Tuesday, June 22, 2010

Thomas More Law Center Represents Four Christian Missionaries Arrested at Arab Festival in Dearborn

ANN ARBOR, MI – In what some have described as police enforcement of Sharia law at the annual Dearborn Arab International Festival, last Friday night Dearborn Police Officers arrested four Christian missionaries and illegally confiscated their video cameras which were recording the events surrounding their arrests. The Thomas More Law Center, a public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan, today announced it is representing all of the Christian missionaries.

Arrested on charges of Breach of the Peace are: Negeen Mayel, Dr. Nabeel Qureshi, Paul Rezkalla, and David Wood. Mayel, an eighteen year old female, whose parents emigrated from Afghanistan and a recent convert from Islam to Christianity, was also charged with failure to obey a police officer’s orders. She was approximately 100 feet away and videotaping a discussion with some Muslims when her camera was seized.

Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Thomas More Law Center, commented, “These Christian missionaries were exercising their Constitutional rights to free speech and the free exercise of religion, but apparently the Constitution carries little weight in Dearborn, where the Muslim population seems to dominate the political apparatus. It’s apparent that these arrests were a retaliatory action over the embarrassing video of the strong arm tactics used last year by Festival Security Guards. This time, the first thing police officers did before making the arrests was to confiscate the video cameras in order to prevent a recording of what was actually happening.”

Thompson continued, “Contrary to the comments made by Police Chief Ron Haddad, our Constitution does not allow police to ban the right of free speech just because there are some hecklers. Not all police officers approve of the way their department treated these Christians.”

Robert Muise, Senior Trial Counsel with the Law Center in charge of the case, yesterday faxed a letter to Chief Haddad demanding that the three video cameras and tapes illegally seized from the missionaries be immediately returned.

The Law Center is also representing Pastor George Saeig who was prohibited by the Festival and Police authorities from distributing religious material at last year’s festival. That case is ongoing.

The Thomas More Law Center defends and promotes America’s Christian heritage and moral values, including the religious freedom of Christians, time-honored family values, and the sanctity of human life. It supports a strong national defense and an independent and sovereign United States of America. The Law Center accomplishes its mission through litigation, education, and related activities. It does not charge for its services. The Law Center is supported by contributions from individuals, corporations and foundations, and is recognized by the IRS as a section 501(c)(3) organization. You may reach the Thomas More Law Center at (734) 827-2001 or visit our website at www.thomasmore.org.

39 comments:

Laura J. Davis said...

I'm glad to see you are getting some representation. People need to be aware of what's going on.

mkvine said...

AMEN, I'm so glad they are challenging oppression! This just made my day :)

Radical Moderate said...

Wow David and Crew are pulling out the Big Guns. COME OUT FIRING WITH BOTH BARRELS :)

Matlin said...

Things are getting very interesting, here comes the fun part. One man with God is majority!

goethechosemercy said...

This is indeed the feast day of St. Thomas More, who remained adherent to the Catholic Church and sacrificed everything for orthodoxy in England.

Tizita said...

attention everyone!!!
we have a new member in Heaven. My bus driver accepted Christ Jesus as his Lord and Savior today!!!
After talking abt what Jesus had done for him to save him from hell, he asked me if he can accept Christ Jesus as his Lord and Savior RIGHT NOW. I was shocked that he said right now so I said yes, and right there in the buss he he asked me to help him pray for he didn't know what to say.
And i prayed for him asking him to repeat after me and after words he said to me, i have always prayed but something feels different this time in my hear.
I just got home from work and today has got to be one of the happiest days of my life! I have been asking the Lord if he can just show me one person just one person that i witness to come to Christ, for many years, and finally today he answered my prayer.
People all i can say is Jesus is great, Jesus answers prayers, Jesus, saves and Jesus listens!
Even through his broken English my buss driver understood what i was telling him abt Christ Jesus. Not only do the angels in heavens rejoice, but one more soul is snatched from the grip of hell!
I ask my brothers and sisters in Christ now to pray for him. B/c he is very very fragile right now. Satan is made and will do anything to get him back. he is gonna feel weak, he might even doubt because he doesn't see an immediate change. and satan will use that to torment him, so pray the Lord will tighten His grip on him.
I'll see him more often and will encourage him more. YAY!!!!! WOOOOOOO!!!!! I'M SO EXCITED!!!!!!
Thank you Lord, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

Traeh said...

