Saturday, October 8, 2011

Muslims Declare Jihad against Dogs . . . in Spain

So here's how the discussion usually goes.

DAVID: "I have an important fact to share. Islam promotes violence and calls for Sharia."

WESTERNER: "Nonsense! I know several Muslims, and they've never tried to kill me or impose Sharia on me!"

DAVID: "That's because you live in the United States, where Muslims are in an extreme minority. In such cases, Islam allows devout Muslims to pretend to be peaceful. Most Western Muslims believe that Islam is peaceful, but only because they've been more influenced by Western values than by Islam. Wherever the numbers start to rise, so do demands for Sharia and instances of violence."

WESTERNER: "Despite overwhelming evidence that you're absolutely correct, I completely deny your claims!"

Now for today's example. Muhammad ordered his followers to kill dogs. Here in the United States, Muslims do not kill dogs. But in areas where Muslim numbers are significantly higher, well, just read . . .

SPAIN--Spanish authorities are investigating the recent deaths by poisoning of more than a dozen dogs in Lérida, a city in the northeastern region of Catalonia that has become ground zero in an intensifying debate over the role of Islam in Spain.

All of the dogs were poisoned in September (local media reports here, here, here, here and here) in Lérida's working class neighbourhoods of Cappont and La Bordeta, districts that are heavily populated by Muslim immigrants and where many dogs have been killed in recent years.

Local residents say Muslim immigrants killed the dogs because according to Islamic teaching dogs are "unclean" animals.

Over the past several months, residents taking their dogs for walks have been harassed by Muslim immigrants opposed to seeing the animals in public. Muslims have also launched a number of anti-dog campaigns on Islamic websites and blogs based in Spain.

In response to the "lack of sufficient police to protect the neighbourhood," 50 local residents have established alternating six-person citizen patrols to escort people walking their dogs.

In July, two Islamic groups based in Lérida asked city officials to regulate the presence of dogs in public spaces so they do not "offend Muslims." Muslims are demanding that dogs be banned from all forms of public transportation including all city buses as well as from all areas frequented by Muslim immigrants.

Muslims in Lérida say the presence of dogs violates their religious freedom and their right to live according to Islamic principles. (Read more.)

35 comments:

Kim said...

Yup.

Only an ignorant person would think that we Muslims are commanded to kill any dogs we find.

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/islam_and_the_killing_of_dogs

Kim said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5JTf-LK9Vk

Thank you David. The more you bring up issues like this, the more I learn about my religion :)
I appreciate it.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Kim

I see you have moved onto from the previous topic you and Islam were exposed at.

Now you arfe trying to post the lies of youtube videos to refute the CLEAR commands from your Prophet!

How does that work? Now Muslim youtube videos that lies and contradict Mohamed are the true path?

i dont get it! Muslims of today who apostate by lying about Mohamed and Islam are the true scholars today! Thats amazing! which youtube channel is the new Prophet of Islam?

From Bukhari Vol. 4, #540

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.

Muslim Number 3815:

Ibn Umar reported Allah's Messenger as saying: He who keeps a dog other than that meant for watching the herd or for hunting loses every day out of his deeds equal to two qirat.

From Bukhari Vol. 4, #448

Narrated Abu Talha: "I heard Allah's Apostle saying; "Angels (of Mercy) do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or a picture of a living creature (a human being or an animal).""

From Bukhari Vol. 7, #843

Narrated Salim's father: "Once Gabriel promised to visit the Prophet but he delayed and the Prophet got worried about that. At last he came out and found Gabriel and complained to him of his grief (for his delay). Gabriel said to him, "We do not enter a place in which there is a picture or a dog.""

From Muslim, #5276:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger as saying: Angels do not accompany the travelers who have with them a dog and a bell.

I am so confused. How do I know what true Islam and Mohameds sunna is? Youtube, or the sahih hadith and tafsirs?

UNBELIEVABLE!

Deleting said...

Kim said 'Thank you David. The more you bring up issues like this, the more I learn about my religion :)
I appreciate it.'

You might learn even more if you bought a Koran and read it. Even the hadiths since Islam is a "perfectly clear religion."

Or maybe you could pick up that dust covered book on your bookshelf called the holy bible, you know the one you never read but you know so much about and that's why you converted to a religion. A religion that doesn't require you to read the koran or hadiths or even know what the core doctrines are.

A relgion, by the way, that requires prayer in a language you don't speak nor understand.

