Sunday, October 14, 2012

10,000 Muslims Demand Google Enforce Sharia . . . in London

Once again, I'm totally confused. Muslims keep telling me that there's no conflict between Sharia and Western values, but Muslims keep demanding that Sharia blasphemy laws replace basic freedoms. If I didn't know better (which I don't), I'd think that Sharia is utterly incompatible with Western values, and that Muslims who say otherwise are attempting to deceive ignorant Westerners.


LONDON--A protest by 10,000 Muslims outside the offices of Google in London today is just the first in an orchestrated attempt to force the company to remove an anti-Islamic film from website YouTube in Britain.

Thousands had travelled from as far afield as Glasgow to take part in the demonstration, ahead of a planned million-strong march in Hyde Park in coming weeks.

Anger over 'The Innocence of Muslims', an American-produced film which insults the Prophet Mohammad and demeans Muslims, according to protesters, remains available to watch on the website YouTube, a subsidiary of Google.

Organiser Masoud Alam said: "Our next protest will be at the offices of Google and YouTube across the world. We are looking to ban this film.

"This is not freedom of expression, there is a limit for that. This insult of the Prophet will not be allowed." (Continue Reading.)

52 comments:

tiwas said...

Same here in Malaysia.

By the way, nice new look.

aaron said...

the rich irony of the signs should be Google supporting terrorism. its your radical clerics that do

Radical Moderate said...

Yes and if Google does now bow to their demands, they will boycott youtube, and not use it to spread their lies, nor will they use youtube to post their beheading video's, or show Muslims rioting, looting, blowing things up and killing in the name of Allah.

Joe Daniels said...

10,000 people don't just happen to assemble from all over the country - how long have the authorities known this was going to happen?

abele derer said...

Do you have any articles where you prove that the Bible is a divine book? [Do you believe that it is a divine book? If not, why are you convinced that it correctly QUOTES the opinions of Jesus regarding the existence of the afterlife?]

abele derer said...

Why do you believe that the Bible is a divine book?

Nothin'ButTheTruth said...

@ Abele Derer,
what are you? muslim or atheist?
So that we can answer you well.

andy bell said...

Okay, what happened to the blog and what did you do with the crude, minimalist, boring graphics of the regular answering muslims site?

Deleting said...

abele derer said...
"Why do you believe that the Bible is a divine book?"

Why don't you? If your muslim the Koran says it is divine. Surah 6:34 says no one can corrupt Allah's word. The torah and injeel are both 'divine' according to the bible.
But...I'm not muslim.
I believe the bible to be divine because it took over 1500 years to write with over 40 different authors and amazingly, the narrative of YHWH's words is consist.
Also there are also over 5700 greek manuscripts all dating before the council of nicea, some of them up to 35 years after the closing of the new testament.
Also fulfillment of prophecy. If any of the prophecies failed than they couldn't be regarded as cannon of scripture but they are all either fulfilled or waiting to be fulfilled. The Koran doesn't do that.
However, all of this doesn't negate the fact that the whole bible is about Jesus.

Think about it, lots of homeless people offend people everyday in word and deeds, have rocks hurdled at them although few if any have ever had people try to push them off cliffs in their hometown.

But only one is remembered.
Forget about everything else, there is no way an itinerant preacher from Judea could be could attain this level of notoriety and worship if in fact he wasn't God.

aaron said...

you know what should be done as a response. maybe have a protest outside a mosque or maybe the pakistan or iranian embassy. like better treatment for minorities and freedom to minorities in muslim countries

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Deleting

"Why don't you? If your muslim the Koran says it is divine. Surah 6:34 says no one can corrupt Allah's word. The torah and injeel are both 'divine' according to the bible."

