Monday, October 20, 2008

Cyber-Jihad?

Sunni scholars have declared that hacking and attacking non-Muslim websites is a valid form of Jihad.

Egypt: Sunni Scholars Sanction Electronic Jihad

Cairo, 16 Oct. (AKI) - Attacking American and Israeli websites by hacking and sabotage is allowed under Islamic law and is a form of 'Jihad' or holy war, top Muslim scholars have decreed.

The religious edict (fatwa) issued by a committee from the highest authority in Sunni Islam, Egypt's Al-Azhar University in Cairo, was published on the website of the Islamist Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood movement on Thursday. Read More.

25 comments:

Dk said...

LOL, watch out David! Now we will know what happened to this site if it goes down.

Dk said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay44 said...

Oh man...this is starting to become comical now.

Nakdimon said...

Just take a look at this double standards. What have I been saying all along? When muslims do these things it is allowed, yet when non-muslims do these things to muslims, then they are outraged and blame America and the Zionists.

The Muslim reasoning is officially pathetic!

Angelo_Arts said...

The interesting thing is that the mentioned news article brought the example of the attack by Shia hackers on Al Arabiya news channel website, which is partly owned by the Saudi-controlled broadcaster Middle East Broadcasting Centre (MBC). It is well known that Saudi Arabia Government enforces a strict and conservative version of Sunni Islam that is even criticized by Sunni Muslims living outside Saudi Arabia. The "sign of the attack" was "posting a burning Israeli flag to the site" during the hacking period, and writing that "if attacks on Shia websites continue, none of your websites will be safe" !!
Does this make one infers that Shia Muslims are starting to believe that both strict Sunni Muslims and "Zionists" are now becoming brothers-in-Jihad and working hand-in-hand to perform Cyber-Jihad to destroy Shia Islam?!
How Thoughtful!!

Nakdimon said...

No, but this shows that, in Islam, if you don’t believe like we do, your goose is cooked. Notice the “burning Israeli flag” as a symbol of dispute between Shi’a and Sunni Muslims. What does Israel have to do with that conflict? This just shows the utter irrationality of the Muslim mind.

e.Terminator said...

you how speaks about what Muslims allow to them selves and that they don't allow to non-Muslims, are totally thinking in a reciprocated way, because non-Muslims countries like USA & Israel allow to them selves killing Muslims colonize their lands. and when any Muslim try to defend or to react they call him terrorist.
And about Islamic Jihad and holy war- i want to inform you that the Qura'an and thee hadeeth don't contain the world Holy war, and that there is no holy war in Islam holy war is only introduced by Christians in the crusade wars.
and i wonder if you know what do the word Jihad mean , Jihad is derived from you yojahed, that is doing effort, and tat effort is for fighting the evil inside your self and many other things, just one of them is the Jihad that you are talking about. and this Jihad is conditional. Fighting only who fight you, without killing women, children, old people and animals and not to cut a tree or destroy plants. this is Islamic Jihad. if you want to speak about something please get informed about it.

David Wood said...

I find it ironic that a Muslim who goes by the name "e.terminator" is lecturing us on how Islam doesn't support electronic jihad.

Dk said...

"if you want to speak about something please get informed about it."

E-terminator I recommend you take your own advise: If you want to respond after reading something, please make sure you are informed about what you have read. David gave no speech or commentary about jihad, he is reporting a fatwah issued by Al Ahzar, thus the only "informing" you have to do is inform your Muslim Scholars that Jihad is not offensive but rather conditional and only defensive.

I can see why that might be pretty hard to do considering many of Muhammads battles were offensive, the attempted Roman invasion in Tabuk being one of them, a threatening letter being sent to the Persians being another, infact Muhammads Caliphates were successful even where Muhammad never had the opportunity to offensively conquer such lands, but nonetheless his legacy continued through his replacers.

The red herring about the root word of Jihad, nice touch, but you are trying to convince the WRONG people, convince the Muslim Exegetes and Scholars Jihad is not related to war, but you yourself have already conceded any defensive war is sanctioned and conceded this is a legitimate form of Jihad.

Nakdimon said...

e.Terminator

Oh we have been quite well informed by your historical sources, that’s why we know what Jihad is. And you have been quite skilled in denying what Jihad really means. Saying that there is no such thing as holy war in Islam is like saying that there is no water in the sea, no sand in the Sahara desert and that lions don’t like to eat meat. Jihad is explicitly mentioned as “holy fighting in Allahs cause” in your Islamic sources. Who do you think we esteem as a more reliable source for the teachings in Islam: you or your sources?

