Friday, September 2, 2011

Zakir Naik Exposed on Water Evaporation

Zakir Naik has built his career using a simple tactic. When he's asked a question, he rattles off a ton of references, which rarely have anything to do with the question. The Muslims in the audience trust Naik, so they usually don't bother to look up his references. If they did, they might realize that Naik is the embodiment of Muhammad's claim that "War is deceit."


Kim said...

Zakir Naik clearly at the end of the "comprehensive list" states that those verses talk about the water cycle. One of those verses mentions evaporation

And We send the winds fertilizing (to fill heavily the clouds with water), then caused the water (rain) to descend from the sky, and We gave it to you to drink, and it is not you who are the owners of its stores [i.e. to give water to whom you like or to withhold it from whom you like].

Water evaporates into the air, which then rises up and forms clouds.

simple_truth said...

Be Rational, Zakir.


Bartimaeus said...

Sound as if Zzkir is the Islamic version of Jack Van Impe.

John 8:24 said...

Kim said "One of those verses mentions evaporation 15:22
And We send the winds fertilizing (to fill heavily the clouds with water), then caused the water (rain) to descend from the sky.."


First, everything that you see in brackets is NOT in the Quran. That is the translator's (Musin Khan) addition. Here is Pickthall: 15:22 "And We send the winds fertilising, and cause water to descend from the sky, and give it you to drink.."

Second, Zakir Naik, you and other Muslims, apparently, don't seem to understand the simple concept of evaporation - and I am not surprised. Perhaps you should ask a 5th grader to explain! Evaporation is the process where liquid water is transformed into a gaseous state. It happens when the sun heats up water in rivers or lakes or the ocean and turns it into vapor or steam. The fertilizing winds mentioned in the Quran does NOT describe this process of evaporation. The Quran does NOT say how the winds are fertilized. It does NOT mention that the source of water for the fertilization of winds is the water in the rivers, lakes or oceans! It does NOT mention that liquid water turns into the gaseous state of water vapor because of Sun's heat. So no miracle here!!!

Now, knowing that nowhere in the Quran the water cycle is mentioned are you going to stop claiming this Quranic "miracle"? Or are you going to continue deceiving Muslims and non-Muslims with lies and false claims?

donna60 said...

Kim, Sweetheart, could you please find the scientific source that states that wind causes clouds? That isn't what I learned in school. Clouds are caused by evaporation of water, which is caused by the heat of the earth from the sun.

If you have a different science book that says that clouds are caused by wind, perhaps you could reference it, so we can all look it up. Muhammad, in these verses (7:57; 15:22 30:48) states that clouds are caused by wind.

Ten of these verses weren't about the water cycle at all. Did you know?

Fernando said...

Hi Kim... did you not run awaie after your totall banrupcie in a previous thread? are you reallie willing to continue down the same pathe?

where is the sligtest scientific evidence to:

a) the winds put more watter in the cloudes?
b) the winds make water descend from cloudes?

and where is in qur'an 15:22 the slightest evidence to the evaporation off watter thate occures due to action off the sun?

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Kim. You are evidence that the Muslim mind sees and accepts what they want. There is nothing in that verse that is even the slightest description of evaporation. In fact this is completely inaccurate as to what elementary school students know!

Surely Allah is smarter than elementary school students. Thanks for exposing how ignorant Islams Allah truly is!

CristoTeAma said...

15:22 sounds like muhammad believed that the clouds are made by winds, like the winds concentrate and create the clouds, the problem is that it is not TRUE. I dont see how muslims say this verse explain the evaporation, i wonder if they even know what evaporation is. Nowhere in that verse it is said what is in those winds so they can create clouds, because even when winds do not create clouds, if the verse would say something like "and the winds filled with water from the sea, fertillize the clouds" i could actually believe that somehow it is trying to explain evaporation but thats not the case, unless you read those quran versions where they put words on allah's mouth trying to link it to modern science hehe.

Kim said...

The translator is giving the best explanation of what the verse means. I got it from Dr. Mohsin translation.

Read the verse carefully. Fertilizing winds that fill the clouds with water. Interesting. Why are the winds considered fertilizing? The wind/air will get it's water from the trees, ground, any open area with water on it's surface for evaporation/transpiration and that water will reach the clouds and "fertilize them" with this added water, which fills them up and once the clouds can bare no more water, it's going to rain.

15:22 Is an amazing verse. Easy to understand.

Deleting said...

Kim the reference describes rain, not evaporation.
You referenced something coming down from the 'heavens' to the earth, not going from the earth into the heavens which is what evaporation is.
Or you can just renounce islam. I mean, for a book that is 'sent down' and absolutely clear, you sure got a lot of tasfirs and muslim commentators interpreting the koran. Pretty sad, don't you think?

curly said...