You are attacking a strawman. The Injeel or gospel being referred to is the gospel given to Jesus (pbuh) by Allah (swt), not gospels written decades after. So when the verse says none can change Allah's words, it means the Injeel, Torah, Quran that Allah (swt) revealed to Esa (pbuh), Musa (pbuh), and Muhammad (pbuh). Also, I'm sure you are well aware of the contradictions between the the books in the New Testament (Conflicting narrative accounts if Jesus(pbuh) as pointed out by Bart Ehrman), Jesus (pbuh) implicitly denying he is God in the Bible ( Mark 13:32, John 17:3), The failed prophecies in the Bible (Mathew 24:30-35). I do want to point out however, unlike a lot of muslims I do believe that Jesus (pbuh) in the Bible you have today does claim to be God, However, he also denies he is God. Like it or not there is definitely a contradiction of who Jesus (pbuh) is in the bible which is one of the many reasons I do not hold the Bible (In its entirety) to be the word of God.

David Wood said...

Samatar,

Where is this Injil that was given to Jesus? The Qur'an commands Christians to judge by it (5:47) and says that we read about Muhammad in it (7:157). So where is it? Can you point me to it? Is it available online somewhere?

reconnaissance said...

Samatar,

Where's the evidence?

How do you know your god gave Jesus a different set of gospels?

How about the silly claim in your book that says Mary is part of the trinity or that we believe she is a god?

Foolster41 said...

@Samatar: Thuis is the same objection I've given before and you havn't answered. The scripts of the bible existed BEFORE mohammad was even born (starting from around 2nd century AD) so unless Christians are time travelers who went back from after Mohammad's time and changed the gospel, the claim that Christianity is somehow different than from Mohammad's time, and thus Islam (since it claims Jesus as a prophet of Islam) makes no sense.

reconnaissance said...

Samatar,

Where did Jesus deny that he was God?

If you are referring to when Jesus said only God is good alone, do keep in mind that Jesus said he is the good shepherd. But think about this way Samatar if God is good alone then that means you are evil. Do these things ever cross a Muslims mind?

Samatar do you believe that man is inherently good?

aaron said...

@samatar one question us when mohummed was in doubt go ask people of the book. what books did the christians and jews have ? apparently the books you said written "decades later" were what they had

Deleting said...

Samatar.
1 that comment was for abele. Not you.
Second, if you can't help but respond to a comment not made to you, then perhaps you should read it more carefully. There are over 5700 manuscripts. These were HANDCOPIED from other manuscripts, some surviving and some being burned by the Romans or other pagans during PERSECUTION of Christians so there'd be NO existing original manuscripts. The oldest we have is P52 dating from 125AD. The New Testament was completed somewhere around 85AD or 90AD

Deleting said...

Samatar also said. "The failed prophecies in the Bible (Mathew 24:30-35)."
My friend, this hasn't happened yet. Just because it has not happened yet doesn't make it a failed prophecy. Maybe if you actually read it you would not post such things.
Ironically, earlier on in the same chapter it does contain a fulfilled prophecy...false prophets shall arise and deceive many....

Nothin'ButTheTruth said...

@ Samatar,
I quote you, "...Jesus (pbuh) IMPLICITLY DENYING HE IS GOD in the Bible ( Mark 13:32, John 17:3), The failed prophecies in the Bible (Mathew 24:30-35). I do want to point out however, unlike a lot of muslims I DO BELIEVE THAT JESUS (pbuh) in the Bible you have today DOES CLAIM TO BE GOD..."

hahahahahahaha Please pay attention to the words I capitalized!
What a contradiction! LOL are you for real?
In one hand you say Jesus denied to be God, in another you agree that He claimed to be God.
Stop embarrassing yourself dude.

Nothin'ButTheTruth said...

@ Samatar,
To explain your supposedly contradiction in the Bible.

Mark 13:32 “But as for that day or hour no one knows it – neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son41 – except the Father.

Because of this you supposedly think that Jesus didn't know the end.
I don't like writting a long article so I just want to ask you a question:

Revelation 19:12 says that Jesus has a name that NO MAN knew.

Does this according to you, the Father doesn't know as well?

Do notice what Jesus said in Mark 13:32, ...NO MAN knows...
We constantly tell you Muslims, Jesus was 100% God and 100% MAN. So it's the man Jesus that does not know, not the God Jesus.

