Friday, December 16, 2011

Muslim Mob Burns Down Ethiopian Church (with Help from Police)

On November 29th, a mob of more than 500 Muslims torched a church in Ethiopia after police had destroyed the roof. The church, in the village of Qoto Baloso, Silte province, was burned down by Muslim students, accompanied by Muslim police officials. The students were shouting "Allahu Akbar!" ("god is greater") and "Jihad!"

More than 30 police officers were deployed to destroy the church, but in the face of protests from local Christians, they held back from demolishing the rest of the building.

In the end, Christians were left weeping.

65 comments:

Black said...

And Kim will say "burning of churches, student shouting Allahu akbar,police helping them etc etc re forbidden in Islam"

Nakdimon said...

DOGS!! Muhammad left us nothing but dogs. Thats what islam produces.

Usama said...

"Abdullah bin Omar narrated that the messenger of Allah said: 'I have been ordered to fight against people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammed is the messenger of Allah and until they perform the prayers and pay the zakat, and if they do so they will have gained protection from me for their lives and property, unless [they do acts that are punishable] in accordance with Islam, and their reckoning will be with Allah the Almighty.'" (al-Bukhari and Muslim, in an-Nawawi's "Forty Hadith" #8)

Arabic audio: http://www.alameenlibrary.com/audio/40Hadith/15nawawi08.mp3

INDONESIA-MAN said...

MY country INDONESIA ( Largest islamic democratic&secular nation in the world)has been considered as icon of ISLAMIC TOLERANCE

but in reality churches are very had to be built here, and even if it had been built, it faces the risk of law suit or being demolished by angry mob like in Ethiopia

Not only that, even the "ahmadiyyah" sect which regarded heretic are also banned here, if anybody dare to spread and establishing ahmadiyya they will be persecuted and even killed

Islam is a hate-mongering cult, just plain&simple

SGM said...

Dear Osama and Kim,

Please, please tell us. Why in such a peaceful religion like Islam, such horrible atrocities are committed day after day, week after week, month after month. Take any religion in the world other then Islam and you will not find such atrocities committed against other religions.

WHAT WENT WORNG WITH THE CLEAR MESSAGE OF ALLAH? With such a perfect example of Mohammad?

It seems like, the infidels are much better then majority, if not all, of the moslems in the world. They respect women’s rights, respect other beliefs, don’t mutilate human bodies, don’t rape their captive women etc, etc.

So, before you start calling names again, why don’t you both start telling all the Moslems in Moslem countries that they have got it all wrong. You should start a mission work.

D335 said...

@INDONESIA MAN

Go ahead brother, tell them about Indonesia.

Along with
-malaysian islamic discrimination,
-thai islamic separatists,
-philipine eastern alqaeda sect,
-egypt coptic persecution,
-ethiopia church burning,
-pakistan persecutions of the Christians,
-Iran strict islamic sharia,
-Iraq's Islamic sect violence,
-afganistan's taliban executions,
-syria's part of arab spring,
-saudi's islamic law with beheadings, omg...
also to mention muslims in Britain and US getting western treatment.

the news of religion of peace literally littered the frontpage.

"what a wonderful world"
louis armstrong

D335 - apa kabar?

PETE said...

Just like muslims said, this is what they means peace. They will find peace until they kill all non muslims. This is Islam, religions of peace..

Samatar Mohamed said...

"DOGS!! Muhammad left us nothing but dogs. Thats what islam produces."

Imagine what the atheists/muslims/others were thinking during the crusades, the slavery treatment of black people in America not too long ago, the KKK etc... Is this really the religion that tells one to love one another and all are equal in the eyes of God. Yet, they treat black men and women like they were much inferior in America (just look at the history) untill these days. Not to mention most people in America were Christians. Is this really a religion that believes that violence is wrong, but accept the killing of men, women, and children in the old testament with a simple response like it was back in the day, and these rules do not apply now. The muslims burn a church ( which by the way I am completely disgusted and ashamed of such a terrible actions commited by those muslims), while not to mention the burn the Quran that some christians endulge in. As Nakdimon would say if he was an atheist, "DOGS!!! Father, Son, and Holy Ghost left us nothing but dogs. Thats what christianity produces. Please stop judging a religion by some people's actions, or else you will have to also condemn your own.

kenmehms said...

Samatar you need to get your facts right.

Those things that you mentioned that Christians were supposed to have committed were done in disobedience to the the Bible. But what we are seeing the Muslims doing worldwide are in total obedience to the Quran Hadith etc.

In fact it was Christians who were instrumental in stopping slavery in the states and the UK (Wilberforce etc)

Whereas slavery is allowed in Islam and Muhammad himself kept slaves as has been shown several times on this site. But you conveniently choose to ignore the facts when faced with the truth.

In fact look at when slavery was abolished in the west compared to the Islamic countries. They did not do it until the late sixties as far as I can recall and they did that reluctantly. In fact there is slavery of black people still in Mauritania by Muslims (plenty of videos on YouTube that you can check out).

What about the slave revolts in Iraq?

The crusades were in response to the Muslim invasion of Christian lands.

Also did the crusades start before or after the Muslims conquered Spain?

And the main reason you don't have such a large population of black people in some of these Islamic countries compared to the USA Brazil etc is that the Muslims used to castrate their black male slaves.

The most tolerant countries in the world are the western majority Christian countries. Hence why millions of people from Muslim countries are desperate to live their.

I don't see a mad rush of western/Christians trying to get asylum in muslim countries.

And why is it that the muslim countries are at the bottom of the list when it comes to Science, Medicene, technology etc?

Why is it that the countries you refer to as Christian are so far ahead, plus the so called pagan countries like Japan China etc. why is it tha Israel is so far ahead of muslum countries when it comes to these.

And you claim that the Quran contains scientific miracles. Why are the Muslim countries not at the cutting edge of science etc

The excuse I get is that they are not following the teachings of the Quran properly, really? Then what about the Christian countries, Japan, China, Israel? They don't follow it at all.

And the so called 'Golden Age' of Islam.

Check out the facts. Even the Muslim sites and sources will testify they learnt most of it from the Ancient Greeks, Persians and Indians. Plus a lot of the prominent figures were Christians and Jews.

Let me know if you need proof, sources. I will provide. In fact I will provide you with Muslim sites that testify to this, so that way you won't accuse them of being biased.

But then I know your answer already. You will just say they are in fact Jewish. And they are to blame for everything!

Orange Mask said...

I'll save Kim the trouble,

"This has absolutely nothing to do with Islam".

Meanwhile, while the rest of us are in reality, we need to figure out how to propose a world wide ban on Islam. I don't want to be told that I am intolerant of other religions. True, I am Christian, but until Buddhists start burning down Ethiopian churches, and until Hindus fly planes into buildings killing 3,000 American's Islam will always only represent violent oppression and subjugation to me.