Gotta love the Thomas More Law Center, they've been doing important stuff, and not only this case. Hurray!

bmedina said...

David i know this whole ordeal is outrageous, upsetting, an quite frankly ridiculous. But persecution is a part of Christianity, in fact it fulfills scripture. I was persecuted for speaking gods word in my Catholic school, so it doesn't surprise me that the police came for you all for confessing our lord and savior- its just the name of the game. I will keep praying for all of you
stay safe
B

Anonymous said...

Let us stand with the Dearborn 4. I saw Nabeel he hauled away by police officers in Dearborn. I guess we should now referr to Dearborn as Shariah in the City

Unknown said...

I was arrested once for preaching the gospel in Berkeley. I tape recorded the conversation with the police. The police confiscated my tape recorder and erased the tape. The charges were thrown out because the police destroyed evidence. In your case, the police interfered with your ability to prove your case, by illegally confiscating your video camera. The charges should be thrown out on this basis.

Unknown said...

Why is a Liberal Activist Law Firm defending these Christian Conservatives? Out of the goodness of their hearts? That's not the liberals we know and love.

I suspect the real reason is that this case upholds their deconstructionist view of the Constitution. The first amendment doesn't apply here, but conservatives won't challenge it because our friends are the defendants. It's the perfect case for liberals to hold up against us in the future.

Here's what Thomas Jefferson said, about exactly this issue.

“Resolved, That it is true as a general principle, and is also expressly declared by one of the amendments to the Constitutions, that “the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, our prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people; and that no power over the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or freedom of the press being delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, all lawful powers respecting the same did of right remain, and were reserved to the States or the people: that thus was manifested their determination to retain to themselves the right of judging how far the licentiousness of speech and of the press may be abridged without lessening their useful freedom, and how far those abuses which cannot be separated from their use should be tolerated, rather than the use be destroyed. And thus also they guarded against all abridgment by the United States of the freedom of religious opinions and exercises, and retained to themselves the right of protecting the same, as this State, by a law passed on the general demand of its citizens, had already protected them from all human restraint or interference. And that in addition to this general principle and express declaration, another and more special provision has been made by one of the amendments to the Constitution, which expressly declares, that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press”: thereby guarding in the same sentence, and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press: insomuch, that whatever violated either, throws down the sanctuary which covers the others, arid that libels, falsehood, and defamation, equally with heresy and false religion, are withheld from the cognizance of federal tribunals. That, therefore, the act of Congress of the United States, passed on the 14th day of July, 1798, intituled “An Act in addition to the act intituled An Act for the punishment of certain crimes against the United States,” which does abridge the freedom of the press, is not law, but is altogether void, and of no force.”

X-ile said...

Some Advice: Look into wireless cameras with remote recording capabilities. As they get to recognize you they will go for your hardware straight out, to eliminate any evidence. With remote record you will at least have the initial attack recorded.

otto said...

Whereas -- this is what Yahweh, God of Israel, declares -- I had promised that your family and your father's family would walk in my presence for ever, now, however -- this is what Yahweh declares -- nothing of the sort! Those who honour me I honour in my turn, and those who despise me will be an object of contempt. [1Samuel 2:30]

'So if anyone declares himself for me in the presence of human beings, I will declare myself for him in the presence of my Father in heaven. 'No one who prefers father or mother to me is worthy of me. No one who prefers son or daughter to me is worthy of me. Anyone who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of me. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it. [Matthew 10:32,37-39]

Blessed is anyone who perseveres when trials come. Such a person is of proven worth and will win the prize of life, the crown that the Lord has promised to those who love him. [James 1:12]

Do not be afraid of the sufferings that are coming to you. Look, the devil will send some of you to prison to put you to the test, and you must face hardship for ten days. Even if you have to die, keep faithful, and I will give you the crown of life for your prize. [Revelation 2:10]

The temporary, light burden of our hardships is earning us for ever an utterly incomparable, eternal weight of glory, [2Corinthians 4:17]

so that the worth of your faith, more valuable than gold, which is perishable even if it has been tested by fire, may be proved -- to your praise and honour when Jesus Christ is revealed. [1Peter 1:7]

Apollos26 said...

Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!

RaymondofCanada said...

Guys, you are on the right track. There should be Christian pastors and evangelists in jail with you for preaching the truth. Control your frustration as the blind are exactly that. Those whose eyes have been open by the Truth know the Way and have Life. God bless.

Verumi said...

Kate, that's wonderful news! Thank you for sharing it with us. It made my day!

Kate said...

As a freelance writer, I value the freedom of speech guaranteed in our constitution more than a lot of folks. As a born again Christian, I am daily thankful for the constitution's provisions of freedom of religion. As the first born child of a soldier who fought against tyranny and communism in Naples, Italy in WWll...I am horrified by this trampling of our constitutional rights... This must stop NOW! Every American who values their Judeo-Christian heritage should join with this group in their future outreaches in Dearborn. Please count me in. I am Kate Wells and I am ready to take a stand. This is an abomination.

Kate said...

As a freelance writer, I value the freedom of speech guaranteed in our constitution more than a lot of folks. As a born again Christian, I am daily thankful for the constitution's provisions of freedom of religion. As the first born child of a soldier who fought against tyranny and communism in Naples, Italy in WWll...I am horrified by this trampling of our constitutional rights... This must stop NOW! Every American who values their Judeo-Christian heritage should join with this group in their future outreaches in Dearborn. Please count me in. I am Kate Wells and I am ready to take a stand. This is an abomination.

Kid Icarus said...

In addition to the group here/acts 17 lying about what happened there, it's worth pointing out that, as opposed to the dozens of evangelists openly and tirelessly trying to convert Muslims for three days straight(such as those with former muslims there, josh mcdowell's group, etc), the media whores/act 17 spent all of about 1 hour there, and tried to take credit for some so called persecution. They went so far in terms of circumventing the process/permit requirements for all other Muslims AND Christians there, as demanding MORE rights than all of them.

In other words, none of the work, all of the credit. Shameless.

Conveniently, their video failed to show them when they first left the main tent and sat on a wall arguing with little kids. They sure looked unhappy when they couldn't film themselves causing a stir. I saw all of this occur.

The tragedy here is no one on the national media knows about those biblical Christians there openly trying to convert Muslims for the entirety of the festival, just the act 17 charlatans who lose interest in the lost when they can't get on video.

Sad, sad. We can rest in the fact that God knows what happened and one day they'll have to answer for it.

Lydia McGrew said...

A reader at my blog has suggested that we start a letter-writing campaign to Dearborn city officials about this--demanding false arrest charges, etc. I would say also demanding an apology and concrete, credible assurances that nothing like this will happen in future years, that Christians at the Arab Festival, even those who leave the "reservation" and wander around on public streets daring to talk to Muslims, yes, even videotaping, will be protected, not arrested. What do the (good) readers here think? Would this be a good thing to do, perhaps letters to the Mayor of Dearborn?

I hope Thomas More has some good lawsuit plans in the works, here. If they simply drop the charges and destroy your video, they can try to drop this thing down the memory hole and just harass you or others in exactly the same way every single time--arrest, erase video, drop charges.

Lydia McGrew said...

By the way, Powerline has a very sympathetic post up on this that I think a lot of people are seeing, but it's somewhat inaccurate. It portrays the video of the police stopping the distribution of Gospels of John as the video of "the arrest." Anybody know how to contact them to suggest a correction?

John Lollard said...

"In addition to the group here/acts 17 lying about what happened there"

There are videos of what happened. Acts 17 keeps insisting on getting the videos back so that they can be viewed as evidence of what really happened. I for one would like to see them. They will show show is lying.

"the media whores/act 17 spent all of about 1 hour there, and tried to take credit for some so called persecution."

So they were there for only an hour before being evicted from the grounds and having their cameras illegally seized and then led off in handcuffs, and you don't see this as actual persecution?

"We can rest in the fact that God knows what happened and one day they'll have to answer for it."