Nothin'ButTheTruth said...

@ Samatar,

You said, the Bible has contradiction, it does IF ONLY you pick and choose the passages you want out of context. But the truth is it has no contradiction at all.

So what you say about the contradiction in the quran?

1.Was the universe created in:

-Six Days? Quran 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, 25:59
-Eight Days? Quran 41: 9-12
-Or Instantly? Quran 2:117

2.Was the earth created before the heaven? Quran 2:29, 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, 25:59, 41: 9-12.

-OR was the heaven before the earth? Quran 79:28-30

•OR were the heaven and the earth JOINED TOGETHER as one unit of creation and ALLAH SEPARATED THEM? Quran 21:30.

-OR were the heaven and the earth SEPARATED and ALLAH UNIFIED THEM? Quran 41:11.

I can go on and on, so please explain those for now?

Deleting said...

Excellent point foolster and it reminded me of something else. The writings of the patriarchs like irenuis ignatius and polycarp come from late first century and early second century and they confirm the gospels and epistles. I think polycarp was a disciple of apostle John. However these men quote HEAVILY from the New Testament writings, vouching that the gospels are indeed what the injeel was really speaking of Christ deity and the crucifixion and forgiveness of sons by repentance and faith.
Samatar you can have that too, you just need to turn from Islam and your sins (start with the Ten Commandments and realize you've broken every one of them) and confess Jesus as God and that he took on God's wrath and judgment against sin for YOU. That his righteous life lived is credited to you and his spirit will change your heart so you can turn from sin, be forgiven when you sin and helped not to sin again and be in communion with GOD.
Mohammed can't commune with you. He's dead. All the sahaba are dead too. Every people who takes shahada is guaranteed spiritual death because in taking shahada your violating the first commandment. Second you're telling God you want him to judge you on your own works... He won't judge the good. He'll judge the bad (all your lies, your lust, the things you covet, anything you've taken without their permission with no intent of returning from someone else regardless of its value, the number of times you take his name and use it as a swear word)
And consider this samatar. If you're doing good feeds for the express purpose of getting on God's good side so he'll 'owe' you and be in your debt is also sin because you've got bad motives. Your not doing it because you love God. Your doing it cause you love yourself. That's so too. God loves you samatar but make no mistake...God does not need you. He will not be placed in your debt for anything and will judge false piety.
Wow this was a long rant. Didn't mean to go all out like this.
Anyone out there, Samatar or otherwise, who wants to understand more of what I talked about, go to YouTube and look up these references:
Voddie baucham why I believe the bible.
Solidfoodmediadotcom RW Glenn pretty much anything there is good.
May the grace of God be with you always.

. said...

Good luck to us getting answers from Samatar.

Samatar Mohamed said...

@nothin but truth

Let me further explain my point on Jesus (pbuh) not knowing the final hour. Correct me if I am wrong but if I say "The Father", it excludes "The son" regardless of whether it his divine nature. So when the verse says "ONLY" the Father, that excludes Jesus (pbuh) and The Holy spirit. If the verse said No one knows the final hour except The Holy Spirit, that immediately excludes Jesus (pbuh) and The Father. Unless you want to redefine The trinity by interchanging their names, there is no way to reconcile the verse. So it all comes down to this:

1. Are the three in the trinity separate persons. (if yes, next question).

2. When naming one person in the Trinity I.e. "The Father" does that exclude the other members in the Trinity or not.

If the answer is yes to both of these questions, then that means that the verse is saying "Only" The father knows the final hour, excluding Jesus (pbuh) and The Holy Spirit implying they are ignorant of the final hour.

Deleting said...

said said, "Good luck to us getting answers from Samatar"
Oh I'll get an answer....it will be an 'all over the place try to divert attention from the fact that evidence was provided and I messed up but I can't let these kafirs know it (by the way Samatar, we already know it)' type of response..
Or he'll quote a sahih hadith because somehow that will magically turn us all into muslims and he won't have to answer for the stupid things he said.
It's never worked before. As a matter of fact the last time he did it it was shown that Jesus said it first and Mohammad ripped it off from him.
But hey, he'll try.

