Monday, August 23, 2010

Does the Sun orbit the Earth According to the Qur'an?

I was hoping some Muslims could educate us about these passages.

“(God is) the one Who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion” (Sura 21: 33).

I find it rather obvious from what this passage depicts that the day and night depends upon the orbit of the sun and moon. In other words, contrary to what Muslim apologists exclaim about the sun's galactic orbit, the passage appears rather to describe the sun and the moon in parallel orbits.

It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law)(Sura 36: 40).

That the Qur'an refers to parallel orbits is further clarified in this passage, which states that the sun and the moon do not catch up each other.

Think of it: what sense does this make if the Qur'an described a galatic orbit since the moon is already attached to such an orbit, and since the orbit relates not to the galaxy but the day and night? Furthermore, notice that this passage states the impossible task of the sun to catch up the moon.

Yet why can't the sun catch up the moon, is due to its inability to do so? Not really! The passage makes it perfectly clear that the sun is not permitted to do so. We might deduce from this that the sun has indeed the ability to catch the moon, hence the switch from day to night, since both travel in parallel orbits; yet their abilities to catch up is simply not permitted.

I might here agree with some that the passages are metaphorical, much like Sura 91: 1-2:

By the Sun and his (glorious) splendour; By the Moon as she follows him…(Sura 91: 1-2)

I must say I have no real problem with the metaphorical language of this passage, and I am inclined to believe that this simply describes what is observable from the earth.

Yet there are two following problems here:

The first, which I will refrain from looking at at this point (I intend to do so later), is the very language utilized by the Qur'an in describing the orbits, which appear to be in a close similtude with the pre-Islamic thinkers and hence in line with the observation of people who due to their lack of tools also lacked sufficient insight into our solar system.

The second problem derives from the interpretation of Muhammad himself:

Sahih Al-Bukbari clearly confirms some of these as scientific facts (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421: Narrated Abu Dharr):

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west.
And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ‘And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.’"
(36.38)

http://debunkingquranicscience.blogspot.com/2010/08/does-sun-orbit-earth-according-to-quran.html

14 comments:

minoria said...

Hello Hogan:
You are right,it is obvious the Koran says the sun moves around the earth.If it did NOT mention the natural phenomena of NIGHT and DAy then they could argue otherwise.Just as bad is the arguments given about the Ground Zero or Cordoba House Mosque.There is a Muslim website called theamericanmuslim.org and a DR ROBERT CRANE wrote:

"The dream of its founder, Imam Feisal Abdul-Rauf, a renowned Sufi shaykh, has been to create an interfaith center to bring out the best of all religions in America. The importance of this dream was only reinforced by the terrible tragedy of 9/11. His proposed interfaith center is named after the flourishing of religion and culture in Cordoba, Spain, once the largest city in the world with more than a hundred libraries. For more than two centuries before it was destroyed by petty tyrants from both within and without it was an intellectual and spiritual center of the Abrahamic religions unrivaled in human history as a symbol of interfaith understanding and cooperation. The purpose of Imam Abdul Rauf’s proposal for Cordoba House is to bring into reality the Common Word of all world religions, which is to seek reconciliation for the hurts of the past so that together in solidarity we can reduce the mutual hatred spawned by the crime of collective guilt and build a better future."
He obviously doesn't know RAUF:
1) refused to condemn Hamas and 2)has not signed a petition condemning the death of ex-muslims given to him by FORMER MUSLIMS UNITED.There is no coment section in the website so I can't give him the info.
What reconciliation and dialogue can there be from a man who keeps silent on the death of ex-Muslims?Or who doesn't condemn a group,Hamas,that APPROVES of the 9/11 attack that killed 3,000?

Zack_Tiang said...

That's one scientific Quran miracle myth busted.

Thanks, Mr. Hogan. =)

Zack_Tiang said...

I find this statement from Bukhari rather interesting...

"...then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west."