It is same in Old Testament. It said heaven send the rain, too. I guess Old Testament have another miracle!

Kim said...

Taqiyaa, deceit, and such.

Hazakim1 said...

I'm not really into trying to prove God's Word by "scientific means" due to the fact that there are so many other convincing proofs of the Bible....but I will tell you this: If this is the Koran's BEST "scientific proof" text, this is pretty sad.

The sun setting in a murky pool of water is obvious nonesense, as is the claim that shooting stars are 'devil popping' missils. Granting that langauge conventions were different in 7th century Arabia, I am willing to give some concessions but winds do not cause evaporation. At best, the verse states the obvious: That winds blow clouds overhead which then pour rain upon the ground.

The Bible contains 2 verses that could more easily be seen as describing evaporation. No brackets or parentheses needed.

"All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full; to the place from which the rivers come, there they return again" Eccl 1:7

""For He draws up drops of water, which distill as rain from the mist, which the clouds drop down and pour abundantly on man." Job 36:27-28

I doubt that the purpose of these Biblical authors was to "describe evaporation", yet the idea of water beingg "drawn up" and "returning from which it came" is more miraculous than stating that winds carry clouds.

Truth said...





4 )

Truth said...

zakir naik is true follower of mohammad. both are almost same. more they speak more they both get trapped. still muslims praises them.
ha ha ha ha............

Truth said...

and please watch a video of CHRISTIAN PRINCE. i changed the name of the video, gave a new and very interesting name and posted that in my account. And i think this video will be the most viewed video one day.

AND PLEASE READ THE COMMENTS. THANKS to you all people. And hey brother David..... you Nabeel all your team please watch together and and read the comments together. the quranic verses i posted there are mostly taken from your posts, Sam Shamoun's articles and from videos of CHRISTIAN PRINCE.

but those are not your words those are verses from Quran. so nobody can blame us.

and know onething ? some people think that is my voice in the video not of CHRISTIAN PRINCE and the viewrers sends me messages - YOUR LAUGH IS SO ANNOYING, or YOUR STUPID LAUGH DESTROYED THE SPEAKER OF MY LAPTOP.

ha ha ha ha..............

donna60 said...

Kim, Sugar, the wind doesn't have anything at all to do with evaporation or the formation of clouds. Evaporation is caused by heat, and rain is caused when the cloud, which is vaporized h2o cools in the atmosphere.

You can do this little experiment at your kitchen stove, which is an experiment I did with my sons when I was home-schooling them back in the day.

Set one pan of water on a stove burner and bring to a boil. Slowly, as the heat increases, the water vapor leaves the boiling pan and raises upwards. Then as the pan of water is vaporizing, take another metal pan and fill it with ice, and hold it above the vapor. The vapor will land on the bottom of the cold pan, the vapor will convert back to liquid, and drip back down into the boiling pan underneath.

That is the same way we get clouds and rain. Heating and cooling. There is no wind involved.

I realize that not everyone needs to be scientific nerds. There is a place for artists and poets in this world too. But wouldn't you like to be a little scientific savvy?

Deleting said...

I don't want to say mean things to do. I really don't.
Having said that, your argument is idiotic at best.
'Fertailizing winds' is rain COMING DOWN!!!!!
You need to find a proof text in the koran. Let me help you out: there is none.
I'm not calling you stupid because I've never met you and you probably are more passionate about defending islam than anything else.
But your posts don't really add anything of value to the conversation. They certainly don't help islam or other people's perception of how intelligent you are.
If I were considering seriously considering islam as my religion and read your comments with the other posters replies to you not only would I not think that much of you but I would have more reservations about a relgion that would help 'my soul' than I would see any benefits to it.
I know the real reason you came on this site. It's not hard to look at the other threads and where you fall in the queue of comments.
But instead of leading the charge to defend islam maybe you should hang back a day or two and see what the other comments say so you can address it appropriately.

CristoTeAma said...

If sura 15:22 explains evaporation i wonder how muslims can deal with job 36:27-28, which is more than 1000 yrs earlier than muhammad and is way closer to evaporation than 15:22. Do muslims believe in islam for these claims?

John 8:24 said...


Seriously, what is your level of education? Are you a kid? Did you pass high school? You apparently did not understand evaporation. So I explained it to you clearly. And I explained why the verse does NOT describe this process of evaporation. Which part do you not understand?

Kim said: "The translator is giving the best explanation of what the verse means. I got it from Dr. Mohsin translation."

I know that you are using Musin Khan's explanation (and NOT translation) and I already pointed that out to you. So you accept that it is NOT in the Quran but a modern translator's explanation of the verse. I know Muslims are desperate to prove miracles in the Quran and hide mistakes and bad portions. Therefore they produce disingenuous translations and insert verses with their "best" explanations to make Allah look good and cover up Allah's mistakes and mention things Allah forgot to mention. In this case, even if one takes your translator's "best" explanation to prove this miracle - it still does not work!

