and paltalk chat documentation, you can also listen to Shamoun spewing abuse here:

http://www.answering-islam.com/sami_trinity_debate_2.mp3 (see near the end where Shamoun begins abusing Zatri)

Also note that despite all his abuses and mocks, he has yet to deny that he is indeed Sam Shamoun.

Just to remind you, I have no objection that Shamoun (or anyone else) is using a pseudonym (Ben Malik). The objection is only to his behaviour.

ben malik said...

Wow! There goes Nazam with his Shamounian fest! What is it about Shamoun that you drool over? Let's say I am him, will that mean you will start focusing on your lies and hypocrisy for a change? Will that get you to address your fellow liars in arms for their very Islamic behaviour towards others like Wood and White?

I love how you post Muslim links but never address the one link where your filthy comrades are exposed for being and doing the exact thing you condemn in Shamoun and myself, and yet you're no better. You're just like Mo, so when you act like a snake, a deceiver, no one can condemn you for it since you are being a good Muslim. And I am glad you notice that Shamoun's "behaviour" and mine do not reflect Christianity, which means that you agree that Christianity has a higher moral code than Muhammad and your Allah, the best deceiver out there who makes even Satan blush. Hahaha

Anyway, if you want I can get you Shamoun's number so you can tell him how you fantasize over him and how he makes Mo shiver in his grave.

David said...

Nazum, I am starting to believe you are correct and that Ben is Sam. I continue to hope that this is not true but each day it seems to become more evident that it is the least likely. I previously read Answering Islam frequently but it has now been removed from my bookmarks. Sad, very sad. Ben mentioned you "fantasizing about Sam". Any honest person would have to acknowledge the clear sexual connotation and the very perverse accusation. I think you're justified in your assertions and the fact you are not bitter towards Christians speaks well of you. You know, we all make mistakes as it is human nature, but there is a difference in being hostile, aggressive, dishonest, and perverse. Ben is clearly having a difficult time with his own struggles, which seemed to be increasingly frequent for all to see. I cannot apologize for all Christians for his behavior but I am ashamed nonetheless. We can disagree regarding the facts, regarding theology, and regarding how we interpret data, but when we allow ourselves to degrade other human beings we actually damage our cause beyond measure. This has been done quite frequently lately. I'm not throwing stones at anyone, but I am embarrassed that the name of Jesus has been associated with behavior that is morally repugnant and unbecoming of civilized human beings. I'm not without sin but I am without malice. God help those poor individuals who would hurt fellow human beings for no other reason than to make themselves feel powerful. There are certainly some crummy Muslims out there, but man, I never expected this kind of behavior from people that claim to be followers of Christ. Challenge the arguments with civility, document your areas of disagreement, provide refutations, but above all things treat other people with at least some semblance of respect. If they are obnoxious and aggressive do not return insult for insult, but instead address the arguments and let the nasty behavior come from those who do not claim to represent the living God. David Wood may not always have perfect arguments but from what I've seen he is a nice person that is patient and civil even when he vehemently disagrees with someone. Nazum, I think your honesty and fairness is evident. You are certainly not "the enemy" because you are a Muslim, but instead you are my friend. I hope both sides will disassociate themselves with the those who abuse others whether they are Christian or Muslim.

Nazam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nazam said...

And there goes Shamoun again with his abusive and filthy blasphemeous mock ridden tirades. I am pointing out a serious problem: Shamoun's lowly conduct. I understand why this upsets Shamoun, but I will continue pointing out and speaking against his disgraceful conduct.

Shamoun now merely rehashes his earlier pointed out lies. He keeps parrotting that I "lied" without once bothering to explain where and when (similar to his lie about David using his handicap to gather sympathy and other lies) and he now asserts I am allegedly a "hypocrit" without, again, explaining how. He is using these terms as a form of abuse and nothing more.

Now let's look at another one of Shamoun's weird comment:

"...you post Muslim links but never address the one link where your filthy comrades are exposed for being and doing the exact thing you condemn in Shamoun and myself, and yet you're no better."

Due to his well known comprehension problem, Shamoun does not get the part where it has been said that he (Shamoun) is the one who INITIATED the abuses, insults and mocks. For example, Basam and Sami have never, out of the blue, viciously abused Shamoun the way he has abused me, abused other Muslims and mocked Islam, in this blog and at other places (see the links). Instead, SHAMOUN STARTED all this and then Sami, for example, retaliated in kind (even then not matching Shamoun's viciousness). Did Sami do the right thing? Of course not. But let it be known that SHAMOUN started this and once you behave in this filthy manner, then you should expect at least some folks to hit back and reverse your abuse upon you. For Shamoun to expect anything other than this is indicative of his low intelligence.

Secondly, at no place have I ever justified any Muslim for insulting anyone. Shamoun lacks the ability to comprehend the part where I spoke against Nadir's conduct, even though he has been rather tame when compared to Shamoun. Thus to claim that I have "refused" to speak against some Muslims adopting Shamoun's lowly behaviour is another one of Shamoun's lie.

