Friday, July 16, 2010

Muslim Mother Receives Zero Jail-Time for Killing Daughter

This is a rather complicated case. I originally posted this thinking it was more clear-cut, but I did some background research and found that there is more to this story: possible PTSD, self-defense, etc. This is big news in Canada, though, and people are deliberating whether or not the judgment has anything to do with honor killings and Islamophobiaphobia. What do you think? I'm now leaning more towards not honor killing, but I'm interested in your thoughts.



Calgary Herald

CALGARY - The Calgary mother who killed her teenage daughter by strangling her with a scarf more than three years ago will not have to spend a day in jail, a judge ruled on Thursday.

But, in suspending the sentence of Aset Magomadova and placing her on probation for three years, Court of Queen's Bench Justice Sal LoVecchio said the penalty can still meet the ends of justice.

"At first blush (a suspended sentence) may sound like a get out of jail free card. It is not," emphasized the judge.

"The court has said the act in question does not merit a period of incarceration. What the court has done is reserved or to use the word of the statute, 'suspended' judgment on that point for a period of time on conditions. If the conditions are satisfied, then the individual will not be sentenced. If they are breached, the individual will be brought back to the court to be dealt with further."

Magomadova, 40, a refugee from the wartorn country of Chechnya, was originally charged with second-degree murder for killing her daughter Aminat, 14, on Feb. 26, 2007, at their Calgary home.

But LoVecchio deemed she did not intend to kill her, even though such an act required at least 2 1/2 minutes of continuous strangulation to cause death, and convicted her last October of the lesser included offence of manslaughter. READ MORE

26 comments:

Lupus el Lobo said...

Again you guys are using a deceptive heading to suggest that a western country somehow is secretly governed by a cabal of muslims or that islamic law forms the basis of the criminal law of a western country.
You use a similar discourse as the nazis used about the Jews.

Before throwing out wild accusations and formenting hate towards muslims can you please provide proof for the specific judge being influenced by islamic law when ruling in this case.
Nabeel, do you have some sort of recorded statement where the judge legitimizes his ruling on the basis of islamic law?
Nabeel, have you even read the verdict and checked whether the justifications of the verdict agree with Canadian criminal law?

Or are just grasping after every straw with which you can demonize islam and muslims?

Nabeel and your master Wood, it seems to me that you somehow have found a way of becoming perfect Christians.

You seem to have found the exact balance between humility, kindness etc. and as you term it disclosing the truth about islam.
On the one hand as you claim christianity is so peaceful on the other hand your actions are saturated with a hostile agenda towards islam.
Ok I know your argument: you are not hostile, you are just revealing the truth about islam.
Well it seems to me that you have come up with a definition of peacefulness which just happens to agree with your apologetic approach.
Congrats, a nice way of making sure you can sleep well at night.
Trust me your hatefullness and hypocricy will catch up with you some day and bite you.

Nabeel Qureshi said...

Lupus -

Note the question mark in the title. I am not concluding anything, I am asking the readers to provide their input.

And, you have to admit, it is thought provoking. Any other mother in the West, if found guilty of strangling her child to death, would get more than probation. This mother is not getting that. Why could that be? The most obvious answer off-the-bat is that it's because she's Muslim.

But, since I haven't done the background research, I haven't made any sort of conclusion. I've left that up to the readers.

Again, chill out. Sincerely,
-Nabeel

Traeh said...

I wonder if the judge was either threatened or bribed. She's from Chechnya? Maybe threatened...

Lupus el Lobo said...

Nabeel wrote:
Note the question mark in the title. I am not concluding anything, I am asking the readers to provide their input.

Lupus replied:
But you are! You imply both in your post as well as in the post that the verdict is somehow linked to sharia law. You're being dishonest. Moreover, you state that she is guilty of honor killing. Have you read the verdict or are just regurgitating things you've read in the media and using it as tool for demonizing islam?
In your reply you state that this wouldn't have happened in any other western country. How do you know? Have you done a comparison of the legal systems and practices of any western country at all?
It seems to me that you need to chill out with your hatemongering.
Trust me i'm as chill as you can get :)

Nabeel Qureshi said...