Kim said: "Read the verse carefully."

Reading it carefully does not change the content. Even if you read it a thousand times it does not magically provide you with the missing portions!

Kim said: "Why are the winds considered fertilizing?"

Good question, but where is the answer mentioned in the Quran? How come the all knowing Allah missed to mention the answer? Surely, Allah must know that this to be a miracle he must clearly provide the missing information.

Kim said: "The wind/air will get it's water from the trees, ground, any open area with water on it's surface for evaporation/transpiration and that water will reach the clouds and "fertilize them" with this added water, which fills them up and once the clouds can bare no more water, it's going to rain."

Now this is just your vivid imagination. You are describing evaporation but it is NOT in the Quran. So you are guessing the most important missing part of process of evaporation in the Quran - where does the water in the clouds come from. These are how all the "miracles" of the Quran are generated!

Once again, the Quran does NOT say how the winds are fertilized. It does NOT mention that the source of water for the fertilization of winds is the water in the rivers, lakes or oceans. It does NOT mention that liquid water turns into the gaseous state of water vapor because of Sun's heat. So no miracle here!!!

So now, knowing that nowhere in the Quran the water cycle is mentioned, are you going to stop claiming this Quranic "miracle"? Or are you going to continue deceiving Muslims and non-Muslims with lies and false claims?

curly said...

I think 15:22 does explain very obscure about evaporate. I am take a look at website with many translators from the website.

I gave you 3 translators who is muslim and 2 translators who is not muslim. No question, the translators can be biased! I start the First 3 translators who is Muslim:

We send the winds to fertilize, and We bring down water from the sky for you to drink- you do not control its sources. (Abdel Haleem)

And We sent the winds/breezes (as) pollinators , so We descended from the sky water, so We gave it to you to drink, and you are not for it with storing. (Ahmed Ali)

And We let loose the winds to fertilize [plants] and We send down water from the skies and let you drink thereof: and it is not you who dispose of its source (Muhammad Asad)

then 2 non muslim translators:

And We send forth the fertilising winds, and cause the rain to come down from the heaven, and give you to drink of it; and it is not ye who are its storers (John Medows Rodwell)

And We loose the winds fertilising, and We send down out of heaven water, then We give it to you to drink, and you are not its treasurers. (Arthur John Arberry.

I did read all translators which I gave you a link. I think the 15:22 is very very very obscure prove to the evaporation. Although, this verse is explain very clearly about rain even can drink the water!

Deleting said...

This is going slightly off topic, please skip this post if you're intent on following the current conversation.

I've been a smoker for nine years. Christ save me, first at the cross, then by John 6:44 which says no one can come to God except those who he has drawn in.
I was one of those people a year and a half ago. Before this I was a 'bubblegum Christian’ but ll paths lead to God was pretty much my creed.
I had horrible daymares and visions. I messed with witchcraft which only made it worse.
I was exactly where Kim is right now, denying christ out of ignorance.
I lost nearly everything: sanity, money, career, health.
I decided God wanted a payoff so I was going to take a chunk of what was left of my savings and put it in the offering plate of a church and tell God 'take your money and leave me the &*^$# alone.'
FYI-The offering plate’s passed after the sermon. Let that be a lesson to ya!
I'll never forget the priest's closing comments when Jesus was confronting the pharisees 'You see. They were denying God to God.'
The next week I talked to the priest. Do you know he is the only person I can remember that told me Jesus is God???? I thought he was a quack,
Putting things on fast forward God is dealing heavily with my heart drawing me to church, to bible study, and eventually baptism.
But August 2009 I was better but still struggling. I asked Jesus why.
That night I had dream of sitting in bible study and one of the little old ladies turned to me and said 'Young Lady I want those cigarettes!'
A year later and....I still have them.
I've cut drastically back on them but I can't walk away.
But posting on this blog, on this thread has opened my eyes to something. Something I never really understood before.
I said a prayer asking God to help deliver me from the cravings. I cut up all my cigarettes last night and tossed the lighters.
I've had six cigarettes so far today.
But determined to try to stop again I dug out my bible from my backpack and flipped through ephesians 4:30-31 'Do not vex the holy spirit by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (31) Let all bitterness and indignation and wrath and resentment and quarrelling and slander be banished from you with all malice.
Ephesians 5:12 says For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood but with spiritual forces in the heavenly realms.
I'd read those words before but realized something when I posted my second response to Kim: I was agitated with her. I get agitated a lot with muslims when i respond to a smart aleck comment they make back to me. I can give as good as I get and even better when it comes to rudeness.
And I have to have another cigarette.
We're to imitate Christ. I haven't mastered controlling my emotions completely and when I do that, I step away from the holy spirit (in other words God) and expect him to take away the cravings for a cigarette. He's not obligated to do that if I'm going to go my own way and not go his.
Because of this I need to step back from responding to other muslims simply because I can’t control my emotions and hold my tongue.
Kim...I'll pray for you. I don't know what led you to islam and I'm not going to speculate as to why. You probably say you’re a former Christian. You're not. I can say that because we know our own. I went wandering. I fought for my false beliefs and I was wrong.
So are you.
You threw out a challenge to David to show you the errors in Islam and you'll convert.
Got a better challenge: ask God to show you the errors in Islam. See what happens.