Usama said...

SGML

I don't know how Allah got it wrong. That's kind of what I want to know. How did Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn al-Qayyim, an-Nawawi, al-Qurtobi, al-Tabaree and others ALL get it wrong on jihad? They all said it was to kill the infidels and make them under Islamic rule.

You'll have to ask the Huffington Post. They apparently know Islam better than 1400 years of Islamic scholarship and thought, Muhammad himself, and Allah himself.

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Kenmehens

Thanks for that. But can you tell me where the quran and hadith tells muslims to burn down christian churches for pleasure. You won't find it because Islam does not teach that whatsoever. And yes, christians did stop slavery but you are forgetting that slavery was being done at the time of Jesus (pbuh), but he did not forbid the action at all. If he did, show me a verse. And we are taught in the authentic narrations to treat slaves like our own brothers by giving them our clothes, let them eat from our food, etc.... Now here is an important question I'll pose to you, do you believe that slavery is an alright practice or no? If you say no, then you will have to condemn the Old testament for allowing such a practice, but if you believe that slavery is a permitted practice as long as you treat them fairly, then you are acknowledging the Quran and still condemning the Old Testament (as it allows the beating of slaves. And if you believe that slavery is permitted in any circumstance, then you are just proving to me that you do not really care about equality if it does not fit your agenda (Bible).

Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]."

"All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered.” - New Testament (1 Timothy 6:1)

"A student is not greater than the teacher. A slave is not greater than the master.” - New Testament (Matthew 10:24)

Islam on Slavery

It was narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “They are your brothers whom Allaah has put under your authority, so if Allaah has put a person’s brother under his authority, let him feed him from what he eats and clothe him from what he wears, and let him not overburden him with work, and if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6050).

Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) manumitted a slave of his, then he picked up a stick or something from the ground and said: There is no more reward in it than the equivalent of this, but I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever slaps his slave or beats him, his expiation is to manumit him.” Narrated by Muslim (1657).

Deleting said...

Samatar (ignorantly) said to Nakdimon: "DOGS!!! Father, Son, and Holy Ghost left us nothing but dogs. Thats what christianity produces. Please stop judging a religion by some people's actions, or else you will have to also condemn your own.

Hey, cool bible passage Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ohhh! Look! Here it is again:
Col 3:11 Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
Oh, but wait Samatar, this is the most important: Luke 6:27-31 "27] "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. [29] If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. [30] Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. [31] Do to others as you would have them do to you. "

you remember that thing you said about discrimination and the crusade (when, OH WHEN MOHAMMADIANS are you EVER going to get off the rag on that one! It was almost 800 freakin' years ago!)
They weren't follow this passage in the bible. They weren't following ANY parts of the bible. Unlike you guys who do disown terrorists for no good reason because they are following the tenants of Islam, we christians CAN and DO disown these people who did these things in the name of christ and WE HAVE SCRIPTURAL BASIS FOR IT!!!
Get off your high horse Samatar. You religion sux and you know it.

Deleting said...

Why won't Samatar learn????
Seriously, why?
Okay here we go: Samatar(once again ignorantly) said, "And yes, christians did stop slavery but you are forgetting that slavery was being done at the time of Jesus (pbuh), but he did not forbid the action at all."

Jesus came to fulfill the role of a servant of God. He came to live the law perfectly and offer himself as a sacrifice for sin.
He was not here in a political role. That was your profit (intentional mispelling). Your profit was here to gain political power. It was a tightrope he walked all his life.
My prophet came to fulfil prophecy Luke 24:44 "He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
This verse is recorded after the CRUCIFIXION!!!!
Yes. It happened. He died for sinners, and before you go on a rip-roaring tear about tone, dude, you don't see a gun, bomb, bloodstained machete in my hand.

kenmehms said...

Response to samatar.


The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw.

slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race.

People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families.

In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings.

The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14).

The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11).

The Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery.

In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms.

This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death:

“Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8-10).

kenmehms said...

Continued.

What the Quran says about slavery:
 
4:36 "(Show) kindness unto parents, and unto near kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and unto the neighbour who is of kin (unto you) and the neighbour who is not of kin, and the fellow-traveller and the wayfarer and (the slaves) whom your right hands possess."
4:92 "It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood- money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave."

23:5-6 "And who guard their modesty - Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess."

24:31 "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves."

24:58 "O ye who believe! Let your slaves, and those of you who have not come to puberty, ask leave of you at three times (before they come into your presence)."

33:50 "O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war."

33:55 "It is no sin for them (thy wives) to converse freely) with their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or the sons of their sisters or of their own women, or their slaves."

kenmehms said...

Continued.

The Hadith and slavery:

Narrated Al-Ma'rur: At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names." The Prophet said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names You still have some characteristics of ignorance. Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.' "
Sahih Bukhari 1:2:29

Narrated Nafi: Ibn 'Umar said, "Allah's Apostle said, 'If one manumits his share of a jointly possessed slave, and can afford the price of the other shares according to the adequate price of the slave, the slave will be completely manumitted; otherwise he will be partially manumitted.' " (Aiyub, a sub-narrator is not sure whether the saying " ... otherwise he will be partially manumitted" was said by Nafi' or the Prophet.)
Sahih Bukhari 3:44:671

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "There is no Zakat either on a horse or a slave belonging to a Muslim"
Sahih Bukhari 2:24:542

Narrated Abu Huraira : The Prophet said,"There is no Zakat either on a slave or on a horse belonging to a Muslim.
Sahih Bukhari 2:24:543

kenmehms said...

Continued.

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle made it incumbent on all the slave or free Muslims, male or female, to pay one Sa' of dates or barley as Zakat-ul-Fitr.
Sahih Bukhari 2:25:580

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet prohibited the earnings of slave girls (through prostitution).
Sahih Bukhari 3:36:483

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ashari: The Prophet said, "He who has a slave-girl and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward; and any slave who observes Allah's right and his master's right will get a double reward."
Sahih Bukhari 3:46:723

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "A pious slave gets a double reward." Abu Huraira added: By Him in Whose Hands my soul is but for Jihad (i.e. holy battles), Hajj, and my duty to serve my mother, I would have loved to die as a slave.
Sahih Bukhari 3:46:724

Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "Everyone of you is a guardian and is responsible for his charges. The ruler who has authority over people, is a guardian and is responsible for them, a man is a guardian of his family and is responsible for them; a woman is a guardian of her husband's house and children and is responsible for them; a slave ('Abu) is a guardian of his master's property and is responsible for it; so all of you are guardians and are responsible for your charges."
Sahih Bukhari 3:46:730

Narrated Abdullah bin Zama: That he heard the Prophet delivering a sermon, and he mentioned the shecamel and the one who hamstrung it. Allah's Apostle recited:-- 'When, the most wicked man among them went forth (to hamstrung the she-camel).' (91.12.) Then he said, "A tough man whose equal was rare and who enjoyed the protection of his people, like Abi Zama went forth to (hamstrung) it." The Prophet then mentioned about the women (in his sermon). "It is not wise for anyone of you to lash his wife like a slave, for he might sleep with her the same evening." Then he advised them not to laugh when somebody breaks wind and said, "Why should anybody laugh at what he himself does?"
Sahih Bukhari 6:60:466

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zam'a: The Prophet said, "None of you should flog his wife as he flogs a slave and then have sexual intercourse with her in the last part of the day."
Sahih Bukhari 7:62:132

A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet). The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her (according to the version of al-Hasan). The version of Ibn AbusSari has: You people, flog her, or said: inflict hard punishment on him.
Abu Dawud 11:2126

Nakdimon said...