Lupus --

If you think you're as chill as you can get, you need to get out more.

I provided an excerpt from a news report (the Calgary Herald, hardly an anti-Muslim site) and gave links to the whole article. My input was restricted to the title of the blog post, and you're flipping out. Calm down.

That being said, at your request I did look further into this case, and it seems that you're right - this is a much more complicated case than it looked at first glance. As such, I'm going to change the title of the post, but I'm still leaving it up for people to make their own conclusions.

Cheers,
-Nabeel

Lupus el Lobo said...

Nabeel said:

If you think you're as chill as you can get, you need to get out more.

Lupus replied:
You're probably right. However, i'm working with the final touches on my dissertation which entails me sitting inside behind a keyboard.

kate said...

Sure she might not have to spend a day in jail for what she did. But is she doesn't repent and ask Jesus to forgive her of her sins then she will burn in hell for eternity.
The Bible says things are gonna get worse as the return of Christ is nearing, and this is of no shock to me. All i suggest for her to do is repent and ask Jesus for forgiveness, otherwise hell isn't a place she wants to be, period!

Laura Davis said...

Nothing is ever said in the article about why she did this. I am Canadian and I'm appalled that she was set free. Murder is murder. She should be in prison. If she has lost her senses, then she should be in a psychiatric facility.

q_bmc said...

I watched some of your videos in Dearborn. Yes, you were assaulted. It appears the only thing you did that upset the Muslims was taking videos. It seems to me, you could have been a better witness of your faith in some other way. You took a camera when you knew it would upset them. As Christians, you should not be upsetting them. Also you were aggressively treading on their territory ...it was their festival for that day. We should be loving them and not deliberately looking for trouble. Examine your hearts. Were you looking for trouble?

q_bmc said...

I know very little about this case except that a 14-year old was killed by her mother and the mother only gets probation for killing her. It smells like a government bureaucrat is trying to appease the Muslims to me. Anyone else would have had to spend time in jail. The gov't and the judge and etc should study more about Islam. Then they would know there is nothing that will appease the Muslims. Just watch the videos on YouTube to see what the Muslims themselves are saying. The more we give into them and appease them the more they will take until they are in control and THEN watch the killing of Jews, Christians and other 'infidels' begin.

Yes we should reach out to the Muslims in love but it should be tough love. We should not be appeasing them. Those who obey OUR rules and laws should be allowed to stay. The rest should be deported. Also all immigration of Muslims and from Muslim countries should be stopped immediately. Why are we letting a bunch of murderers into our respective countries. I'm Canadian. We have a right to protect ourselves, our children and our grandchildren.

Even Muslims should want immigration of Muslims to stop. Do they want for their families what is going on in Afghanistan, Pakistan,Gaza and other Muslim countries? If we get more Muslims, that is exactly what will happen. But I digress.

If anyone besides a Muslim had killed their 14-yr old child, we would be spending time in jail and we would have been told that there is NO excuse for killing anyone, let alone a child.

To the Muslims, I say, study your own holy books such as the Qur'an and the Hadiths. If you knew what was in them, you would not be a Muslim. Study about Muhammad and all of the awful and ruthless things that he did and then tell me that it was a righteous God that sent Muhammad as a messenger. After you know what there is to know about Muhammad, compare him with Jesus. Read the first 4 Gospels of the New Testament for starters, especially the Gospel of John. Notice, too, in John 1:1, it says "....and the Word was God." Then 14 verses later it says, "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" Does that mean the Word was Jesus? But the Word was God, John 1:1 said. It can only mean that Jesus was (and is) God in the flesh. God's heavenly name is Yahweh and his earthly name is Jesus. And please don't tell me the Bible is corrupted (or distorted) UNLESS you can show me how and where it was corrupted. God bless you muchly in your study. I accept your decision whatever that might be. It is not up to me, other Christians or even Muslims to tell you what to believe. The choice is YOURS and yours alone. If it were me, my first action would be to pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (not Allah, for now) to reveal the truth to me whether I am reading the Muslim holy books or the Bible. HE WILL DO IT !! I love you and will be praying for you.