John 8:24 said...

Yes, CristoTeAma, you are right.

Here are the verses:

Job 36:27-28

27 For He draws up drops of water,
Which distill as rain from the mist,

28 Which the clouds drop down
And pour abundantly on man.

Kim said...

Well if a blog has a comments section I guess I have some right to comment if I'm respectful and not too annoying. I think I'm doing a good job trying to show my pov. I find the Quran to be miraculous in its nature =).

taomeano said...

Hi Kim
I see that a lot of people on this blog are trying to tell you that you are wrong about the verse you think speaks about evaporation. I know you are sincere in your assertions, but you are sincerely wrong to think that winds cause evaporation. I see and know a lot of moslems who are sincere, but they are all sincerely wrong. Please for eternity sake, have an open mind and sincerely look at the claims of Islam versus the claims of christianity, Islam does not even come close to christianity. Jesus Christ is so superior to Muhammad, they are incomparable. So Kim please open your mind and your heart and ask the true living God to show you the truth. Your eternal soul is hanging in the balance.

Kim said...

Ok. Give me your best argument for accepting Christianity.

curly said...

I suggest you to just leave Kim alone and do still treat her like sister. I saw you all explain her. I also remember you all to try explain her in Muhammad's flat earth and few more subjects before.
Fact, this topic, 15:22, is does NOT explain about evaporation very clearly to you all even me.
Kim seems stubborn? too pride? do not want leave Islam because friend? or what? I do not have a clue about her. To reminding you, Remember Jesus said "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. Leave them; they are blind guides.If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” Matthew 15:14

David Wood said...

Here's mine:

Jesus rose from the dead. If I'm going to listen to anyone concerning God, heaven, hell, etc., I'm going to listen to someone who rose from the dead (because such a person obviously has God's stamp of approval). So I'm going to listen to Jesus. Jesus claimed to be the sacrifice for my sins, the Risen Lord, and the only Way to the Father. Hence, I must believe that Jesus is the sacrifice for my sins, the Risen Lord, and the only Way to the Father. Since believing these things makes one a Christian, I am a Christian.

Now what's your best argument for Islam? (I assume it has nothing to do with evaporation.)

Kim said...

Nice point David. Rising from the dead is a miracle indeed. If you can show me without a shadow of a doubt that he did rise from the dead and claimed that He is God or God's son i'll be a Christian in no time.

But how can you prove that?

As far as Islam goes it's perfect Sharia system, the Quran itself being a miracle in many ways, and also from the hadiths of Bukhari and Muslim describing the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, his miracles, his character, prophecies etc are truly too amazing for me to reject :).

Deleting said...

Oh...I can answer this one.
Jesus didn't just rise from the dead.
He told his disciples it would happen that he would be handled over, suffer and be killed an on the third day rise again.
Second, Elohim is a plural noun.
Third, over 1000 years worth of writing by the old testament writers who didn't know each other (with the exception of Ezekiel and Daniel I think they did know each other or knew of each other) and sometimes lived decades apart of each other and all talk of the messiah, the first coming and the second coming.
All first coming prophecies were fulfilled completely by Jesus.
Third, the appearances of pre-incarnate Jesus. Almost every one of the men asked him what his name was and the 'angel of the lord' would said 'why do you ask my name?"
They almost said in union 'I/we will surely die for we have seen the face of God'.
Fourth Numbers Chapter 22 to 24 all three persons of YHWH are interacting with Balaam.
Five-the 'angel of the lord' accepted sacrifices to himself, gave prophecy and accepted worship.
six-the angel of the lord is speaking to Isaiah. When he says 'I saw the lord high and lofty upon his throne'. That's Jesus.
Seven-the jews were excellent record keepers and preserved everything. Paper doesn't last forever so they would copy everything down. If they made a mistake they'd burn the scroll and start over again.
Keep in mind Isaiah is the longest book in the old testament. Could you imagine making a mistake on chapter 40 and having to start over again? Yikes!
And last of all eight-The dead sea scrolls. The entire book of Isaiah was found in its entirely. The hebrew, when translated, matches what the jews have in the jewish bible and what we have today in our bible.
And it dates back to the year 200 bc.
Last of all-the diction, speech and-dare i say humor-of the angel of the lord in the old testament matches Jesus's speech.