@ Samatar

Well I don’t think I have to respond anymore seeing that Kenmehms has already pointed out that

1. Had the Muslims not been on a sword wielding conquest in Christian territory, the Crusades wouldn’t have taken place.
2. The injustices and atrocities in the Crusades have been committed AGAINST the commandments of Jesus.
3. The injustices and atrocities that non-Muslims suffer at the hands of Muslims in Muslim ruled countries is in obedience with Muhammad’s teachings. It's nice that you claim Islamic values are great and you embrace a westernized version of it, but we all know that you will never migrate to either Saudi Arabia or another Muslim country. Islam there is much closer to the Islam in Muhammad's day than your westernized version of it.
4. The abolitionists of slavery in the Western world were foremost Christians, who argued BASED ON THE BIBLE that ALL MEN are created in the image of God and that no one has the right to rule over another man without (either) his consent and/or the assignment of God.


Atheists can say all they want, because they have no grounds for judging anyone as either immoral or doglike behavior. And even if people act like dogs, they still have no right to claim it is either right or wrong, since we all know that atheistic worldviews don’t allow for absolute moral values. All is subjective.

D335 said...

@ kenmehms

I still believe deuteronomy is law for contract workers and not slave.

1. How and why a slave can be freed BY THE LAW after 7 years, and not by the wish of their masters?
2. Treatment for slaves were rigorous and life-endangering. Why? their life are in the hand of their master. But as you read in Deuteronomy, the law does not let one servant to be broken, rape or forced beyond capability. Why? because the servant life is not unto the master's hand but unto God.

D335

D335 said...

@Kenhemms

one more thing. Remember Jacob? The first Israel?

He was a contract worker in a sense, in order to get married to his master's daughter (Laban's daughter, Rachel). He even get TWO daughters (I guess he completed 2nd tour of duty, since his first goal was Rachel but he was deceived with getting Leah).

Notice that Jacob work 7 years on his first duty, and another 7 years in his 2nd tour of duty. Meaning he works for 6 years but in the 7th year he must be released from his job. The Deuteronomic Code also extends the seventh-year manumission rule by instructing that Israelite slaves freed in this way should be given livestock, grain, and wine, as a parting gift.

Jacob is also nephew of Laban, clearly that shows family relation AND again not slavery.

Would a slave master let two of his daughter for Jacob the slave? or for Jacob the contract worker?

This must be strange terms of slavery for the muslims since they were taught different views regarding slavery while the western world still using the term "slave" for many indentured servant.

D335

Deleting said...

@D335
Jacob was before the Mosaic law. The seventh year stipulation wouldn't have applied to him.

search 4 truth said...

To all people responding to Samatar!

You will have to repeat these same statement over and over and he still will not accept reality. He can't. To do so would destroy his world. So save all of these responses so you can pull them up quickly when this topic comes up again.

Even when confronted with the facts Muslims will rarely accept them!

Hazakim1 said...

Samatar walked right into this one...here we have a thread where both "Ethiopians" and "slavery" are being discussed and, while he quoted Al Bukhari (to show the tollerance and kindness to slaves in Islam) Samatar forgot one of the most profound, reliable hadith which references both Ethiopians AND slavery.

Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian black slave whose head looks like a raisin." Sahih Bukhari 81:256

There you have it people. Even if your master is as LOW as a black Ethiopian raisin head, you should listen to him! Now THAT is much better than the New Testament's treatment of slavery by far!!!

Hazakim1 said...

Deleting said "Jacob was before the Mosaic law. The seventh year stipulation wouldn't have applied to him."

Jewish tradition states that the patriarchs indeed understood and followed Torah to the degree that was revelaed to them. I believe that Jacob's 7 year "contract" was in fact related to the later Mosaic law.

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Hazakim

"Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian black slave whose head looks like a raisin." Sahih Bukhari 81:256."

You gave me a good laugh with that one. Read the hadith again. The prophet (pbuh) told them to OBEY the men even if he is an ethiopian black slave. He did not say, disobey them and treat him like he is inferior, rather to listen to them, why, because they are human also. Had the prophet (pbuh) told them not to listen to men like that, then trust me, I would be the first to leave Islam, seeing as I am an African black man who would not dare to follow a religion that leaves me as an inferior or second rate to white men. And if Muhammad (pbuh) truly was a racist to black men, he would not have said what he said in his farewell speech.

"All mankind is from *Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
Remember, one day you will appear before God and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone."

See the final message that the prophet (pbuh) gave his people . He said that black and white men were equal about 14 centuries ago. The so called westernized christian country U.S.A did not give these rights until very recently. Next time you bring a verse, please don't shoot yourself in the foot while doing it.

Hazakim1 said...

Samatar, so as a black man who is in submission to Rasool Allah, would you concur that you, and your black brothers, have heads that look like wrinkled, crusty, dried up, dark raisins?

G.J. Rancourt said...

Please Note:
it is confusing to translate Allahu Akbar as "god is greater" for Allah is NOT God. These are two gods with very different and distinct characters. One is LOVE and the Other HATE!

search 4 truth said...

@ Samatar

You dont even get the point of what he was saying by pointing to this hadith.

By Mohamed presenting the example of the Ethiopian slave who looks like a raisin is to show that Mohamed was giving in his mind the lowest or most derogatory person in his mind as the example to follow.

His intention was to say that even if this lowly form of human, such as a raisin head gives you orders you are to follow him.Which is a bigoted statement in and of itself.

Even follow that raisin head.

See how convoluted your mind is. You cannot think objectively. And I still dont know if your going to comprehend what I am saying because you are so dug into your beliefs that you are incapable of objective reasoning and critical thinking!

search 4 truth said...

@ Samatar
"


See the final message that the prophet (pbuh) gave his people . He said that black and white men were equal about 14 centuries ago. The so called westernized christian country U.S.A did not give these rights until very recently. Next time you bring a verse, please don't shoot yourself in the foot while doing it."

