Friday, December 20, 2013

Joshua Evans (Yusha Evans) on the Deity of Christ: Part Two

Here is Part Two of our four-part series responding to Joshua Evans (Yusha Evans) on the Deity of Christ. Evans is a former Christian youth pastor, who converted to Islam and presented his "Top 10 Reasons Why Jesus Is Not God" on the Deen Show. Watch what happens when his claims are subjected to careful scrutiny.

23 comments:

Greg Abdul said...

We Muslims have a simple point. We say Jesus was a man and it is wrong to worship a man. There have been many special men throughout history. We say God is God and God is God all by Himself. We say one is one and three is is three and three is not one. You have a God-given right to believe as you wish. We believe God is One and that means God can't be Jesus because Jesus prayed to the One God.

Greg Abdul said...

the other thing I would ask is, dialogue with Muslims. We don't believe the same things but we can have civil conversations and agree to disagree. If you won't have a Muslim sit with you as you discuss Islam, it is as if you are running from something that we can say and you can only win if the other side is not there to talk back to you.

David Wood said...

Greg Abdul said: "You have a God-given right to believe as you wish"

Actually, the Qur'an commands you to violently subjugate us because of our beliefs (9:29). And the Qur'an calls on Allah to destroy us for our beliefs (9:30). The Qur'an even calls us "the worst of creatures" because of our beliefs (98:6).

Greg Abdul said: "We believe God is One and that means God can't be Jesus because Jesus prayed to the One God."

We answer the "prayer" objection in this series of videos. May I ask, who was Allah praying to?

Greg Abdul said: "the other thing I would ask is, dialogue with Muslims"

If you click on the "debate" tab, you'll see that we've been in tons of public debates and dialogues with Muslims (I've been in more than 40 myself).

Greg Abdul said: "If you won't have a Muslim sit with you as you discuss Islam"

Did you even watch the videos? We repeatedly invite Joshua Evans to join us on the show. It's Muslims who are afraid of serious dialogue, not us. If you watch these videos, you'll see why Muslims are afraid. Their objections are easily refuted.

Don't believe me? Contact Joshua Evans and tell him you want him to appear on the show with us. See how he reacts (and the excuses he makes!).

rs roudh said...

Can Muslims cite even one instance from the entire corpus of Islamic scripture where Muhammad in the 23 years of his mission, in any of his numerous exchanges with the Jews, accused them of textually corrupting the Torah? Can Muslims cite just one instance where the Jews responded to or defended their Torah against this charge?


In all the exchanges between the Jews and Muhammad the only book that was ever rejected as false was the Quran. Despite the fact that the majority of the Jews repeatedly condemned his Quran as a fabrication, Muhammad never once dared to question the textual integrity of their book.


‘For our part we don't see how your Qur'an recitals are arranged anything like our Torah is’. ‘You know quite well that the Qur’an is from Allah. You will find it written in the Torah which you have’. Ishaq: 269


Even when asked, Muhammad made no attempt to explain why his Quran was so different from the Torah. It is because of this divergence, that the Jews here rejected his Quran. If ever there was a time then in his 23 year ministry to tell the Jews that their Torah was corrupt then it was here. His utter failure to do so here, and in every other exchange he had with the Jews, proves that he did not consider the Torah to be corrupt.


Is it not blatantly obvious that the reason why there is absolutely no record in the Islamic scriptures, of the Jews ever defending their Torah against the charge of corruption is because this charge was never made?

parisclaims said...

Nice of you to pop in Abdul. maybe I've got the wrong impression, but from what I've seen most muslims appear to worship mohammed.
One of the funniest debates I've seen is when some clueless imam was up against Spencer, threw the towel in and admitted "he is an expert on islam"

Emmanuel Kgomo said...

Greg Abdul said: "We say God is God and God is God all by Himself. We say one is one and three is is three and three is not one."

Am i wrong if I say Greg Abdul is one made of three entities namely body, spirit and soul?
The spirit will however one day leave the body of Greg to be with Allah... If I'm right how then is it impossible for God to separate part of Himself for the purpose of salvation by making Himself human?

Adamski Bosh said...

How can truth win against a group who put obedience higher than truth, and, have death sentences against apostates ?

I dont even think Joshua Evans is being deceptive in his video, he is not being arrogant in what he is doing, it is just cognitive dissonance, which in some ways is worse because he does believe what he says.

David and Sam - thank you ! Will pray for you this Christmas.

(ps, Ive not been watching these videos for too long but Sam appears very chilled out compared to earlier videos - he's a bit less 'Alex Jones')

hugh watt said...

I checked on Yusha's Facebook page and 3 of the videos have been posted there. So far no Muslims have commented about them, including Yusha.