Deleting said... last thing and I promise I'm done.
The peace! I had such peace and it was wild! I was unemployed, broke and yet my soul was at ease.
And I had a hunger to read the bible. It was like nothing I'd ever felt before.
Instead of watching soap operas or trying to look for illegal movies uploaded on youtube I wanted to watch christian television and search youtube for sermons and anything i could get my hands or browser on to learn more about the bible verses I was reading.
Its also how I found Dr. James White's website, Heart of the matter which is a christian program reaching out to mormons, and Jesus or Muhammad.
Without any sort of external sources-only the holy spirit-I found channels on youtube for KeithTruth, DrOakley1689, acts17apologetics, ABNSAT and of course Ceeker248 (love your stuff CL Edwards!!)
This was not me two years ago. It is me now. No one except God guided me to these places on the web or to the church I go to now. He changed me. He is changing me and will continue to do so.
Odd still, I always thought I'd have to change myself before going to church or seeking out a relationship with God. I thought I'd have to quit smoking or buy better clothes so I could be acceptable. I thought I'd have to stop swearing (which was pretty heavy then and oddly enough I don't say them as often now or at all if I can help it.)
But God didn't care about that. He acceped me as I was. I couldn't change myself if I tried and now I'm being changed.
Kim I'm sorry you're missing it. I really am. Maybe one day you'll want peace, assurance of salvation and a relationship with YHWH and you'll say what many many former muslims/Mormons/Jehovah's witnesses have said 'God of Abraham Issac and Jacob, I don't believe Deleting, and I don't believe David Wood or anyone else but if your real and I'm going the wrong way show me.'
I have yet to hear of anyone who hasn't recieved an answer from him when they're sincere.

David Wood said...

Wow. Look at what you just said, Kim.

"If you can show me without a shadow of a doubt that he did rise from the dead and claimed that He is God or God's son i'll be a Christian in no time."

Beyond a shadow of a doubt? You demand absolute certainty? This is what I've noticed from virtually every Muslim I've ever known. When Christianity is being discussed, nothing can be believed without absolute, mathematical certainty. But we turn to Islam, and suddenly vague claims and foggy assertions are quite enough.

Before we discuss our proof for Christianity, let's examine your claims about Islam. You've already said that you only accept a religion when its claims are established beyond a "shadow of a doubt." So you believe in Islam due to absolutely certain proof, right?

Your evidence for Islam runs as follows:

(1) "As far as Islam goes it's perfect Sharia system . . ."

So beating women into submission is part of a "perfect" system? Stoning adulterers, killing apostates, executing homosexuals, chopping hands off thieves, and so on, is "perfect," right? Under Sharia, a woman's testimony is worth half a man's testimony, because women are (according to Muhammad) intellectually deficient. Non-Muslims are to be killed or subjugated. You're telling us that all of this is perfect? Can you show us beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's perfect?

(2) ". . . the Quran itself being a miracle in many ways . . ."

Please give us your best example of the Qur'an's miraculous nature (one that convinced you beyond a "shadow of a doubt").

(3) "and also from the hadiths of Bukhari and Muslim describing the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, his miracles, his character, prophecies etc are truly too amazing for me to reject :)."

Give us some examples of Muhammad's teachings, miracles, character, and prophecies that were proven to you beyond a "shadow of a doubt." We study the Islamic sources every day, and all we ever find is evidence that Muhammad was a false prophet. When we examine his character, we are repulsed when we learn that he tortured people for money, had sex with his slave girls, had sex with a nine-year-old girl, etc. We find no fulfilled prophecies, and no evidence of miracles.

So where is the certainty that you demand? The fact is, you can't prove beyond a "shadow of a doubt" that Muhammad even existed.

This raises another question. Why are you inconsistent? Why does your methodology change when you turn from Islam to Christianity? Could it be that, if you applied a consistent methodology, you'd have to abandon Islam, and therefore you're forced to be inconsistent?

donna60 said...

Kim, if you want to know my best argument for being a Christian, then this is my best. I needed a Hero!

If you review the story of Eve in the bible, you can remember that there was enmity between the woman and the serpent. But God promised Eve that one day, her Seed would crush the head of the Serpent.

The New Testament teaches us that Jesus was her Seed, who crushed the head of Satan, and that Jesus gives all of His people to power to crush Satan under their feet.

It goes without saying, that this Hero, who was born of a woman, saves women's souls. The price of grace wasn't free. It required the sacrifice of God's Son. The writings of Moses made it very clear, that the wages of sin was death.