Shamoun now utters another lie when he attributes to me the following to which I DO NOT subscribe: "...you agree that Christianity has a higher moral code than Muhammad and your Allah..." To correct Shamoun's new lie, I do not believe that Christianity has a "higher moral code" than Islam and I said nothing to imply as such. Shamoun's obscene behaviour is not only against Christian teachings, it is also against Islamic and Jewish teachings (and the teachings of all religions as far as I can tell). While Shamoun types "deceiver" and "snake" all over the place, again and again only he is the one who has been behaving like a deceptive lying snake, who has no basic decency and courtesy.

Finally, Wood's silence against Shamoun's blatant mocks, slander, vicious blasphemous insults and abuses is just mind boggling. Imagine if it was a Muslim who was behaving like Shamoun with the Muslim blog owner absolutely silent. I am sure many Christians would have had a serious problem with this.

Nazam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nazam said...

David, I am glad to have you as a friend. You're absolutely right: we can disagree and argue, but do so in a polite and civil manner. You're absolutely correct in noting that David Wood is 100% polite in his debates. That is how we should all be. The problem I have with David Wood is his consistent silence in speaking against Shamoun's vile behaviour on this blog (and elsewhere). When people like David Wood remain silent, it gives the wrong message to others. The silence may be taken to indicate approval of Shamoun's nastiness, or at the very least as something not to be concerned about.

I think both Christians and Muslims should have a zero tolerance for such behavior. When a Muslim is abusive towards Christians, the result is not the opening of the hearts of Christians to Islam. The result is making them run away from Islam and develop a negative view about it and Muslims as a whole. Likewise, rather than bring anyone close to Christianity or cause them to consider it with seriousness, Shamoun's disgraceful conduct causes non-Christians to run away from Christianity and develop a negative view of it and its adherents in genera. In short, abuse, mocks, and insults destroy the prospect of a dialogue/discussion and the serious exchange of view points.

Muslims should condemn abusive Muslims and Christians should condemn abusive Christians. Silence, however, conveys the wrong message.

Also, perhaps you can email David Wood as I am sure he would confirm to you that Ben_malik and Sam Shamoun are one and the same. Wood is probably uncomfortable to say this publicaly. Nonetheless, I do hope he does the right thing soon: distance himself from Shamoun's destructive and insane manners (not to mention deceptive) and speak against it openly.

BTW If you look at the link that Ben Malik/Sam Shamoun has posted directing us all to an article by himself, you can compare the writing style in that article and this blog and see there is literally no difference between the two. For example: just like Ben Malik/Shamoun accuses me of fantasying about himself, Sam Shamoun writes the same thing in his article to Sami Zartari, accusing him of the same thing. Finally, Ben Malik/Shamoun seems more interested in defending himself than responding to the specific verses from the Bible that I have quoted from my previous posts, just something to ponder about.

magnumquest said...

I don't understand the point of this never-ending debate. It's been going on for over 1400 years now on many different fronts. If someone says 'Islam allows killing oppressors and terrorizing evil war-mongers', yes, so?. Muslims (who submit to God) have no problem with what God asks of them. Christians are the ones who need the approval of their lords and patrons (popes and bishops) to carry out God's commands.

If we you still have a problem with what God asked Muslims to do, then my fellow human beings, you're argument is about whether or not Islam is truth revealed from the Creator of Heavens and the Earth. That is what should be debated then, instead of wasting time on whether or not what God said is 'humane' by your standards or not. Your issue is a fundamental one: You reject the Islam's truth.

Just like you believe it's logical to ask a human being (priest) for forgiveness of your sins. We believe it's logical to govern lands with truth and justice and not allow ours or your countries to practice oppression and manslaughter and hide under the banner of 'well we have church-state separation' as if it's a good thing to leave God out of State? What kind of God said to you that 'Well run the governments any way you want, as long as you come to church on Sunday'.

David Wood said...

Magnumquest,

That was one of the least accurate comments in history. We're not arguing against Islam because it allows Muslims to fight oppressors. We're arguing against Islam because it commands Muslims to fight people simply for not being Muslims (read Surah 9:29 when you get the chance).

And we've never gone to a priest or a bishop for anything, let alone for forgiveness of sins. You need to study Christianity more before you talk about it.

To sum up, nothing you said was correct.

SophieB said...

Yvonne Ridley is a British journalist who was captured by the Taliban in Afghanistan and later converted to Islam. One thing she said that absolutely appalled me (and pretty much all in the UK who read it) was that the guy who masterminded and died because of the Beslan massacre was a 'shahid' (martyr). I couldn't believe what I was reading. She also stated that the hostage-taking had gone 'horribly wrong' and that the Russians were to blame for most of the deaths. I thought 'how does Mohammed manage to dull the conscience so effectively?' You're either part of the global 'ummah' or you're the enemy; even non-Muslim children are the enemy.

What's unsettling is that I have seen Islam affect people's outlook like this before. Some converts to Islam from western countries, with a western family heritage, are adamant that adulterers should be killed and the hands should be chopped off thieves. Somehow, the religion of peace manages to dull the hearts and minds of otherwise decent people to the extent that these things become acceptable to them.

It's frightening.