Tuesday, July 23, 2013

A Gift that Keeps on Giving: Yahya Snow's Review of My Debate With Osama Abdallah on Muhammad in the Bible - Part Two


Yahya thinks his “post-debate scrutiny” shores up the inequities that he couldn’t help but admit characterized Osama’s presentation. We have already seen some of the myriad ways that Yahya has failed to live up to this claim. The following picks up from where I left off in part one.

Post-Debate Scrutiny

Since Yahya believes the debate primarily centered on and was to be won or lost on the basis of Deuteronomy 18, I will begin with the claim that this prophecy is about Muhammad. This will also set the tone for my response to his bald-faced and shameless admission that Muslims resort to an esoteric reading of Deuteronomy 33 in order to convince themselves that it is about Muhammad, and will also prepare us for a discussion of the predictions of the coming Servant in the book of the prophet Isaiah that Yahya completely skirted in his review (something you will see if you watch the debate instead of taking Yahya’s self-serving and fear-induced plea not to watch it).

Deuteronomy 18

The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers, you shall listen to him. This is according to all that you asked of the Lord your God in Horeb on the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will die.’ The Lord said to me, ‘They have spoken well. I will raise up a prophet from among their brothers like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.

In the debate I made three major points about what it meant to be “like Moses” relevant to the prophecy found in Deuteronomy 18. According to the immediate and broader context of this passage in the Torah the prophet would: 1) be an Israelite; 2) know God face to face and receive His revelations directly; and 3) perform signs and wonders in the sight of all Israel.

I argued that the prophet had to be an Israelite on a number of grounds:

a) The more primary meaning of a word or phrase rather than one of its secondary or more remote meanings holds unless contrary evidence can be provided. You don’t first select for a remote meaning if one of the more common meanings makes perfect sense when there are no good or better reasons to take it otherwise. In this case, taking “brother,” ach, to refer to the descendants of Ishmael rather than a fellow Israelite, someone from the tribes that descended from Jacob, is clearly to select for a more remote meaning. The verse itself clearly makes sense when understood as referring to a fellow Israelite, and there is no good reason to think it is referring to a non-Israelite. Indeed, the whole passage puts all the emphasis on Israel.

The Lord YOUR God will raise up FOR YOU a prophet like me FROM AMONG YOU, from YOUR brothers, YOU shall listen to him. This is according to all that YOU asked of the Lord YOUR God in Horeb on the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let ME not hear again the voice of the Lord MY God, let ME not see this great fire anymore, or I will die.’ The Lord said to me, ‘THEY have spoken well. I will raise up a prophet FROM AMONG THEIR brothers like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak TO THEM all that I command him. It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.

Osama offered no response to this observation in the debate. Neither did Yahya in his “post-debate scrutiny.”

b) The immediate context of the passage clearly shows that the Israelites were not to look to someone from the other nations in order to discern God’s will. God would raise up a prophet for them in Moses’ stead so that they will not need to look outside the covenant community to know God’s will.

When YOU enter the land which the Lord YOUR God gives YOU, YOU shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of THOSE NATIONS. There shall not be found AMONG YOU anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord YOUR God will drive THEM out before YOU. YOU shall be blameless before the Lord YOUR God. For THOSE NATIONS, which YOU shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so.

It was precisely against this backdrop that Moses went on to speak the words of the prophecy in question, promising that God would raise up for the people a prophet from among their brethren, i.e. from among the children of Israel, rather than from among the nations outside of Israel that were given over to abominations in the sight of God.
Once again, Osama had nothing to say about this point in the debate, and nothing at all is said about it in Yahya’s “post-debate scrutiny.”

c) The broader context also argues for understanding that “the Prophet” would be an Israelite. The broader context is dealing with the three anointed offices of the Israelite economy: the offices of king (Dt. 17:14-20), priest (Dt. 18:1-14), and prophet (Dt. 18:15-22). According to the requirements of the former two offices, any person anointed to serve in those capacities had to be an Israelite, and so, not only would one expect, by way of symmetry, that the same would go for the prophetic office, but the fact that the very same language is used in all three cases puts the proverbial nail in the coffin. The relevant portion regarding each office follows:

KING:

When YOU enter the land which the Lord YOUR God gives YOU, and YOU possess it and live in it, and YOU say, ‘I will set a king over ME like all the nations who are around ME,’ YOU shall surely set a king over YOU whom the Lord YOUR God chooses, one from among YOUR BROTHERS you shall set as king over YOURSELVES; YOU may not put a foreigner over yourselves who is not your BROTHER. Moreover, he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor shall he cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, since the Lord has said to YOU, ‘YOU shall never again return that way.’ He shall not multiply wives for himself, or else his heart will turn away; nor shall he greatly increase silver and gold for himself.
Now it shall come about when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, he shall write for himself a copy of this law on a scroll in the presence of the Levitical priests. It shall be with him and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the Lord his God, by carefully observing all the words of this law and these statutes, that his heart may not be lifted up above his BROTHERS and that he may not turn aside from the commandment, to the right or the left, so that he and his sons may continue long in his kingdom IN THE MIDST OF ISRAEL. (Deuteronomy 17:14-20)

