Friday, December 21, 2012

Br. Imran & Samuel Green Debate Video

Back in July I had a debate with Br. Imran.
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012/06/sydney-debate-july-7.html

I have had a number of people contact me about the recent video of this debate that has appeared on Youtube.

http://youtu.be/WLySrGMt-4M
http://youtu.be/AvTNU5KQP8I

Here is an update.

The original plan I had with IREA Australia was the video would be made in accordance with our signed agreement. This involved including all PowerPoint presentations and not removing or adding any of the speakers words. The video was to be a historical record of what happened on the night. When the video/DVD became available there would be a period before it went on Youtube to allow for DVD sales. I was happy with all of this.

However it seems that IREF India have edited the video and done it in a way that is clearly not inline with the debate agreement. None of my slides were included and since they were an integral part of my presentation my whole presentation has been gutted. Br. Imran who had no slides on the night has had many slides added in. There are "commentary" slides aimed at me and an extended section of Ahmed Deedat preaching which has been added in.

I was deeply troubled when I saw this video and have lost sleep from worry.

I have been in touch with IREA Australia and I believe that they have been caught out by these events as well. As far as I know they were planning to sell the DVD first before it went to Youtube. I have expressed my concern to IREA Australia and am waiting for their representative to return from India so that we can discuss this matter.

I believe that there has been miscommunication between IREF India and IREA Australia but I have full confidence that IREA Australia intends to abide by the debate agreement. This is why I have not done anything publicly yet. I understand that in a large organisation like IREA things may not always go according to plan and so this is why I am giving IREA some time to sort out the matter, which I believe they will.

To my Christian friends I ask that you wait with me to see what happens. Please do not make any accusations yet though you can certainly leave comments on the Youtube videos. I believe that God has sent this moment so that both Christian and Muslim debating communities can grow though it. I am prepared to wait for one month for the matter to be resolved.

Your brother in Christ Samuel

33 comments:

simple_truth said...

Hi, Samuel.

I agree with you. Let's wait to see what responses we get before making a final judgment. I hope that they do get things right.

Do you take your own camera/video recorder as a backup? If not, that would be good advice. You can also take someone with you to record it. Unfortunately, I don't trust Muslims in general when it comes to honesty and accurate reporting since they are generally taught to defend Islam, which means that honesty, integrity, etc. can take a back seat. I know that such statements are unfair to all Muslims, but that is the state of affairs at the present.

Zack_Tiang said...

You are incredibly patient and kind, bro. Samuel. Incredibly so.

Craig said...

How can I view your recent debate on the preservation of the quran and bible with abdullah kunde?

Aleida marte said...

non of the youtube videos of your debate with imran allows any christian comments it seems that the person who owns the youtube account on the video is erasing all the critics of the muslims and only allows muslims to critics br. green because they want to make it seem that br. green lost the debate

george said...

Mr Samuel...

This Imran is a cunning Guy. Last time when he debated with Jerry Thomas (www.sakshitimes.net, he did the same by editing the entire debate DVD..So being an Indian i wont expect anything new from him.

Here's the lesson..be wise next time handling Muslims, especially from India!

Naren said...

Dear Bro. Samuel,

I wrote to you that these Muslims are no good and this was expected from them. Brother, I bet a thousand dollars that IREA will not oblige in the least… What we feel happening is that IREA will say that this is all they have and they have not recorded the slides with their camera… they will reject all your claims of video doctoring and then challenge you to prove them wrong.

I believe the best way out is to download this video, insert your powerpoint slides… delete the Ahmed Deedat junk and then upload it again.

In Christ


Naren

Samuel Green said...

simple_truth

Thanks. Yes, I have my own cameras and I have made a recording. The problem that I have is that I have to train people how to use the cameras in every new location that I go to and this means the result varies.

Craig
Give me a few weeks and I will have the preservation of the Bible and Qur'an online. It is all recorded. I just have 7 video jobs to finish for the end of the year.

Aleida marte
I will pass on your comments to IREA

Craig said...

Ok thank you samuel god bless u

Tom said...

Bro.Green I truely wish I can develop your Grace filled nature!

Prasanna said...

Brother Samuel,

In this matter, while you are following Jesus in your honesty, Imran is following Muhammad and Quranic Allah the best deceivers!

aaron said...

@Aleida marte
happened to me to of comments section censored

Radical Moderate said...

@Samuel Green

God bless you on the front line.

I found this comment on the youtube page most telling

"Ali bavazir 1 week ago
Alhumdulilah..MY TEACHER..bashes samuel green without mercy....Atlast FALSEHOOD perished..............Takbeer "ALLAH HU AKBER ALLAH HU AKBER ALLAH HU AKBER"


So IREA has a singed written agreement that your slides will be shown, and there will be no editing.

They produce a video that does not have your slides, has editing, adds slides to the Muslim position, and even gives a extended presentation by a man who is dead and buried.

J.J.A. said...

@ Samuel Green

I just finished watching the entire video and I heard Imran say that there were four cameras filming the debate (See 2:49:12). There were two cameramen in front of the stage filming each speaker and another two on either side of the stage filming the audience. If IREA Australia agreed to film your powerpoint presentation, then they obviously failed to honor your signed agreement. At this point, I seriously doubt that anything can or will be done by IREA Australia to honor your agreement.

aaron said...