And less we forget, using critical thinking skills and solid reasoning are haram too, so it's good your religion doesn't require you to do that as well.

Just keep trolling websites Kim and pick up bits here and there and ignore the muslim writings you don't like, hang on to the ones you do and fight anyone who cares enough to tell you the truth kim.

CristoTeAma said...

I am spaniard and yep i heard about this, also the problem in "Salt" the municipality, is making right wing come to power, people is tired of the robberies and violence muslims have brought to this city, also they don't adapt, some days ago a 14 years old girl was banned from a school because she didn't want to take off the veil in an exam, and it is because of the rules in high schools here in spain, since many kids are cheating on exams using small headphones, they must know keep all the time during an exam their heads visible, also The Catalan nationalist party Plataforma per Catalunya (PxC)is an political party gaining power very fast, i think that at least here in Spain people is starting to see Islam by it's true colors. Al-Andalus is ANDALUCIA!!

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Kim

What you fail to do is check your own sources, Lets see how your ummah and imams lie to you and others. Lets look at the second sentence in your attempt at apologetics.

From http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/islam_and_the_killing_of_dogs

Quote" The order was to kill biting rabid and voracious dogs (Saheeh Bukhari: Volume 3, Book 29, Hadith no. 54; Volume 3, Book 29, Hadith no. 55; Volume 4, Book 54, Hadith no. 531

Now lets explore the sunna and sahih hadith that you presented as evidence to refute the factual claims that Islam is discriminant toward dogs!

Volume 3, Book 29, Number 54:
Narrated Hafsa:

Allah's Apostle said, "It is not sinful (of a Muhrim) to kill five kinds of animals, namely: the crow, the kite, the mouse, the scorpion and the rabid dog."

Volume 3, Book 29, Number 55:
Narrated Aisha:

Allah's Apostle said, "Five kinds of animals are harmful and could be killed in the Haram (Sanctuary). These are: the crow, the kite, the scorpion, the mouse and the rabid dog."

Its funny I dont see anything about rabid dogs here. Certainly Mohamed and Allah didnt think that all dogs and crows and mice were rabid? Allah couldnt be that ignorant, could he?

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Kim

More hatred of mans best friend!

Sahih Muslim

Book 024, Number 5248:
Maimuna reported that one morning Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was silent with grief. Maimuna said: Allah's Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Gabriel had promised me that he would meet me tonight, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises, and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) spent the day in this sad (mood). Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He commanded and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it at that place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him: you promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said: Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. Then on that very morning he commanded the killing of the dogs until he announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog meant for the protection of extensive fields (or big gardens).

Modern science and contradicting Mohamed and Allah: A psychologist from Queen's University, Belfast, said dog owners tended to have lower blood pressure and cholesterol. Dr Deborah Wells reviewed dozens of earlier research papers which looked at the health benefits of pet ownership.


In some cases, the social support offered by an animal is greater than the support than another human could offer
Dr June McNicholas
Health psychologist
She confirmed that pet owners tended in general to be healthier than the average member of the population.

However, her research suggested that dog ownership produced more positive influence than cat ownership.

As well as lower blood pressure and cholesterol, she said dog-owners suffered fewer minor ailments and serious medical problems.


Wow I wonder what to think now? And i was so sure Islam was from the one true God, NOT!

donna60 said...

Kim, We wish you God-speed not only learning about Islam, but learning about Christianity as well. I think you are doing a great job.

Baron Eddie said...

As usual hadiths conflict against each other

We know that Mohammed ordered killing all dogs (is that from Allah?)

then gave exception for hunting dogs (why Allha change his mind?)

then some hadith say not to kill all except the black dog (because he is the devil!)

Muslims are not allowed to get a dog because Angels will not enter a house which contain a dog!

Now, tell me what is going to happen to all those dogs that no one wants!

Getting dog also will lower the Muslim wages "qerat" every day!

About the article that you provided Hadiths Showing Dogs Not Being Killed ... those are weak hadiths anyway ...

In conclusion, What I got from the article and the video is "Abrogration does exist in hadiths"

I bet I will have a debate with a brother Muslim who will tell me that is not true ...

Baron Eddie said...

what about Mohammed ordering killing ravens! ...

My Two Sense said...

Wait a minute here Kim. This is the second time (that I noticed) you have blamed David for posting something on his blog and said only ignorant persons or Islamaphobes post these things. The last time I remember you saying that was the video he posted about Muslims in Moscow. I asked you then something to the effect of: so Americans are wrong for posting the video, are Russians "wrong" for taking the video in the first place??

