Saturday, July 24, 2010

Double Standards in Dearborn

It was a brilliant plan. Certain Muslims wanted to stop George Saieg's ministry from freely distributing materials at the Arab Festival. However, one can't simply make a law against Christians. The solution was to make a rule against open distribution, a rule that supposedly applied to everyone. Security, however, would only enforce the rule against Christians. Voila! A Christian ministry is shut down, and everyone thinks it's fair treatment!

30 comments:

Anthony Rogers said...

It looks like Roger "multicultural" Willaims isn't open and tolerant towards Chritianity. And the irony of it all: he is very much unlike his namesake who fought for religious liberty.

Roger said...

Anthony,

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Lydia McGrew said...

You beat me to it, Anthony Rogers. I was just going to say that the historic Roger Williams is turning in his grave.

But the suspense is killing us: What criminal complaint could he possibly make?? It's utterly baffling. "Hey, I have a complaint. They interviewed a fellow Christian about how I stopped him from distributing tracts, and they then pointed their camera at a different guy who looked Muslim and wasn't being stopped from distributing something. That's a crime, right?"

A little clarification question: Was Luke saying that he was told by security that he could not distribute Christian tracts _even at his booth_? Or was he being told only that he could not distribute them away from his booth? The way he words it, I'm unsure which he means. Supreme Court precedents would certainly not support prohibiting Christian distribution altogether, though they do permit distribution generally to be restricted to booths. And obviously, Josh McDowell (!) was distributing books at his booth. What was Luke told?

David Wood said...

Lydia,

I think he was allowed to distribute from behind the table at his booth.

The problem was that others could freely walk around the festival handing out pretty much anything. But as soon as a Christian dared to hand something out (inside or outside the festival), watch out!

As for the criminal complaint, Roger told police we were harassing him. The upside is that we have the encounter on camera, and he clearly threatens us (after harassing Negeen!). The downside is that I need an interview with Nabeel for the video, and Nabeel's out of the country for a week. So you'll have to be patient. In the meantime, I've got plenty more footage to post.

Anthony Rogers said...

The irony is even greater. The modern Roger Williams was a volunteer at the festival with a group called "Impact International", which ostensibly promotes (and was at the festival to promote) multiculturalism.

Lydia McGrew said...

Ah, harassing _him_. That's rich. We'll look forward to the footage and interview.

I totally get the double standard, and you are completely right that it is outrageous. I was just trying to find out how far they went.

minoria said...

Double standards without a doubt.I just checked Paul Williams' Blogging Theology and he had before posted 2 articles against Acts17 regarding Dearborn.

However,now that ALOT of videos have come out showing he,Paul Williams,was wrong,HE STILL hasn't posted a new article saying he was wrong in condemning Acts17.

If Paul Williams thinks he is a good submitter to Allah,then he should offer an apology,say that he was wrong.He never will.

It is obvious he is only interested in GIVING ACTS17 a BAD IMAGE than in doing the RIGHT THING.He still has NOT CONDEMNED Zakir Naik for approving the killing of apostates and homosexuals.Hmmm,and then HE COMPLAINS of ANTI-ISLAM HATRED by non-Muslims.There would be LESS if he did his job of condemning evil Muslims.His case is negative.

I really thought,sincerely,that since he was Christian and of Western culture before he became a Muslim,then HE would act rightly,not like those who have been raised in Islam from the beginning.That is the way life is,very strange case.

Traeh said...

Just gets better and better.

kate said...

Hello everyone: I'm looking for a website that has Greek translations for the Bible. I'm studying the Bible and i want to look up some words in Greek to understand what it really means, and what the disciples were trying to convey when they wrote it.
I would like the website to be simple and easy to understand without me having to take Algebra as a course, LOL! plz recommend as many as u can. Thanks everyone!!!!!

Royal Son said...

Lydia, although Josh McDowell was distributing literature at his booth, that literature was in the form of novels, i.e. fiction. No gospel tracts, no bibles, no apologetics books.

It seems to me that Mr. McDowell was so caught up with not wanting to offend anybody, that he basically had to smile, keep his mouth shut about the gospel, and distribute fictional work.

Thanks for the hat tip on your site by the way.

Much grace,
Royalson.

Dean said...

Wow, just... wow!

IDEA!:

Next year built a portable booth. Something small that you can attach to your body, strap it over your shoulders, but keep it positioned in front of you so that your always behind the booth, then walk around and hand out pamphlets.