PRIEST:

The Levitical priests, the whole tribe of Levi, shall have no portion or inheritance WITH ISRAEL; they shall eat the Lord’s offerings by fire and His portion. They shall have no inheritance among THEIR BROTHERS; the Lord is their inheritance, as He promised them.
Now this shall be the priests’ due from the people, from those who offer a sacrifice, either an ox or a sheep, of which they shall give to the priest the shoulder and the two cheeks and the stomach. You shall give him the first fruits of your grain, your new wine, and your oil, and the first shearing of your sheep. For the Lord your God has chosen him and his sons FROM ALL YOUR TRIBES, to stand and serve in the name of the Lord forever.
Now if a Levite comes from any of YOUR towns THROUGHOUT ISRAEL WHERE HE RESIDES, and comes whenever he desires to the place which the Lord chooses, then he shall serve in the name of the Lord his God, like all his fellow Levites who stand there before the Lord. They shall eat equal portions, except what they receive from the sale of their fathers’ estates. (Leviticus 17:1-8)

The same language is used for these other offices to demarcate just who can serve in these capacities, and it plainly, nay, emphatically indicates that they had to be Israelites without exception.

Incredibly, while Osama does not address this in the debate, this is the only positive argument that I put forward that Yahya does say something about in his so-called “post-debate scrutiny” that we were told is going to make up for Osama’s failure. Yet, what Yahya had to say shows that he was completely stupefied and bereft of any answer just as much as Osama was:

Anthony Rogers then presents a case based on context as the word brethren earlier on in this chapter refers to Israelites. This is a GOOD POINT Rogers raises – one that must be given further thought.… Anthony did bring an interesting argument forward concerning context. (emphasis mine)

So of the three arguments I gave, not even one has been refuted in what Yahya has gratuitously called his “post-debate scrutiny.” Although it hardly needs to be said, scrutiny that does not scrutinize is not scrutiny at all. What makes this rather humorous is that Yahya’s excuse for Osama was that he had little time to prepare for the debate (truth be told, along with the other three debaters, I was only told I would be debating after Osama first agreed to it with George Saieg and The Center for Religious Debate/Ministry to Muslims). The reason this is humorous is because it means that Yahya did just as bad if not worse than Osama in his attempts to respond to my arguments even though he had time and leisure in which to craft his response. (Another line of argumentation showing that the prophet had to be an Israelite can be found in an appendix to my series on Deuteronomy 18: Appendix I: The Prophet and the Prophets.)

Because Yahya could not refute my points he decided to misrepresent (or possibly he just misunderstood) something I said about the range of possible meanings that the Hebrew word ach could have. Yahya represents me as saying that the word for “brother” cannot be used to refer to more distant relationships between people beyond those who have the same father or who come from the same tribe or nation.

All in all, Abdallah made the case that Arabs are indeed the brethren of Jews so strengthened the affirmative position and left Rogers with no room to manoeuvre. Or did he?

Rogers actually showed his staunch bias in this regard as he did not even grant the meaning which was offered by Abdallah. Erm, Strongs Accordance at Blueletterbible.com confirms the possible meaning of 'relative' and 'kinship' so is not simply restricted to blood brother. Rogers looked silly here due to his extreme bias which was a feature throughout the debate.

But this is not what I said in the debate. What I said was that the word “brother” to my knowledge is never specifically used to refer to the relationship between the descendants of Jacob and the descendants of Jacob’s uncle Ishmael. Osama said that Obadiah 1 uses the word “brother” in this way, i.e. to refer to the relationship between Ishmaelites and Israelites, but a cursory reading of the verse quickly reveals that it is not referring to Ishmaelites at all but rather to the descendants of Esau/Edom, the latter of whom actually was Jacob’s brother and not his uncle.

“Will I not on that day,” declares the LORD, “destroy wise men from EDOM and understanding from the mountain of ESAU? Then your mighty men will be dismayed, O Teman, so that everyone may be cut off from the mountain of Esau by slaughter. Because of violence to your brother Jacob, you will be covered with shame, and you will be cut off forever.” (Obadiah 1:8-10)

So for good reason I did not grant in the debate that it could specifically be used to refer to an Ishmaelite in relation to an Israelite. At the very least there is no unequivocal example of such a usage that I know of, and neither Osama nor Yahya showed otherwise. Even if they could show that it is used that way elsewhere, the fact that it could be used in this loose way in certain contexts does nothing to overturn the grammatical and contextual arguments I mentioned above for Deuteronomy 18 which Osama and now Yahya spectacularly failed to address.