But Christian women came to enjoy another blessing from her Redeemer, and that is, she enjoyed love, like hadn't been experienced since the garden of Eden.

The only covenant that demands monogamy from men, is the religion of our Redeemer, the Lover of our souls! We women are desperate for it, and under the law of Moses, we ached to be loved faithfully, and we need to be loved most when we sometimes don't "deserve" to be loved at all.

Men who have their minds set on pleasing Jesus, bear the commandments of the NT--the commandments that no other religion found on earth binds men to.

Ephesians 5:25-28
25 For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her 26 to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God’s word.[a] 27 He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault. 28 In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man who loves his wife actually shows love for himself

1 Corinthians 7:2
But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

curly said...

I give you one of some reasons I accept Jesus is God.
One, Jewish is well known for hardhead and stubborn. Jesus's disciple is Jewish. The resurrection of Jesus change his disciples dynamicly. 11 disciples willing to preach for Jesus and most are subject to persecute and martyr like the slaughter of sheep because they saw the resurrection of Jesus in their own eyes.

Kim said...

David, what in the world are you studying? Robert Spencer's work? I'll show you examples late today.

Kim said...

If I wanted to be a Christian, then I'd have to believe with certainty that Jesus Died and resurrected for my sins, otherwise what's the point in converting to a religion that has doubt?

CristoTeAma said...

It's interesting Kim ask proof "without a shadow of doubt" when the very verse she has been trying to push at the highest level so it can fit the evaporation is under a huge shadow of doubt. About why Jesus Christ our LORD and SAVIOUR and no other ( Muhammad, Buddah, Krishna) because Jesus is the only one who actually dies for his own cretures, the only one who humble himself for love of unfaithful sinners, the one who brings a message that actually appear to come from Abraham's god, the one who tries to take us to the original plan YHWH had with us back in Eden (like 1 eve and not 4, no express devorce, no killing, no revenge, to love each other, etc etc) Muslims usually say that Jesus being god doesn't have any logic, but when you actually apply logic to his porpose and claims you realize that all the logic is in his teachings, because he brought us the final covenant, the closest to YHWH original plan, before the sin entered into the world. He is the only qualyfied to be our savior, he teaches and he gives the example, he doesn't preach something that he later is gonna break, he perfomed real miracles while he was alive and when he resurrected, demons had to beg him for mercy (no demon could bewitch him as Muhamamd was, and no demon could even try to strangle him), satan couldn't deceive him (as Muhammad was), his prophecies were and are still being fulfilled (Muhamamd is one of those, as a false prophet deceiving ppl), and now he is your KING too even if you accept him, because when he comes it won't matter your religion, he will Judge you and unless you accept that only his sacrifice can clean you from your sins which you can't never pay trought your own works you will be cast into hell. Salvation doesn't come in a religion, it comes in a real faith to the true God, and the god of Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, etc, is the one who is giving you this chance to repent and believe. Or you can try to reach heaven throught your inquisitor system called Sharia, and hope for the best, that Allah is not deceiving you as he "deceived" we all to create the "false" religion called christianity.
You have to reborn in sppirit if you wanna be saved that's what Jesus taught and i hope you can do that before the end wheater he comes or you die.

Fernando said...

Kim saide: "perfect Sharia system, the Quran itself being a miracle in many ways"...

dear Kim, poor soul, are you really implying that sharia, that barbarica legal code, is a perfect systeme? really? is that your measure of perfection?

more: can you present, as you basked doctor Wood to do, any proof that the qur'an is miracoulous in ANY way?

Deleting said...

Look at the second epistle of Peter.
He was there with Jesus. He ate with him after the resurrection. He heard the rfather's voice on the mount of transfiguration.
Keep in mind Peter was crucified upside down for his faith. Jesus told him it was going to happen at tghe end of the gospel of john.

mkvine said...


Baron Eddie said...

That is wonderful ... water evaporate ... all this talk about water evaporation ... let us look at bottom line, what Quran teach? ... where is love? ... compare that to ...

"1Th 4:9 But concerning brotherly love you have no need that I should write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another;"

Kim ... don't let your soul evaporate to the wrong place ...

volanj said...

I hope I will not offend anyone in this tread by what I am going to say; this is not my intention.

In the USSR, where I was born, religion was considered “the opiate for the masses”, so I was brought in a non-religious family like most of the Soviet people born after the Second World War. I considered Jesus a historical figure, even thought the authorities tried to disprove his existence altogether. When I read the New Testament in my late teens for the first time, I was really moved by the words of Jesus Christ – there was so much love, truth, and peace in his words! I did not care whether Jesus was the son of God or whether he performed miracles - his words and his character mattered the most. The evangelical story comes to the end with pictures of the Holy Week, the arrest, the court, and the crucifixion of Jesus, and I don’t know anything equal the force of the influence these pages had on me. I did not become a Christian, even though Jesus Christ alwayas has a special place in my heart. I do believe that if there were a person, who had a direct and special relationship to God and with God and who would die on the cross for the other people’s sins, that person is Jesus.