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Deleting

"My friend, this hasn't happened yet. Just because it has not happened yet doesn't make it a failed prophecy."

Umm hello, did you read the verses. Look at verse 35:

"Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

The generation he was speaking to has passed and it has not happened yet. Are you telling me that Jesus (pbuh)'s generation still exists today, or that a generation exceeds 2000 years. Let me break it down.

1. Jesus (pbuh) listed some supposed events that would happen.

2. He said that his generation will not pass away until these things happen.

3. His generation has passed away.

4. And his prophecy did not come to pass.

5. Therefore, Concluding that this is a failed prophecy.

David M said...

David Wood. I am listening to your debate along side Sam and i wanted to ask because this is how T envision god more detailed and understandable. I see the trinity like Water, water can be gas, solid, and liquid but its all Water.

. said...

Samatar you have some nerves. You come here and attack the bible while making believe that the koran is flawless.

Deleting said...

Samatar he was taking about the generation when he'd come back. Not the generation alive back then.
Once again YOU need to read it properly and in context. No more imitating your dead prophet.

Locrian said...

Samatar Mohamed,
If you're truely troubled by this passage and not just picking this passage as a form of "gotcha", then why havent you looked up Mat 24:34 on google? You wouldn't allow us to take a verse from the Quran, and not know it's back ground, or why it was said. There is a reason there are 4 synoptic gosples. It's so you can study and get a better view of the situation as a "whole".

Looking up Mat 24:34 in Google will start producing many addressing the problem and you have no need for a "gotcha" verse. Or you can look up "The Olivet Discourse". It's best to look for something that shows all 3 chapters side by side. Here you'll see there were 3 questions asked, and there are a few ways this can be addressed without any change in theology. Now this isn't to say you will accept these answers, but that's the nature of looking at Gods word through the lens of the Quran.

But the point is, if you're really concerned about these questions do some Bible study and quit using the same argument asked by Atheist for hundreds of years that has been replied to. I have my feeling you don't care about the answer, but just found this dilemma on say answering -Christianity or some other completely non scholarly work.

Deleting said...

Samatar, the context given for 'this generation' is in verse 29 when it says 'in those days,,,'
Once again READ

Tom said...

@Samatar Mohamed :

As david asked :
"Where is this Injil that was given to Jesus?"
In fact, muslims say the "original" is the "Injil of Jesus" is lost/burnt/destroyed etc and this my fellow christians is not conjecture on the part of muslims!

Question : Why did the koran not inform the 'faithful', that the "Injil of Jesus", is no longer around & what they have now the Injil of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John are the corrupted version! ( And they surely get pretty turned on about this many version argument)

muhammad when to the Jews & said he is a prophet they said u are kidding me.. not based on our criteria! & we are awaiting a Jewish Messiah.. .. Then he went to the Christians an told them he is a prophet, " they said uhhh, sorry mate, we are not expecting another prophet, we are done ...But maybe you go & inform the arabs that you are a "prophet", they will be receptive!

The Berean Search said...

Samatar,

First I want to commend you for showing enough fairness with the biblical text to recognize that the New Testament teaches the Deity of Christ. Many Muslims do not show even that much fairness. As for your assertion that it also teaches the "non deity" of Christ, this is where you make the error of bringing your Islamic worldview and trying to force it on the Bible. The New Testament is not a Unitarian document. If you presuppose Unitarianism you will always wrongly conclude exactly what you have concluded. You look at the text, and in your mind Monotheism = Unitarianism in an absolute mathematical sense. Therefore, anything that is not Unitarian is not God. False presupposition. The text presents a Trinitarian theology, therefore, a Trinitarian description of Father, Son, and Spirit.

As for your question regarding Mark 13:32, you simply need to be fair in allowing the text to define it's own terminology and apply the same standard to the whole text. This verse does not teach that Christ was ignorant of something. It is an idiom in which "to know" means "to make known". This can also be seen in Deut. 13:3 and Gen. 22:12.