A final point that Yahya brings up to show that Jews and Arabs are cousins who could be called “brothers” is Matthew 21:43 ("Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and be given to a people producing its fruits"). But this passage is not talking about the “Arab” nation as such and does not even use the word “brother.” This passage is part and parcel of the trajectory of Matthew’s Gospel which leads up to the great commission. In Matthew Jesus is presented as the true Israel, the one who would fulfill the promises made to Israel and be the founder of a new people of God, a people who come out of every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue. That is, the kingdom of God would no longer be defined along racial or geo-political lines, but would be proclaimed to all nations and would be entered by faith. All people, whether Jew or Gentile, solely on the basis of faith, would form this new nation.

Thus Yahya’s appeal to Matthew 21:43 suffers from profound ignorance of a central thesis of the book itself: the Kingdom is being taken away from the nation of Israel, and the new nation that it will be given to is Messiah’s nation or people, i.e. all those everywhere, whether Jew or Gentile, who are savingly united to Messiah by faith, a faith that is signified and sealed by baptism into the Triune name of God.

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:18-20)

Stay tuned for part three…

63 comments:

Radical Moderate said...

Poor Yahya he doesn't even know what hit him.

Arrow said...

In the Arabic version, this is how Deuteronomy 18 is written:

“The Lord your (the “you” here is singular) God will raise up for you (singular) a prophet like me from among you (singular), from your (singular) brothers, you (plural) shall listen to him.”

I think Arabic translations are closer to the original text than English Translations. I think when you translate from one sister language to another, the meaning is better preserved.

Obviously, Moses here was talking to a single individual, not to a group of people. When he said “from your brothers” he wasn't referring to the brothers of the Jewish people as a whole (i.e Ishmaelites) but to the kinsmen of that particular individual he was addressing.

Naren said...

Dear Anthony,

Since Yahya finds your arguments shallow and weak, any reason why there is no direct debate between you and Yahya... That will be a spectacle to see :)

Hey, and any update on the other two debate videos... m itching to see Osama making a fool of himself. Its surprising to see him blind but confident assertions on his website complete with frills and fancies... then in the face to face interaction, he ends up as a bumbling fool.

I look fwd to hearing from you.

In Christ


Naren

Trinity325 said...

Nice refutation of Yahya Snow. Although regarding Matthew 21:43, I think that passage is Jesus taking the Kingdom from the Pharisees and giving it to other Jews, Although the Gentiles are grafted in later.
BTW Anthony, how long have you guys put up with Snow? Why doesn't he debate Sam Shamoun?

Herakleios said...

@Arrow: The german Translation is using the "singular you" too:
Einen Propheten wird DIR (Singular) der HERR, DEIN (Singular) Gott, auftreten lassen, aus DEINER (Singular) Mitte, aus DEINEN (Singular) Brüdern, so wie mich, auf ihn sollt IHR (plural) hören ....

The english "You" seems to be the Problem. Languages that distinguish between singular and plural "you" get the text more accurate. In german speaking regions that debate would never Show up .. it is clearly adressing a single individual - one could even say, it sounds like it is adressing the "Reader" (although moses is speaking to someone else .. it just sounds that way in the german Translation).

Mary said...

Isn't it interesting (and ridiculous) that Muslims shriek about the Jews being descendants of apes and pigs and then claim they are "brothers?"

betwixt said...

OFF TOPIC:

You, guys, probably already know this, but I just found out Osama Abdullah registered answering-islam.com and redirects it to Answering Christianity. :D

Radical Moderate said...

Looks like u melted the snowman

Rukiah Ali said...

you people are ridiculous ur trying to prove islam is wrong and ur saying muslims hate jews and cristans but its wrong.Cristans and jews are the haters ,and saying muslims are brain dead but really because they are the ones that hate muslims u people are wasting ur own time.

Rukiah Ali said...

please stop and listen ,this blog is called answer muslims but its really a blog were cristans and jews show how much they hate islam, and how much they hate muslims.And they say muslims hate jews and cristans when they are haters of islam and muslims.U people should stop argueing because its just ridiculous.Anyway i can answer all of ur ridiculous questions. Yet this is the wrong way to argue by saying u hate muslim, u r against this person because hes muslim. its wrong to judge someone by thier religon.

Steven Hermansyah said...

@rukiah ali: please show where does it ever show that this blog hates yahya snow? i personally do not hate muslim, even if i am not one. my father is a muslim. but i believe islamic beliefs are ridiculous and many silly things it is saying are being explored and exposed nowadays, thanks to the advancement of information technology. so, please stop whining, and face up the fact, that your beliefs are simply absurd. christians don't hate you, we simply believe, or know even, that you are living in darkness and we want to help you to see the light.

Foolster41 said...

@Rukiah Ali: Yawn, another muslim who while telling us Islam is peaceful really shows in doing so he is an islamic supremiscist, telling us we should not critisize Islam, and throwing out ad honim attacks of accusing us of "hating" because we dare to criticisze what Mohmmad taught and did! Apparently hypocrisy is Halal in Islam.

Also notice how he claims he can explain everything, but doesn't even begin to.