And then your point about USA and Israel. It is amazing how muslims dont see where the root of the problem in the middle east is. They deny the root cause of the problems and focus on the point where the fault seems to lie at others than the Muslims. I can go on and on about this point, because there is an overwhelming amount of proof for this. But what I want to repeat is that, the practice to project the flaws of Islam to another is a practice that your religion is best in doing. Even in your “holy” scriptures, your god projects the behaviour that it condemns to the Jews when it was Muslims doing these very things: driving people from their homes, killing people, taking peoples belongings, etc. If you deny this, then please answer the following questions:
What was the livelihood of the first Muslims?
What did they sell to support their families?
What did they produce to support their families?
What labour did they do to support their families?
Anything???

If you can’t point out one profession outside of raiding caravans, as described in the bio of Ibn Ishaq, then my point is established.

e.Terminator said...

DK
i appreciate, your good advice and your ability of discussion,but i want to ask you one question?
where did you read the Fatwa?
i think that you didn't read it from al'azhar website and if read it well you will find the same explanation of jihad as a part of the fatwa. so i don't have to inform my scholars about nothing, because i learned it from them; second the fatwa allows Muslims attack to only websites that are offending Muslims.and that what is the fatwa. and if you read any other words in any different place i think that alazhar is not responisble at all.
Second i'm not debating you.
third about the one who is saying that my nick is ironic, i want to tell him that i've this nick since i was kid, cause i liked Arnold's movie series Terminator.

e.Terminator said...

i forgot telling you about holy war,
please tell me about the crusades was it a holy war for Christians or not. please explain to me why president Bush announced his war against "evildoers" a holy war, like crusade.
please tell find one word in the qur'an, where its written or indicated a holy war.

e.Terminator said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_as_a_general
please read about raiding caravans

David Wood said...

E-Terminator,

What do you think of these passages:

Sahih al-Bukhari 6924—Allah’s Messenger said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: La ilaha illallah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), and whoever said La ilaha illahllah, Allah will save his property and his life from me.”

Sahih Muslim 30—It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for the right, and his affairs rest with Allah.

Al-Tabari, Volume 10, p. 55—Abu Bakr to the Apostates: . . . “Verily God, may He be exalted, sent Muhammad with His truth to His creation as a bearer of good tidings and as a warner and as one calling [others] to God, with His permission, and as a light-bringing lamp, so that he might warn [all] who live, and so that the saying against the unbelievers might be fulfilled. So God guided with the truth whoever responded to Him, and the Apostle of God, with His permission, struck whoever turned his back to Him until he came to Islam, willingly or grudgingly.”

Sahih al-Bukhari 2785—Narrated Abu Hurairah: A man came to Allah’s Messenger and said, “Guide me to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward).” He replied, “I do not find such a deed.”

Sahih al-Bukhari 2795—Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet said, “Nobody who dies and finds good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this world, even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it, except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah’s cause).”

Sahih al-Bukhari 2796—Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, “A single endeavor (of fighting) in Allah’s cause in the afternoon or in the forenoon is better than all the world and whatever is in it.”

Sahih al-Bukhari 2797—Narrated Abu Hurairah: The Prophet said, . . . “By Him in Whose Hands my soul is! I would love to be martyred in Allah’s Cause and then come back to life and then get martyred, and then come back to life again and then get martyred and then come back to life again and then get martyred.”

Qur’an 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Ibn Kathir, Volume 4, 405—This honorable Ayah [9:29] was revealed with the order to fight the People of the Book, after the pagans were defeated, the people entered Allah’s religion in large numbers, and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslims’ control. Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to fight the Romans and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination.

El-Cid said...

People like e.Terminator used to frustrate me. Now, I have seen Muslims use these EXACT same arguments and tactics SO MANY times that it has actually become comical to me.

I would love to see e.Terminator actually engage the comments made by DK, Nakdimon, and David, but I will NOT be holding my breath.

If any further response is forthcoming, I expect to see more red herrings, tu quoque, etc.

Since e.Terminator has laughably brought forth the (red herring) argument about the linguistic root of "jihad" I feel compelled to respond.

You present the case that "jihad" simply means "struggle". Hitler's book "Mein Kampf" also means "my struggle".

It should be quite clear that people involved in "struggle" can terrorize humanity and kill untold millions. Obviously, Jihad (like struggle) has a meaning within a context, and within an ideological/theological framework (which for Muslims is derived from the Quran, Ahadith, Tafsir, Sira, and Fiqh).