If your assertion were so, then Deuteronomy 13:3 would teach that The Lord God (YHWH, the supreme Being whom Islam claims is the God you worship) was ignorant of something and increased in knowledge. The text says, "For the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul." This is the God of Moses (YHWH) speaking in this verse. Obviously, as a Muslim, you would never accept that the God of Moses is ignorant of anything or can increase in knowledge. The text is not saying that He does. "To know whether you love the LORD your God" is an idiom that means "to make known" or "to reveal".

The same can be seen in Genesis 22:12. In it, the God of Abraham says to Abraham, "He said, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me.”" Again, the God of Abraham was not ignorant of Abraham's fear of God, nor did He increase in knowledge after this event. The phrase "now I know" means "now I have made known" or "now I have revealed". Similarly when Mark 13:32 says, "But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.", it is saying that of the day or the hour no one makes known, no one reveals it except the Father.

This is handling the text fairly and letting it define it's own meaning, as well as taking into consideration it's linguistic background. I encourage you to let the text define the text and handle the word of God fairly if you are sincere.

The Berean Search said...

Samatar,

""Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

The generation he was speaking to has passed and it has not happened yet. Are you telling me that Jesus (pbuh)'s generation still exists today, or that a generation exceeds 2000 years. Let me break it down."


You are making the incorrect assumption that Jesus was saying "before the people who are living now die". He wasn't saying this.

See here

..and I will quote a relevant portion of the link:

"In relation to Matthew 24:34, there are three possible responses. First, the term "generation" is the Greek geneous, a synonym of genes which can mean race. Hence, the race of Jews whom Jesus was addressing would not pass away until the culmination of the age. Secondly, Jesus may not have been referring to his generation per se, but the generation that would witness the signs that Christ predicted would occur before his Second Coming. (cf. Mat. 24:15-33)

Thirdly, Christ may not have even been referring to his Second Coming. Rather, Christ could have been referring to his coming in judgment against Jerusalem where he had predicted the temple and the people would all be destroyed."


Here is another response to your objection.

Now I will mention something related to world view of the text that will help your understanding of the broader meaning.

You quoted, as your objection, the passage Matt. 24:30-35 and you are specifically objecting to verse 34. I suggest you read the next verse:

34Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

The phrase, "heaven and earth will pass away", speaks to the Hebraic understanding of the 'olam ha-ba, "the age to come", "the world to come", "the end of the age", etc. It's the teaching that the current imperfect world will pass away and be remade into a new perfect world. This is found prophetically in both the Old Testament, and the New Testament. The book of Revelation deals with the 1,000 year reign of the Messiah on earth over a remade and perfected world, that exists after "heaven and earth pass away", i.e. are remade and perfected.

Samatar, I don't blame you for not having an understanding of this concept. It is not a simple issue. However, now that someone has briefly pointed you in the right direction the onus is on you to be sincere and acquire an understanding of the text and the world view of it's authors and intended audience. I sincerely hope you will not cling to superficial objections such as these.

minoria said...

Hello Samatar:

Here is my answer to your question about MATT 24:34.

It takes all the skeptics'objections into consideration,like those of JOHN LOFTUS(atheist,ex-Christian) who even wrote an ENTIRE CHAPTER on it all.

The article is in FRENCH but you can COPY-PASTE to GOOGLE TRANSLATE to read it:

http://translate.google.com/

ABOUT THE ARTICLE
It has links to 4 OTHER articles that ELABORATE.

Here is the the article:

"Did the Historical Jesus say a False Prophecy about his Second Coming?"

http://www.avraidire.com/2012/07/le-jesus-historique-a-t-il-dit-une-fausse-prophetie-sur-la-date-de-sa-seconde-venue/

The Berean Search said...

...also Samatar I looking forward to your response to David's question regarding Surah (5:47)and (7:157), and I am a bit perplexed as to what all your questions have to do with the protest by Muslims in London to enforce Sharia.