So here we are again with an outside source that David posts that he had NOTHING TO DO WITH WRITING, he just quoted and linked to it... and somehow he's ignorant and wrong?

In the article itself it links to five newspaper clippings essentially saying, "don't believe us? here's a link to the newspaper article. And another one. And another one. etc..." So obviously some Muslims in Spain DO BELIEVE in killing dogs and dog owners are concerned!

BTW: Those links you posted... They give "abrogation" as a reason not to kill dogs. So you believe in abrogation then? hhhhmmmmm

John 8:24 said...

Kim,

According to your own source that you posted to defend a point, your prophet Muhammad said that the black dog is a devil. Ha ha ha ha ha...

So do you agree with your prophet that the black dog is a devil? How do you explain it?

Islam is a stupid religion! LOL!!!

Anthony Rogers said...

Than you, Kim. The more you reply, the more I learn about the Muslim mindset. :)

I appreciate it.

Let Non Arab - Muslims Live! said...

Kudos. Here's more about the R.O.P

---

From a pen pal:

HISTORY - Time line [some] Important dates in radical 'ISLAM VS WORLD'
http://radicalislamvsworld.webs.com

WhatsUpDoc said...

I remember in Toronto a few years ago one Imam had demanded that dogs should be banned in the parks. His position was that some dogs end up smelling Muslims going to prayers.

That was a few years ago. But now the political situation is such that if they demand again the city of Toronto may ban it.

WhatsUpDoc said...

There is a brand new and first web site in Pakistan just started with lot of opposition. Its called Pakistani Atheist and Agnostic
/www.e-paa.org

Quite a bit of information is there from once devout Muslims. One comment states " Our English professor at time used to bash Christian and Hindu religion we expected this from our Islamic studies teacher not from English".

Another comment states "since Islam arrived in the Indian subcontinent it lit the whole continent on fire and divided brother from brother and it destroys everything it touches"

WhatsUpDoc said...

Come on Kim, Prophet ordered dogs killed because angle told him that they don't visit any house that has a dog and/or a picture in it. It does not say rabid dog plus who will keep a rabid dog inside a house. He still killed Black dog because Black dog is a Devil.

Your link misguides you stick around here you will learn real Islam.

Hemel said...

I am a former muslim .I dislike dogs.So I dont find any problem if dogs are being killed as they can bite.I am often scared when I see dogs along the street of my country.But if dogs are treated how in the western world (each have their own owner) than I have no problem.I dont think killing of dogs is a good argument David.Rather than we should focus on the hatred that the false prophet muhammad taught his followers towards his opposers

My Two Sense said...

Kim -

I tried to send something last night, but it was late and maybe I neglected to publish it (or David didn't like what I said and won't publish it LOL).

"Only an ignorant person would think that we Muslims are commanded to kill any dogs we find."

So by "ignorant", are you referring to David... who copied and pasted the article? The person in Spain who wrote the online article? The list of links to Spanish newspapers that the writer of the article used to reinforce his point? Or the Muslims who, perhaps didn't read your link as a "rebuttal" and are out in Spain killing dogs and misrepresenting Islam?

PS: Your link mentions "abrogation". Do you believe in abrogation?

CristoTeAma said...

Hemel said..
"I dont think killing of dogs is a good argument David,Rather than we should focus on the hatred that the false prophet muhammad taught his followers towards his opposers"

Hi Hemel first time i see you here (at least me)be welcome, there are many articles about Muhammad teachings against his opposers in this web, so David is just adding the cherry to the top of the ice cream. Peace.

curly said...

@Anthony Roger,
LOL... True!!

David Wood said...

Hemel said: "I dont think killing of dogs is a good argument David."

Perhaps you can clarify which part of my argument isn't good. Let me formalize it for you.

(1) People keep telling us that we shouldn't worry about the spread of Islam, because the spread of Islam won't affect us at all and Sharia poses no threat whatsoever.
(2) Wherever Islam spreads, we see that Muslims begin to implement Sharia and that it does affect non-Muslims, often in unacceptable ways. (The "dogs" article is an example of how the spread of Islam is affecting non-Muslims.)
(3) Hence, people are wrong when they tell us we shouldn't worry about the spread of Islam.

Where's the mistake?

Hemel said...

