Thursday, July 3, 2008
Iranian Convert "Temporarily" Released from Prison
Iranian Christian Mohsen Namvar, tortured and incarcerated for baptizing former Muslims who gave their lives to Jesus Christ, has been temporarily released (with severe injuries due to the tortures inflicted by his Muslim captors). Read more about Brother Mohsen here.
8 comments:
My Lord how terrible! We really take our freedom to worship for granted.
Recently the largest mosque in Canada was completed, with a capacity of 1000 people, and attached community centre/bookstore. Some years back I remember reading about a mosque that was built in Rome. In Bradford (UK) old Churches have been converted to mosques.
Muslims enjoy every freedom to worship in Western countries but will not reciprocate with those same freedoms in Islamic goverened states. I ask Muslims to speak out against such atrocities!
Well Jay contrary to popular belief, we have been speaking out even before westerners like you even found out half the stuff which goes on.
Well Yahya, contrary to your belief I am not a "Westerner" - I'm from Asia and I grew up (almost 20 years) in a Muslim country. In all my years there I never ONCE saw any evidence of this "speaking out" by Muslims against religious discrimination and persecution that you refer to.
Instead my experience was the following:
1) Intelligence officers spying on Church congregations
2) Church leaders and elders called in for periodic police interrogations
3) Expatriate Christians deported with barely a month's notice
4) Bans (strictly enforced by the police) on any religious gatherings outside "licensed" areas, which for a country with tens of thousands of Christians was literally 2-3 compounds.
5) Periodic religious bullying by Mulsim shoolmates and colleagues without the opportunity to respond (you understand that if I did and it was reported, I might have landed in jail)
... these are just a few points you understand.
Have you lived in a Muslim country for any length of time? Just curious, since I'm not sure what your delusions about this "speaking out" are based on.
"Well Yahya, contrary to your belief I am not a "Westerner" - I'm from Asia and I grew up (almost 20 years) in a Muslim country. In all my years there I never ONCE saw any evidence of this "speaking out" by Muslims against religious discrimination and persecution that you refer to.
Instead my experience was the following:
1) Intelligence officers spying on Church congregations
2) Church leaders and elders called in for periodic police interrogations
3) Expatriate Christians deported with barely a month's notice
4) Bans (strictly enforced by the police) on any religious gatherings outside "licensed" areas, which for a country with tens of thousands of Christians was literally 2-3 compounds.
5) Periodic religious bullying by Mulsim shoolmates and colleagues without the opportunity to respond (you understand that if I did and it was reported, I might have landed in jail)
... these are just a few points you understand.
Have you lived in a Muslim country for any length of time? Just curious, since I'm not sure what your delusions about this "speaking out" are based on."
Jay, yep I have lived in Egypt, Kuwait and Indonesia respectively and throughout all of this time was actually a "Roman Catholic" kid.
1) Quite Common in all third world countries, even in Vietnam where my Dad now lives and in the U.A.E even is common procedure with Mosques, it has more to do with politics.
2) Can't say I've encountered this.
3) My Dad never got this and he speaks about Islam so derogatorily 4) Hmmm I assume this is Saudi?
5) I got that too, just for being half filipino!
No Offense Jay, but your qualms here appear to be with Muslims as many of these cannot possibly legislated by Islam (when in reality, I could thoroughly demonstrate none of them eminate from Islam).
As for evidence of speaking out, hmmm try the fact that my previous mujtahid and current one (both relatives) are under house arrest in Qom, Iran (and the former late one might very well have been topped off) just for speaking out against the unreligious nature of the Government. And then the fact he has the third largest following in Iran and Iraq.
speaking out against the unreligious nature of the Government
So they have a beef against the government - so do people in Indonesia, Pakistan, Bahrain, Egypt and Saudi, which is not the same as speaking out for the rights of religious minorities!
No I didn't grow up in Saudi - but since we're on the topic, it's a mystery to me why anyone would ever want to live there, no matter how much money they were making.
I actually have a lot of very good Muslim friends. I don't have any beef with them since they are respectful of my religious beliefs and we dialogue in a respectful way. My beef is with the ignorant so-called "apologists" and their lackeys.
I got that too, just for being half filipino!
Well the ethnic discrimination is a whole other issue - I'm speakign here of religious bullying without the opportunity to respond.
Quite Common in all third world countries
Oh thanks, that makes me feel a lot better! If something like this happened in India and an officer was found out, you could sue the government. I think you need to add a caveat - this is quite common in third world MUSLIM countries.
Jay,
>> If something like this happened in India and an officer was found out, you could sue the government.
Thanks for referring to my country in positive light. While there are some religious extremists, a large part of population value human rights/dignity, freedom of religion/speech etc and there is a strong constitutional commitment to these values. While traditionally there was the caste system etc which was discriminatory, the country is really coming out of such ideologies and moving towards values such as basic human rights/dignity, freedom of religion/speech etc.
My points Jay are as follows:
"which is not the same as speaking out for the rights of religious minorities!"- Since these fall under religious rights of the people then yes, it is part and parcel of it.
"Well the ethnic discrimination is a whole other issue - I'm speakign here of religious bullying without the opportunity to respond."
Not particularly, it just like religious persecution cannot be responded against nor is it Islamically justified.
"Oh thanks, that makes me feel a lot better! If something like this happened in India and an officer was found out, you could sue the government. I think you need to add a caveat - this is quite common in third world MUSLIM countries."
Try reporting it in North Korea,China or Vietnam. So no it's not a third world muslim thing, in fact we even found that the phone of our mosque here in london was tapped.....hmmmm.
Secondly Muslims have no reason to apologise for states with majority muslim populations, or so called Muslim governments. Its the majority christian nations who keep the leaders in power, not us.
Since these fall under religious rights of the people
Ok, then please furnish me with a statement from the said leaders about the religious rights of minorities. You're trying to argue from vague generalities - I'm not buying it until you pony up with the evidence. Deedat says, "produce your edivence!" I'm open to correction on this point.
in fact we even found that the phone of our mosque here in london was tapped.....hmmmm
Oh really, they tapped your phone? And you're incensed by it? I wish you were as incensed by the way some of my uncles were interrogated for being Church leaders. Or the way my friends' families were deported for no reason other than the fact that they were Christian leaders. But no, you want your rights in a Christian country while Muslim nations refuse to grant even the most basic rights to Christians.
Also, I could speculate as to why the phones of some mosques are tapped in Western countries... but let's not get into that.
Its the majority christian nations who keep the leaders in power, not us
Umm hehe... yeah whatever you say.
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