Samatar, do you agree that Muslims should be trying to make Western nations submit to aspects of Sharia? Do you support my right to free speech, even if you find my speech offensive?

Ashi Lederer said...

"I believe the bible to be divine because it took over 1500 years to write with over 40 different authors and amazingly, the narrative of YHWH's words is consist.
Also there are also over 5700 greek manuscripts all dating before the council of nicea, some of them up to 35 years after the closing of the new testament.
Also fulfillment of prophecy."

I don't understand. Why is consistency any evidence that a book is divine, and how do you define consistency? Furthermore, the fact that there are many documents doesn't prove that it is a DIVINE book (at most, it proves that it was written near the time of Jesus). And, even if Jesus's prophecies or predictions came true, that doesn't prove that THE ENTIRE BIBLE (even parts that don't quote Jesus or the early prophets) was written or inspired by God. So why do you believe that the Bible is from God?

Deleting said...

Ashi said, "I don't understand. Why is consistency any evidence that a book is divine, and how do you define consistency?
My ans:
The 40 authors I referenced lived over a time frame of 1500 years. Isaiah never met Ezekiel face to face. They lived over 100 years apart and had ministries in different countries, yet when they are quoting the word of God, the narrative is consistent in tone, pattern of speech, revelation of prophecy in how it is given.

Sorry for the long answer, but this is how I would define consistency. Men who never met and yet reveal accurate information of future events long before they happen.

Furthermore, the fact that there are many documents doesn't prove that it is a DIVINE book (at most, it proves that it was written near the time of Jesus).
My ans: Traditionally the reliability of ancient text hinge on the amount of manuscripts are available, how close they match in context and how close they were to the events being talked about.
I understand there are far fewer documents such as Julius Caesar's Gallian Wars (only one, maybe two) and the closest date to it is 1000 years after the event.
The new testament-5700 documents or fragments of documents.

Furthermore, the prophecies given in the new testament have either been fulfilled or are being fulfilled. If that's not divine, Sir, then please tell me what is. Having an epileptic nomad rolling around in the sand 'mid-revelation'??? Really, because anyone who did that in bible were kinda, sorta demon-possessed.



And, even if Jesus's prophecies or predictions came true, that doesn't prove that THE ENTIRE BIBLE (even parts that don't quote Jesus or the early prophets) was written or inspired by God. So why do you believe that the Bible is from God?"

My ans: Not all the bible is inspired, you are correct sir in this regard. When a prophet questioned God or disobeyed him, you are absolutely right, those were not inspired of God. That was sinful man acting out.
When Paul asks Timothy in his second epistle to bring him his coat because he was freezing in jail and cold, that was not inspired of God.
But...it was somewhat inspiring of God to have it written down. The bible shows man in all his gory...the depraved, the proud, the ultra-religious, all of it.
It shows the true state of man in relation to a holy and just God. If you gonna have an accurate picture of this dynamic then you need to have the whole fleshed out picture. We all can see elements of ourselves in the actions of those in the bible. We all can.
It shows the need for a savior.

Deleting said...

I need to correct something. When I said, 'When a prophet questioned God or disobeyed him, you are absolutely right, those were not inspired of God. ' I meant the action. Not the revelation itself. Jonah disobeyed God of his own volition. That was not inspired. However God does use sinful men, not superheroes.

Cristo Te Ama said...

SAMATAR Why didn't you answer david's question? i will quote it because maybe you didn't see it:

David said:

"Samatar,

Where is this Injil that was given to Jesus? The Qur'an commands Christians to judge by it (5:47) and says that we read about Muhammad in it (7:157). So where is it? Can you point me to it? Is it available online somewhere?"


Samatar why you pick the questions you "can" give some kind of "answer" and dismiss the real questions, like Davids, if the real Torah and inyil existed in the time of Muhammad so Allah could say Surah 5:47, that would mean that allah simply said "the hell with the Torah and Inyil, i don't care they are my pure words too, i will just protect the Quran (at least one recitation the others i will let Uthman burn them all), because i love deceiving people and send them to hell" that's quite a God you are following...