Yeah but Mohamed and your Allah taught a different type of bigotry. Religious bigotry, fascism and intolerance of non Muslims!

Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (3:110)

Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

7.176 If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect.

7.179 Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).

So hate is hate, regardless if it racial or hatred for those who do not follow what you follow. So your argument is 100% empty!

You cant say well we cant hate these people, but it's ok to hate these other people. Thats called hypocrisy!

kenmehms said...

Seeing as samatar lives in some sort of Islamic dram world.

Some more devidence:


Muslims took slaves from all over the lands they conquered, many of the Muslim slaves were black Africans. 
 
            There was a famous black slave revolt in Iraq where thousands of black slaves revolted and killed tens of thousands of Arabs in Basrah.  There slaves were forced to work in the large Muslim saltpeter mines.  During their revolt, they conquered the city of Basrah, in Iraq.  They conquered city after city, and they couldn't be stopped.  Their uprising and drive for freedom lasted for about 11 years.  ["The History of Islam", Robert Payne, p.185.]
 
           Bernard Lewis in "The Arabs in History" writes:  "polytheists and idolaters were seen primarily as sources of slaves."
 
            In the early years of the Arab conquests, vast numbers of slave were acquired by capture.  C.E. Bosworth in "The Islamic Dynasties" writes:  "the use of this labor enabled the Arabs to live on the conquered land as a rentier class and to exploit some of the economic potential of the rich Fertile Crescent."
 
 
            Ibn Warraq writes:  "Arabs were deeply involved in the vast network of slave trading - they scoured the slave markets of China, India, and Southeast Asia.  There were Turkish slaves from Central Asia, slaves from the Byzantine Empire, white slave from Central and East Europe, and Black slaves from West and East Africa.  Every city in the Islamic world had its slave market."

Please read:

"Slavery and Muslim Society in Africa", by Allan Fisher, pub in 1971, and
 
"The Slave Trade Today" by Sean O'Callaghan, pub in 1961.

In 'The Slave Trade Today', Sean O'Callaghan toured the Mideast and Africa and covertly visited many slave markets

In Djibouti he writes:
            "Ten boys were ranged in a circle on the dais (used to display the slaves), their buttocks toward us.  They were all naked, and I saw with horror that five had been castrated.  The (slave dealer) said that usually 10% of the boys are castrated, being purchased by Saudi homosexuals, or by Yemenis, who own harems, as guards." p 75
            "Why had the girls (female slaves who had just been sold) had accepted their fate without a murmur, the boys howled and cried?"  "Simple" said the Somali, we tell the girls from a very early age  - 7 or 8 that they are made for love, at age NINE we let them practice with each other, and a year later with the boys".
 
 
In Aden he writes:
            "The Yemeni told me that the girls (slave girls used as prostitutes) were encouraged to have children, especially by white men.  For if a slave girl had a white child, she was given a bonus of 20 pounds when the child was taken from her".    As you can see, the child of a slave remained a slave, the owner could sell the child and make money.  This sale is allowable under Islamic law.

kenmehms said...

Continued:


            "Only one offense was severely punished; attempting to escape from the harem... The wretched girl was stripped and spread eagle in the courtyard...punishment was administer by a eunuch, a huge powerful Negro who seemed to enjoy his task.  70 lashes were given."
 
            "Because of this (the fact that eunuchs can perform sexually), the eunuch often has his penis removed as well as his testicles"!  This is also legal under Islamic law, since it is preparing the slave for service.
 
 
In Saudi Arabia he writes:

            'The slave population was estimated at 450,000"!.  ....Slave auctions are no longer held regularly, only in an alley in Mecca."
 
            'I was awakened by shouts and screams coming from the courtyard.  Rushing to the window I looked down to see a dozen slaves being herded through a door at the far end of the yard.  They were being driven in like cattle by three hefty guards armed with long lashed whips.  Even as I watched, one of the poor wretches, a Sudanese girl with huge breasts, received a savage lash across her naked buttocks let out a shriek of agony'
 
            'As the next slave was led in, a murmur of excitement went up among the buyers and they crowded closer around the rostrum.  He was a slender boy of about 12 years old with beautiful classical Arab features.  Although much has been written about Arab brotherhood and solidarity, I knew that the Arab has no compunction in enslaving his fellows should they fall into his hands.
The boy was naked and tried to cover his privates with his little hands and he ran up the steps of the rostrum......there is an age old saying among the Bedouin:  "A goat for use, a girl for enjoyment, but a boy for ecstasy".  He (the now purchased slave boy) was claimed by a tall bearded Arab who led him from the rostrum with an arm around his waist".


 
 
            In Fisher's book, other observations are recorded:

In Mecca:
"We take note of 20 tall Negroes in turbans walking near the Kaba.  They are eunuch slaves and are employed as police in the great Mosque.  There are about 50 of them all together."
 
            "The streets are full of slaves... we see a few old slave women.  They are recognized by the poverty of clothing... but we see nothing of the younger women slaves who are kept in the houses of the city."
 
            "As we move along we see two or three very old men and women who look like black skeletons.  If we go to the mosque at sunrise we shall see some of these, if we go at sunset they will be there too, and if we pass by at midnight, we shall see them there still .. Sleeping on the stones in their rags.  They have no home but the mosque, and no food but what they receive in alms; (they were) turned out to seek the bounty of Allah, as their masters would say."
 
            Speaking of how Saudi obtains so many black slaves:  "they (the slave traders) pose as Muslim missionaries who guide their compatriots (black African Muslims), to the Holy Places of Islam, to make the Pilgrimage, and be instructed in the Quran in Arabic."  Once transported, they are made into slaves.

 
 Fisher also notes that white slaves are most highly prized.
 
            Another interesting comment I've come across is that there were regions in black Africa that Muslim missionaries wouldn't go into.  The reason is that if those blacks became Muslim, they could no longer enslave them.  So, the Muslims banned spreading the word of Islam among certain black tribes.  It was from these tribes that local Muslim rulers would harvest slaves, and sell them throughout the Islamic world.

kenmehms said...

Seeing as Samatar lives in some Islamic fantasy world:


Muslims took slaves from all over the lands they conquered, many of the Muslim slaves were black Africans. 
 
            There was a famous black slave revolt in Iraq where thousands of black slaves revolted and killed tens of thousands of Arabs in Basrah.  There slaves were forced to work in the large Muslim saltpeter mines.  During their revolt, they conquered the city of Basrah, in Iraq.  They conquered city after city, and they couldn't be stopped.  Their uprising and drive for freedom lasted for about 11 years.  ["The History of Islam", Robert Payne, p.185.]
 
           Bernard Lewis in "The Arabs in History" writes:  "polytheists and idolaters were seen primarily as sources of slaves."
 
