Monday, May 2, 2011

Terry Jones and Dearborn: Two Sides of the Same Street

23 comments:

Radical Moderate said...

Amen, very well said, loved the puppet theater.

Fisher said...

This is why I have chosen not to side with either Jones or the people of Dearborn.

Were you there, David? Who was taking that video footage?

Fisher said...

Oh wait, disregard my previous question. I know who took that footage. Heheheheh... :P

Radical Moderate said...

Oh man, when I first watched it, I turned it off when it got to the Acts17 music.

Nice little easter egg at the end.

Stormbringer said...

The mindless rabble expresses their "disagreement" with high volume, imprecations and profanities. Really convincing that they are in the right, aren't they?

Animals.

I have heard and read where unbelievers will complain at Christians over real and (especially) imagined charges that "you are not a good Christian; if you were a good Christian by my own personal standards, I would be more inclined to listen to you", and similar nonsense. Does anyone say to the Mohammedans, "You are not a good Muslim, you are an embarrassment to Allah" or similar? No? Seems to be an interesting double standard. But then, Christians are used to being on the receiving end of double standards.

Bartimaeus said...

Excellent David

You were right on.

Paul Baird said...

@ Storm

"Does anyone say to the Mohammedans, "You are not a good Muslim, you are an embarrassment to Allah" or similar? No? Seems to be an interesting double standard. But then, Christians are used to being on the receiving end of double standards."

Yes they do actually.

"Muslim leader to condemn terrorists

The leader of a worldwide Muslim movement with thousands of followers in the UK is due to issue a fatwa - or Islamic religious ruling - condemning terrorism and warning suicide bombers that they are "destined for hell".

Pakistan-born Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri, founder of the global Minhaj-ul-Quran movement, will make the formal UK proclamation of a fatwa, or religious edict, condemning terrorism and suicide bombing at a news conference in London.

The 600-page fatwa announces that "suicide bombings and attacks against civilian targets are not only condemned by Islam, but render the perpetrators totally out of the fold of Islam, in other words, to be unbelievers".

Shahid Mursaleen, spokesman for Minhaj-ul-Quran UK, said: "He has hit hard on the terrorists as it prevents Islamists from considering suicide bombers as 'martyrs'. This fatwa injects doubt into the minds of potential suicide bombers.

"Extremist groups based in Britain recruit youth by brainwashing them that they will 'with certainty' be rewarded in the next life and Dr Qadri's fatwa has removed this key intellectual factor from their minds."

The fatwa has been billed as "arguably the most comprehensive" theological refutation of Islamic terrorism to date by counter extremism think tank the Quilliam foundation.

A Quilliam spokesman said: "Terrorist groups such as al Qaida continue to justify their mass killings with self-serving readings of religious scripture.

"Fatwas that demolish and expose such theological innovations will consign Islamist terrorism to the dustbin of history."

The Minhaj-ul-Quaran movement runs courses in combating religious extremism in educational centres throughout Britain including London, Birmingham, Manchester, Nelson, Walsall, Glasgow and Dundee.

A fatwa, an edict issued by a learned Muslim scholar, may concern any aspect of Islamic life. The term became famous in the western world in 1989 after the author Salman Rushdie was forced into hiding following a "death fatwa" issued by Ayatollah Khomeni, then Supreme Leader of Iran, on the grounds that his book, the Satanic Verses had "insulted" Islam."

Source http://www.luton-dunstable.co.uk/News/Muslim-leader-to-condemn-terrorists-14582.xnf

Paul Baird said...

@ Storm (2)

"But then, a year ago, I began to hear about a fragile new movement that could just hold the answers we journalists have failed to find up to now. A wave of young British Islamists who trained to fight – who cheered as their friends bombed this country – have recanted. Now they are using everything they learned on the inside, to stop the jihad.

