Monday, October 8, 2018

Is Muhammad mentioned in Song of Solomon 5:16?

If there was ever a text that has been so brutally contorted beyond the limits it is Song of Solomon 5:16.
The unsound reasoning in the Muslim interpretation of this text is an example of the phonetic fallacy, confusing the sound of one word for another and assuming they are the same. If I were to say the word “sun” and “son”, even though they both sound the same, they are by no means the same by definition and context.
Song of Solomon 5:16 reads,“His mouth is sweetness itself; he is altogether lovely. This is my lover, this my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.”Muslims point out that the phrase “altogether lovely” in Hebrew is the word machmadim. This Hebrew word machmadim is a third person masculine plural noun and it comes from the root word machmad. They argue that the Hebrew word machmad actually refers to Muhammad! The first problem with this line of reasoning is that the word machmad is not a proper name like John, Tom, or even Muhammad. It rather functions in this case as an adjective even though it is a noun. The reason for this is that this word appears in an adjectival clause describing in the context of the Song of Solomon the love and desire that the woman feels for her husband.
The Song of Solomon is a poetic love poem addressing the delights of marital love between a husband and his wife. The context is explicitly clear on this point. The wordmachmad means “desirable”, “precious thing”, “pleasant thing” and its plural form machmadimin Song of Solomon 5:16 is grammatically intended to heighten the sense of the word. Hebrew scholars refer to this as the plural of intensity’. In other words, this passage has to do with the description of the lover in the poem as being “altogether lovely” or “very desirable”. Muslims in this case engage in a form of eisegesis where they read into the text a foreign concept that was never part of the context. If we look at the other 12places in the Old Testament where the Hebrew word machmad also appears and we insert the name Muhammad in those places we will have awkward and completely senseless phrases. If Muslims are to be consistent then why do they not also interpret machmad in the following passages as a reference to Muhammad? We encourage the reader to insert the name Muhammad in the following passages and see for themselves how absurd this would be. The passages are 1 Kings 20:6; 2 Chronicles 36:19; Isaiah 64:11; Lamentations 1:10,11;2:4, Ezekiel 24:16, 21, 25, Hosea 9:6, Hosea 9:16 and Joel 3:5.
Another problem and inconsistency with the Muslim concept that Muhammad is referred to in Song of Solomon 5:16 is the passage in Song of Solomon 5:1 where the husband or lover speaks the following words, “I have eaten my honeycomb and my honey; I have drunk my wine”. The problem here is the fact that the drinking of wine is strictly forbidden in Islam, “O you who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divine arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside that you may succeed” (Qur’an 5:90). The idea that Muhammad would consume wine as a prophet would be inconceivable. However, drinking wine in Hebrew culture was wholly acceptable. What is surprising from an Islamic point of view, is that while wine is forbidden here on earth, it will be permitted in abundance in paradise, “A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers of water unpolluted ... and rivers of wine delicious to the drinkers" (Qur’an 47:15). All of these points considered, grammatical, cultural, and historical militate against the inconsistent view that Muslims impose on this text. This text says nothing about Muhammad at all.


Behieh Ruhi said...

You think you're funny?! When one hears the depraved laughter of your Luciferan congregation one fully comprehends the true hypocritical message of Christianity. Love thy neighbor?!! Please produce more of these videos! They are priceless. There is no better way to see first hand what a filthy bunch of perverts you people are.

cyberwyz said...

Excellent dismantling of one of the numerous muslim misunderstandings. And akbar = mouse, priceless! I'll be sharing that with everyone - thanks!

Behieh Ruhi said...

This is indeed The Losers' Club! In this filthy game of name calling you definitely lose Big Time! For the starter, how about the meaning of Jesus in various languages, some of which I am not able to mention in a polite company. Some less offending meanings are "dead body" in Babylonian, or "starved to death" in Sanskrit. As I said I cannot bring myself down to your level of gutter and give some examples of very offensive meanings in many other languages, that can create hysteric laughs. However, being a loser, you may want to carry on with this game, and so you will open up a Pandora box, like a good Christian! REPENT, and ask the Most Forgiving God, The Most Loving God to guide you to the Straight Path. the Path of Those people who are Blessed with his Grace. Not those who are lost in their ways and have provoked God's Unhappiness. The One and Only God. Who is the Creator, Not born, and Not begotten anybody.

cyberwyz said...

Hm. I understand name calling began long ago by comparing an entire race of people to pigs and monkeys. Whoever would do such a thing? THAT opened the pandora's box.

Behieh Ruhi said...

Please do enlighten us! Who has called the entire race of people pigs and monkeys? A crazy preacher? If so, there is no denying that crazy lunatics do exit in all creeds. However, I would suggest, that when a preacher belongs to a rich country, there is no excuse for being bigot. Unfortunately, people like David Wood, or this guy are consumed by their hatred.

They are hypocrites that do not understand the message «Μην αντισταθείτε σε αυτόν που είναι πονηρός· αλλά όποιος σε χαστουκίζει στο δεξί σου μάγουλο, γύρισέ του και το άλλο».​—Ματθαίος 5:39.