So, e.Terminator, if you wish to show that Jihad as found in Islamic texts is in no way similar to the "struggle" found in Mein Kampf, I suggest you engage each and every point mentioned by DK, Nakdimon, and David.

Angelo_Arts said...

e.terminator wrote: the fatwa allows Muslims attack only websites that are offending Muslims.and that what is the fatwa.

1. What do you mean (or what does the fatwa mean) by "websites that are offending Muslims?" Does it include the websites that present some criticism about Islamic doctrines, e.g criticizing the Qur'an, refuting Muhammad's Prophecy,...etc?For example does it include this blog(assuming that this blog contains some of what I mentioned)?

2.What about the hackers who attack Islamic websites but they themselves do not have their own websites that the "Muslim Mujahedeen" can attack back?Does the Fatwa justify the "Jihad" on other websites that represent the Attackers' orientation and believes even if the owners of these wesbites themselves did not start the attack? such as what happened with Al Arabiya website?

3. Does this fatwa justify (from the viewpoint of Justice) non-Muslims to attack/hack Islamic websites that "offend" Christians/Jews by for example criticizing the Bible authenticity or refuting the deity of Christ?or may be "offend" atheists by declaring that God exists?!

e.Terminator said...

First of all you didn’t answer all my questions, and I invite you to read well all what I wrote. And you didn’t tell me what have you read in the wiki link about the raiding caravans.
About offending Muslims, i will give you examples for explaining.
- If you tell me that prophet Mohamed (PBUH) isn't a messenger of God, this is not offensive, because this is your believe as non Muslim.
- If you tell me that Islam=Terrorism, or Muslims "including me" are terrorists, this is surely offensive. But if you say that some Muslims are terrorists, it’s not offensive, and you will be fully right. And i can tell you that also some Christians are terrorists, and some Jews, and some of many other ideologies.
- About the tactics that people like me use to prove that an egg is an apple, I will repeat it again this explanation of the word Jihad is known for every Muslim and it’s written as a part from the Fatwa of ALAZHAR, and that make me sure that no one from you read it, and this is the irrationality, to quote what you didn’t read.
- About the parts that you quoted from the Quran and Hadeeth, yes those parts are present and i can find to you, if you want many other parts that you can use in your context. But you must know that, we Muslims when we read our holy Quran and the hadeeth, we don't read it like any other book. we read it in its historical context and especially when reading the Quran we must read any verse as a part of whole.
- So I will tell you how to understand those verses that you quoted and the others that you didn't quote, in the way that we understand, and in the right way. First of all there are many verses of the Quran that oblige us to well treat non Muslims and, teach us to deal with the counter Ideologies. You may think that this is a contradiction, but this it’s not, this is integrity because the Islam deals with people, in this way.
1. People who agree with you (2- Second people who don’t agree with you / 2.1 from those people some discuss. / 2.2 some of them offense you or try to force you to accept his ideology.)
So there are different verses that deals with different kinds of people, and when you read any verse you must see its context to understand it, and to try to apply it in the similar situations.
So this verse appears to order Muslims to kill everyone who is not Muslim but actually it doesn’t. And if so why in Egypt where I live there are about 10 million Christians, and I have 6 Christian friends and only 2 Muslim friends, And why when Muslims had great power they didn’t kill every non Muslim.
- One last thing I’m not debating you to prove that you are wrong know you might be right and I’m wrong, but I’m trying to tell you how the Muslims think, and how the Islam is. And I think that from the billion Muslims present in the world, you might find a bunch of thousands that are terrorists, and millions that are not and they are good person and pacific and hurting them has no advantage, but you are continuing to gain them as enemies, instead of friends with different believes.

e.Terminator said...