Seventeen former radical Islamists have "come out" in the past 12 months and have begun to fight back. Would they be able to tell me the reasons that pulled them into jihadism, and out again? Could they be the key to understanding – and defusing – Western jihadism? I have spent three months exploring their world and befriending their leading figures. Their story sprawls from forgotten English seaside towns to the jails of Egypt's dictatorship and the icy mountains of Afghanistan – and back again."

source http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/renouncing-islamism-to-the-brink-and-back-again-1821215.html

"I am chair of Muslims for Secular Democracy. Supporters of this organisation came out in central London last week to protest against sharia law and anti-democratic, anti-women Muslim groups. The spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain would not join us because I personally object to the burka and openly drink wine. That is their idea of personal opinion and choice. State-funded Muslim schools in Leicester and other cities have full burka uniforms and no longer allow in Shia Muslims or anyone who doesn't pass their dehumanising criteria. In mosques, families, religious schools, community centres, university associations and most of all the internet, Islam is being recast to exert total control over individuals."

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown

source - http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-if-only-i-could-explain-where-this-violence-comes-from-1821652.html

Tizita said...

i have always noticed something interesting when ever i see an Arab (muslims) rally against their opponent.

1. Majority are young people.

2. Majority are Men.

3. They always come in large numbers.

4. They have no clue why they are there.

5. They never cease to bring up Palestine, when the rally has nothing to do w/ Palestine.

6. Cursing Israel is a must, it wont be a rally w/ out it.

7. They are violent.

8. If the police weren't protecting their opponents they would literally kill them!

9. They are always desperate to go to the other side of their opponent (u can see that from them trying to jump over the gates and constantly crossing the line) and im assuming its to harm the other.

10. And, how do they have time to show up to every rally? dont they have school? work? or anything better to do? like American kids, who are either working to pay bills and rent or in college bettering themselves.

There is so much more i can say but u get my drift. they should have muslim parents at the rally, majority of young people dont know much abt the world other than txt messages, video games, iPhone, cars, girls or boys, clubs etc etc. I know that cuz im 22 and im around them all the time.

Let the mature face off the mature and let the immature face off each other :)

Stormbringer said...

Paul, your comments are big news to me, and maybe to many people. How often does it happen, aside from the radicals, that Muslims are judged by some standard of holiness or something?

Even so, the majority act like animals, as we see in so many examples. Peruse this site if you do not believe me.

Radical Moderate said...

@Storm

You wrote....
" Does anyone say to the Mohammedans, "You are not a good Muslim, you are an embarrassment to Allah" or similar? No? "

I have often made that observation to Muslims. Nobody ever tells a Muslim he should act more like Mohamed, because no one wants them to act more like Mohamed. That's the problem, is when Muslims act like Mohamed. God Forbid.

Its interesting that Muslims recognize the moral behavioral superiority of Christ, and how they don't even want to act like their Prophet.

Paul Baird said...

It seems to me that Islam is a faith still trying to find it's role in the world.

To denounce all Muslims on the basis of the vocal few does seem a tad unfair.

Remember that idiot who organised the protests in Luton against the The Anglian Regiment homecoming parade ? Remember Abdul Hamza ? Remember the promised protests in Wootton Bassett ?

There is a minority is every community that wants to make a noise and knows exactly which buttons to press to get their voices heard in the outraged media.

Compare the outrage you feel with the similar feelings we have over here towards the very, very small knot of supporters and activists for the Real IRA and Continuity IRA, who are still planning and implementing actual acts of terrorism. Does that mean we should condemn all Irish people ? I would hope not.

Mr McStizzle said...

@ Paul

"It seems to me that Islam is a faith still trying to find it's role in the world.

To denounce all Muslims on the basis of the vocal few does seem a tad unfair."

I don't see how denouncing a particular gathering of Muslims is denouncing all Muslims.

However, the question has to be asked... what defines a "Muslim" exactly? What makes one a "Muslim"? Is it what a self-professing Muslim tells you is a Muslim, or is it according to their texts and scriptures? Is it what the Quran and Hadith say a Muslim is?

Now, the Quran and Hadith presents a picture of a Muslim that indeed has some good qualities but also has some very bad and very worrying qualities.

The Quran and Hadith present an ideology, a very unpleasant and dangerous idealogy. And that is the key that is missed by so many, many people...What about the source of belief?

