Thursday, June 24, 2010

Comment from a Retired Police Officer

After our arrest, my friend Paul (one of the Freedom Four, arrested for being Christian) said to me: "After meeting the Dearborn Police, I've never had so much respect for New York Police!"

Amen to that. I live in the Bronx. Paul lives in Brooklyn. We take police officers for granted around here. But witnessing firsthand the corruption, deception, and rights violations of the Dearborn Police (especially the Chief of Police), we couldn't be more thankful that New York's finest are much better people.

I received a message on my phone from a police officer in New York. He said that he and some of his fellow officers had watched the videos, and that they are outraged. I'm going to see if I can get an interview with them.

In the meantime, a retired police officer named Joe left this comment to a recent post:

I am a retired police officer who served in the ranks of mid management for 29 years in the various divisions of a US metropolitan police department and mostly in the uniformed services division. I must admit that after a careful examination of all the various written reports and videos, (assuming that all are accurate), I must truthfully say, and I am ashamed to admit that the actions taken by the Dearborn PD is unlawful, disturbing and shocking.

Was there a conflict of interest if the officers were hired to perform private duty for the festival? Were the officers more concerned about enforcing festival rules than State and Local laws? Dirty cops are a tremendous liability for small and large municipalities and are a huge burden on taxpayers when litigations become very costly. (again assuming that the information that I have gathered is correct), the officers conduct would constitute police civil rights violations depriving the citizens of their constitutional right to free speech, freedom of movement, unlawful search and seizure of their person and property (cameras), and false imprisonment. Just to name a few.

It would have been more appropriate for the police officers, under the circumstances to protect those that are out to spread the gospel of love and peace, and rightfully arrest the hate filled individuals in the crowd with their insults and fighting words towards the missionaries.

Dereliction of duty to protect the missionaries constitutional rights in 2009 and 2010? Folks! this is serious business.

I strongly recommend that the City of Dearborn, its mayor or city council, must request a team of federal agents from the Department of Justice to conduct an independent criminal investigation regarding police corruption and misconduct. If there is probable cause to believe that the chief and his few bad apples are guilty of corruption, misconduct, and dereliction of duty, they must be prosecuted and must face severe criminal and civil penalties. God bless and save America.


Addendum from Nabeel: I want to comment and say some of the police officers were very kind to us and are good men. This post, as far as I believe David intends it, is in no way a criticism of all the individual people working in the Dearborn police department, just the Dearborn police as a system. My personal judgment of the Chief of Police is somewhat more reserved than David's, but I concur that he has been misleading in his statements to the media concerning us, as well as misleading in his statements to me personally.

Addendum from David: Some of the police officers were indeed kind (while they were putting us in jail on false charges). As far as I'm concerned, however, the moment they put their hands on my little Christian sister when she was doing absolutely nothing wrong, they crossed a line that should never be crossed. They violated our rights. Being nice is no defense.

28 comments:

Lydia McGrew said...

This is a great comment. I think we should get some addresses for contact people in Dearborn (such as the mayor, etc.) and start a letter-writing campaign to this effect.

1moremuslim said...

"The “King of Kings” statue — also dubbed “Touchdown Jesus” burned down to ashes due to lightening on Monday."

It seems like God is on the side of the Dearborn police, hitting Churches with thunder, and reduces them to ashes.

luvinjesus said...

Yes, corruption exists when Christians cease being the salt and Light, and the Body of the Risen, incorruptible Lord. About 10 years ago, i started a letter writing campaign to believers (mostly pastors) to awaken them to the fact that Ephesus was abandoned by God, (where is it today? How did Asia Minor become so full of Muslims? they are a judgment from God to a people who had the very best sent to them.) But my letters were either ignored or just plain refuted with lines like, 'we are one body'. (One body has only one Head, and moves in only one direction)or, 'we don't have any idols in our midst'. (what is in the harour outside New york city? Is that not a huge idol modeled after the very one that the people of Ephesus tore down when convicted by the excellent preaching of Paul the Apostle?)
Where there is garbage, rats will come. time to get rid of the cause of the stench; sin within the house of God! 'Judgment is first on the house of hte Lord' (the Apostle Peter said) and, 'like a sow, having washed herself returns to the vomit.

Adam said...

1moremuslim,

"The “King of Kings” statue — also dubbed “Touchdown Jesus” burned down to ashes due to lightening on Monday."

It seems like God is on the side of the Dearborn police, hitting Churches with thunder, and reduces them to ashes
.

Where in the world are you getting these things!!!!!!