Greg Abdul, why not ask him to answer to these?

"Let our enemies laugh now and cry later" https://www.facebook.com/pages/Yusha-Evans/162146873817921

hugh watt said...

Adamski

Maybe Sam's been offered Phil Robertson's part in Duck Dynasty. He's sure got the beard for it:)

Adamski Bosh said...

Hi Hugh
I had to look that up as Im living in Scotland, but, yes I think I see your point - I think Sam needs to trademark his beard for sure !

Greg Abdul said...

Mr. Wood, have you been a Muslim? Which Islamic university did you study at where they told you to tell me my religion? I can tell you that you worship a man. I am certainly NOT lying when I say so. I am an ex Christian who studied your faith for decades. Now tell me you are an ex muslim? You studied at an Islamic University? I know you have not, yet you guys have this trick. It doesn't matter what our teacher and scholars actually teach. When you ignore the facts of Islamic scholarship, doesn't that make you dishonest? I mean, this is my point. You can't actually debate what we believe. You have to make up things. This is why I do NOT bother to watch your videos. You pray to a man. We don't. Please correct me on these two simple points before you start with the "I'm white so I know everything" nonsense please.

Greg Abdul said...

quick answers to a few others here:
people here tend to make up things:

RS, the quran condemns those who alter their scripture for money. This is a reference to Jewish scholarship.

Paris, our book SPECIFICALLY forbids us from worshiping any man and repeated states that our Prophet was only a man. His message, to never worship anything other than the God of Abraham is what elevates him.

Kgo, I am one man with many facets. You are doing the Christian thing of imaging God as a man. The Torah says "Hear O Israel, your God is One." Who's wrong: you or the Torah? In death we believe you do not get to be with God until Judgement day. In Islam, body and soul wait in the grave for judgement day.

Mr. Bosh, I ask that you understand that Islam is growing in America. All of you need to drop the straw men arguments. In Islam we are taught to love the truth. You are angry at us because one of our truths is that we can never worship ANY man. Not Caesar, not Pharaoh, not Jesus.

We worship the God of Abraham without partner. That is no reason to hate us or make up things about us. We are your neighbors and co-workers and we are growing right here in your backyard. so please learn to live with us. We are command by the Quran to live with you in peace as long as you accept us as Muslims. And I am not making things up.

David Wood said...

Greg Abdul said: "Mr. Wood, have you been a Muslim? Which Islamic university did you study at where they told you to tell me my religion?"

Was your prophet ever a Christian? Which Christian university did your illiterate prophet study at? Following your logic, we should reject everything he says. LOL!

Greg Abdul said: "I can tell you that you worship a man. I am certainly NOT lying when I say so. I am an ex Christian who studied your faith for decades."

So now you bow down to a pagan temple (the Kaaba) and strive to kiss the Black Stone (a pagan idol)???

Greg Abdul said: "When you ignore the facts of Islamic scholarship, doesn't that make you dishonest?"

If you want to show we're dishonest, show us where we said something false. But you won't, will you? I can show you where your prophet said all kinds of false things, but this doesn't seem to bother you. Yet you accuse me of deception without offering any evidence. Is this what your religion teaches you?

Greg Abdul said: "I mean, this is my point. You can't actually debate what we believe. You have to make up things. This is why I do NOT bother to watch your videos."

Interesting. You don't watch my videos, yet you claim to know I deceive people in my videos. LOL!

Greg Abdul said: "Please correct me on these two simple points before you start with the 'I'm white so I know everything' nonsense please."

Hmmm. Now you're accusing me of racism, and deliberately attributing to me something I never said? Does your religion teach you to falsely accuse people? Wonderful religion you have! I guess you'll compare me to Hitler next, right? That's what I call "desperation." All to common among Muslims who try to argue. (BTW, why did Muhammad call Ethiopians "raisin-heads"? Are you as racist as your prophet?)

But you do worship a man. Don't you say, "And peace be upon YOU, O Prophet," during your prayers? Why are you talking to a man in your prayers???

And we don't worship a man. We worship the God-Man, as His own followers did. You claim to believe in those followers, yet you mock their beliefs!

David Wood said...

Greg, do you believe that God can enter into his creation or not? If he can, then you'll need a better reason to attack Jesus than his deity. If he can't, then the Qur'an is false, because the Qur'an declares that Allah entered into the fire to speak to Moses.

Your prophet also claimed that your god has a physical body. So you worship a physical being. But you're not an idolater, right? LOL!

aaron said...

@greg

sounds like a genetic fallacy from you

"Mr. Wood, have you been a Muslim? Which Islamic university did you study at where they told you to tell me my religion"

just because someone has not been something or studied at a place does not mean he does not have the right information.

so yawns try again

hugh watt said...