I'll ignore the notion that the sun prostrates and is capable of ASKING/SEEKING permission from any being to do ANYTHING..

What's interesting for me is the fact that the sun is "ordered to return [from where] it has come"....
How's that a scientific miracle?

I find it more interesting, when checking up the Suras online on a known online Quran (submission.org - not the most loyal of English translations, but generally well-known).. I found this footnote.

The Big Bang Theory Confirmed* - Sura 21:30-35
*21:30 The Big Bang Theory is now supported by the Creator's infallible mathematical code (Appendix 1). Thus, it is no longer a theory; it is a law, a proven fact.
http://www.submission.org/suras/sura21.html

I guess they accept that the sun AND the moon are "each floating in its own orbit", as scientifically proven facts and in fact, the LAW of nature.

Will said...

I will have to say one thing about these verses. I am an Arab, and one thing that always amuses me about the quran's translations is the fact that they surely mis-translate it to death. The word Falak (falaken with accentuation) does not mean Orbit. The word for Orbit is Madar. Falak means space, and anyone looking into the sky back then could tell you that these things are in Space. That's the thing with the supposed miracles of the quran, they are always either made up, tacked on, mistranslated, or over-interpreted (usually using the logic such as "The Quran is the word of God therefore it cannot be wrong, so I have to find a reason to make this Aya at least on par with modern science, which is a logical fallacy). For the people that understand the Arabic, none of the so-called miracles are miracles at all. I found one that was close, but most of them were far from being anywhere close to being miraculous.

Xeno Genesis said...

This is my answer that i've posted on the website that you've forwared:

"The Qur'an is packed with errors." The Quran does not give errors for what it contains within is absolute truth, the truth that is beyond human's capability of thinking unless he gave a thorough thinking about it, which in the end, Allah said "These are the signs to those who thinks."

First of all, you said that "travel in parallel orbits". This is the first concept of understanding that you are wrong. The moon and the Sun does not orbit on parallel paths. In fact, they orbit almost similar to the Geocentric Model proposed by Ptolemy which is the Ptolemaic System. In other researches, it is believed that the Earth is the center of our solar system which makes it at its own position or simple, at its 'rest point' based on the Geocentric Model. To further understand this, you have to actually read and understand fully what the Quran describes.

The interpretation of Muhammad(pbuh) is telling that the sun is currently(now)is orbiting from East to the West. Until one day, the Sun asked for permission to orbit at the opposite route which is from the West to the East which is contradicting with the laws of physics but if you compare it with Allah's Almighty powers, it is possible to happen if He permits it. The Sun asks permission to the opposite way of orbiting but Allah denies the Sun's permission until one day when The Sun asks for the same permission, Allah permits it, which indicates that the End of The World or simply, The Judgement Day. That is what the interpretation of Muhammad(pbuh) meant.

The orbiting of the moon and the sun is not parallel for in the verse, "It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law)" (Sura 36: 40). This verse is scientifically meant that the Moon and the Sun 'swims' on its own orbit according to Allah's law. "It is not permitted for the Sun to catch up the moon". This line obviously showing that the orbiting of the sun and the moon IS NOT IN PARALLEL LINE. If you are saying that these two celestial bodies orbits in a parallel lines, that you might now itself witness day and night, thus showing the shape of the moon right now! This proves that the orbiting of the Sun and the Moon is not on parallel lines. The word 'catch up' obviously indicate that the moon and the sun is mostly orbiting in a circular shape like what heliocentric and geocentric models have proposed but the difference between them is the position of the sun and the earth which now has been scientifically proved that our solar system moves in a circular motion.

This shows that your assumption about a parallel orbiting is just showing contradicting on what modern scientific research have proved. If you again accept the fact that the sun and the moon is orbiting on parallel lines, you just made an indication that everything can be seen right at this moment, meaning that you can witness day and night at the same time, including stars and other celestial bodies that the universe is storing. The Quran have shown, described and proved at an intense specific which basically have been scientifically proved by neither physics and also the astronomical laws.