Indeed. And so do the video cameras. I'm looking forward to viewing the video evidence that they captured, and then I will also know what happened.

Love in Christ,
JL

John Lollard said...

Also, this:

"Conveniently, their video failed to show them when they first left the main tent and sat on a wall arguing with little kids."

vs

"just the act 17 charlatans who lose interest in the lost when they can't get on video."

So they were witnessing to lost children without being on video, but at the same time they lose interest in the lost when they cannot be on video? Which is it, because I see a glaring contradiction there.

mkvine said...

Spiffy the Basset,

You said: "In addition to the group here/acts 17 lying about what happened there"

So...what exactly did they lie about? Let me guess, another empty assertion with no evidence? Please start providing proof, this is gettin annoying.

You said: "the media whores/act 17"

Ahh, I can see your true colors are coming out. In other words, the reason you have been attacking Acts 17 is NOT because they did something wrong, its because you don't like them. Hmm, I see. No wonder you make empty assertion about them without providing evidence; you're just trying to lie about them, I get it!

You said: "tried to take credit for some so called persecution. They went so far in terms of circumventing the process/permit requirements for all other Muslims AND Christians there, as demanding MORE rights than all of them."

Nowhere did Acts 17 say "we deserve all the credit." Can you please show us where they said that? Besides, I'm sure they will be the first ones to say that ANYONE who was persecuted deserves credit and fair treatment. Also, they weren't looking for "credit" they were merely presenting the injustice that happened at the festival. If presenting facts is something that you do not like, then now I know where all your empty statements come from :)In regards to demanding "more" rights, nowhere did they say this. In fact, their whole point was to demand EQUAL rights for ANY religious group. The fact that specifically christians were treated unfair at the festival, shows that the festival and the police department violated the christians' equal rights, for which Acts 17 is trying to stand up for. But maybe you don't see that and maybe thats exactly what you want, who knows.

You said: "Conveniently, their video failed to show them when they first left the main tent and sat on a wall arguing with little kids."

I kinda guessed that this was going to be another empty statement with no evidence, I'm not surprised. And EVEN IF it were true, I don't see how that warrants an arrest, do you? Maybe you think it does...

You said: "The tragedy here is no one on the national media knows about those biblical Christians there openly trying to convert Muslims for the entirety of the festival, just the act 17 charlatans who lose interest in the lost when they can't get on video."

Yes, it is a tragedy that the national media is unaware about this, otherwise the festival and the police would have been exposed for unfair treatment. Ohh, is Acts 17 getting NATIONAL media attention? I didn't know that, could you provide me a link? IF that is TRUE, then I'm glad they are getting the media attention, finally America will realize the injustices the Dearborn festival and that police have been doing. Thank God!

You said: "Sad, sad. We can rest in the fact that God knows what happened and one day they'll have to answer for it."

And we can rest assured that if Acts 17 get their cameras back, we will know exactly what happened. And I'm willing to bet that Acts 17 will not change their story of what happened. As for you, I wouldn't be surprised if you changed the story, stop commenting on here anymore, or come up with some excuse. But only time will tell ;)

Traeh said...

Spiffy, because of the legal case, Acts17 has probably been told by lawyers not to speak publicly about the case. Members of Acts17 probably cannot here defend themselves against your attacks and claims. I presume you do believe a person should have the right to answer his accusers? Well, I don't think David can answer you now. I find it interesting that David continues to publish your attacks, though he is not in a position to defend himself against them. I also find it interesting that, given that circumstance, you continue to attack him.

Anyway, Spiffy, you need to distinguish several issues:

1. I don't know if it's true, but even if it's true, as you claim, that Acts17 used a misguided method or performed poorly as Christian preachers, their legal rights to free speech have been trampled. That is an ongoing problem with Islam: it often tramples free speech. But you do not seem to think that issue has any importance here. That's a mistake.

2. Is it possible that you just object to a style of preaching or an understanding of Christianity that is different from your own? And you are turning that disagreement into something where you think your viewpoint should be backed by police power? You don't distinguish between what you want and what the police did. One could easily get the idea that you support the police action in arresting Acts17 and confiscating their cameras. In supporting the arrest, or failing to say that you think it was wrong and a trampling of the First Amendment, you also make a mistake.