First of all you didn’t answer all my questions, and I invite you to read well all what I wrote. And you didn’t tell me what have you read in the wiki link about the raiding caravans.
About offending Muslims, i will give you examples for explaining.
- If you tell me that prophet Mohamed (PBUH) isn't a messenger of God, this is not offensive, because this is your believe as non Muslim.
- If you tell me that Islam=Terrorism, or Muslims "including me" are terrorists, this is surely offensive. But if you say that some Muslims are terrorists, it’s not offensive, and you will be fully right. And i can tell you that also some Christians are terrorists, and some Jews, and some of many other ideologies.
- About the tactics that people like me use to prove that an egg is an apple, I will repeat it again this explanation of the word Jihad is known for every Muslim and it’s written as a part from the Fatwa of ALAZHAR, and that make me sure that no one from you read it, and this is the irrationality, to quote what you didn’t read.
- About the parts that you quoted from the Quran and Hadeeth, yes those parts are present and i can find to you, if you want many other parts that you can use in your context. But you must know that, we Muslims when we read our holy Quran and the hadeeth, we don't read it like any other book. we read it in its historical context and especially when reading the Quran we must read any verse as a part of whole.
- So I will tell you how to understand those verses that you quoted and the others that you didn't quote, in the way that we understand, and in the right way. First of all there are many verses of the Quran that oblige us to well treat non Muslims and, teach us to deal with the counter Ideologies. You may think that this is a contradiction, but this it’s not, this is integrity because the Islam deals with people, in this way.
1. People who agree with you (2- Second people who don’t agree with you / 2.1 from those people some discuss. / 2.2 some of them offense you or try to force you to accept his ideology.)
So there are different verses that deals with different kinds of people, and when you read any verse you must see its context to understand it, and to try to apply it in the similar situations.
So this verse appears to order Muslims to kill everyone who is not Muslim but actually it doesn’t. And if so why in Egypt where I live there are about 10 million Christians, and I have 6 Christian friends and only 2 Muslim friends, And why when Muslims had great power they didn’t kill every non Muslim.
- One last thing I’m not debating you to prove that you are wrong know you might be right and I’m wrong, but I’m trying to tell you how the Muslims think, and how the Islam is. And I think that from the billion Muslims present in the world, you might find a bunch of thousands that are terrorists, and millions that are not and they are good person and pacific and hurting them has no advantage, but you are continuing to gain them as enemies, instead of friends with different believes.

e.Terminator said...

First of all you didn’t answer all my questions, and I invite you to read well all what I wrote. And you didn’t tell me what have you read in the wiki link about the raiding caravans.
About offending Muslims, i will give you examples for explaining.
- If you tell me that prophet Mohamed (PBUH) isn't a messenger of God, this is not offensive, because this is your believe as non Muslim.
- If you tell me that Islam=Terrorism, or Muslims "including me" are terrorists, this is surely offensive. But if you say that some Muslims are terrorists, it’s not offensive, and you will be fully right. And i can tell you that also some Christians are terrorists, and some Jews, and some of many other ideologies.
- About the tactics that people like me use to prove that an egg is an apple, I will repeat it again this explanation of the word Jihad is known for every Muslim and it’s written as a part from the Fatwa of ALAZHAR, and that make me sure that no one from you read it, and this is the irrationality, to quote what you didn’t read.
- About the parts that you quoted from the Quran and Hadeeth, yes those parts are present and i can find to you, if you want many other parts that you can use in your context. But you must know that, we Muslims when we read our holy Quran and the hadeeth, we don't read it like any other book. we read it in its historical context and especially when reading the Quran we must read any verse as a part of whole.
- So I will tell you how to understand those verses that you quoted and the others that you didn't quote, in the way that we understand, and in the right way. First of all there are many verses of the Quran that oblige us to well treat non Muslims and, teach us to deal with the counter Ideologies. You may think that this is a contradiction, but this it’s not, this is integrity because the Islam deals with people, in this way.
1. People who agree with you (2- Second people who don’t agree with you / 2.1 from those people some discuss. / 2.2 some of them offense you or try to force you to accept his ideology.)
So there are different verses that deals with different kinds of people, and when you read any verse you must see its context to understand it, and to try to apply it in the similar situations.
So this verse appears to order Muslims to kill everyone who is not Muslim but actually it doesn’t. And if so why in Egypt where I live there are about 10 million Christians, and I have 6 Christian friends and only 2 Muslim friends, And why when Muslims had great power they didn’t kill every non Muslim.
- One last thing I’m not debating you to prove that you are wrong know you might be right and I’m wrong, but I’m trying to tell you how the Muslims think, and how the Islam is. And I think that from the billion Muslims present in the world, you might find a bunch of thousands that are terrorists, and millions that are not and they are good person and pacific and hurting them has no advantage, but you are continuing to gain them as enemies, instead of friends with different believes.

Nakdimon said...

About the parts that you quoted from the Quran and Hadeeth, yes those parts are present and i can find to you, if you want many other parts that you can use in your context. But you must know that, we Muslims when we read our holy Quran and the hadeeth, we don't read it like any other book. we read it in its historical context and especially when reading the Quran we must read any verse as a part of whole.