@naren
no need to worry under Australian contract law this is classified as a breach of contract.

By doing such intentions they could technically be liable to damages if any or specific performance for the breach in worst case scenario. No lawyer will be able to win this one

aaron said...

can someone who watched what those commentaries directed at same was? i didn;t get to watch whole video yet even though i found it weeks earlier due to other matters i had to resolve

Aleida marte said...

if christian comments were allowed on the youtube video we would probably show muslims how pathetic imran's attacks were i saw 1 hour and 30 mins of and it and green called imran's lies out in every point he made. the guy seems like a fraud but can easly be debunked plus he doesnt show any proof that muhammads quran is true at all

Radical Moderate said...

Brother Green, I have only watched parts of the debate. I can see why the Muslims would edited it in such away. So far from what I have seen this is one of your best debates.

The part where the Muslims gives you a Quran and challenges you to find the name of Mohammed in 10:94 was classic. He just kept making error after error.

aaron said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
aaron said...

How do we identify if the whole video is complete

aaron said...

after watching Most of the video

here is what i picked up

1. Imran made this mistake in 2:32:00 it translations may use different wordings but definitely not the greek manuscripts. if the original language had a issue then Imran shot himself in the foot

2.Accusing someone of not knowing arabic and can;t speak about the quran is also a logical fallacy because one can not fundamentally learn a language if it can not be translated which means Imran shoots himself again because he doesn;t know arabic because he was not born in it and thus cannot fundamentally learn it

3.If Imran was to apply the same standards that he applied to on gospel of mark 1:1 that means. the message of muhummed requiring to pray 5 times a day goes in the bin. Want to know why? because haddiths also contain messages from muhummed but they were told by other people. apply the same standards and we see Imran commit logical fallacy of tu qou que.

anyone cares to add to the list?

aaron said...

@Aleida marte
second video link allows comments, I already made some red herrings and tu qou que fallacy used by Imran

Repnetz said...

I just saw some of the boot leg video on Youtube. Even with all the editing the muslims did to discredit you Samuel, you represented Christ with anointing. I cant wait to see the official release on the internet and the comments not being screened. Im sure the Muslims will be rude and want your head like the text thugs they become when light shines on them. God Bless you Samuel and keep up Gods work.

Radical Moderate said...

@Brother Samuel Green

After watching more of the debate I have to say again this is one of your best debates. You glorified God sir with or with out your PPP. If anything the absence of them really highlight the weakness of your Muslim opponents position.

I have to say your response to the first question by a Muslim on EZ 23 was just brilliant.

And your response to the woman "Christians and Jews are not looking for the real book" brilliant.

Your Muslims opponents answer to the Arab Christian's question on the two variant readings from the Warsh and the Uthman "Mushaf"
really destroyed most of the Muslim argument.

The Muslim through out the debate says that no two manuscripts agree with each other. Then he goes to the NT translations to defend his position that the all readings of the Qurans are the same.

To bad their wasn't a follow up.

aaron said...

@ALL

Second link allows comments post it while you can

Adam said...

"IREA India and IREA Australia" its IREF.

aaron said...

We should make a video on this on our post debate commentary i suggest. since muslims haven;t got the manners to stop the censorship in some of the debate video and rarely any christian has commented on them yet

Lokenath said...

You made the mistake of debating a showman. Debate is for people who read and have knowledge. The first sign of knowledge is humility. Imran lacks it thoroughly.

simple_truth said...

Lokenath said...

You made the mistake of debating a showman. Debate is for people who read and have knowledge. The first sign of knowledge is humility. Imran lacks it thoroughly.

======================

I have to agree with you. This seemed more like a lecture motivated by ridicule than an actual debate by Imran. This is inferred by the way that the Muslims in the audience continually lauded him. Both fed off of each other in a self gratifying manner.

Credibility or truth doesn't seem like a goal for either. Of course, his audience seemed just as ignorant as his presentation. Maybe both have a common level--mediocrity.

I have to say that I was quite drawn back by the lame material Imran used. By today's standard, who actually uses the Q documents and JEDP theories as proof of a falsified Bible, when they are just that--theories?

simple_truth said...

Is there any way to reverse the chronology of comments on the youtube page? I would rather for the first comments to be read first so that I can follow the discussion properly. I don't want to have to continually click to get to the first comments and read from bottom upwards. It is very annoying.

simple_truth said...

Never mind, the last comment.

Jimmy Plant said...

Never trust a "true Muslim". Their religion is based on deception, and that is how they make people fall for it. I guess Imraan was really embarassed by his own performance. All he could do was mock and ridicule. He couldnt do anything to prove his book right.

It would have been nice if they showed the look on Imraan's face when Samuel opened up the Koran that Imraan "gifted" him, and read out Mohammad's name from it!!

Shad saleem said...

if power point presentations are not included then why can't you upload full debate video WITH 'power point presentations'

aaron said...

@ Shad
we have and it shows IREF removing part of rebuttals and changing audience responses and also adding in other stuff