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Deleting

"Samatar you can have that too, you just need to turn from Islam and your sins (start with the Ten Commandments and realize you've broken every one of them) and confess Jesus as God and that he took on God's wrath and judgment against sin for YOU. That his righteous life lived is credited to you and his spirit will change your heart so you can turn from sin, be forgiven when you sin and helped not to sin again and be in communion with GOD."

I do appreciate your concern for me because, I believe that you wish the best for me. The problem is I just cannot join or follow an ideology that I do not believe is true. I have examined the evidence for Christianity and it is not satisfactory by any means. The main reasons would be the trinity, the difference in message between deity in christ. Jesus (pbuh) in the bible at times would claim divinity, and at other times would deny it outright. Another issue I had with christianity is the conflict in narratives as to Jesus. There are many contradictions in the gospels and I cannot believe that God would inspire mistakes. There are many more reasons but these are a few reasons that I cannot accept Christianity to be the true religion of God. Regarding the verse on Jesus and the prophecy. I do admit that "this generation" can also mean the generation he was speaking about earlier but depending on how you read the passage it could have a different meaning. But back to my main point, there are just too many reasons to count as to why I cannot believe christianity to be the true religion and the bible to be fully inspired.

Foolster41 said...

@Samatar: What are these contradictions in the bible? I'd like to hear them.

Also, does this mean you cannot be a muslim as well, using the same logic since there are many contradictions in Islam?

Mohammad claimed the sun sets in a muddy pool, confused Mary and mariam, cliams that Mary is worshiped as part of trinity, and that Jews worship Ezra! There are MANY others. http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

Mot to mention the major contradiction of claiming Jesus as a prophet of Islam, but the records of his life and teachings from over 1,000 years before Mohammad was born contradicts much of what is taught in basic Islamic theology, thus the only way Jesus could really be a prophet of Islam is if the unuislamic version was thurroughly destroyed and all of the remaining followers who were preaching the "true" version were killed or convinced to convert to what is modern Christianity. Either that, or someone went back in time to around 2 AD and corrupted all of the records. Either seems incredibly unlikely (I think we'd hear about such a major purge, or the invention of time travel), so it is good to hear you are leaving Islam!

minoria said...

Hello Samatar,

You said the gospels contradict each other.I think you are talking about the resurrection accounts,here is the answer:

(You can translate by copying-pasting usingGoogle Translate)

http://translate.google.com/

http://www.avraidire.com/2010/12/est-ce-que-les-recits-de-la-resurrection-se-contredisent-irremediablement-2/

Now here is the best argument as to why the documentary evidence is that the historical Jesus actually said he was God,check it out:

http://www.avraidire.com/2012/07/reponse-a-largument-musulman-que-le-jesus-historiqueselon-levidence-documentairena-jamais-dit-etre-dieu/

Tiwas Tiwasok said...

@Samatar,

You gave some reasons for rejecting Christ, yet I fell like those are not your 'true' reasons.

You said you reject the Trinity, but what's wrong with the Trinity? It's not polytheism, it's consistent with the overall Biblical theology, and it gives explanatory power to a lot of philosophical questions regarding God.

You said that Jesus in the Bible claimed divinity and at other times denied his divinity. But, the example you gave (Mark 13:32, John 17:3) about him denying his divinity aren't so. All we need to do is read these verses in their proper context.

For example, John 17:3, if we actually read the whole chapter (John 17), it is a prayer by Jesus for his disciples, about his ministry when he became a human being, and in this chapter he even claimed equality with the Father (John 17:10-11). It's not a denial of Jesus divinity at all.

You also mention about the so-called conflicting narrative about Jesus, contradiction in the gospels etc., yet for me, by giving these objections, it seems like you are looking for excuses not to believe in Christ.

And I commend you for willing to concede that there is another explanation for the alleged failed prophecy from Jesus (Mathew 24:30-35).

Whatever your reasons are, I pray that you will one day accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.

bob said...