Just to address a few points you made. This one I find very intriguing. How do you know what the correct historical context is outside the only two chronological sources Islam has? And these are the very sources that Islamic apologists reject as valid sources, namely Ishaq and Tabari. Please tell us how you are to read things in their historical context, when none of the sources you recognize as authentic, the Qur’an, Bukhari and Muslim have any chronological order? So if we follow the order that Ishaq and Tabari give us, then we don’t read things in context, yet, when you read the non-chronological sources and interpret them as you see fit, then you are reading them in context. Sure…


One last thing I’m not debating you to prove that you are wrong know you might be right and I’m wrong, but I’m trying to tell you how the Muslims think, and how the Islam is. And I think that from the billion Muslims present in the world, you might find a bunch of thousands that are terrorists, and millions that are not and they are good person and pacific and hurting them has no advantage, but you are continuing to gain them as enemies, instead of friends with different believes

Why do muslims fail to see their tremendous problem when it hits them in the face: The main problem isn’t the terrorists that openly declare their actions to be for the “glorifications of Allah and Muhammad”. The main problem is the utter failure of the so-called moderate muslims to condemn their fellow Islamic brothers on behalf of the West! When a soldier in Iraq is caught misbehaving towards Muslims, other muslims are outraged and they take to the streets and demand the blood of that soldier. This soldier is put on trial and thrown in jail by the West if found guilty. Yet, when muslims commit their atrocities in the name of their “pieceful” [sic] religion, whether it be against muslims or against the West, there is total and utter silence from their fellow muslims, who, just like you, claim that “that is not Islam”. WHERE IS YOUR OUTCRY THEN??

The truth is that you have no case against those Muslims, because THAT IS ISLAM. They would mob the floor with you in a debate about validity of their behaviour. Simple fact is that they have been promised their virgins and that’s what they will get, as far as they are concerned. What amazes me is that the Islamic Paradise is never described as it is in the Bible. It is never about God and the peace and the glory of the Eternal. It is never about everlasting righteousness and relief of sin. Instead, Islamic Paradise is everything Muslims condemn in this world: perpetual sex with dozens of women and eternal alcohol abuse.

One side note. I have always asked myself: why promise “rivers of wine” when the alcohol doesn’t even effect you at all? Why not promise “rivers of lemonade” instead? I guess that doesn’t sound as tempting as wine, does it? Islam is a religion of temptation: deny yourself the sinful pleasures here, and you will have them eternally in Paradise.

Nakdimon

e.Terminator said...

you really made me lough, when you spoke about the soldiers in Iraq and how the west and the Muslims "even i refuse this classification" act when one of them misbehave. but actually we consider there presence in our land killing our women and children, as terrorism and as misbehavior.
and when you tell me that you can't find the historical context, this is your problem, because for every verse of the quran there is what we call Asbab el Nezool "reason of the verse", where is present the historical context and the reason and who were indicated.
about the paradise description in the quran i will not discuss it with you because it seems that you don't know any thing about its quranic description.
and about our problem i think that we don't condemn the terrorism made in the name of GOD, i think that we actually doing this.
But i will tell you our real problem. our problem is this that we speak to our selves, we say that this is terrorism and this is not what god thought us, and all what you say and more, but this don't reach the west.
by the way we don't call our selves moderate Muslims, but we call our selves Muslims and we call terrorists, terrorists too.
and even us here in Egypt were attacked be those terrorists, so you can't say that we don't condemn them because they are our enemies too.
that there are terrorism done in the name of GOD in all religions, even christianity.
if you tell me that those terrorists are not following the steps of Jesus, then we are equal, and if you condemn them, we are also equal.
and i still waiting from you to answer my questions, and to tell my what you read about raiding caravans.
and i'm waiting your confessions that you had not read the Fatwa from ALAZHAR, but from a different place.
Peace be upon you all this is the islamic greeting.

Nakdimon said...

you really made me lough, when you spoke about the soldiers in Iraq and how the west and the Muslims "even i refuse this classification" act when one of them misbehave. but actually we consider there presence in our land killing our women and children, as terrorism and as misbehavior.

First, as I told your Sami Zaatari, you should have seen the extreme joy on the faces of the Iraqis when Sadam Hussein was defeated and they were set free from his tyranny by the US soldiers.

Second, let it be known that it’s your own fellow muslims that have been killing more muslims in Iraq than the US soldiers. Have you any idea how many people were blown up by car bombs in Iraq? That happened on a daily basis at a point in time. Now, there are even children and women who blow up their fellow muslims.

Third, terrorism is not so much the act itself. It is the motive behind the act. Trying to kill as much people, no matter who they are, to cast fear in the hearts of others. That is terrorism. That is NOT the intention of the US troops in Iraq. But that surely is the intention of the groups blowing people up in MARKET PLACES, in MOSQUES, during their HOLY DAYS, blowing people up at JOB APPLICATIONS, IRRESPECTIVE of whom the people are. Whether it be women or children or just men seeking to make an honest living.