If he is honest though, maybe he can explain how David is wrong about Dut 18, and how it shows Mohammad was prophisized in the bible. Then maybe he can answer the seemingly open ended command to subjugate non-believers in Q. 9:29, and the haddith about how the end times won't come until Jews are killed. (Muslim 6981). Also, try to use standard English. (it's "you" and "you're" or "you're")

Rukiah Ali said...

leave me alone ur arguing against an child, a mulsim child, i dont hate christans or jews. u hate me because im mulsim u have some nerve to judge me.u people are ridiculous. u have rage within u thats why ur doing this.oh and by the way im 11 yrs old and ur ab adult so it will be silly arguing against someone like me. any way im just puting u, ur,r for short .Dont judge me.

Rukiah Ali said...

im not living in darkness like someone like u is close with god. u cant judge me.Christans do hate me ur a liar. im no fool its foolish for both of u for you to be doing this against a child.

Rukiah Ali said...

oh fyi rukiah ali is a girls name im a girl not a boy.

Rukiah Ali said...

Hypocrisy is not Halal in Islam. It's human nature.Really u think u know all about islam and u think im a he.

Foolster41 said...

Rukiah Ali is a troll, and so I won't be answering directly.

Once again Rukiah tells people to shut up. I thought Islam was all about freedom (but, remember only if you're a Muslim). Being an 11 year old girl of course doesn't give you special privileges to say things and not allow people to respond. THAT is ridiculous. But of course, her posistion is echoed by many muslims in Muslim countries such as the OIC who want to impose anti-blasphemy laws on non-muslims. This is also consistent with Mohammad's teaching to slay non-believer until they agree with Mohammad's teachings (Quran. 9)

I don't hate muslims (of course, I never said anythingh that would indicate that I do, and I welcome her to show me what I said that would indicate I hate muslims). This is another well-worn tactic, to claim victemhood and claim people hate you because they disagree with you (which of couse is never applied to the muslim, since that means they hate all non-muslims they disagree with).

Also, pointing out that a person is telling people to shut up and not telling them how they are wrong is not judging, it's showing how they are not argueing with truth.

Rukiah Ali has some growing up to do, she's not even acting like an 11 year old.

Foolster41 said...

Also, I never claimed to know all about Islam, and I even asked Rukiah to correct anything wrong said here by myself, or David in this article. Instead of doing that she insists on complaining about being a victim, insisting on people shutting up about Islam (even though she presents no facts to show a person being wrong, it seems even if you are right you shouldn't speak the truth about Islam) and using name calling, So very honest of her.

Rukiah Ali said...

you need to grow up u arguing against an eleven year old im not name calling u r. im acting older than u i can out smart u im not telling anyone to shut up i never said that. foolster 41 im more hounest than u, u speak lies of islam. That bomb near the mousqe wasent set up by a muslim it was a cristan dressed up as a muslim.U called me a troll ur name calling now.Well ur a fool.I dont like the fact ur trying to make islam look bad.I am a victum in school my class mates treat me as if i wasent a human being but i am and they make fun of me and beat me up . i had a muslim freind she never called me a single name she honoust, and the only freind that respects me.You act like a whining five year old complaning of how u think im wrong.I never curse, u curse ur own food.

aaron said...

@ rukiah
Again if you are going to make a claim about something even if you are 11 year old at least have the common sense to back it up with evidence. my youngest brother for example would on his research assignments at least writes a bibliography/reference on where he got his information so we can look it up. a example would be the chapter and verse which would be enough and he himself is 11 this year. and at least listen to what foolster said instead of claiming people are hater prove them wrong with what they have said with evidence like how Anthony disproved Yahya by quoting what yahya has said and provide evidence to why he was wrong

Foolster41 said...

" im not telling anyone to shut up i never said that"
Of course she did. She said mutliolpe times people should stop arghueing against Islam, without actually presenting evidence why what they say is wrong. that's called telling someone to shut up, but it's clear she's not interested in debate, she just wants to shout down people and call them "haters", and complain about how she's a victem instead of presenting reasoned evidence. (that's called being a troll by the way).

Rukiah Ali said...

I did did u read my comment I used proof with evidnce in what I experienced dont u see. U cant read its right in front of u.

I did did u read my comment I used proof with evidnce in what I experienced dont u see. U cant read its right in front of u.

Deleting said...

Rukiah said, 'I am a victum in school my class mates treat me as if i wasent a human being but i am and they make fun of me and beat me up.'

...I'm pretty sure you have more to do with that then you let on.

Be lucky if that's all you get.

However Knowing what little we do know about you, I wouldn't be surprised if you run around telling people 'cristans' and Jews lurk around in the middle of the night for little Muslim children to cook and eat.

Are you sure you're not from Palestine?

Steven Hermansyah said...

@rukiah, you remind me a lot about how my father raised me, he always told be someday when we died, we would go to heaven and we will watch my christian mother and grandparents burning in hell. islam only taught fear, and fear of having fear. it has nothing positive to offer the world. be a good 11 years old, stay at school, study hard, dont become a suicide bomber, maybe someday when you are grown up, you would leave islam and become a functional and productive member of society.

aaron said...