Okay David.Now I understand what was your actual point.Yes you were 100% right.I dont understand why westerners who are far more rich and have resources to research on do not get what the islamic objective is.And yes definitely islam will badly affect the west when it will be large in size there.Not only the west but we who live in muslim world will get affected as well.Because in my country christian are not heavily persecuted as they are well funded and supported by western churches.The government does not want to lose the foreign money by letting original islam to diminate.But if the west falls to islam ,the govt will support those muslims to persecute us.So definitely if islam grows in west in huge number the whole world will be in crisis.Hope LORD Jesus comes back before it.And sorry for criticizing the dog argument.I thought you like dogs which I dislike a lot.:P

David Wood said...

Hemel,

No problem. I figured you read my post a little too quickly, so I clarified my point.

BTW, I love dogs! My dog saved my great-grandmother's life a few years back. Awesome animals!

Kim said...

@ Search 4 Truth:
"I am so confused. How do I know what true Islam and Mohameds sunna is? Youtube, or the sahih hadith and tafsirs?

UNBELIEVABLE!"

Mhm. Ask the scholars. It's a good thing we have the internet and not just Islamophobes teaching us Islam. All you did was post hadith about an event that took place for a good reason. Read the article again.
And yeah you just gave me more evidence that rabid dogs were to be killed not random innocent ones. Thanks :)
Islam doesn't forbid us to have pets. We can keep dogs for hunting or guarding but they cant be in the house. Other pets are allowed. Surely you aren't that ignorant.

@MyTwoSense

Of course I believe in abrogation.
And also some people after studying Islam still believe weird things and propagate it to others such as the killing of dogs hah. Shows me the Islamophobic mindset of these days.


@Deleting:
I know the language I speak when i recite the Quran, I know what I'm saying. And if one doesn't know Arabic it's allowed for them to read the Quran translation in their own language.

Search 4 Truth said...

I love dogs. I have two, And yes they have saved millions of peoples lives in many ways. they are used for the blind and to detect cancer with their great sense of smell! God blessed us with dogs!

My Two Sense said...

Kim - Thank you for your response. We'll make a good debater out of you yet. Seriously, In my humble opinion you're making progress! :)

"Of course I believe in abrogation."

OK so you believe in abrogation. So some suras in the Koran cancel out other suras, correct? So in your words, which ones cancel out which ones? Do you have any examples? Do the later ones cancel out the earlier ones? How do we know (i.e.: a westerner unfamiliar with the text) which suras came first since the Koran is not written in chronological order (longest sura to shortest sura)? Do you understand how most Westerners would associate "abrogation" with "contradiction"?

"And also some people after studying Islam still believe weird things and propagate it to others such as the killing of dogs hah. Shows me the Islamophobic mindset of these days."

Define "some people": David for posting articles? People on this blog responding to articles? People who write the articles that David reposts? The Muslims who "do not understand true Islam?" All of the above? I just want to know.

Finally, "Islamophobia". The word that isn't a word. that somehow became part of our lexicon.

pho·bi·a
   [foh-bee-uh]
noun
a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.

The key to the word "phobia" is "irrational". Whether you agree with David or not and whether you agree with the articles he is posting or not, the fact remains that he is essentially saying, "don't believe me? Here's a bunch of sources where I got it from." I would conclude that's anything but "irrational". I would instead call that "rational". Therefore I would logically say, "Islamophobia" doesn't apply (and it isn't a "word" other than a overly politically correct religious and political football straw man argument).

What if I called you a "Christianophobic"? Are you irrationally afraid of Christians? Or do you feel like your criticism of Christians is justified because you can back it up?

I could just as easily say some people have "AntiIslamophobia": i.e.: An irrational fear of Islamophobes. Or "AntiIslamoCriticophobia" An irrational fear of critics of Islam. But I don't seriously think people feel that way...

Deleting said...

Kim said, 'I know the language I speak when i recite the Quran, I know what I'm saying. And if one doesn't know Arabic it's allowed for them to read the Quran translation in their own language.'

And yet I have yet to see you cite any portion of the Koran or Ahadiths in A-N-Y of your posts on ANY of the threads. All I see are youtube links.
My problem isn't whether your literate, but consistant and willing to read your own Koran and Hadiths.
So far, I'm not convinced that you do.

Deleting said...

***CORRECTION*****
I posted this before I saw "More Ahadith on Allah Punishing Jews and Christians for the Sins of Muslims"

Ladies and Gentleman, Kim actually posted a hadith!! Sahih Muslim!