Lupus el Lobo said...

q_bmc said:
It can only mean that Jesus was (and is) God in the flesh.

Lupus replied:)

Why do you call me good? No one is good--except God alone. [Mk 10:18, Lk 18:17, Mt 19:17]
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. [Mk 13:32]
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. [Lk 12:10]
Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done. [Lk 22:42-43]
Father, into your hands I commit my spirit. [Lk 23:46]
the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son [Jn 5:22]
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. [Jn 5:30]
I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. [Jn 8:28]
I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. [Jn 8:42]
If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who is glorifying me, of whom ye say that He is your God. [Jn 8:54]
I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. [Jn 12:49]
The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work [Jn 14:10]
If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. [Jn 14:28]
I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me. [Jn 14:31]
Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father. [Jn 16:25]
I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. No, the Father himself loves you [Jn 16:26-27]
I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. [Jn 20:17]
As the Father has sent me, I am sending you. [Jn 20:21]

Zack_Tiang said...

q_bmc said...
"You took a camera when you knew it would upset them. As Christians, you should not be upsetting them. Also you were aggressively treading on their territory ...it was their festival for that day. We should be loving them and not deliberately looking for trouble. Examine your hearts. Were you looking for trouble?"

And then q_bmc also said...
"Then they would know there is nothing that will appease the Muslims."
"Yes we should reach out to the Muslims in love but it should be tough love. We should not be appeasing them. Those who obey OUR rules and laws should be allowed to stay. The rest should be deported."

I find your statements rather inconsistent...

First and foremost, no.. the festival is NOT their 'territory', as stress numerous times. It's an Arab Festival, which is opened to any Arabs of any religious faith.

And since the Arab Festival was a public event and on public grounds, Nabeel and others are free to bring their cameras and record as they please.
If the people don't like it... just ask them to shoot elsewhere or exclude themselves from the shot. That's their right.

You have incomplete information regarding this Dearborn incident, q_bmc.

Then there's your 'tough love' and 'it's pointless to appease Muslims' comments... which, I'll repeat, do not compliment your comment about 'don't upset the Muslims'.

Zack_Tiang said...

I like most of your biblical quotes, Lupus.
Most of them has Jesus calling God, 'Father'...

Then there's "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. [Lk 12:10]"
Interesting that you quote this.. Are you agreeing that the Holy Spirit is God? Or at least, a being of some significant authority that blaspheming the Holy Spirit would mean big trouble for the person? I doubt Quran's Angel Gabriel fits that sort of position of authority.

Then you also quoted..
"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done. [Lk 22:42-43]"
"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit. [Lk 23:46]"
Both verses confirming Jesus's death... which the Quran denies ever happened; regardless Jesus is divine or not.

"If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who is glorifying me, of whom ye say that He is your God. [Jn 8:54]"
Was there any prophet or any man that has ever been glorified by God?

"As the Father has sent me, I am sending you. [Jn 20:21]"
Similar question as above.
Was there any prophet who have ever sent another prophet to do His command?

Fernando said...

Lupus el Lobo presented a long list off quotes taken from any dawa book and as theirs author he simply shows utter ignorance... is thate the best you can do? hummm... thate says a lot from you and your intelectual hability... take my advice: leave your attempt to desacredit Christianitu and go see grass grow:..

Zack_Tiang said...

Oh yeah... somehow I overlooked this verse that I really must comment from Lupus's list...

"the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son [Jn 5:22]"

What man is given the authority to judge... not just all men.. but everything!?

"has entrusted ALL judgement to the Son"

And that includes Muhammad and Islam.
You had better be sure you know what Jesus taught and the only place you get His teaching directly from Jesus Himself is from the Son of Man Himself in the bible... not a bad secondhand source that came 600 years later.

Good luck and may God bless you, Lupus.

hugh watt said...

[s.3:49] As a messenger to the Children of Israel: "I come to you with a sign from your Lord - I create for you from clay the shape of a bird, then I blow into it, and it becomes a live bird by GOD's leave. I restore vision to the blind, heal the leprous, and I revive the dead by GOD's leave. I can tell you what you eat, and what you store in your homes. This should be a proof for you, if you are believers.