Thus, indicating that before you make some unsure statements to disprove what the Quran has stated, i suggest you get a better understanding of the Quran neither 'within' nor the 'outside' meaning of the Quran. Refer to the people who are much are of the meanings of the Quran because they seem to know more of the inner meaning of what has be stated by Allah, the All-Knowing and the Creator of Everything. If you still have you suspiciousness, Google about scientists that have proved that the Quran is telling the truth with the utmost specific details that every humans urge to know. In the end, Allah and His Apostle knows best.

CristoTeAma said...

TO: Xeno Genesis

Did you read the rest of the passage ? or the hadiths? i mean usaw "an opportunity" with the "parallel" thing, and u said "hey that's not mentioned", the thing is that you don't need that to be mention because it's clear when you read the passages and the hadiths, it's unbelievable your explaination..anyway when you say "in the end, Allah and His Apostle knows best." you are telling us that water can't be polluted by anything, that a fly has a poison and venon in the wings, etc? Anyone can say that in any religion, whatever they prove to you showing u r wrong, it won't matter because u will just say " my prophet knows better" the only difference is that this is one of the most used argument to say Islam is from god, but the thing is that if it's lying well, it proves that it can't be from god.

OmarOmarOmar said...

Sorry, I couldn't help but notice heaps of stupidity in both your post, and the comments. Yes the verse of the Qur'an refers to the Sun and Moon's orbit.
What you morons overlooked is the fact that the verse refers to both of their SPECIFIC orbits. Meaning the Sun, which orbits on its on axis once every 27 day, is indeed making it's rotation. Same for the Moon with rotates around Earth.

In the future, confirm the Qur'an and look at the deeper meaning. Allah (SWT) knows more than any of us and surely you are of the transgressors when you try to invent a lie against him. Peace be upon you.

robin armogan said...

No doubt! the jews and christians will try their best to prove the Quran wrong.the reason for this is because they are all ashmed of their porn gospel(bible)and many unsciencetific things it contain.there are hundreds and hundreds of contradictions in the there porn gospel(bible)as we all know.just imagine they say that the earth is flat,round not spherical,has pillars,edge,corners and so on. That is how idiotic those people(jews and christians) are.

Joseph Bowers said...

I guess it is true that Muhammad was in fact illiterate, because the attempts on this message board to explain various passages in the Qu'ran are clearly a Jihad against the English language. It's too bad the people arguing back and forth here do not have Allah proofreading their statements as well before they are published. I thought that since this website is written in the English language that the people posting the responses spoke English; but alas, I was wrong. Still, it must be some kind of systematic method of communicating because the people seem to understand one another on some level, or at least that illusion is created. The actual thoughts behind many of these comments are solid and even intellectually sound; however, the grammar is atrocious! It almost seems like a group of 7th grade drop-out, draft-dodging, underachieving pseudo-intellectual, hipster vagabonds got together on their annual pilgrimage to Ft. Lauderdale and ran into a group of fundamentalist Muslims that are still learning English and the entire group then proceeded to debate various excerpts from the Qu'ran while passing the ol' bong around the circle(probably how they got on the topic of space.:) With half of these posts I find myself intrigued by what the person begins to write, so I start reading, only to progressively grow frustrated as I become increasingly lost, stumbling further into the floundering jumble of incorrect grammar, run on sentences, fragments, incorrect punctuation, erratic shifts in thought, overall lack of clarity, etc. Oh, and if that was not bad enough, as I push onward into this ominous odyssey, like some pioneer bravely exploring a new world, I discover that each unintelligible attempt to convey an opinion viciously turns into hypocritical attempts to insult someone else or his/her religion. While we are reinforcing stereotypes why don't we go ahead and declare this kind of English the one pure and holy form and dare any one else to deviate from it or disagree with us? Lest he be smote by the holy wrath of our righteous fury, obedience surely shall follow. Or we will fervently smite each and every infidel for the splendor of the Almighty One and thus speak admonishingly unto all others who might disobey: I have become death. Shatterer of worlds. Waiting that hour-that ripens to his doom. See? I just threw in a verse from the Bhagavad Gita at the end, so don't say I am bashing Islam because of my satirical rant. I am clearly bashing Shiva as well. Also, I am not saying that people need to use perfect grammar on the internet either. Instead, I am simply suggesting that you should either learn how to write in a way that is intelligible or just stick to manual labor and don't attempt intellectual endeavors. ;)