First of all, the Bible never talks about this statue directly. Second, one could argue that the fallen statue was a demonstration of God's judgment against making graven images [Exodus 20:4], which classic Christian theology prohibits.

Either way, going to something in nature like this to argue that God is on the side of the Dearborn police is absurd.

God Bless,
Adam

Haecceitas said...

This is off-topic, but what's up with your Acts 17 website? It hasn't been working for days (perhaps even longer).

Lydia McGrew said...

The chief of police has been misleading in his statements? Taqiyya.

Debbie said...

To take it a bit further, here's a news release regarding the police chief of Dearborn, Michigan, where this all occurred.

Police Chief Ronald Haddad was recently appointed to serve on the Homeland Security Advisory Council, which provides advice and recommendations to Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano on matters related to homeland security.

Lydia McGrew said...

Here is something for Thomas More, you guys, and any other lawyers you retain to be checking out:

It appears that the Dearborn police department has committed a "color of law" violation of civil rights, which should be investigated by the FBI. See this link:

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm

Here are some fascinating quotations:

"Preventing abuse of this authority, however, is equally necessary to the health of our nation’s democracy. That’s why it’s a federal crime for anyone acting under “color of law” willfully to deprive or conspire to deprive a person of a right protected by the Constitution or U.S. law. “Color of law” simply means that the person is using authority given to him or her by a local, state, or federal government agency."

" A law enforcement official using authority provided under the color of law is allowed to stop individuals and, under certain circumstances, to search them and retain their property. It is in the abuse of that discretionary power—such as an unlawful detention or illegal confiscation of property—that a violation of a person's civil rights may occur."

HT for the link to a reader at Atlas Shrugs

hugh watt said...

1moremuslim said...

"The “King of Kings” statue — also dubbed “Touchdown Jesus” burned down to ashes due to lightening on Monday."

It seems like God is on the side of the Dearborn police, hitting Churches with thunder, and reduces them to ashes."

June 24, 2010 11:07 AM

But before this said:

"1moremuslim said...
Considering these incidents:
-Arizona mosque targeted in "acid bomb" attack.
- Explosion at local mosque, search for suspects, JACKSONVILLE, Fla.
Do you know how many Mosques were vandalized in the last few years? how many Muslims beaten or arrested for being Muslim in the street?
Do you see Muslims crying out " INQUISITION in the USA"?
Stop these childish complaints."

June 24, 2010 10:34 AM

Should we conclude, using your logic of course;
It seems like Allah is on the side of the non-Muslim, hitting Mosques with vandalism, and reducing them to ashes?

Dave C said...

http://belowthebeltway.com/2010/03/31/ten-rules-for-dealing-with-the-police/


There's about an 80 minute video here.. (40 of it actual documentary with the other 40 of a Q and A period) On knowing your rights when dealing with the police.

Christians trying to evangelize weren't the intended target of the film but it's worth watching nevertheless.

I hope this can help.

Dave C said...

I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves

Nakdimon said...

Nabeel and David,

I dont know if you guys are aware of Yahya Snow's bogus and completely nonsensical "defense" of Awal and his withdrawal after the beatdown he got in the first debate: http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/06/dr-james-white-vents-fury-at-sheikh.html

In spite of Yahya Snow's repeated claim of rationality of his own position, his purported good spirited "rebukes" towards Dr White and his repeated claim of supposed "unjust" behavior of Dr White it is actually Yahya Snow's allegations towards Dr White and you guys that are unjust, unwarranted and unfounded, showing a bad spirited attitude. While Yahya wants, no, demands from Dr White to openly denounce you guys, no Muslim apologist has spoken out and denounced Zakir Naik and his condoning terrorism which got him banned from the UK. So I think we can safely say that, accotding to Yahya and the Muslims that agree with him, we can hold Muslim apologists accountable for what other Muslims do, since the acts of other Muslims would inflame the already heated atmosphere between Christians and Muslims because of the " vocal and aggressive supporters" of the Muslims.

Take a look at the article of Yahya and his pathetic excuse, claiming and demanding justice while his own article lacks any sense justice whatsoever.

Nakdimon

Steve said...

Isn't it shameful that purportedly Christian people would dis-obey a legal order requiring they maintain a distance from this Muslim festival site? I wonder if these purportedly Christian missionaries read much of Paul's writings? Can they point to his use of flagrant confrontational tactics in sharing the Good News -- if not, why do they persist in their desire to be so confrontational?

David Wood said...

Hi Steve,

When were we told to maintain a distance from the festival? When we were told to move five blocks away, we did. We never disobeyed police officers. So are you deliberately misrepresenting things?

mkvine said...