Ryft Braeloch said...

Kate,

http://www.blueletterbible.org/

Haecceitas said...

Kate, I think http://www.blueletterbible.org is pretty easy to use. When you do a search for a NT passage, just click the small "C" button to the left side of the text and it'll show Greek.

pnb32000 said...

@Kate,

Try bible.cc

I think that site may have what you're looking for. Search a passage and you can pull up the Greek or Hebrew and access a lexicon as well.

Fernando said...

Hi sister kate... glade to see you arounde here...

sheck these sites:

http://www.greekbible.com/
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm
http://www.kimmitt.co.uk/gnt/gnt.html
http://www.nathan.co.za/greek.asp

may God bless you and your family...

Erlend said...

Kate,

Try http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jhn&c=3&v=1&t=KJV#top

Click the letter C at the right hand side of the page on the verse you want to look at. Be careful though, word studies aren't enough to fully understand the underlying Greek.

Acts 17 team,

Wow. This is looking more and more ludicrous. I can't believe that Dearborn thought they could do this and get away with it. I trust you are legally challenging them.

Chad Groenhout said...

http://www.blueletterbible.org/

The Fat Man said...

WOW, unbelievable.

Any chance of Posting Roger Williams Address, and Phone number?

We can turn him into another Steve Bartman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bartman_incident

The Fat Man said...

Anthony is this the impact international website?

http://www.impactinternationalchurch.com/

BTW how do you insert links into comments.

I have tried using the <a tags however it doesn't seem to work for me.

Lydia McGrew said...

Saieg must have had to carry around a copy of the court order with him. My understanding is that it applied only to the five-block buffer zone. It's ridiculous of course that the buffer zone should have applied to anyone other than Saieg, either, once the court order was entered. No one would do that in another area. Once a court indicates that a regulation is unconstitutional everyone usually understands that this doesn't mean only for the person who actually brought the suit!

But unless the police knew how to recognize Saieg and anyone else in his ministry by sight, it must have been interesting for him to be explaining who he was all the time when he was passing out his literature within five blocks of the festival. Practically must have needed a sandwich sign: "We're the people with a court order allowing us to do this. Leave us alone."

BlackBaron said...

Next year you guys should attend the festival along with your lawyer. Might help to have legal representation present at the moment that the police begin harassing you.

Confident Christianity said...

Fat Man -

I don't think it is necessary to post his address, etc. The idea doesn't sit well with me; especially if this guy may be a brother in Christ. I'm not condoning what he did, but a don't think this is an appropriate response. I don't have the Scripture support for my intuition here off hand; so I apologize for not reasoning from the Scriptures on this.

MJ

The Fat Man said...

Confident Christianity.

I understand your point. Actually when I read the Mayors response a few days ago I was thinking to myself I hope this guy is not turned into another Steve Bartman.

However what this man did was bear false witness, he singed a complaint. He said that he was being harassed etc...

So I think a little street justice is in order. Let him know what it means to be harassed.

But I'm sure cooler heads will prevail.

Mark said...

So what does the ACLU have to say about these flagrant violations of civil rights???

David Wood said...

Mark,

Scroll through the posts. The ACLU is on our side.

Anthony Rogers said...

The Fat Man,

No, that site does not represent the group Roger Williams is with. See the following article: here

As for how to do links, send me an e-mail and I will explain it that way. I can't do it here because when I go to explain it it thinks I am actually trying to make a link and messes it up. You'll see what I mean when I explain the steps.

Smprparatus@aol.com

Nazam said...

Royal Son,

Copies of Josh McDowell's book, "More Than a Carpenter" were being distributed at his booth. Also one of my friends from Westbourne Baptist Church was handing out Christian literature in Arabic at the festival.

You can go to this video and at 2 minutes and 34 seconds you can see copies of "More That a Carpenter at the booth".

Nazam said...

Sorry I forgot to post the link to the video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzh3MYv1L4A&feature=related

Lydia McGrew said...

No need for "street justice." I'm waiting for the details, but if this person Roger Williams actually knowingly put in a false criminal report about Acts 17, this would in itself be a crime. Cannot charges be pressed on that basis against him, individually?

The Fat Man said...

Lydia

I was thinking that myself. That he singed a complaint saying these things are true. After David and Crew are exonerated, "Justified" from these accusations I hope they file charges against "Roger Williams" for filing a false police report, defamation of character, slander, libel and anything else.

But with that said and done I think a little street i.e internet justice is in order.