Spiffy, could you name the other Christian groups and the former-Muslims group that was there? Do you know where a list of the groups can be found online, or anywhere else?

Radical Moderate said...

Walter L. Brown Jr. said...
Why is a Liberal Activist Law Firm defending these Christian Conservatives? Out of the goodness of their hearts? That's not the liberals we know and love.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. WHAT LIBERAL ACTIVIST LAW FIRM? I don't like to use the terms liberal and conservative but this is from the post by the Thomson More Law center.

"The Thomas More Law Center defends and promotes America’s Christian heritage and moral values, including the religious freedom of Christians, time-honored family values, and the sanctity of human life. It supports a strong national defense and an independent and sovereign United States of America."

I don't think any of them could call these liberal values.

Go sell crazy some place else we are all booked up here.

1211 said...

To "Spiffy the Basset", before you accuse those involved with Acts 17 that they lose interest with the "lost" when there is no video you should spend some time with these fellow Christians. I know one personally, Nabeel, and he is in Nicaragua right not with a group of youths from his church ministering to the lost WITHOUT video. I've seen him do numerous other things with the youth in our church as well as they go out reaching the lost without a video camera documenting the Lord's work so please don't assume these Christian's are doing it for recognition when you don't know anything about them personally. They are doing it only because they feel it's something that God has led them to do and for the purpose of leading the lost to our Lord Jesus Christ and speaking the truth. Maybe everyone doesn't necessarily agree with them in the manner they do this but they believe in their hearts God has called them to do this. I'm sure that they also are burdened by the fact of how they know some Muslim's in other democratic countries want to suppress other religious belief's which is a fact and they don't want to see America end up the same way.

CharlesMartel said...

It is odd, isn't it?, not only that a self-designated dog likes to call other people whores, but that he even wants to complain that other people are glory (basset) hounds because people like himself did more work at the Festival while others are stealing the spotlight. Who knew that envy was at the bottom of all his barking? (By the way, no one should mistake Spiffy's misuse of the other Christian groups at the Festival with the idea that all those other groups disagree with what the Acts17 group did. They were not all drooling over any possible media attention like Spiffy apparently was.)

And talk about something being shameless! Few things are more shameless than being willing to throw other brother's and sisters under the bus and give enemies of the gospel the false impression that Christ's Kingdom is divided. (Think not? Just look at all the Muslims who are seizing upon Spiffy's (and other people's) remarks to bolster their longstanding hatred for the ministry of Acts17.)

Unfortunately for all of them, Christ's Kingdom will stand in spite of the efforts of those who fight His Kingdom from without. It will also stand in spite of those who have infiltrated her ranks and who seek to fight her from within.

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."

Unknown said...

This is comical to me. You should go join al qaeda, this is a website for religious extremists... go wear turbans and dance in the desert with osama...

Tea Party Movie said...

What is happening in my beloved Michigan? I grew up in Ann Arbor during the 1960's. I remember all the protests and my hippie older brothers smoking' pot on the diag. "Freedom" was the theme then, but not today. Students' should be all over what's happening in Dearborn! They should be out protesting, angry, shouting down the "intolerance." But, many are sinful, selfish and without God's word to provide the backbone to stand up and defend free speech and liberty. I'm a Tea Party Patriot, and the behavior of the Dearborn police, and the Arabs living there, really angers me. God save this country. Forgive us, Lord.

Unknown said...

I am a retired police officer who served in the ranks of mid management for 29 years in the various divisions of a US metropolitan police department and mostly in the uniformed services division. I must admit that after a careful examination of all the various written reports and videos, (assuming that all are accurate), I must truthfully say, and I am ashamed to admit that the actions taken by the Dearborn PD is unlawful, disturbing and shocking.

Was there a conflict of interest if the officers were hired to perform private duty for the festival? Were the officers more concerned about enforcing festival rules than State and Local laws? Dirty cops are a tremendous liability for small and large municipalities and are a huge burden on taxpayers when litigations become very costly. (again assuming that the information that I have gathered is correct), the officers conduct would constitute police civil rights violations depriving the citizens of their constitutional right to free speech, freedom of movement, unlawful search and seizure of their person and property (cameras), and false imprisonment. Just to name a few.