The 'Trinity' is simply an abbreviation for Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
They are like a team of three like-minded individuals working together in perfect harmony for the same end.
In this case, and since they have a common essence (love and light) or 'oneness' and the authority is shared, the team as a whole is called God, as per Genesis 1:26, 27

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image..." So God created man in his own image...

Foolster41 said...

@Samatar: Not sure if you're reading this, but Osama is once again spewing insults (bafoon, stupid), spewing rather hateful statements about people (being toilet paper for Jews, or somethign) at people who are mearly critisizing what he's saying) and spewing conspiracy theories (all evil, (or at least most) done in the name of Islam is the Mosad/CIA.) Now that I'v brought it to your attention, maybe you can admonish him to behave better?

coptic crusader said...

@ Samatar
Do you believe God has any limitations? Our God created us in His own image, but at the same time is unique. God is beyond our comprehension, he can do things beyond our wildest imagination but in the end he is who he is UNCHANGEABLE! imagine if u were able to fully comprehend God, u'd be on the same level. God is who is he tells us he is. In Islam the Koran is called kalimat Allah (the word of God). In Christianity God created the world by speaking his word, that word instead of becoming a book, took flesh and dwelt among us. Now imagine Samatar can u make ur words take flesh? I'm guessing u can't, but I bet u can put ur words in a book... Hmmm not so unique of Allah. So Samatar we've learned that we are created in God's image we have words just like he has and yup u guessed it we have a spirit just as God does. The difference my friend is mine is not holy and unlike him I can't send my spirit out of my body or have my spirit dwell in anyone else. Therefore Samatar, God unlike us can be 3 entities and be in 3 different places at once at yet be 1 in essence. What an amazing God I serve that he took flesh and became a mediator 4 me that I can be saved. He defeated sin, defeated death and triumphed over the devil. So Samatar you are right in a sense... There is no God but God... The Father the Son the Holy Spirit One God AMEN!

coptic crusader said...

@ Samatar
now to enlighten you a little about the so called contradictions, first I think we need to tackle the concept of original sin. a few things happened when Adam and Eve sinned, first thing was they were kicked out of paradise. second they were separated from God. Then they tasted death. That was their punishment there for being children of Adam and Eve we share the same fate. John 3:16 So God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so who so ever believes in him shall have not perish but have everlasting life. God himself came down to save us. taking flesh, as a human he was able 2 reconcile us with the father and through death he trampled death. Know we can return 2 paradise, have everlasting life, and can be reunited with God.
Know as far as the Gospels was contradicting 1 another, imagine witnessing a car accident with several other people. As you each give ur accounts to the police they will all be very different. Human nature tells us we all see things differently some things stand out more than others 2 different people . Imagine if the gospels were identical you would say it was collusion. The gospel writers shared their own experiences as they saw them. brother I hope this helps.

coptic crusader said...

By the way in the previous post i meant 2 say the trinity is 1 in nature as well as essence. Sorry 4 the mix up Samatar.

John Bob said...

Well safe to say Sammy won't be coming back

John Bob said...

Regarding our manuscript evidence, a fragment of the Gospel of Mark has been found. All evidence points to the 1st Century as early as 50 AD..

Every year we are finding more manuscripts and fragments...hmmm what is there for the quran. ?

Deleting said...

John bob said, 'Every year we are finding more manuscripts and fragments...hmmm what is there for the quran. ?'

Where indeed. Oh wait, now I remember...they're buried with Abu Bakr's soldiers during the apostate wars.
Or...one of the versions. Muhammad said Muslims should learn the Koran from 4 people, one of them being Ibn Masud. But...Ruthann had someone else compile it and they were uthman approved but not Muhammad approved.
I also heard somewhere that the uthman version was lost so this is like version four...
Then there's the Yemeni find...but that doesn't help Muslims either because certain parts were put under ultraviolet light, revealing the text had been re-written, making Allah sound so much better than the drunk Bedouin he usually sounds like.
Archaeology is fun, no?