You mention the IRA and Irish people, but do all IRA and Irish people claim to have the same ideology as the foundation of their existence?

Compare this to Muslims who would have Muhammad as their example of the "perfect man" and the Quran & Hadith supplying their ideology. Anyone who confesses to be a Muslim, by definition, must accept these three things as their foundation.

Many people would denounce the actions of Muhammad.

Many people would denounce the teaching of the Quran.

Many people would denounce the example of the Hadith.

If someone therefore claims to be Muslim, should we not examine them through the eyes of these three sources?

It's easy to say "Let's not tar them all with the same brush", but what if this brush is the one they all claim to hold?

If, however, their true colours are not that of the brush, one can only conclude they aren't truly painted with it.

Stormbringer said...

You have GOT to be kidding! The loud, violent Muslims are being faithful to their teachings.

Paul Baird said...

Hmm, as someone who is happy to criticise Islam when it's due (see http://patientandpersistant.blogspot.com/2011/05/not-to-be-outdone-by-images-of-jesus-on.html)I can't say that I'm entirely content at being pushed into a position where I'm defending that faith against what appears to be a blanket condemnation.

Perhaps if your criticisms were less general and more specific then we could have a constructive exchange.

David said...

These koranimals are not true Americans. I was there at the protest and NOBODY is mentioning that the members of the "religion of peace" were throwing water bottles full of piss at us. I wrote about this in my article titled "islam - The Religion Of Piss" over at http://infidelsunited.com/articles/118/islam-the-religion-of-piss

NFSE!

David Pax

minoria said...

Hello Paul Baird:

Muslims can be good people,like you noted,but Islam is NOT what Muslims do but ISLAM is what is in the KORAN.That is its heart.And the Koran has extremist,anti-human-rights passages that are applicable for all time.Read the antisharia article that shows them,like cursing Christians and Jews (in chapters 5:14 and 5:64 "till the DAY OF RESURRECTION").

If another book said that about WOMEN or BLACK or BROWN PEOPLE(they are cursed till "the END OF THE WORLD") then you would call it a HATE BOOK:

http://www.antisharia.com/2011/03/14/about-the-argument-of-diversity-in-islam-and-the-extremist-passages-in-the-koran/

minoria said...

Hello Paul Baird:

Muslims can be good people,like you noted,but Islam is NOT what Muslims do but ISLAM is what is in the KORAN.That is its heart.And the Koran has extremist,anti-human-rights passages that are applicable for all time.Read the antisharia article that shows them,like cursing Christians and Jews (in chapters 5:14 and 5:64 "till the DAY OF RESURRECTION").

If another book said that about WOMEN or BLACK or BROWN PEOPLE(they are cursed till "the END OF THE WORLD") then you would call it a HATE BOOK:

http://www.antisharia.com/2011/03/14/about-the-argument-of-diversity-in-islam-and-the-extremist-passages-in-the-koran/

Stormbringer said...

"Compare the outrage you feel with the similar feelings we have over here towards the very, very small knot of supporters and activists for the Real IRA and Continuity IRA, who are still planning and implementing actual acts of terrorism. Does that mean we should condemn all Irish people ? I would hope not."

How can we have a "constructive exchange" from that? I cannot improve on the comments by Mr. McStizzle, but I can add a couple of thoughts.

You use the small group of Irish who do terrorism for political means and hope we do not condemn all Irish. Your comparison is invalid because Islam is a religious and political ideology, not specifically ethnic (you can probably find Irish Mohammedans). Irish terrorism is from a small group, but many Muslims act in vulgar, violent ways.

It would be much more difficult for me to find Irish worldwide terrorism, death threats, international civil unrest and more on a scale equal to that of Islam. Your comparison is invalid, I say again.

H√łgni Johannesen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bfoali said...

So anoying, ''free, free, Palestine'', what does Palestine have to do with anything?

Joe Bradley said...

Question!

After the mob broke through the police line, were any of them arrested???

Disorderly Conduct would have been a good start.

Pete said...

Muslim students practiced the same Muhammadan style "free speech" at USC Irvine
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=2150.msg9878#msg9878