Again, it blows my mind how selective the mind of a Muslim will view situations. There is a clear distinction between what the US soldiers are trying to do and what the Islamic terrorists are doing.


and when you tell me that you can't find the historical context, this is your problem, because for every verse of the quran there is what we call Asbab el Nezool "reason of the verse", where is present the historical context and the reason and who were indicated.

“reason of the verse”? So I ask you again, who determines the reason of the verse since there is no context. What you are saying is that “the Quranic verse says whatever I say it says”.


about the paradise description in the quran i will not discuss it with you because it seems that you don't know any thing about its quranic description.

So let me get this straight: according to you I am ignorant of Islamic teachings, therefore you will not tell me what Islam teaches? It is hilarious to see Muslims accusing non-muslims of ignorance of Islamic teachings, yet, they are unwilling to explain what we misunderstand.


But i will tell you our real problem. our problem is this that we speak to our selves, we say that this is terrorism and this is not what god thought us, and all what you say and more, but this don't reach the west.

Do you know what the real problem is? The problem is that you claim that you speak out against terrorism, but I can’t really see that. What I do see is a lot of Muslims taking to the street, because someone in Denmark (for crying out loud) has made a cartoon about your prophet, and demanding the blood of the one that made the cartoon. Why don’t we see the same outrage against Muslims, who commit atrocities against others in the name of Islam? Because you don’t have your priorities straight. That’s why!

that there are terrorism done in the name of GOD in all religions, even christianity.

Yes and these are thoroughly condemned by Christians all over the place. We have made numerous apologies for atrocities in the Pogroms and Inquisition. Where is the Islamic apologies for the massive subjugations and forced conversions and atrocities during the Islamic expansion? We are still waiting, but not holding our breath, since you Muslims see no wrong in the behaviour of your fellow Muslims.


and i'm waiting your confessions that you had not read the Fatwa from ALAZHAR, but from a different place.
Peace be upon you all this is the islamic greeting.


Just like this Islamic greeting?
Tabari IX:69 "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the Prophet's call. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for those who disbelieve, we will fight them forever in the Cause of Allah and killing them is a small matter to us. Peace be onto you."


Nakdimon

Dk said...

"About offending Muslims, i will give you examples for explaining.
- If you tell me that prophet Mohamed (PBUH) isn't a messenger of God, this is not offensive, because this is your believe as non Muslim. - If you tell me that Islam=Terrorism, or Muslims "including me" are terrorists, this is surely offensive. But if you say that some Muslims are terrorists, it’s not offensive, and you will be fully right. And i can tell you that also some Christians are terrorists, and some Jews, and some of many other ideologies."

This is completely laughable, do you seriously expect us to follow your rules/guidelines for what comments non-muslims are allowed to make about Islam/Muslims?

If person X makes comment Y then punishment Z will be extracted.

X = any non-muslim
Y = a whole bunch of rules about what an "offensive" comment might entail regarding "Islam" and "Muslims".
FOLLOW THIS OR ELSE!
Z = hack/attack non-muslim websites.

E-terminator you are a lunatic.

Hows that for offensive?

Angelo_Arts said...

e.terminator wrote:
About offending Muslims, i will give you examples for explaining.
- If you tell me that prophet Mohamed (PBUH) isn't a messenger of God, this is not offensive, because this is your believe as non Muslim.
- If you tell me that Islam=Terrorism, or Muslims "including me" are terrorists, this is surely offensive. But if you say that some Muslims are terrorists, it’s not offensive, and you will be fully right.


This is a very weird classification of what is offensive and what is not offensive. From where did you get such rules?Do all Muslims agree with you?Did the scholars who put the fatwa agree on this?If yes I see it a must for them to include clear definitions and categorizations for offensiveness / non-offensiveness inspired by your approach here before they produce such incomplete, vague, and misleading Fatawas, because as I saw in the article their fatwa failed to say more than:"This is considered a type of lawful Jihad that helps Islam by paralysing the information systems used by our enemies for their evil aims" And as you can clearly see there is no clear definition by your scholars what "evil aims" mean! According to you:Refuting that Mohammad is a true prophet is not an "evil aim" and "proving that some Muslims are terrorists" is not an "evil aim". But what if a "terrorist Mujahid" thought that these are indeed "evil aims" and thus was guided and encouraged by this fatwa to cyber-attack "non-evil websites" in the name of God?! Your Azhar scholars in this case can be classified as "offenders" against innocent wesbites and people and Lawfully categorized as "Partners in Terrorism" by Misleading and Incitement!!