After 9/11 attacks I got interested in Islam and started reading Muhmmad’s biography written by early musulims to first understand the prophet of Islam because I think one can understand religion through its prophets. After reading his biography I found that Mohammed was undeniably a violent and a cruel warrior and a wise politician, who assassinated those who dared to criticize him, and he pillaged, raped captured women, had sex with a child, deceived, traded slaves, etc. This was a little hard to swallow. So I conclude that Mohammed is absolutely not worthy of the title and he is nothing but a false prophet. The holy book of Islam – Koran - says Mohammed is a perfect example for all Muslims to follow, and it means that a religion glorifying a false prophet is a false religion.

So, no matter how many “scientific proofs” are there in the Koran (if any), this religion is still a false religion and a lie.

donna60 said...

Kim, your demands are reasonable

I've learned to love the demands of Christianity, and I have even learned to love people, that when I was younger, I considered impossible to love. More to the point you make the same argument that Paul does.

1 Corinthians 15:16-20
16 And if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is useless and you are still guilty of your sins. 18 In that case, all who have died believing in Christ are lost! 19 And if our hope in Christ is only for this life, we are more to be pitied than anyone in the world.

What kind of evidence are you looking for? How can we help?--Seriously!

Hazakim1 said...

My best arguement? Jesus fuflilled prophecies concerning his: lineage, place of birth, ministry of miracles, death & resurrection, destiny to be a "light to the gentiles" (non Jews) who were once in darkness and to one day redeem Israel (which we are seeing the beginnings of as Jews by the thousands are putting their faith in him)...

Not to mention Jesus accurately predicted: His own death & resurrection, the persecution of his saints, the destruction of Herod's Temple which occured in 70 AD, the "last days" - specifically mentioining many of the signs & events we see today...

His disciples wrote gospels & epistles which also accurately predict future events

Without swinging a sword or amassing an army - having never traveled even 200 miles past the place of his birth - having been a lowly carpenter and rabbi, he has changed and saved more lives than any other man. Pagan gentiles who worshipped statues, trees, dead ancestors and celestial bodies, now worship the true God (YHWH) through him & because of him.

Lastly, he saved me from my sins and gave me his Spirit to help me walk in his ways. When I was young he comforted me when I was paralysed with fear - appearing in brilliant light, exuding more love and wisdom than I can express - and telling me (in a voice more powerful than thunder yet sweeter than honey) not to be afraid and that he is always with me. Proof?

Even without the "supernatural" experience, I have enough to make a rational decision to follow my blessed, risen King. What more do I need Kim? What more do you need?

Hazakim1 said...


Lastly I will provide you with these wise words from the risen Master. If you are sincere in your quest for truth (and not just bent on defending your personal status quo), these words will come alive in you:

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf [of bread], will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!?"

He goes on to admonish you, Kim, to enter the narrow gate of truth which is not always easy:

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."

We all would encourage you to enter the narrow gate of truth, aka Jesus the Messiah! The truth will set you free! Read Matthew chapters 5-7 for more details. Shalom...

taomeano said...

Hi Kim
As you can see everyone on this blog is trying to help you come to the knowledge of the truth. I believe everyone here sincerely cares about you and desperately would like to see you embrace Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and savior. You asked us to give you a compeling reason to become a christian. The most compeling reason in my view is JESUS CHRIST himself. In Islam you do not have a personal relationship with Muhammad but in christianity you have a personal relationship with the LORD JESUS CHRIST. See Matthew 7:21-23. Take the time to read these verses and have an open mind and heart and please be sincere about your quest for the truth. I said it before and I will say it again, your eternal soul is hanging in the balance. The choice you make between Jesus and Islam will determine where you will spend eternity. Jesus spoke a lot about eternity e.g John 14 1-6.
Kim, my heart truly aches for you because you are so close and yet so far, so close because you are hearing from believers in Jesus who desire that you open your heart to him, and yet so far, because you are stubbornly holding on to something that just does not guarantee you anything concerning eternity. Kim apart from the spiritual reasons for which we desire that you come to know Jesus, Muhammad is just not a good moral example as a prophet for you to emulate. Find me anything, any document of history and now that questions the moral authority of the LORD JESUS CHRIST. You will find zilch, nada, nothing. I have always wondered why intelligent people like you and many others simply cannot see that Islam is a false religion? As I pondered about that question, I found a scripture in the bible that says that " But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age(satan)has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 2 Corinthians 4,3-4.
Kim I pray that these verses are not describing you. I plead with you to accept Jesus Christ and be saved so that your sins may be forgiven you.

curly said...