            In the early years of the Arab conquests, vast numbers of slave were acquired by capture.  C.E. Bosworth in "The Islamic Dynasties" writes:  "the use of this labor enabled the Arabs to live on the conquered land as a rentier class and to exploit some of the economic potential of the rich Fertile Crescent."
 
 
            Ibn Warraq writes:  "Arabs were deeply involved in the vast network of slave trading - they scoured the slave markets of China, India, and Southeast Asia.  There were Turkish slaves from Central Asia, slaves from the Byzantine Empire, white slave from Central and East Europe, and Black slaves from West and East Africa.  Every city in the Islamic world had its slave market."

Please read:

"Slavery and Muslim Society in Africa", by Allan Fisher, pub in 1971, and
 
"The Slave Trade Today" by Sean O'Callaghan, pub in 1961.

kenmehms said...

Continued



In 'The Slave Trade Today', Sean O'Callaghan toured the Mideast and Africa and covertly visited many slave markets

In Djibouti he writes:
            "Ten boys were ranged in a circle on the dais (used to display the slaves), their buttocks toward us.  They were all naked, and I saw with horror that five had been castrated.  The (slave dealer) said that usually 10% of the boys are castrated, being purchased by Saudi homosexuals, or by Yemenis, who own harems, as guards." p 75
            "Why had the girls (female slaves who had just been sold) had accepted their fate without a murmur, the boys howled and cried?"  "Simple" said the Somali, we tell the girls from a very early age  - 7 or 8 that they are made for love, at age NINE we let them practice with each other, and a year later with the boys".
 
 
In Aden he writes:
            "The Yemeni told me that the girls (slave girls used as prostitutes) were encouraged to have children, especially by white men.  For if a slave girl had a white child, she was given a bonus of 20 pounds when the child was taken from her".    As you can see, the child of a slave remained a slave, the owner could sell the child and make money.  This sale is allowable under Islamic law.
 
            "Only one offense was severely punished; attempting to escape from the harem... The wretched girl was stripped and spread eagle in the courtyard...punishment was administer by a eunuch, a huge powerful Negro who seemed to enjoy his task.  70 lashes were given."
 
            "Because of this (the fact that eunuchs can perform sexually), the eunuch often has his penis removed as well as his testicles"!  This is also legal under Islamic law, since it is preparing the slave for service.
 
 
In Saudi Arabia he writes:

            'The slave population was estimated at 450,000"!.  ....Slave auctions are no longer held regularly, only in an alley in Mecca."
 
            'I was awakened by shouts and screams coming from the courtyard.  Rushing to the window I looked down to see a dozen slaves being herded through a door at the far end of the yard.  They were being driven in like cattle by three hefty guards armed with long lashed whips.  Even as I watched, one of the poor wretches, a Sudanese girl with huge breasts, received a savage lash across her naked buttocks let out a shriek of agony'
 
            'As the next slave was led in, a murmur of excitement went up among the buyers and they crowded closer around the rostrum.  He was a slender boy of about 12 years old with beautiful classical Arab features.  Although much has been written about Arab brotherhood and solidarity, I knew that the Arab has no compunction in enslaving his fellows should they fall into his hands.
The boy was naked and tried to cover his privates with his little hands and he ran up the steps of the rostrum......there is an age old saying among the Bedouin:  "A goat for use, a girl for enjoyment, but a boy for ecstasy".  He (the now purchased slave boy) was claimed by a tall bearded Arab who led him from the rostrum with an arm around his waist".

kenmehms said...

Continued.


            In Fisher's book, other observations are recorded:

In Mecca:
"We take note of 20 tall Negroes in turbans walking near the Kaba.  They are eunuch slaves and are employed as police in the great Mosque.  There are about 50 of them all together."
 
            "The streets are full of slaves... we see a few old slave women.  They are recognized by the poverty of clothing... but we see nothing of the younger women slaves who are kept in the houses of the city."
 
            "As we move along we see two or three very old men and women who look like black skeletons.  If we go to the mosque at sunrise we shall see some of these, if we go at sunset they will be there too, and if we pass by at midnight, we shall see them there still .. Sleeping on the stones in their rags.  They have no home but the mosque, and no food but what they receive in alms; (they were) turned out to seek the bounty of Allah, as their masters would say."
 
            Speaking of how Saudi obtains so many black slaves:  "they (the slave traders) pose as Muslim missionaries who guide their compatriots (black African Muslims), to the Holy Places of Islam, to make the Pilgrimage, and be instructed in the Quran in Arabic."  Once transported, they are made into slaves.

 
 Fisher also notes that white slaves are most highly prized.
 
            Another interesting comment I've come across is that there were regions in black Africa that Muslim missionaries wouldn't go into.  The reason is that if those blacks became Muslim, they could no longer enslave them.  So, the Muslims banned spreading the word of Islam among certain black tribes.  It was from these tribes that local Muslim rulers would harvest slaves, and sell them throughout the Islamic world.
 

kenmehms said...

Answering Muslims team.

Any idea why my comments are not showing?

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Search4Truth

(Yeah but Mohamed and your Allah taught a different type of bigotry. Religious bigotry, fascism and intolerance of non Muslims!)

But my point was to show that the prophet (pbuh) undoubtedly taught that black are equal with white people. Kenmehens only defense on that account was that the prophet called a black man, a slave whose head looks like a raisin. But he forgets that the message of the prophet (pbuh) was to show that arabs should obey even those they view as the lowest in the totem pole. The significance of the Prophet (pbuh) telling them to listen and obey a man like that is very high, and shows me that the prophet (pbuh) believed in equality. And it was fully highlighted in his farewell speech where he said that black men and white men are equal in the sight of God. Now to your point about religous bigotry in Islam i find as a double standard set by you. Christianity as well as Islam is an exclusive religion that believes that only the ones in the true path enter paradise. Those who do not follow christianity are usually called the Ungodly, and Idolaters. Both religions clearly believe that the worst sin a man can commit is not believing in the one true God, when a clear sign has come to him. Now with all that, dont you also believe that one who has free will, choice, and was given a clear message from God, yet chose to deny it is the worst of creatures. Definitely lower than the animals who have no free choice, and the believers who chose to believe and obey God almighty. I certainly would believe that. After all, the only ones entering hell are those that disobey and disbelieve in God almighty for no good reason. Not the angels who listen to Gods command, or the animals who have no free choice, or the pious, who God bestowed mercy on for believing and obeying him. Also, the Bible tells christians to love their enemies. But a quick question, do you love satan, because he is your worst enemy and only wishes harm upon you.

search 4 truth said...

@ Samatar

There is no bigotry in this life in Christianity. We are told to even love our enemies. It is your choice to accept Christ or not. We are not told to force others, unlike Islam, or persecute non Christians, unlike Islam, or extort from non Christians, unlike Islam, or subjugate non Christians, unlike Islam.