Hey guys,

Did you know that in 1941 that the Kaaba in Mecca was flooded? Yeah, I guess Allah wasn't on the side of the Kaaba. Maybe its because the Kaaba was a pagan shrine?

Check out these pictures:

http://ali-ameer.tripod.com/images/islam/mecca-kaaba_1941_deluge.jpg
http://image10.webshots.com/11/6/21/73/181962173YCcWgw_ph.jpg

http://istighfar.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/1401247982_3db4faa70e.jpg

and I guess Allah didn't protect the Kabba from floods, but hey, he didn't protect these mosques either:

http://www.civildefence.govt.nz/memwebsite07.nsf/Files/Photo_library_International/$file/banda%20ache%20mosque.jpg

http://medya.todayszaman.com/todayszaman/2009/09/03/quake-in-indonesia-35.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41197000/jpg/_41197106_pakistanafp.jpg

http://seismo.berkeley.edu/~rallen/pub/2005olson/press/MSNBC_files/051109_earthquake_hlg_11a.hmedium.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42441000/jpg/_42441700_zmosque-ap.jpg

I think you get the picture. Double standards anyone? :D

John Lollard said...

"Can they point to his use of flagrant confrontational tactics in sharing the Good News -- if not, why do they persist in their desire to be so confrontational?"

It is really getting frustrating how many people feel obligated to comment without having ever read the book of Acts.

Did Paul do things flagrantly confrontational? Yes! So did all of the Apostles! The Apostles are rebuked and arrested by the Sanhedrin multiple times and yet persist in going into the Temple courts and publicly proclaiming the message that they have been ordered not to proclaim. I.e. Acts 5:40,41. Or Stephen's speech to the Sanhedrin, in particular Acts 7:51-53.

Over and over, the Apostles get arrested, escape from jail or are released with the command to stop preaching Jesus, and yet they just go out and do it anyway, usually in the most confrontational place possible such as the Jerusalem Temple, inside of synagogues, on marketplaces, Roman palaces, and the Greek Aeropagus. Everywhere that Paul went he caused riots among both Greeks and Jews.

The entire book of Acts - as well as the first two hundred years of Christian history - can basically be summed up by Romans and Jews commanding Christians to stop, imprisoning, beating, stoning, torturing, murdering Christians to stop, and Christians doing so anyway in direct defiance of both Jewish and Roman authorities. Christians gladly risked the deaths that awaited them to proclaim Iesu Kurias - Jesus is Lord - knowing full well that it was forbidden by Caesar and forbidden by the Sanhedrin. They got together and prayed and worshipped Jesus Christ knowing all the while that it was Against The Law.

So flatly, yes, Christians are to defy the authorities to preach the Good News. To do so is biblical and historically is how the first followers of Christ behaved. To be arrested for doing so is an honor, something that the Apostles received with gladness and thanksgiving.

I cannot understand how anyone who truly loves the Gospel of Our Lord can express reproach or shame on men and women who did nothing wrong, harmed no one, interfered with no one, insulted no one, slandered no one, merely spoke the Gospel and for doing so were arrested. I look forward to the video evidence that will vindicate them and show their gentle and respectful behavior.

In the meantime, people need to read the Bible better, particularly when it comes to the Apostle's behavior.

Love in Christ,
JL

Lydia McGrew said...

I was intrigued by this "refusing to obey a police officer's order" charge against Nageen. There's gotta be some interpretation in law that says that has to be a _reasonable_ order. It cannot be the case that a police officer can walk up to any young woman and give her any order he wants to give her, and if she doesn't obey it _instantly_ and without any hesitation, he can throw her in jail. The obvious problems with such a law scarcely need to be mentioned. Do they?

minoria said...

Hello:

Yahya Snow is right in his blog about the bad behaviour of ERGUN CANER,confirmed by James White,that he has actually lied in 20 different details concerning life.It is shocking,and Caner is a high official in the famous Liberty University,in Virginia(where GARY HABERMAS teaches).Caner should be fired.

But his idea that Nabeel and David did something wrong is not convincing.When Muslims are the majority things are bad for us non-Muslims,sooner or later.

Fernando said...

Between the Kaaba and a simple statue... man... this 1more muslim is eatting his own words off malice...

thecodemonk said...

I have written a letter to the State of Michigan's Attorney General. I suggest all of you do the same. This isn't something that a local court can fix.

Confident Christianity said...

Haecceitas - the website seems to be working fine. Perhaps your server is experiencing problems? Or a computer issue?

Ryft Braeloch said...