Your testimony is wow. I want to ask you one question if you cant mind.
You said "...I got interested in Islam and started reading Muhmmad’s biography written by early musulims..." What name of book you read about Muhammad's biography by early muslim? and what author's name?
Thank you so much

curly said...

@Hazakim1 and everyone,
"When I was young he comforted me when I was paralysed with fear - appearing in brilliant light, exuding more love and wisdom than I can express - and telling me (in a voice more powerful than thunder yet sweeter than honey) not to be afraid and that he is always with me" are you serious?!?! It is awesome! I am very honor to listen your testimony. Your experience is similiar to mine! I like to share.
During 2004 Summer, I was in retreat. I was desire to worship in God's presence. On the late evening, I withdraw my friends and people and walk to the large lake. I danced and worship for about 20 minutes. Immediately, I saw the vision- cross like the Irelandic cross. I though I was high or something wrong with my mind. I test myself very few times like clap lightly my cheek, rub my eyes, etc. I convinced myself that I really see the vision. I watch the cross beautifully for very short awhile. Immediately, the moon move toward little faster to the cross. When the moon passed the cross, it become so shine and bright. Funny, i though it would be rapture (that time I was believed in rapture). It was bright in 2 to 4 seconds, then it is disappear immediately and return normally. After that, I start to wonder about myself because everything deny the law of nature like moon move faster. Next day, I start to accept myself that I did really see the vision than denied myself.
Now, I am looking back the supernautral experince. I think it did build my faith in Jesus Christ stronger. Actually, it cure my doubt for Jesus Christ.

curly said...

I am just want to inform you that Satan and demon can doing good too. No question, Satan and demon cause harm too. I start to read Quran little by little. Now I am on chapter 4. I heard many times that Muslim emphasized the miracle in Quran like big bang, embryo, evaporate like what you say. People who disagree them claimed Quran explain very obscurely. So, someone show me a sura about big bang, I read it. Recently evaporation subject which we discussed, I read a sura. I think both sura apply them obscurely. I have two so far but I know there are more than 2 science in Quran. Anyway, If it is true and there are some science in Quran THAN big bang and evaporation, it can come from Satan and demon. Remember Satan is very intelligent because he live here for long time since God create him. Satan who cause many many religions that confuse and fool people. I am sure Imam teach you that Satan deceived people from truth.
why satan and demon do very good? They want you to distract from the truth which Is Jesus Christ. So, I am just want to inform you that all. It is up to you and just take your time so easily.

volanj said...

@ curly,
Thanks :) Ibn Ishaq was the earliest of Islam's historians. He collected oral traditions about the life of Muhammad that formed the basis of biography of Muhammad. This work has perished, but the copies made by Ibn Hisham survived. Hisham honestly admitted that he cut some parts about Muhammad others might find offensive.

The English-language translation of ibn Ishaq/Ibn Hisham was done by Alfred Guillaume; it is called “Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah.” This book is not a light reading though.

volanj said...

@ curly,
I also read “The Life of Mahomet” by Sir William Muir, Esq., (Smith, Elder, & Co., London, 1861). You can find the online version here

curly said...

Thank you so much for responding. I want ask you because you read the biography of Mohammad. Few of my friends, who all raise and live in American, claimed Islam is the religion of peace and self-defense. They did read the biography of Mohammad. I am wondering where they learn from. it is little bother me. Since 3 months, I listen from Imam, read Quran little by little, and research at the online. It seems to me the identify of Prophet Muhammad is LOST! Moreover, Shia and Sunni start to divide 25 years later after the death of Muhammad. So, Shia claimed Muhammad is educate. Sunni claimed Muhammad is illerate. Strangely, Muhammad is prophet for 23 years!!! it is impossible to forget who Muhammad is. Which one is true? That why I suspect the identify of Prophet Muhammad is LOST. So, Thank you so much for answer.

That why I want ask you.

donna60 said...


Are you getting any medical help with stopping smoking? The reason is, that stopping is really hard. I've heard that Chantix by Pfizer helps, although some of the adverse effects are pretty bad, and not everyone can use it. I would try Chantix or at least use patches, if I had to quit.

I had a friend who tried for years and just couldn't do it; so get some medical help. You don't want to be pregnant, and have to stop cold turkey at the same time you are vomiting with morning sickness every day.

JIGSTA said...

For any Muslim who thinks "Mohammed" is perfect so called prophet & everyone should follow in his "Peaceful" footsteps has only to compare him to Jesus Christ & honestly say the truth on who is the most peaceful, loving & non-violent way of life to follow!! @Kim: Try this as a start...

If that doesnt get your brain thinking into actually finding the truth then the devil has already got u under his spell & i can only pray you will be blessed & be saved asap!! Peace my sister!