Perhaps it sounds Greek to them! Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Why millions of Muslims suffering under atrocities of colonialists are still adhering to Prophet Issa's teaching! (May Peace and Adoration of Angels Be with him). Perhaps because they believe in God's Grace.

Let this preacher call the god mouse, and let his congregation laugh.

Xen said...

You said in your post:

"Please do enlighten us! Who has called the entire race of people pigs and monkeys? A crazy preacher? If so, there is no denying that crazy lunatics do exit in all creeds..."

Muhammad called the Jews pigs and apes, so I guess your right, he was crazy and a lunatic!

Surah's 7:166, 2:65, and 5:60.

Leave your delusional religion, and follow Christ, the only true light that enlightens every man.

cyberwyz said...

Yes, Xen has it right. Sadly Mr Ruhi is typical of so many - either uninformed or cleverly misinformed, dominated by a `believe or else' mentality. Anyway, further to the pigs & monkeys reference, here is a short video illustrating how early such indoctrination is applied in compulsive societies.

Behieh Ruhi said...

Poor Xen, mark my word! Lucifer is providing him with most horrible gift of cancer, as a reward for his transgression and lies. Unfortunately, as God The Most Merciful, The Most loving says in our Holy Book, He is among those who "are blind, deaf, and can not think with reason."

You, astonishingly ignorant folks, are resorting to invalid collection of hearsay, and are so incapable of reasoning that it never occurs to you that if The Prophet of God, The Most Perfect Man, May His Name Be Glorified Forevermore, was saying this, how come the Jews of Yathreb (Medina), invited him to be Their Judge, Their President, Their Arbiter?

Ask yourself why mathematicians, Physicists, and many other scientists are converting to Islam in such an increasing rate?! Of course, you do not comprehend the concept of Trend. Your knowledge is derived from video clips of David Wood, J Smith. and other losers like them.

See the Clear Signs! Have You not seen the pathetic cry of help by Nabeel asking his Lord to save him from his cancer? Have you not seen the photos of David Wood's two innocent sons inflicted by such horrible disease? Look at your own body, are you not feeling the slow and methodical growth of Lucifer gift?!

"By Time! Verily mankind is in the state of utter loss! Except for those who believe! Those who do the righteous deeds! Those who counsel each other to Truth! And those who counsel each other to Patience."

Behieh Ruhi said...

For Your Information: Surah 2:65 Says:

"And you had already known about those who transgressed among you concerning the sabbath, and We said to them, "Be apes, despised."

* You ignorant people do not understand that in English this does not mean the entire race!

Surah 7:166 says the same things about transgressors

"So when they were insolent about that which they had been forbidden, We said to them, "Be apes, despised."

* You ignorant people do not understand that in English this does not mean the entire race!

Surah 5:60 says:

"Say, 'Shall I inform you of what is the worst punishment of God? For those whom God has cursed and with whom He became angry and made them into apes and pigs and slaves of Lucifer. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way.' "

* You ignorant losers who do not understand English this does mean some, and not all people, who had made God angry, are turned into pig and ape like creature (Remember that God says in Quran that I am talking to you in symbols and metaphors, so that you can understand according to your level of comprehension)

Umer Deen said...

Only Satan can call anybody (even one person) apes and pigs. This proves that Allah is not the God of the world.

Andrew said...

Genesis 12:3 says i will bless those who bless you. I will curse those who curse you.

Mad mo and the koran cursing Jews proves the koran is not the word of God and that islam is the spawn of satan.

Xen said...

You said in your post:

"Poor Xen, mark my word! Lucifer is providing him with most horrible gift of cancer, as a reward for his transgression and lies."

What kind of religion teaches its followers to pronounce such anathema against another creation of God. Is this what your religion is all about. Oh, yes, I forgot, allah only likes muslims, and hates everyone else.

Our God, the True God of the Holy Bible, loves everyone, regardless of whether they love him back or believe in Him the way they should.

Poor Behieh Ruhi, I feel sorry for you and your dead end religion, go and bother someone else with your silly ignorant, mistaken, false mutterings.

Behieh Ruhi said...


Poor, Pathetically uneducated and stupid O You Xen! Go and study your own bible!

It is John who says:

Αν κανείς δει τον αδελφό του να αμαρτάνει με αμαρτία που δεν επισύρει θάνατο, θα ζητήσει, και αυτός θα δώσει ζωή σε εκείνον, ναι, σε εκείνους που δεν αμαρτάνουν ώστε να επισύρουν θάνατο-- ( 1 Ιωάννη 5:14 ).

Does it sound Greek to you! Poor ignorant man it says:

If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that (1 John 5:16).

That sin inflicted Nabeel, Chris, Oriana, Mahasti, Shams, Azar, Shodja, and ... with cancer and led them to death.

You simpleton Christian go and read your bible which in its Hebrew version says:

כזיִרְאַ֣ת יְ֖הוָה תּוֹסִ֣יף יָמִ֑ים וּשְׁנ֖וֹת רְשָׁעִ֣ים תִּקְצֹֽרְנָה:
The years of the wicked will be short (Proverbs 10:27).