hermanseele said...

TO XENO GENESIS,

You write: "The interpretation of Muhammad(pbuh) is telling that the sun is currently(now)is orbiting from East to the West."
Stop right there. You need to understand that Muhammad was mistaken when he declared that the sun is orbiting from East to West. INSTEAD, THE EARTH IS ORBITING ON ITS AXIS.

Khalifah said...

I truly can't fathom why most of you is arguing the night outstripping the day has anything to do with the orbit of the moon at all?

To me, a non Arabic speaker, the verses simply state that:
1/ moon follows around the earth along its own designated space: moon orbits earth
2/ sun in its own orbit: sun orbits around the massive mass (possibly black hole) in the center of Milky Way
3/ sun's tenure a predetermined time: the sun has a life span
4/ day never outstrip the night and night never outstrip the day: it means the earth rotates - nothing to do with the moon at all

I don't understand what moon has anything to do with night.

And about Hadth Bukhari - he's a liar, wouldn't pay much attention to what he says about Muhammad. Especially when "things Muhammad supposedly said" according to Bukhari is so contradictory to words of Muhammad in the Quran. Not unlike Paul's contradictory teachings to Jesus'.

Khalifah said...

I truly can't fathom why most of you is arguing the night outstripping the day has anything to do with the orbit of the moon at all?

To me, a non Arabic speaker, the verses simply state that:
1/ moon follows around the earth along its own designated space: moon orbits earth
2/ sun in its own orbit: sun orbits around the massive mass (possibly black hole) in the center of Milky Way
3/ sun's tenure a predetermined time: the sun has a life span
4/ day never outstrip the night and night never outstrip the day: it means the earth rotates - nothing to do with the moon at all

I don't understand what moon has anything to do with night.

And about Hadth Bukhari - he's a liar, wouldn't pay much attention to what he says about Muhammad. Especially when "things Muhammad supposedly said" according to Bukhari is so contradictory to words of Muhammad in the Quran. Not unlike Paul's contradictory teachings to Jesus'.

Unknown said...

You just have to educate yourself more..The reason that it is a miracle to know that the sun is sent back to where it is from is because the world did not know that the sun too was in a orbit, yes you guys all believe that the earth orbits the sun but that is wrong.

We generally tend to agree with the notion that the planets revolve around the Sun. But what is actually happening is that the Sun and the planets are involved in a "cosmic dance" around a common center of mass.

He has ordained the sun and the moon, each one runs
(it's course) for an appointed time."
(Qur'an 13:2)


"It is He Who created the night and the day, and
the sun and the moon. They swim along,
each in an orbit. "
(Qur'an 21:33)


And the sun is constantly moving in the direction of its ultimate abode of rest. This is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. (Qur'an 36:37)

It is not the Quran that is packed with errors but mankind that is in error and learning from what God has given us.

Please if you guys have any scientific questions
based on the quran please do not hesitate to send me msgs at jalees.ahmad.k@gmail.com

businessmd20032003 said...

"It is obvious the Koran says..."
What complete retardation. Try reading and understanding the verse. It does not say the Sun orbits the Earth, nowhere. In fact, this is another scientific miracle of the Quran that backfires on the haters and ignorant disbelievers as the Sun does have a small orbit indeed within the galaxy.