Why do you continue to make these same innacurate comparisons! It is insanity to me that you cannot see the contradiction. Jesus said this world is not his kingdom and to give unto Ceaser what is Ceasers! And we have explained this to you a hundred times. But yet you still continue to spew this nonsense! Like your brain juust will not accept it.

We in no way can be bigoted or fascist, or hate non Christinas! That is the difference! Now get it, absorb it, and accept it. It's the truth! You are amazing to me how many times we have to repeat the same things over and over and you still will use the same refuted argument whenever you think it might work! Dude accept the facts and move on! Stop repeating what has been refuted! This make sit so hard for me to be civil to you, you have no idea!.

search 4 truth said...

And I am almost positive the question about Satan has been answered before. I would almost be willing to bet on it. So here is a response!

http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp74.htm

D335 said...

@Samatar Mohammed.

SM "But a quick question, do you love satan, because he is your worst enemy and only wishes harm upon you."

What's your definition of Love?

should you cares someone?
should you play with someone?
should you smile often to someone?
should you have strong affection to someone?

that's a weak definition of Love. i.e.
A parent who love his/her children probably smack the head of his/her kids once a while when the kids disobey their parent. Outta love!
A friend might told another friend if they were about to be in trouble even if it should strain the relationship. Outta love!
The best example is Jesus, when He DIED for us, Christians :p or people who believe in Him. Outta love!

That is greater understanding of love! Doing something in benefit of the other despite an unfortunate condition. And Jesus's love to us is AGAPE, an unconditional love, the biggest of them all.

D335

fetanu said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
fetanu said...

first of all what i read here is very wrong about Ethiopia. during prophit mohammed time who give asylum for mohamed folowers including his family . 1 Ethiopans never been slaved
2 Ethiopa during that thime far power full kingdom than Arabs
3 Ethiopa never been colonized or never fall under outsider will never
i know why the Arabs use Ethiopan name because of during mohaamod time all of Africa never known to them except Ethiopia and Egypt

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Searchfortruth

You will recall that my question was "Do you love satan". The site you showed me claimed that christians should hate Satan as God hates satan. Now I do have a few problem with this suggestion. The first is, does hate also mean "not loving". I believe that, but you as a christian may have a problem with this because the christian God is all loving regardless of who it is, or what they have done. In Romans 9:13, God declares that he loved jacob but Esau he "HATED". Therefore, since God has declared in the Old testament several times that he hated people "not their sin", you would have to agree that God is not all loving like you claim. But if you say that hate does not actually mean "not loving", then the site you have given me has completely dodged the question. Noted christian apologist William Lane Craig has said many times that hate does not mean "not loving", and even David wood has also mentioned this in debates. The question is, do you love satan? With regard to your statement on bigotry and christianity, what I emphasized is that you christians also believe that you are the men of God, therefore, don't you also believe that you are superior due to pious actions, as compared to a taliban fighter who bombs himself with children in the near area. You have constantly accused me of not being straightforward, but you are doing the same thing that you once condemned. If you do not think that christians are superior than other religions, because they have the supposed true path, than you are only kidding yourself.

Samatar Mohamed said...

@D335

I'm pretty sure that even you are beginning to understand the dodging you are doing right now. If I had asked you, do you love muslims,you would have said yes, while bringing me passages in the bible that tells you to love your enemy. But Isn't satan your enemy also, therefore, according to the Biblical passages, you must also love satan. However, You know as well as i do that muslims, christians, jews alike despise and hate satan. Therefore, you are left with a dillema. Do you say yes, or no. You decide to choose neither, and go on to redefine what love is, and what love do I mean. Do you guys see the desperation.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Fetanu

Time magazine corrects this false impression when he says:

"The African slave trade as such, the black traffic, was an Arab invention, developed by traders with the enthusiastic collaboration of black African ones, institutionalized with the most unrelenting brutality, centuries before the white man appeared on the African continent, and continuing long after the slave market in North America was finally crushed... Nothing in the writings of the Prophet [Muhammad] forbids slavery, which is why it became such an Arab-dominated business. And the slave traffic could not have existed without the wholehearted cooperation of African tribal states, built on the supply of captives generated by their relentless wars. The image promulgated by pop-history fictions like Roots - of white slavers bursting with cutlass and musket into the settled lives of peaceful African villages - is very far from the historical truth. A marketing system had been in place for centuries, and its supply was controlled by Africans. Nor did it simply vanish with Abolition. Slave markets, supplying the Arab Emirates, were still operating in Djibouti in the 1950's; and since 1960, the slave trade has flourished in Mauritania and the Sudan. There are still reports of chattel slavery in northern Nigeria, Rwanda and Niger."

search 4 truth said...

Historians estimate that between 10 and 18 million Africans were enslaved by Arab slave traders and taken across the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara desert between 650 and 1900.[2][3][4][5] It should be noted that the term Arab when used in historical documents often represented a cultural term rather than a "racial" term, and many of the "Arab" slave traders such as Tippu Tip and others were indistinguishable from the "Africans" whom they enslaved and sold. Due to the nature of the Arab slave trade it is also impossible to be precise about actual numbers.[6][7][8][9]
Periodic Arab raiding expeditions were sent from Islamic Iberia to ravage the Christian Iberian kingdoms, bringing back booty and slaves. In a raid against Lisbon in 1189, for example, the Almohad caliph Yaqub al-Mansur took 3,000 female and child captives, while his governor of Córdoba, in a subsequent attack upon Silves in 1191, took 3,000 Christian slaves.[10]

search 4 truth said...

@ Samatar


No we believe we are all sinners, in no way am I superior to you or anyone. A Christian is not a better person than a non-Christian, but he is certainly in better hands. Because a believer has Christ as his Savior, he is guaranteed to obtain the gift of eternal life.

A non-Christian has no advocate to intercede for him. Once he dies, he will have to face judgment alone. The Bible plainly says that anyone found guilty of breaking the commandments of God will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death” (Rev. 21:8).

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Heb. 10:31). Because all have sinned and are in need of Christ’s forgiveness, it should be evident that Christians are no better than non-Christians.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

It is not a matter of Christians thinking that they are better. There is nothing a person can do to earn their salvation. Instead, it is a gift of God, "not of works. lest any man should boast".


God both loves and hates. His nature is love (1 John 4:8), but He is also righteous (Psalm 7:9) and holy (Isaiah 6:3).
Hosea 9:15
I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings.

Foolster41 said...

"If you do not think that christians are superior than other religions, because they have the supposed true path, than you are only kidding yourself."

You are making the FALSE assumption that believing you are right is equal to a smug superiority (as if there are, and then a further assumption that this suppority somehow equals bigotry, even if no action is taken. And then a final false assumption that believing one is right automatically makes one a bigot, thus how Muslims and Christians behave are equal.