It's her first hadith posting and its probably from another website (Kim you should still cite sources when you take from a website it allows for it to be cross referenced and sets the stage for rebuttal by scholars when analying the argument) but it's her first.

The upshot, however, is she didn't read the hadith but she's quoting her own muslim sources now. They....actually agree with David's assertion of substitutionary atonement.

But still, she quote from her sources....A small bit of hell just froze over...

donna60 said...

Deleting,
I don't blame Kim for not reading the Koran. It is a rough book to read. It is very hard to understand. The only thing as bad is the book of Mormon.

I read everything. Just about anything made up of letters, and my nose is in it, but the Koran is really hard to hack one's way through.

Deleting said...

I understand Donna, but ignorance is no excuse.
If she is muslim, she needs to read her koran and her hadiths. Period. The end.
Hopefully the scales will fall off her eyes and she'll see the truth. Many a person has done that with the book of Mormon and has found that things don't add up.
I'm going to continue to be hard on Kim though. I'm going to push forward because if she's going to be productive in dialogue, as she is want to do by posting here, she's going to have to come with something harder than youtube links. Youtube links are not truth much like popular consensus is not truth.
She needs to see the descrepancies in her religion. You can't get that from a youtube video. She needs to come with hard facts.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ kim

where and how did you reach that conclusion? Because Mohamed said to kill all the dogs, then he changed his mind probably after people got upset with him, and said you can keep some for hunting and guarding.

then he said you cant keep them in the house because angels are afraid of them. LOL and pictures of people. LOL.

And then i showed you where science has concluded that dog owners who keep them as pets is a benefit to your health.

A fail to see how anything i presented enforced your backward twisted ideology and commands.

Are you suffering from some neurosis? Because there is no possible way you could reach that conclusion with the evidence that was presented. Unless you are suffering from some mental disorder.

Search 4 Truth said...

From Kims source.
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/159518/killing%20of%20dogs

All black dogs are from shiatan.

Dogs are of two types: those which it is Sunnah to kill and those which are not to be killed. As for those which it is Sunnah to kill, it is the black dog because it is a devil, and the vicious dog because
it is harmful. All other dogs are not to be killed.


So all of the breeds of dogs that
are black will be slaughtered under sharia.

Are we to assume that black people are the devil as well? Because just because a dog had the misfortune to be born black under the darkness of the Islamic mindset, it's ok to kill them indiscriminately. Of course we dont know for sure what Allahs intentions are. This is just one mans subjective interpretation.

he could be totally wrong and then we find out that they slaughtered all the black dogs for his misunderstanding.

WOW I just dont know who or what to believe!


Also a question from a poor naive connedvert:

I have had a dog for 11 years and changed my religion to Islam. I know it is haram to have a dog in the house but the dog was before my change to Islam, will my prayers be excepted? Once the dog passes away I will never ever have another dog because I know now.

The long time that you have had the dog is not a justification for keeping it when the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) has forbidden us to do so and warned us of this great reduction in a person’s reward for good deeds because of that, even if it does not render one’s prayers invalid.

What a sickness Islam is for all the world! I am just disgusted and appalled how people can be so willfully ignorant! So I guess you agree with killing any dog solely based on the color of its fur. Ah Islam, so logical and rational! LOL!

curly said...

"So all of the breeds of dogs that
are black will be slaughtered under sharia."
It mean today, many many dogs must breed from black dog. Black dog, brown dog, yellow dog is exist very years ago before Mohammad born. Dogs do not have a favorite for specific dog. Dogs want to multiply baby.
Therefore, I think Muslim in Spain are interpret Quran and Hadith correctly. Bassam Zawadi is wrong!

John 8:24 said...

Kim said: "And also some people after studying Islam still believe weird things and propagate it to others such as the killing of dogs hah. Shows me the Islamophobic mindset of these days."

This is another stupid argument from you. I actually lost count by now! So are you saying that 'Islamophobes' have taught these Spanish Muslims to poison dogs??? How stupid!

The answer is an obvious 'no'. So where do these Muslims get this idea to kill the dogs? From where do they get the inspiration to do such an act? Hmmmmmm... lets guess.. could it be remotely connected to the teachings of Muhammad from the Hadiths which they might have heard from their Imams and Islamic community? Oh, well, how could that be? Sounds like an idea propagated by 'Isamophobes'! Evil thought go away! This has nothing to do with Muhammad.. this has nothing to do with Islam.. this is all an Islamophobic propaganda.. (repeat 100 times)..