@rukiah
i recall you calling us "brain dead" in the first place.

" Dont judge me.""leave me alone" is equivalent to telling us not to critiquing what you are writing and not letting us respond which is equivalent to telling us to "Shut up" and not criticize your behavior of being a internet troll e.g. double/triple posting for one sentence replies, calling others liars without any proof, going off topic.

what you don;t understand is the consequences of what you are saying.

as for saying our are outsmarting us. I can;t take you seriously because at this point since you don;t even understand the consequences of what you are saying

aaron said...

@rukiah

continue part 2

as for calling a troll. foolster has a right to call you that because he actually proved what you are doing is trolling by going off topic and considering it is a discussion blog then and not letting us respond to you by saying "don;t judge me"etc

aaron said...

@rukiah

the topic from this blog post is from a debate done earlier and we were pointing out even yahya post debate scrutiny was not adequate.

you say you can answer ridiculous questions on this topic but you haven;t even done any of it. where did you prove any of what we said was ridiculous? please put qoute here about you refuting deut 18.

waiting for you to "attempt" to use evidence to disprove us. and what have you experinced got anything to do with deut 18 which this post was suppose to be about ? the reality is that you are going off topic

Foolster41 said...

Rukiah needs to look up what the word "evidence" means in the dictionary quick, because unless she personally experience somehow the prophecy of Moses, or personally experienced all the terrorism claimed to be by muslims actually not being by muslims (was she there at 9/11, at 7/7, at Boston? She must get around!) that's not evidence that proves Moses was spoken of in Deuteronomy, or that Islam is peaceful. That's called a red herring argument.

I stand by my statement, she is indeed being a troll.

Some reading for Rukiah:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/evidence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring#Logical_fallacy

Deleting said...

@foolster she has said earlier she's eleven years old. If its true then she's not going to know what a red herring is. She can barely spell as it is.
Really wish admins would block her. This is no place for a child to interrupt and interfere with conversations.

Rukiah Ali said...

Im not telling anyone to shut up number 1. Number 2 Im not a troll. Number 3 I can do it, even if im young. Ur never to old or to young to do anything.

Rukiah Ali said...

Look i was born in here my mom is spanish,my dad is egyptain.Im very mixed My family is spreded all over the world some family members I never saw in my life.

Rukiah Ali said...

Theres a postive and negitive side for everything. Even though the Quran states to kill the nonbeleivers theres a good side u people like to focaus on the bad side. Theres a bad for ur religon to. How come a dead person be God? How can God die and come back to life? Its not possible, Jessus is not god, bassed on who wrote the bible I wouldnt agree with cristans or jews. U people like to sinmg and dance for god, and call it"prasing the lord".U people can be crazy.

aaron said...

rukiah please look up the definition of what a troll is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

as for your "How come a dead person be God?" the death of the body does not mean the death of the spirit and because you still exist at that point of time spiritually.

"How can God die and come back to life? " Do you know how bad that question because by saying you imply that god does not control life and death since god can;t come back to life after suffering a physical death.

that is how bad your argument is

also those questions was completely off topic of

""A Gift that Keeps on Giving: Yahya Snow's Review of My Debate With Osama Abdallah on Muhammad in the Bible - Part Two"

nothing about yahya or osama's debate or even about Muhummed in the bible which means you are off topic again

Foolster41 said...

I like how she contrasts the "bad side" of Islam being killing non-believers, but the bad side of Christians that make us "crazy" is believing in a God who can die and bring himself back to life.

perhaps she can explain if Jesus isn't God, then how can Muslims claim him as a prophet? He said He was God, and his followers who were eye witnesses wrote about the miracles he did and how he came back to life. We have records of those writings some 500 years before Mohammad was even born (so far from being a conspiracy cooked up after Mohammad), so unless there was some sort of time travel conspiracy there is no way you can both accept Jesus as a prophet of Islam and reject the new testament. Muslims talk about how the New testiment is corrutped, but then what happened to the "original", and how did the message get so fundamentally altered?

I've asked this of many Muslims, and none have answered.

I can't imagine why.

Deleting said...

Rukiah said' Jessus is not god, bassed on who wrote the bible I wouldnt agree with cristans or jews.'

Child, you like most Muslims, have NEVER even read the bible. You probably don't even know what it is or what one looks like.

I'll be nicer than you deserve and give you a big hint: it's about Jesus from beginning to end. All of it. And it's about sin and judgment for ALL those who don't stop sinning in repentance in faith in him. That means you.

Come back in ten years time after you have read it and maybe then we can talk.

Deleting said...

Rukiah also said, 'Even though the Quran states to kill the nonbeleivers theres a good side u people like to focaus on the bad side.'

And here's where mind control begins.... Rukiah there is not a good side to any book whose consistent marching orders are to 'kill the non believers'.

There is no good side to the Koran. Period!