Just checked back on Yusha's Facebook page. He removed the videos.

Adamski Bosh said...

Dear Greg,

You replied to me, "You are angry at us because one of our truths is that we can never worship ANY man"

Please consider this - truth is truth Greg. It must be objective, not subjective (e.g. not 'our truth').

I dont feel angry towards you or Muslims, however, I think your race baiting comment diminishes any points you wish to make and doesnt make you look good to anybody.

rs roudh said...

Greg

My comment was in reference to face to face debates or exchanges between Muhammad and the Jews.

The majority of the Jews consistently rejected the Quran as a false revelation because amongst other things it seriously contradicted the Torah. In view of this we would have expected the issue of Torah corruption to have been the biggest bone of contention between them, the never ending argument (AS IT IS TODAY).

In fact this issue should have been the mother of all arguments in seventh century Medina. This without doubt would have been the most crucial and pivotal issue between them because if the Torah had not been corrupted then Muhammad was a fake. We should have expected hundreds of examples of exchangse concerning this issue. Yet to our astonishment we find that in the Islamic sources the issue of corruption is a total non-issue!!! There is zero debate or discussion between them concerning the corruption of the Torah!!!

In addition the Jews were not the sort of people to let attacks upon the integrity of their Torah go without reply. Yet there is absolutely no record in the Islamic scriptures where Jews responded to the charge of corruption or even that they were ever aware of such a charge!!!

Why do we not find a single instance where Muhammad says to the Jews “your Torah is corrupt”. Did they not tell Muhammad countless times that he was a charlatan?

Greg Abdul said...

RS, Jewish scholars say those who teach you to worship Jesus are charlatans. The Jewish faith says God is One...like it says in your Bible and like it says in our Quran. The difference in Judaism and Islam is, we say Jesus was one of the greatest things God ever created. In Judaism Jesus has NO standing. Of course we disagree about Prophet Muhammad. But the core of Islam is that God is One. That is the message of Muhammad and I am pretty sure Jewish people thinks that's a true statement. You say God is three. We disagree with the Jews over one prophet. You disagree with us both about the nature of God.

Deleting said...

@greg Abdul which Jewish scholars?

rs roudh said...

Greg


With respect you have completely failed to address the points I made.


Muslims claim that Muhammad taught that the Torah was corrupt. If this claim is true then he must have told this to the Jews since one of the main reasons for which they rejected him was that the Quran contradicted their Torah. Therefore we should expect to find evidence for the charge of corruption in the exchanges that took place between them.


The majority of the Jews consistently rejected him and his Quran as a fraud. If Muhammad had really explained the discrepancies between the Quran and the Torah by claiming that the Torah was corrupt then the Jews could not have failed to give some response to this charge. There can be no doubt then that a debate over this issue would have raged in seventh century Medina. This debate would have dwarfed any other since Muhammad’s credibility hung upon it.


So why do we never find in the Islamic sources Muhammad ever telling the Jews that their Torah is corrupt? Why do we never find the Jews ever responding to this charge? In all the exchanges between Muhammad and the Jews why is there total silence on this critical and decisive issue? Why do we find in these exchanges much evidence of the Jews rejecting the Quran as a fabrication but zero evidence of Muhammad rejecting the Torah as corrupt?


To have any hope of gaining acceptance Muhammad had to convince the Jews that their Torah was corrupt. Can you show me just one occasion from his 23 year ministry, when to their face, he told them that the Torah was corrupt?


rs roudh said...

Greg


Addendum


Since you mentioned Jesus in your response to me I will add the following:


Despite unprecedented research aimed at discovering the historical Jesus no respected independent Bible scholar has uncovered evidence which leads him to conclude that Jesus (or his early followers) taught that the Torah existing in the first century was corrupt.


There is zero evidence that the Jews found Jesus guilty of blaspheming the Torah for rejecting its textual integrity, Neither is there any evidence that they tried to stone him to death for this offence.


There is zero evidence that a book called the “Injeel” given to Jesus by Allah has ever existed.


There is zero evidence that John the Baptist (Yahya?) taught that the Torah was corrupt. Salome would not have needed to seduce Herod in order to get him to execute John if the latter had been blaspheming the Torah, as the Jews would have done the job for her,


Zechariah (Zakaria?) or Mary would not have lasted five minutes in the Temple if they had blasphemed the Torah.

Hazakim1 said...

Greg Abdul....typical muslim response. Makes fully confident assertions (assuming Islam is true because he believes it to be) and that Christians are fabricating and lying.....yet completely unwilling to even LISTEN to a dialouge/debate between a top muslim scholar and a Christian about these very issues. For the muslim, ignorance is bliss.