Attention: Nabeel and David

See if you can forward this information to Senior Trial Counsel Robert Muise (Thomas More Law Center), as it pertains directly to your constitutional case. When it comes to a ‘hostile audience’ situation (emphasis mine), "the Court once sustained a conviction for disorderly conduct of one who refused police demands to cease speaking after his speech seemingly stirred numbers of his listeners to mutterings and threatened disorders. But this case has been significantly limited by cases which hold protected the peaceful expression of views which stirs people to anger because of the content of the expression, or perhaps because of the manner in which it is conveyed, and that breach of the peace and disorderly conduct statutes may not be used to curb such expression."

For more information and relevant case law, see “Fighting Words and Other Threats to the Peace,” from Annotated Constitution (2000) by Congressional Research Service.

Our site broke the news of your arrest Friday night within hours of it happening, almost two days ahead of the media, and we have been keeping you in our prayers ever since. May the peace of Christ be with you.

The Fat Man said...

Ryft Braeloch said...

"the Court once sustained a conviction for disorderly conduct of one who refused police demands to cease speaking after his speech seemingly stirred numbers of his listeners to mutterings and threatened disorders"

It is true that you can get arrested for your own good and safety on a DO charge. However in most if not all cases it is after being warned.

Look at the video that was posted on this blog on RM heckling the Shia marchers. The police warned them and one police officer told them "So you know when I arrest you"

That's the point with this, from David, Nabeels and others testimony Nabeel was not warned by the police to cease and desist. No warning was given they were simply arrested.

Haecceitas said...

Confident Christianity,

It still doesn't work here. But it seems that I can access the site via a US proxy. I wonder if any other European viewers are having problems.

stevegrifftx said...

I hope a lawsuit against the City of Dearbon has been or will be filed. A Conservative Legal Aid & Support group e.g. Heritage Foundation can provide assistance. There may be one in Michigan. Also, Someone had suggested contacting filing a complaint with the Michigan State Attorney General as well as FBI.

Bob said...

I am not a Christian,Catholic, Protestant, Jew, or Muslim.

I find all those paths of thought and belief to meld into an over zealous attitude that tends to inflame both sides of the religious fence.

Instead of getting thrown in jail for doing something you KNEW would get you trouble (you knew the attitude of the PD BEFORE you went there)why not go outside the box and find a way to serve the Muslim community and SHOW them Jesus rather than hand out tracts that are certainly "branded" with your make or model of church?

Let them see your light. In the time you have taken to continue this bashing (justifiably) of the Dearborn PD, how many people could you have fed, helped, loved?

YOU ARE THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD, or at least that is what the Bible says.

Show them the light with your works and then they may consider accepting your faith.

John Lollard said...

Bob,

The "tracts" they were handing out were the Gospel of John, written in both English and Arabic.

I'm sure that all of the men involved would love love love it if the Gospel of John were "branded" with their make and model of the church. I know I would :P

Here's another point of confusion. Everyone involved were arrested for preaching the Gospel two days before the incident with handing out the gospels. According to them and to other eyewitness reports, they were sharing the Gospel peacefully, repeating over and over the love that they have for their Muslim audience and the love that God has for them. Having read many things written by Nabeel, I am inclined to believe him because that does seem to be his approach to evangelism. There are at least three different video recordings of the entire visit to the festival, and I - along with everyone one else who follows this blog - am looking forward to seeing the video evidence that members of Acts 17 insists will exonerate them. I cannot think why they would be so insistent on having the video returned if they were not confident of the quality of their behavior and the loving nature in which they responded to the Muslims around them.

They were arrested in the middle of preaching the Gospel in the Arab Festival, and not for handing out gospels. They were later released and went back two days afterwards, stood outside and quietly handed out copies of the Gospel of John in both English and Arabic, when they were surrounded by police who made them turn off cameras and told them to go five blocks away in order to hand out literature.

Just wanted to get all of those details straight.

Love in Christ,
JL

fleclaire said...

Contact information for the Dearborn mayor, city council members, legal department, police department, etc. are located on this page: http://www.cityofdearborn.org/contact-us.

Contact information for the Dearborn Police Department can be found on this page: http://www.cityofdearborn.org/government/public-safety/police .

Contact information for US Senator (Mich) Debbie Stabenow is
(Washington, DC Office)
Senator Debbie Stabenow
133 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: (202) 224-4822
e-mail: senator@stabenow.senate.gov

Contact information for US Senator Carl Levin (Mich) is
269 Russell Office Building
U.S. Senate
Washington, DC 20510-2202

Phone (202) 224-6221
Fax (202) 224-1388
TTY (202) 224-2816
Email Web Form: http://levin.senate.gov/contact/