And i can tell you that also some Christians are terrorists, and some Jews, and some of many other ideologies

True, even the non-religious could be terrorists too. But the serious question of the discussion is: Whom of all these terrorists are inspired by their Holy Scriptures to commit terrorism?I can post you tons of "Video Clips" of what we agreed to call them "Some Terrorist Muslims" such as Bin Laden, Al Zarqawi ... etc that are full of "Fatawas" supported by tens of Qur'anic and Hadeeth resources that give them "Holy Orders" to kill!And I bet you know how so many literate highly-educated Muslims used to support their Fatawas. In Saudi Arabia for example, some of those that the Government call them "Al Fi'a Al Dallah" (The misleaded group) have even PhDs in Islamic Sharia and they spent their entire life studying Qur'an, Hadeeth, and Islam. You call them "Misleaded" So what?!They also consider you "Misleaded" and even "Kafer" though you both have the same Holy resources!

e.Terminator said...

First, don’t tell me your Zaatari, because I don’t even know who Zaatari is, and about the joy that you are talking about, yes even me have seen it, but this joy was completely fake, because it was based on a fake promise of freedom, from “The dictator Saddam”, and you should know that our president Mubarak tried for years to negotiate with him about his politic system and also many other Arabic presidents, but what America, did was Just kill, and your president Bush, lied on the world saying that Iraq posses Nuclear weapons, can you tell me where are them, and this was the real motive of the war “a lie”, and after invading the land and with no possibility of continuing the lie, he started talking about democracy. And if you are convinced that the US are not killing people in Iraq and that my fellow Muslims who are the killers, “even if I confess that some of Terrorists are Muslims, just like any other religion”, so please tell me why this wasn’t happening before the Us invaded Iraq, if you are telling me that they are doing this in the glory of God and Muhammad PBUH, you must know that even your president is doing the same, and he enounced his war as a HOLY WAR, like CRUSADES. And if you are telling me that we are not condemning them you must know that this is a complete irrationality and misunderstanding because those terrorists that you are talking about attacked us before several times, so tell me how we don’t condemn our killers, and attackers.
By PATRICK COCKBURNBAGHDAD, Iraq -- A cruel and bloody civil war has started in Iraq, a country that President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair promised to free from fear and establish democracy. I have been visiting Iraq since 1978, but for the first time, I am becoming convinced that the country will not survive
About the historical context, and the authentic books, and the reason of the verse, you have to know that the Prophet PBUH, advised his fellows to mention the reason of any verse when explaining it so that the meaning and the aim of the verse become complete, and in those books, there are the reasons of told even by The Prophet PBUH even by his fellows, and all of this books contains only authentic words. And all the Muslim scholars who translated the Quran used these books to make them understand the Quran, so it seem that you just know 2 or 3 books, about Islam, thinking that they are all what Muslims have.
About the protests that the Muslims are doing against the one who made the cartoon about our Prophet PBUH, and the west who don’t do the same against Muslim terrorists, can you tell me how many innocent killed all over the middle east and Africa, in the name of seeking BIN Laden?
About the Christian apologies of the Christian terrorism, this is not completely true, because the Papa of the Vatican was a military leader for centuries, and was killing other Christians, and the Vatican also were responsible of the Massacres of the native Americans, and you didn’t apologies for the Crusades, and. If you Christians apologized for some of your Terrorism we also did and doing the same.
Your history is full of massacres and blood in the name of God.
Yes I’m still waiting your confession, and I’m sure that you didn’t read the Fatwa form its original source.
Because if you are saying that ALAZHAR, had to identify the meaning of evil aims, that means for me that you don’t know what a Fatwa is, because the Fatwa is always an answer to a question, and the question was: what is the shari’a telling, about the muslims who are attacking Israeli and American web sites, who “OFFENDS” the Islam, and the answer was that attacking those sites is considered a kind of Jihad, and so on. So “evil aims” were referring to the offence as the Islamic religion is not offensive, and they also repeated God words of his hol scripture the Quran, in surat Al Baqara:
2:190 AND fight in God's cause against those who wage war against you, but do not commit aggression-for, verily, God does not love aggressors.
So the Fatwa was complete and el Azhar had never taught terrorism, because it teaches Islam.so God is prohibiting us from aggression even in Wars, against the agressors.