It would have been more appropriate for the police officers, under the circumstances to protect those that are out to spread the gospel of love and peace, and rightfully arrest the hate filled individuals in the crowd with their insults and fighting words towards the missionaries.
Dereliction of duty to protect the missionaries constitutional rights in 2009 and 2010? Folks! this is serious business.

I strongly recommend that the City of Dearborn, its mayor or city council, must request a team of federal agents from the Department of Justice to conduct an independent criminal investigation regarding police corruption and misconduct. If there is probable cause to believe that the chief and his few bad apples are guilty of corruption, misconduct, and dereliction of duty, they must be prosecuted and must face severe criminal and civil penalties. God bless and save America.

minoria said...

I think Spiffy is a Muslim.They have the habit of calling non-Muslims "liars" all the time.Even when you present them with facts.In the Spanish-language forum I participate I get called that all the time,and worse,even though the info I give can be verified easily(they don't try or they don't care to).

His behaviour is not that of a Christian.It is that of a Muslim trying pretending to be one.

NEWS
Spain has BANNED the BURKA,like BELGIUM.Great news,a terrorist can use it to blow himself(or HERSELF)up(several robberies have been done with men in burkas,in the West).

Fernando said...

Hi mike... can you explain your oppinion withe examples? thankes...


Hi kate... I share your joy and will, noo doubte, be praying for your bus driver... may God be glorified...

Hi Spiffy the Basset... you're just kidding, righte? no one can bee just so ignorante and hill-tempered...

Unknown said...

My appologies to the Thomas More Law Center, I was badly in error... Thanks to all those who pointed out my glaring mistake. In fact, much to my surprise the Thomas More Law Center is quite different that I expected and somewhat unique. I made a bad assumption, and made and A__ out of myself, not exactly my brightest moment. My appologies to those that I offended, I'm not really a bad guy, just a little lazy.
Sincerely,
Walter

Unknown said...

My appologies to the Thomas More Law Center, I was badly in error... Thanks to all those who pointed out my glaring mistake. In fact, much to my surprise the Thomas More Law Center is quite different that I expected and somewhat unique. I made a bad assumption, and made and A__ out of myself, not exactly my brightest moment. My appologies to those that I offended, I'm not really a bad guy, just a little lazy.
Sincerely,
Walter

Unknown said...

The point that I completely failed to make that one of the tools to resist the spread of Islam a barbaric socio-political system hiding behing a fascade of a religion and the protection of the 1st amendment, is the correct interpretation of the 1st amendment. My position, advocated on via my weblog, and the American Defense League (ADL) facebook page, among other places is: It is correct and legal for State and Local Governments to order the closure of all Islamic Organizations in their districts. This is not a violation of the 1st amendment, which is a restriction on Congress only, and certainly not on state or local governments. The Dearborn Sherriff is he so chooses, could close all Islamic organization in the city/county after finding them to be Public Saftety Hazzards. The fact that an organizations calls itself a religion has no importance in this action, taken to defend the public safety. Thomas Jefferson made exactly this same point. I suspect my earlier ignorance has probably destroyed any hope of communicating what was actually important to say, and I truly regret that and appologize again for my mischaracterization of the Thomas More Law Center.
Sincerely and more-humbly,
Walter L. Brown Jr.

The Berean Search said...

Spiffy,

Let's grant, for the sake of argument, that Acts17 are "media whores" and they are full of all kinds of selfish intentions for notoriety and every other motive you attribute to them with your mind-reading skills.

Now that we have granted all that, can you please explain to me why the Constitutional rights of "media whores" and people with intentions you don't like are any less equal under the law than the rights of everyone else?

(and for the record, I obviously do not agree with Spiffy's position regarding Acts17's motives)

The Berean Search said...

Tea Party Movie,

For some odd reason all those students and activists you are counting on to speak up seem more interesting in siding with groups whose mission aligns with advancing Sharia in this country.

It makes no sense to me. Sharia is against everything their world view stands for, and Sharia makes the most conservative politicians in the U.S. look like one of those hippy love-ins you mentioned from the 60's.

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