If only God can create life, will a Muslim care to explain how "Isa" made a clay bird and gave it life! Do you have any other prophets creating life?

Zack_Tiang said...

Hugh Watt said..
"If only God can create life, will a Muslim care to explain how "Isa" made a clay bird and gave it life! Do you have any other prophets creating life?"

They would probably reply "Isa did it with/by the permission of Allah."

Then they'll probably support it with this verse where Jesus said,
"For I myself can do nothing, but as the Father taught me."

Then maybe they'll bring in some of the OT prophets who were able to bring the dead back to life... e.g. Elisha's bones resurrected a runaway dead body.

How would you respond?

hugh watt said...

Zack:

I would ask; a) What other being in eternity other than God creates life?
b) Gen:2.7 says God made man from, you know what: Jesus made a clay bird from the same stuff. God breathed life into the man, making him a living soul. Isa, in s:3.49,
5.110 breathed into the bird giving it life. No other prophet/being has done this, why? Why not leave out that little
'miracle,' surely a splitting of the moon or water flowing from a finger could have sufficed, no? Why that particular 'miracle?'
If miracles in and of themselves are supposed to prove a persons prophethood, what about the many magicians who can perform tricks!
Now, accurate proven prophecy is another thing. What did Muhammad prophesy to prove his prophethood? He struggled in that area but Muslims seem to not have latched on to this.

Zack_Tiang said...

hugh watt:

They'll probably brush aside your points by saying..
"Like we explained, Jesus did it with Allah's permission and through His power. Just like Muhd split the moon in two."

Not too sure how they'll respond to the magician one and the false prophecy bits..

Maybe...

"Then what about your bible? How do you know Paul is a true apostle and not just someone out to create his own religion?? He has never met Jesus in person.. ever."

And then..
"Jesus Himself in your bible made prophecies that never come true.. 'Surely before this generation ends, you will see the second coming of the Son of Man....' Well, it's been generations since that generation has passed. Where's Christ?"

hugh watt said...

Zack:

If their intention is to persuade the 'infidel' of Islam's truth, brushing aside such Q's will not do.

If Muhammad prophesied accurately we'd have something to chew on, but..I've noticed a common trait in humanity; when we're not sure about a certain thing we ask Q's: If we get a reply, 'no particular reason, just,' we kinda frown, as though we want an answer. In my Pickthall older Koran, s:24.2, we read about adulterers being scourged 100x. In the Hilali/Khan
"stoning to death" is added! I wonder how many Muslims would just brush that little addition off had it been in the Bible; they'd certainly push for an answer.
How do we know Muhammad was a true apostle/prophet? He never met Jesus either!

"This generation.." A specific one living at a particular time when "all these things" spoken of in Matt 24v1-34, etc. But let's not go there; I'd ask them to explain the signs that lead up to Christ's return according to Islam.

"Well, it's been generations since that generation has passed. Where's Christ?"

2 Peter 3.3,4.

Zack_Tiang said...

Hmm.. Let's see how a Muslim would probably respond....

"If their intention is to persuade the 'infidel' of Islam's truth, brushing aside such Q's will not do."

They will probably stress again.. "Like we said, Isa did it with Allah's permission and through Allah's power, he did that miracle. Exactly the same with Muhammad, who split the moon with Allah's permission and with Allah's power."

"Muhammad never met Jesus either"

It was revealed to Muhammad by Allah Himself. Paul on the other hand, was in disagreement with Jesus's own disciples in the beginning. That showed Paul had a different gospel.

Then speaking of gospels, the Christians had four gospels anyways.. And all 4 tell different versions of Jesus (different chronology, different sayings, different number of people, etc).

(I'm not to sure if a Muslim would respond as such, cause I can't think of a better response that doesn't require blatant inconsistency with their belief in the Quran... haha.)

" 'Well, it's been generations since that generation has passed. Where's Christ?'
2 Peter 3.3,4."