You are one twisted little kid if this is what you really believe. No wonder the other kids at school hate you.

Derek Adams said...

Rukiah, please refrain from posting, we are trying to focus on the high quality content of Anthony Rogers, not read the ramblings of an eleven year old boy who can't make a single coherent sentence in English.

If you are worried about Christians hating Muslims, you can thank your God Allah for the hate that he gave to the Christians:

And from those who call themselves Christians, We took their covenant, but they have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. SO WE PLANTED AMONGST THEM ENMITY AND HATRED TILL THE DAY OF RESSURECTION(when they discarded Allah's Book, disobeyed Allah's Messengers and His Orders and transgressed beyond bounds in Allah's disobedience), and Allah will inform them of what they used to do. 5:14

Give credit to whom it is due, young Muslim.

It is best not to trust in the deception your parents have taught you, and learn the truth at a young age.

Rukiah Ali said...

Islam has a good side you dont know it ,your trying to scilence me and get your way ,Jesus is not god a man cannot be god, god is no spirit or soul. I'm not a verb troll ethier I can spell. I'm no fool, I'M NOT AN ELEVEN YEAR OLD BOY, IM A GIRL HOW MANY TIME I TOLD U. I KNOW HOW TO SPEAK AND WRITE ENGLISH I WAS BORN HERE. IF YOU WANT FOR NOW ON ON THIS BLOG I WONT SHORTEN WORDS, I WILL TYPE IN COMPLETE SENTENCES.I'M NOT OFF TOPIC IM RESPONDING TO YOUR INSULTS TO ME. MY JEWISH GRANDMOTHER FORCES ME TO LISTENS TO HER READING THE BIBLE I KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. GOD DID NOT GIVE ME HATRED. U PEOPLE HAVE HATRED IN U. U MIGHT HAD NOT READ THE ENTIRE QURAN BECAUSE IT' HARAM(VERY BAD) TO HATE IN ISLAM SO I DON'T KNOW WHATS YOUR REASON FOR YOU PEPOLE TO JUDGE MUSLIMS THAT WAY. IF U PEOPLE DON'T HATE MUSLIMS WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS? I DON'T HATE JEWS OR CHRISTANS. YOU KNOW I'M JUST TRYING TO PROVE ALL OF U ARE WRONG YOU DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH OF ISLAM. A MUSLIM, GOD KNOWS THE RELIGON MORE THAN YOU. AND TO YOUR RIDICULOUS DABATES I WILL SAY YOU PEOPLE ARE SILLY.

Rukiah Ali said...

I RELLY WISH THIS BLOG NEVER EXISTED ALONG WITH YOUR USERS.

Rukiah Ali said...

The Quran won't be teared to shreads your meaningless bible will. If the bible was the sacred book how is it so pacific, it has , pacific dates during the prophet time there were no calendars or microscopes or ways to tell time. Prove it's the truth. Whats your proof it's true. Jesus is not god. He never died on the cross he was still alive. You guys are foolish.

Rukiah Ali said...

NO, YOU DISOBEYED YOUR PARENTS THATS ONE BIG SIN FOR YOU GOOD LUCK ON THAT.

Rukiah Ali said...

theres more than a thousand wars in the bible. The Quran only has 557. Yor religon should be known as the religon of war. hers proof:
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/06/which-is-more-violent-bible-or-quran.html

Rukiah Ali said...

I'm not lying its true the bible has MORE than one thousand wars and violence yet the Quran has 557 verses of violence and war. Now whos the on laughing now: Me at you ridiculous people mabey you guys are brain dead, I guess not. You proboley dont belive me so check ou this:
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/06/which-is-more-violent-bible-or-quran.html

Deleting said...

Rukiah shouted, ' MY JEWISH GRANDMOTHER FORCES ME TO LISTENS TO HER READING THE BIBLE I KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. '

Actually the 'Jewish bible' is commonly called the tanakh and it doesn't include the New Testament so technically this doesn't count as ' I KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.'

More to follow....

Deleting said...

Rukiah said, "I RELLY WISH THIS BLOG NEVER EXISTED ALONG WITH YOUR USERS."

And yet you say you're not hateful.

Deleting said...

"IF U PEOPLE DON'T HATE MUSLIMS WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS? "

Because it's a deceptive religion that 1.5 billion people will follow into hell.

Because it's destructive and people use it to justify killing in the name of Allah. Don't believe me? Go to www.barenakedislam.com. There's a gem of a post showing a hacked up Hindu baby who was killed by Muslims. It's right above a video of a hindu man being killed by muslims after prayer because he walked by them.

We do this to expose islam because every single person is in danger from it.

We don't want to see muslims go to hell.
We don't want to see hindu/buddhist/christian/autheist children being killed.
We don't want another 911.

You consider it hate when in fact you're the one who hates truth and you want to keep as many people in the dark about it so you don't have to see how bad islam is.

Deleting said...