About the meaning of offensive, and my guide lines, I think that you are trying to act like if you were intelligent and logic but actually you are not at all, because I was asked about what is offensive and if any criticism to the Islam is considered an offence o no, and I simply answered, and I think that offence doesn’t have to be explained and I think that you know exactly what offence is and calling me lunatic is a prove.
And you must know that there are many Christians that consider other Christians as Kafir and they can also debate with you on that, and there many Christians that have different conceptions of God and trinity, and they can also debate with you on that. And there were many wars and massacres by Christians in the Glory of Jesus, by Christians, who can debate you to prove so.
Before forgetting about the paradise description in the Quran, you must know that I’m willing to answer on any question I’m able to answer, but first there must be a question, but you didn’t ask me about the description of the paradise in the Quran, but you attacked this description without even reading it as I assumed from your talk, because the promised pleasure in the paradise, doesn’t contain the word vidins but “Azuage Muttahara”, and in Arabic Zawg, means wife or husband, because this word is male and female in the same time. And to know the heavens description in the Quran, it’s so simple, just read the Quran.
Al-Baqara
2:25 But unto those who have attained to faith and do good works give the glad tiding that theirs shall be gardens through which running waters flow. Whenever they are granted fruits there from as their appointed sustenance, they will say, "It is this that in days of yore was granted to us as our sustenance!"-for they shall be given something that will recall that [past]. And there shall they have spouses pure, and there shall they abide.
3:15 Say: "Shall I tell you of better things than those [earthly joys]? For the God-conscious there are, with their Sustainer, gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide, and spouses pure, and God's goodly acceptance." And God sees all that is in [the hearts of] His servants
Al Imran:
3:195 And thus does their Sustainer answer their prayer: "I shall not lose sight of the labour of any of you who labours [in My way], be it man or woman: each of you is an issue of the other. Hence, as for those who forsake the domain of evil, and are driven from their homelands, and suffer hurt in My cause, and fight [for it], and are slain - I shall most certainly efface their bad deeds, and shall most certainly bring them into gardens through which running waters flow, as a reward from God: for with God is the most beauteous of rewards.
Al Ma’idah:
5:119 [AND on Judgment Day] God will say: "Today, their truthfulness shall benefit all who have been true to their word: theirs shall be gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide beyond the count of time; well-pleased is God with them, and well-pleased are they with Him: this is the triumph supreme.
Al Tauba:
9:21 Their Sustainer gives them the glad tiding of the grace [that flows] from Him, and of [His] goodly acceptance, and of the gardens which await them, full of lasting bliss,
10:10 [and] in that [state of happiness] they will call out, "Limitless art Thou in Thy glory, O God!"-and will be answered with the greeting, "Peace !" And their call will close with [the words], "All praise is due to God, the Sustainer of all the worlds!"
Al Hijr:
15:47 And [by then] We shall have removed whatever unworthy thoughts or feelings may have been [lingering] in their breasts, [and they shall rest] as brethren, facing one another [in love] upon thrones of happiness
Marayam:
19:62 No empty talk will they hear there-nothing but [tidings of] inner soundness and peace; and there will they have their sustenance by day and by night
Az-Zumur:
39:73 But those who were conscious of their Sus¬tainer will be urged on in throngs towards paradise till, when they reach it, they shall find its gates wide- open and its keepers will say unto them, “Peace be upon you! Well have you done: enter, then, this [paradise], herein to abide!
Qaf:
50:35 In that [paradise] they shall have whatever they may desire - but there is yet more with Us.
Al-Waqi'a:
56:25 No empty talk will they hear there, nor any call to sin56:26 but only the tiding of inner soundness and peace. 56:27 NOW AS FOR those who have attained to righteous¬ness - what of those who have attained to righteous¬ness? 56:28 [They, too, will find themselves] amidst fruit- laden lote-trees, 56:29 and acacias flower-clad, 56:30 and shade extended56:31 and waters gushing, 56:32 and fruit abounding56:33 never-failing and never out of reach56:34 And [with them will be their] spouses, raised high:
Al Hadid:
57:12 on the Day when thou shalt see all believing men and believing women, with their light spreading rapidly before them and on their right, [and with this wel¬come awaiting them:] “A glad tiding for you today: gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide! This, this is the triumph supreme!”
And there are too many other verses describing the Heavin as eternal pleasure and joy and peace without LIES, hates, empty talks and any other bad thoughts.
SO PEACE, GOD BLESSING AND MERCY BE UPON YOU.
Finally i will be busy the upcoming days due to my exams so i wil not be available to answer your questions or to discuss your comments and criticism.