It's a red herring down a rabbit hole intended to distract. Your combining Tu Quo Que with false assumptions and logical shortcuts.

I suppose a teacher is bigoted against students, since he believes he holds the right answers? A man who saves a drowning man?

Christianity teaches to love those who persecute you, and to gently but firmly tell the Truth. Is;am on the other hand teaches to slay and subjugate the non-beleiver. the fact is you can't really explain the later, and so your using DISHONEST arguments.

Search 4 Truth said...

He does not love the unbelievers (30:45)

Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger": But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith. (3:32)

Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. (4:56)

If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance (32:13)

Verily We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness, if thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance. (18:57) – See also 17:46 & 45:23

No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand (10:100)

And if Allah please He would certainly make you a single nation, but He causes to err whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases; and most certainly you will be questioned as to what you did (16:93)

…and whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall not find a way for him. (4:143, see also 4:88 and 74:31)

…and Allah sendeth him astray purposely, and sealeth up his hearing and his heart, and setteth on his sight a covering? Then who will lead him after Allah (hath condemned him)? Will ye not then heed? (45:23)

See thou not that We have set the Evil Ones on against the unbelievers, to incite them with fury? (19:83)

As to those who do not believe in the hereafter, We have surely made their deeds fair-seeming to them, but they blindly wander on. (27:4) See also 39:23, 6:39, 35:8, 13:27 & 14:4)

Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. (58:22)

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. (9:123)

As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom (2:6)

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment. (8:12-13)

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence (8:65)

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Search4truth

You still have not replied to my statement on whether you love satan or not. i posted a comment on it, but you decided not to answer the question. You gave me a site, but I showed you the problem with the site in my earlier post on how it was either dodging the question, or it assumed that hate means the same thing as "not loving". Remember i do not have a problem with that, but you as a christian has to have a problem with that because in Romans 9:13 God said Jacob he loved, but Esau he hated. This would lead people to believe that the christian God is not all loving after all. Please reply, thanks.

Samatar Mohamed said...

@search4truth

You implied in your statement that you are in the right path, and not people like me because of the grace of God. Therefore, the difference between you, and a Taliban fighter who is blowing children as he drives by them in a car is nothing because you were in Gods grace and not him. It almost seems like you are blaming God for picking and choosing who he will grace for no reason. Surely you believe that God blesses those who strive to establish a relationship with God, and are always in constant awareness of him in their daily lives. After all, one enters into etrrnity of heaven in the site if their magnificent lord, while the other endures an eternity of torment in hell along with satan. If you are telling me that there is no belief in superiority with that teaching then I am truly at a loss for words.

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Search4truth

You brought up verses from the Quran showing God does not love evil doers etc... But that was not what we were discussing. We were discussing whether you christians love satan or not. Please stay in topic and answer the simple question I brought forth.

kenmehms said...

Samatar

We are told to love other PEOPLE.

Satan is not a person.

search 4 truth said...

@ Samatar

WOW are you making some huge presuppositions! Well first of all, Satan is not a human being. I don’t think I am required to love Satan who is the embodiment of sin. There is nothing good from him, he is evil, and I hate evil, that’s why I hate Islam. God hates sin, and Satan is sin. So I don’t see a problem with that. Also your analogy about the Taliban does not even make sense. God does not choose, we have free will. So how am I blaming the God for the Talibans actions? That does not make any sense at all.

The Taliban fighter is following a false God and an anti Christ. He has made that decision. God told him in the Bible and he ignored it! Your not making any sense.

You think that God should reward someone who is one the wrong path and ignoring him? What?

I never said there was not a superior belief. Obviously there is, even one that is superior on this earth. But a belief is not a person. You can separate the person from an ideology. Like I love you, but I hate the evil ideology that you follow.

And I did stay on topic, I was showing that not only does your Allah make people sin, he makes there deeds semm correct, sends demons on them all so he can torment them in hell. That is on topic and it shows what a perverse and evil God you have. There is no free will in Islam.

kenmehms said...

Plus Samatar.

You see we are told to love our earthly (human) enemies.

Satan is not a person.

Our battle is spiritual, it is not against flesh and blood, as it says in Ephesians 6:

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might.
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

search 4 truth said...

@ Samatar so are you implying that anyone who seeks God is going to find them regardless of what path they are on? Do you realize how hypocritical that sounds? But you want to apply it to Christians? Come one man!

Hazakim1 said...

" But that was not what we were discussing. We were discussing whether you christians love satan or not. Please stay in topic and answer the simple question I brought forth."

Brutha PALEEZ! The topic is not determined by your whim. We were talking about how sad it is that black men are willing to persecute other black men for a false prophet who sees them as "raisin heads" and you want to ask a silly question like "do you love Satan" and DEMAND that we switch topics and answer your question? Are you kidding me?

And as for you and fetanu's dellusional contention that Muhammad, whom the hadith continually describe as "white", and his companions, had a very low opinion of blacks and DID IN FACT have black slaves. Needless to say, it is this legacy that has led to the use of the word "Abd" in reference to blacks to this very day.

"Narrated Salim's father: The Prophet said, "I saw in a dream a black woman with unkempt (nappy) hair going out of Medina and settling in Mahai'a. I interpreted that as a symbol of epidemic of Medina being transferred to Mahai'a, namely, Al-Juhfa (catastophe)." Sahih Bukhari 9:87:163



"The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) described their attributes and I found these attributes in them. They state the truth with their tongue, but it does not go beyond this part of their bodies (and the narrator pointed towards his throat). The most hateful among the creation of Allah is one black man among them (Khwarij). One of his hands is like the tit of a goat or the nipple of the breast. When 'Ali b. Abu Talib (Allah be pleased with him) killed them, he said: Search (for his dead body). They searched for him, but they did not find it (his dead body)." Sahih Muslim 5:2334

"Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks." Al-Tabari Vol 2, page 11

As for me, I serve a God and believe a Messiah who said no such ill words of black people. Your examples come from the examples of mere men, not our SCRIPTURE! My examples come straight from the MOUTH of your prophet! What have you to say to this!?

Hazakim1 said...

" But that was not what we were discussing. We were discussing whether you christians love satan or not. Please stay in topic and answer the simple question I brought forth."

Brutha PALEEZ! The topic is not determined by your whim. We were talking about how sad it is that black men are willing to persecute other black men for a false prophet who sees them as "raisin heads" and you want to ask a silly question like "do you love Satan" and DEMAND that we switch topics and answer your question? Are you kidding me?

And as for you and fetanu's dellusional contention that Muhammad, whom the hadith continually describe as "white", and his companions, had a very low opinion of blacks and DID IN FACT have black slaves. Needless to say, it is this legacy that has led to the use of the word "Abd" in reference to blacks to this very day.