Rukiah said, "If the bible was the sacred book how is it so pacific, it has , pacific dates during the prophet time there were no calendars or microscopes or ways to tell time."

This, in addition to your bad grammar and spelling, is where you make people think you're not from this country. What do you mean by 'pacific'? Do you mean 'specific?'

If you did, you're still wrong. There were calenders before Mohammad's time! The gospels, which are a part of the bible you don't know what that is, and they list out specific times of day so the readers would understand what time of day Jesus died, or what season it was.

The Jews have their own Calender. Technically we're in the year 5773 and that ends September 4th.

The rest of us use the Gregorian (don't we???) but Muslims do use two calenders-ours and the Hijra.

Don't you remember everyone was talking about the 'Mayan Calender' that was supposed to signal the apocalypse? It was pretty well known unless you were living in another country like Saudi Arabia for most of your life. That whole thing was based on a calender ending and how it was supposed to coincide with that time.

aaron said...

Rukiah
"jesus is not god a man cannot be god, god is no spirit or soul."

so many things wrong in that statement that its not funny.

1.we believe god choose to become take a human body to walk among man.

2. if you say god cannot enter the mortal realm and and put his mind into a human body then god is not all powerful which shows you don;t think about what you say

3.when you say god is no spirit or soul. you do realize god does have emotions just like when he is pleased or angered by actions of another. to say otherwise is to say that allah is a machine with artificial intelligence

you displayed you don;t even think of consequences of what you are saying yet again and going off topic of this comment section was originally suppose to be about which was ""A Gift that Keeps on Giving: Yahya Snow's Review of My Debate With Osama Abdallah on Muhammad in the Bible - Part Two""

Rukiah Ali said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
aaron said...

@rukiah

one question then how many chapters was in the bible did that the jewish grand parents make you read and what was the last book in it?

Derek Adams said...

Rukiah said:

"GOD DID NOT GIVE ME HATRED. U PEOPLE HAVE HATRED IN U"

Why isn't this eleven year old boy following his role model Abraham who detested polytheists?

Indeed there has been an excellent EXAMPLE FOR YOU in Ibrahim (Abraham) and those with him, when they said to their people: "Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allah, we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, HOSTILITY AND HATRED FOR EVER, UNTIL YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH ALONE," except the saying of Ibrahim (Abraham) to his father: "Verily, I will ask for forgiveness (from Allah) for you, but I have no power to do anything for you before Allah ." Our Lord! In You (Alone) we put our trust, and to You (Alone) we turn in repentance, and to You (Alone) is (our) final Return, Quran 60:8

So you openly disobey your God who taught you in Abraham is a perfect example to hate polytheists until they believe in ALLAH ALONE? And you are proud of disobeying Allah? Are you serious?

Looks like your going to HELL for disobedience.

Oh never mind, whether you obey Allah or disobey him you are still going to HELL according to Islam young boy:

Then We shall pluck forth from every party whichever of them was the most hardened in disdain of the All-merciful; then We shall know very well those most deserving to burn there. NOT ONE OF YOU THERE IS, BUT HE SHALL GO DOWN TO IT (wariduha); that for thy Lord is a thing decreed, determined. Then We shall deliver those that were godfearing; and the evildoers We shall leave there, hobbling on their knees. 19:70-72

More here: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/muslims_in_hell.htm

Rukiah said:"you people have hatred in you"

That's because your GOD implanted it in us:

And from those who call themselves Christians, We took their covenant, but they have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. SO WE PLANTED AMONGST THEM ENMITY AND HATRED TILL THE DAY OF RESSURECTION(when they discarded Allah's Book, disobeyed Allah's Messengers and His Orders and transgressed beyond bounds in Allah's disobedience), and Allah will inform them of what they used to do. 5:14

If you know English, learn to read properly.

As for wishing this blog away. You are disobeying Allah who WANTS polytheists TO THINK what they do is FAIR AND NORMAL:

And abuse not those whom they call upon besides ALLAH, lest they, out of spite, abuse ALLAH in their ignorance. THUS UNTO EVERY PEOPLE WE HAVE CAUSED THEIR DOINGS TO SEEM FAIR. Then unto their Lord is their return; And HE will inform them of what they used to do. 6:108

Not only is your God causing us to be hateful, he then makes us think that it's perfectly fair!

Rukiah I suggest you stop coming on this blog and actually read the Quran and scholars.

Foolster41 said...

"You think Christans are the one geting killed by muslims. Then your a fool, you should research that check this out:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/07/qaradawi-egyptian-military-recruited-christians-to-kill-the-defenseless-muslims.html"

Hahaha, Okay, I'm starting to wonder if Maybe Rukiah is a parody. Can someone be this dumb and be serious?

She (it's a She Derrik) links to jihadwatch.

The first sentence:
"Retailing lurid fictions in order to incite violence against Egypt's Christians. "

the part of the headline isn't a statement of something happening, it's a quote, an excuse by Muslims to kill Christians.

I especially love the irony that she complains about people researching and she doesn't even read past the headline. Or did she really expect people to only read the headline and not click through?

aaron said...