You poor soul, what I predicted about your eminent growth of cancer cells are based on your bible!

Έτσι πέθανε ο Σαούλ, εξαιτίας τής ανομίας του, που ανόμησε στον Κύριο, ενάντια στον λόγο του Κυρίου, τον οποίο δεν φύλαξε· κι ακόμα, επειδή ζήτησε έναν άνθρωπο, που να έχει πνεύμα μαντείας, για να ρωτήσει, και δεν ρώτησε τον Κύριο· γι' αυτό, τον θανάτωσε,

Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance, and did not inquire of the LORD. So the LORD put him to death. תְּאַבֵּד֮ דֹּבְרֵ֪י כָ֫זָ֥ב אִישׁ־דָּמִ֥ים וּמִרְמָ֗ה יְתָ֘עֵ֥ב ׀ יְהוָֽה׃ Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will hate the deceitful man.

This is your Lord that will kill you! Repent!

Xen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Xen said...

I genuinely feel sorry for you Behieh. If you think what you have quoted means what you say, I do not know what to say to you.

The problem with muslims, is because their starting position is wrong i.e. the Quran, all their conclusions are wrong, especially when it comes to Christianity. I must also say that muslim scholarship into Christianity is poor, compared to the Christian scholarship of islam which is very good.

Saint Peter said:

"For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty."


"...knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."

Also, St Paul said:

...but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."

If the Church is the Pillar and Ground of Truth and that there should be no private interpretation, this means that only the Church of Christ has the Authority to interpret the Scriptures properly, so it does not really matter what you say, it is what the Church says what matters.

I will leave my last words with the Apostle Paul. Saint Paul told us in his Epistle to Titus:

"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned."

And as you are one of these divisive people who will not listen to the Truth, I will not be responding to your silly posts anymore. In Christ. Peace.

Behieh Ruhi said...

How to spot a snake oil salesman?

O Poor retched Xen your primitive sophistry is laughable!

It is with this kind of charlatanism that you want to sell the idea of three headed Jesus, your triune monster god.

Part of him act as the bloodthirsty God the father who like the ISIS guys thinks only blood of his son can provide atonement! Indeed a hilarious stupidity, if was not such an appalling belief.

Part of him impregnate his poor virgin mother, to be able to be crucified by his own self!! One can see why you pathetically try to convince us that it does not really matter what is rational or what is the TRUTH, "it is what the Church says that matters"!!

This is exactly how You Christians executed Giordano Bruno, who Bruno advocating a Copernican cosmology, and could not buy the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth, the virginity of his mother Mary, and the doctrine of the Trinity. This how you Christians silenced Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo.

O poor wretched ma! Repent!

Nobody need any scholarship about the stupidity of your beliefs. As the wise sage said "the sun is the proof of of sunshine!!"

Royal Son said...

Did I miss the part where Behieh Ruhi proved Song of Solomon 5:16 was speaking about Muhammad?

Behieh Ruhi said...

Hmm! Royal Son you poor wretched creature! Why art thou not remainst silent and tryst to learn?

Art you not awarest that the New Testament is a forgery?

Is it not written by impostors taking on the names of apostles like Paul. I do not need to show my scholarship on this issue, just read Professor Bart Ehrman, a renowned biblical scholar's book “Forged.” Or read Parker (1997), or Wells (1999) and many other Christian scholars.

I do not need Solomon 5, 16, because I can read Jesus words in the last supper, in the original bible, where Jesus clearly sayst: "אני מעיד כי אין אלוהים מלבד אלוהים, ואני מעיד כי מוחמד בן עבדאללה הוא הנביא השליח של אלוהים אשר היה מושלם שלי המסר במהלך ההנפקה שלו, אשר יהיה סופי."

Of course, these verses were erased like many other verses, such as verses 17-20, in Luke 22.19-20, which are Jesus' words about the bread and the cup at the last supper, and are clear forgery which dramatically distort the Doctrine of Atonement.

Codex Bezae does not have the material of part of verse 19 and of verse 20 which appear in Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. The extra material in Sinaiticus and Vaticanus introduces the notion of atonement ("my body that is given for you ... my blood that is shed for you.") Without this material, there is no doctrine of atonement in Luke! (or for that matter, in Luke's other gospel, Acts.) Here is what Wells (1999) says on this issue:

"[This material] is widely regarded as added by a later hand so as to bring Luke's version of the eucharistic words into line with that of Mark and Matthew. The key elements of the vocabulary of these verses are otherwise foreign to Luke, who elsewhere consistently portrays the death of Jesus not as an atoning sacrifice, but as a miscarriage of justice that God reversed by vindicating him at the resurrection. Luke has even eliminated the notion of atonement from the one source we are virtually certain he had before him, namely the gospel of Mark; for he omits Mk. 10:45 ("the Son of man came ... to give his life a ransom for many") and so presumably did not find its theology acceptable." (Wells 1999, p. 255).

Royal Son said...

Ok great, So Behieh Ruhi has essentially thrown the towel in as far as Song of Solomon 5:16 goes.

It's good to see at least one muslim here has come to terms with the fact that Muhammad has nothing to do with the passage.