"Narrated Salim's father: The Prophet said, "I saw in a dream a black woman with unkempt (nappy) hair going out of Medina and settling in Mahai'a. I interpreted that as a symbol of epidemic of Medina being transferred to Mahai'a, namely, Al-Juhfa (catastophe)." Sahih Bukhari 9:87:163



"The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) described their attributes and I found these attributes in them. They state the truth with their tongue, but it does not go beyond this part of their bodies (and the narrator pointed towards his throat). The most hateful among the creation of Allah is one black man among them (Khwarij). One of his hands is like the tit of a goat or the nipple of the breast. When 'Ali b. Abu Talib (Allah be pleased with him) killed them, he said: Search (for his dead body). They searched for him, but they did not find it (his dead body)." Sahih Muslim 5:2334

"Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks." Al-Tabari Vol 2, page 11

As for me, I serve a God and believe a Messiah who said no such ill words of black people. Your examples come from the examples of mere men, not our SCRIPTURE! My examples come straight from the MOUTH of your prophet! What have you to say to this!?

Hazakim1 said...

And since Samatar wants to claim that Islam has done so much to liberate blacks, while white Americans (who were all biblical scholars - sarcasm) did not believe blacks were equal, I must continue with the TRUE evidence.

I need not defend the history of racism in America...it has nothing to do with Scripture. We shall soon see that Samatar is either ignorant or a deciever. In addition to the aforementioned Hadith, we have the words of Islamic scholars which further prove that Islamic culture has been historically racist against blacks.

"Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because black have little [that is essentially] human [attributes] and have attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated."

"beyond known peoples of black West Africa to the south there is no civilization in the proper sense. There are only humans who are closer to stupid animals than to rational beings. They live in bushes and caves, and eat herbs and uncooked grain. They often eat each other. They cannot be considered humans." -Ibn Khaldun, Muqaddimah, 14th century


"Blacks are people who are by their very nature slaves." -Adam Misbah aI-Haqq

"Blacks are ugly and odd looking, because they live in a hot country." -Ibn Qutaybah

"If all kinds of men are taken, from the first, and one placed after another, like the Negro from Zanzibar, in the Southern-most countries, the Negro does not differ from an animal in anything except the fact that his hands have been lifted from the earth -in no other peculiarity or property - except for what God wished. Many have seen that the ape is more capable of being trained than the Negro, and more intelligent." -Grand Ayatollah Nasir al-Din al-Tusi, Tasawwurat (Rawdat al-taslim)

"Galen says that merriment dominates the black man because of his defective brain, whence also the weakness of his intelligence." - Al-Masudi, Muruj al-dhahab

"Like the crow among mankind are the Zanj African Blacks for they are the worst of men and the most vicious of creatures in character and temperament." Al Jahiz


Should I go on!?!?

Foolster41 said...

@Samatar:

"Therefore, the difference between you, and a Taliban fighter who is blowing children as he drives by them in a car is nothing because you were in Gods grace and not him."

Uh, the difference is that S4T and other Christians ARE NOT BLOWING THEMSELVES UP, and IS NOT COMMANDED TO SLAY UNBELEIVERS. It frightens me that you actually have the NERVE to equate beleiving one is right with violence such as the things muslims do. That's just sick and EXTREMELY DISHONEST.

Christians are told to pray for those who persecute them, Muslims are told to slay and subjegate the non-beleiver. This has been explained a few times, and I've explained how this is a mish-mash of logical fallacies. Your equivilence of saying "Christians beleive their right, therefore are just as bad as muslims is NONSENSE.

But you insist on repeating the same garbage over and over (for example, your insistance that Christians asign other partners to God in the trinity) and ignore the posts that refute you that you don't like.

It's simply because you refuse to really admit you don't understand Christsian teaching, or even consider may be just maybe you're wrong. (ironic! You have a smug superiority because you beleive you are right! Therefore you are a bigot!)

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Search4truth and Ken

Good to see you guys responded. I don't know if you guys are beginning to notice, but everytime I trap you into a wall, you go on redefine things. The bible instructs you to love your enemies, satan is your enemy, so do you love him. But if your love is only limited humans, what about the love for animals, the environment, etc... And even more disturbing is that the site you described that humans should hate satan because of his evil, and God hates satan. If God hates satan, then he is not all loving like christians claim. But you pulled a fast one by saying that God hates sin, satan is sin, so all is good in the hood. But you know as well as I do that satan is not sin, rather he commits sins like we do. He was given the free choice we were given, and chose not to obey God, and promised to doom humans until the hereafter. So when you say that satan is sin, it just seems like a desperate plan to justify the actions of yourself and of your God (Jesus and the holy spirit).

kenmehms said...

Samatar are you serious?

Trap us into a wall??

You think very highly of yourself.

Answers have been given but as with all other Muslims you think that just saying "No I don't accept that" is a refutation.

I am afraid you are blinded and I truly pity you as I pity all muslims (being a former Muslim myself) it pains me to see so many of my family and close friends so deceived by the evil of Islam.

At the same time you, Kim, Osama do make me laugh. You go on about refuting this or refuting that and you actually convince yourselves!

I am afraid I have yet to see any of you refute one thing!

The truth is you three could not refute your way out of the skin of a rice pudding!

Search 4 Truth said...

SAmatar we are not redefining things. YOU ARE!

You are setting up a false premise. In no way does it speak of Satan or angels or demons.

You are attempting to define Satan as an earthly enemy. If you read the verse in context, which Muslims will never and can never do. It states about earthly matters! And I have not witnessed you corner anyone in any topic, in fact you have been refuted in every topic that you have encountered.

Luke 6:27-36

[27] "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. [29] If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. [30] Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. [31] Do to others as you would have them do to you.

[32] "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. [33] And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. [34] And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. [35] But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. [36] Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Those who mistreat you, those who you lend money to, those who slap you.

You are trying to play games. This is quite pathetic. Satan is not a human.

1. Satan does not slap my face
2. Satan does not steal my cloak
3. if I were to do unto Satan what he does to me, I would be Satan
4. I do not lend to Satan
So it's clear that he is talking about our earthly enemies.

Now as for animals. This is one of the most preposterous statements you have made as of yet! Do you think we are suppose to be bad to animals, or harm them with no regard? Where is your evidence for this. Thats called a straw man argument.

Now as for God loving Satan, I dont know, maybe he does, he is a fallen angel. I cant answer that for God. But you are setting up false premises, non sequiter, Confusing correlation and casusation.

Nice try but pathetic none the least.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Samatar

And I like how you didnt answer about the ridiculous statement you made about the Taliban. Quite selective of you huh?

That was preposterous! LOL!

Foolster41 said...

*Taps on mic*
Hello? Is this thing on?