@rukiah
jihad watch seriously? that is the worst place to make a claim since the whole site is against islam and pro christian. also i read the article and i am rather amused that you did not read the whole thing otherwise you wouldn;t be posting it up

Rukiah Ali said...

Now you proboley don't relize your making fun of me. I'm not a boy I told you that. Like someone like you gose to hevan. You proved that the bible is hateful like you.

bob said...

"I'm not lying its true the bible has MORE than one thousand wars and violence yet the Quran has 557 verses of violence and war. Now whos the on laughing now: Me at you ridiculous people mabey you guys are brain dead, I guess not. You proboley dont belive me so check ou this:
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/06/which-is-more-violent-bible-or-quran.html"

There are more wars and violence in the Bible because the Bible covers a far greater portion of history than the Koran, which has only been around since 600 A.D.

Also the Koran is largely fabricated from bits and pieces of documents and sources of dubious origin, so it is not even a true account of history, and therefore, as a historical document, the Koran cannot even be compared to the Bible.

aaron said...

@ rukiah
wow changing the topic again when we caught you being dishonest on that link and showing us that you haven;t read it at all.


Rukiah Ali said...

I did not change the topic you ridiculous people made me. Really you lie more than I do. You let trash fill your hearts. The bible is so specific, specific times, dates. Noone kept records and saved them when they wrote the bible. The Quran can be compared. Any way it is spelled Quran not koran.

Deleting said...

Rukiah said, "I did not change the topic you ridiculous people made me. "Really you lie more than I do."
So you admit you changed the topic and that you lied about it.



" You let trash fill your hearts. The bible is so specific, specific times, dates. Noone kept records and saved them when they wrote the bible."
Yes they did and secular history confirms the events in the bible took place. You just want to make statements as if they are true when they're not.

Once again Rukiah, you're entitled to your own opinion. You are NOT entitled to your own set of facts.


"The Quran can be compared."
Yet most of the stories in the Koran we can trace to jewish fairy tales and children's stories with a few exceptions of when Muhammad borrowed from the bible and twisted the details, none of which align with history.

Battin' a thousand kid.

"Any way it is spelled Quran not koran."

It can and is spelled both ways without conflicting with the arabic transliteration.

aaron said...

@ Rukiah
have specific time and dates is what makes a historical document accurate. the quran doesn;t in fact its historical accuracy is so bad such as accusing christian worshipeed mary as god or jews saying erza is the son of god when NO WHERE in JEWISH AND CHRISTIAN HISTORY HAS THAT HAPPENED.

so based on your logic we shouldn;t follow a book that has the right record about events that occurred at a specific time in history. also how can one"not keep record when they wrote the bible". You do realize if its written then its recorded and that you contradicted yourself

aaron said...

@ rukiah
it was you who started the topics in the first place take a look at your first post

"you people are ridiculous ur trying to prove islam is wrong and ur saying muslims hate jews and cristans but its wrong.Cristans and jews are the haters ,and saying muslims are brain dead but really because they are the ones that hate muslims u people are wasting ur own time."

what has that do to with osama abdallah;s debate?

your next one
"leave me alone ur arguing against an child, a mulsim child, i dont hate christans or jews. u hate me because im mulsim u have some nerve to judge me.u people are ridiculous. u have rage within u thats why ur doing this.oh and by the way im 11 yrs old and ur ab adult so it will be silly arguing against someone like me. any way im just puting u, ur,r for short .Dont judge me."

when people are responding to you you don;t expect us to respond back to your logical fallacies? many things wrong with that and once diverging the topic from the debate issues initially being discussed

then you go raving about the christian god. off topic again

I can go on but i want to keep this short

so before you accuse us of lying the heart of the problem is that you diverged from the main topic being discussed initially such as facts from osama's debate by accusing of haters initially. which causes us to respond to you. we are only going off topic as a response to your initial action

so in reality to accuse of lying is to show that you are lying as we have wanted the topic to go back to osama's debate and not something random you keep bring up.

aaron said...

@ rukiah
so once again where did we go wrong on deut 18 in osama's debate

i already exposed that you calling us liars because you were the one diverging topic initially and we are only going off topic to respond to you despite that we have asked you to move back to the topic of OSama's debate

you first post as i have pointed out proves this, it has nothing to do with Osama or yayha snow

"you people are ridiculous ur trying to prove islam is wrong and ur saying muslims hate jews and cristans but its wrong.Cristans and jews are the haters ,and saying muslims are brain dead but really because they are the ones that hate muslims u people are wasting ur own time."

Rukiah Ali said...

Iknow i'm trying to make it look fair and normal. You people don't get it. I was trying to prove Islam is not a religon of fighting and war , it's the religon of peace. It is obvious you don't understand it and belive it makes no sense. Osama dose not do that many dabates because it can be time wasteful when he could do more important things.

Rukiah Ali said...

Osama only done a few dabates because he has better things to do.