They might say..
"So... Jesus said 'before this generation passes, you will see the return of the Son of Man.' Generations have passed now and no return of Son of Man.
Ask to explain and the Christians just respond, 'You are scoffers.'
Looks like denial to me."

hugh watt said...

Zack:

"'They will probably stress again..
"Like we said, Isa did it with Allah's permission and through Allah's power, he did that miracle. Exactly the same with Muhammad, who split the moon with Allah's permission and with Allah's power.'"

Why? It's not an answer, just a statement. Creating life from non-life is an act only God can perform. Allah has a habit of confusing people; i.e. "They killed him not.." Now Allah makes Isa do something only God can do! Why would a "Merciful, compassionate, All-Knowing God" allow such confusion?
Was it a big sword or small moon?

"'It was revealed to Muhammad by Allah Himself.'"

I'd ask Mormons the same: Where's
the proof? S:53.2-18, Allah? S:81:19-24, Jibril?

"'Paul on the other hand, was in disagreement with Jesus's own disciples in the beginning. That showed Paul had a different gospel.'"

How so?
No one believed Muhammad in the beginning. He didn't believe he was a prophet and needed a woman to persuade him otherwise! Why did he behave like that?

"'Then speaking of gospels, the Christians had four gospels anyways..'"

Point them out.
Do we need to go into the Caliphs/
sects?
In my Pickthall older Koran s:24.2,
we read about adulterers being scourged 100x. In the Hilali/Khan
"stoning to death" is added! 2 Korans?

"'So... Jesus said 'before this generation passes, you will see the return of the Son of Man.
Ask to explain and the Christians just respond, 'You are scoffers.'
Looks like denial to me.'"

If the text is correctly quoted the Q should not have arisen.

Zack_Tiang said...

hugh watt:

haha.. Gaining information here. Haha.

What's this 'big sword or small moon' business?

"Where's
the proof? S:53.2-18, Allah? S:81:19-24, Jibril? "
Explain further please? Don't understand what you're trying to show here.

"No one believed Muhammad in the beginning. He didn't believe he was a prophet and needed a woman to persuade him otherwise! Why did he behave like that?"

I don't know a Muslim's conventional knowledge regarding this matter... so....
"Your sources are false! Go read real historical sources!"

"Do we need to go into the Caliphs/
sects?"

"But they all follow one Quran and the Quran says the same thing about Allah and His prophet. I'm not talking about difference in translation or minor different interpretations. But for the Christian bible.. there's the Protestant one.. there's the Catholic one... Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Witness Lee, etc... I'm talking about VERSIONS of the bible. You have verses missing or added in.. even complete books left out!"

Now this last one I've yet to see any Christian apologist give a satisfactory answer... and I would really like to know how one would respond to this one.

hugh watt said...

Zack:

If Muhammad cut the moon in half did he use a big sword to cut a small moon?

S:53.2-18, Allah? S:81:19-24, Jibril? If they say the gospels say different things, who brought the Quran?

"I don't know a Muslim's conventional knowledge regarding this matter... so....
"Your sources are false! Go read real historical sources!"

I don't think they'd say that, not if they know the story.

"But they all follow one Quran and the Quran says the same thing about Allah and His prophet. I'm not talking about difference in translation or minor different interpretations. But for the Christian bible.. there's the Protestant one.. there's the Catholic one... Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Witness Lee, etc... I'm talking about VERSIONS of the bible. You have verses missing or added in.. even complete books left out!"

We can play that game too; what about the many translations of the Quran? In my Pickthall older Koran s:24.2, we read about adulterers being scourged 100x. In the Hilali/
Khan "stoning to death" is added! 2Korans? Next time they take a trip abroad they should buy a Quran in say, Egypt, Iran, N.W.Africa, Indonesia etc; it's quite an eye opener.

"Complete books left out." Complete Hadith are left out, why? Same kinda principle.

Zack_Tiang said...

Alright. Thanks, hugh watt.
It was fun mimicking Muslim for a while... though I failed pretty much at it.
Not knowledgeable enough.

Thanks for 'debating' with me. Haha.

hugh watt said...

Zack:

Mimicking? I thought you were on the verge,..oh never mind:}