Wednesday, May 12, 2010

University of California (San Diego) MSA Student Declares Her Support for Genocide against Jews

You'd have quite a bit of trouble finding a large group of students who call for the annihilation of Muslims. Yet it's not so difficult to find a group of students supporting the annihilation of the Jews. Try the Muslim Student Association. Many MSA students come across as quite peaceful. Last year, Nabeel and I attended their annual meeting, which focused on Dawah efforts for the upcoming year, and how they can better represent Islam on campuses. If you were to walk by an MSA student, you'd think to yourself, "Here's another example of a peaceful Western Muslim, one who just wants everyone to get along." But when you dig a little deeper, you find, well, this:



****UPDATE**** I'm still waiting for all of the world's peaceful Muslims to come out and condemn this student's support for genocide. Yep, I'm waiting. Just sitting here. Waiting.

92 comments:

hugh watt said...

So there we have it. As clear as Islam doesn't want it to be known to non-Muslims! She hasn't quite perfected the art of Taqiyya; but then, that was a pretty smart man she was addressing.

minoria said...

What a world.It is hard to be a Jew.In the forum in Spain I am defending Israel or better said just giving information which to the best of my knowledge is accurate and I get called a "liar" and "ferocious wolf","you are crucifying the Palestinians",etc.

For those Muslims they are 100% innocent.I suggested they read IRSHAD MANJI's "The Trouble with Islam Today"and gave the link to her blog.

AT LEAST SHE DID NOT USE TAKIYA
You have to admire her frankness,she is as clear as AHMADINEJAD's.

NEW ARTICLE(to let the reader decide for himsef)
David,I wrote an article called "Maimonides' Opinion of Mohammed"for avraidire.eu and at the bottom gave a link to:

Your video of the Mary,sister of Aaron issue.PLUS a link to answeringmus.

PLUS a link to Yahya's response,PLUS a link to his blog PLUS a link to why I say the father of Mary was HELI,not AMRAM.

Nabeel Qureshi said...

Wow.

Adam said...

I Love Yehudi

I love Jews

Kirk said...

She's for the Jew's gathering so they can be slaughtered... Reminds me of the gatherings in showers while zyklon B gas thrown in the rooms.

Did anyone notice no one got up and beat her for her genocidal statements?

Nakdimon said...

I agree with you Nabeel: Wow!
zhe answered confident, calmly and without hessitation: Gather aal the Jews in one place and slaughter them all.

Scary.

Odo said...

"Im not sure you understood what I meant by that, I meant that If I say something I'm sure that I will be arrested, for reasons of homeland security" – oh I c, Muslims are being oppressed by homeland security. That's some compassionate taqqia for you, works right off the sympathies.

"For it" – man, that gave me a shudder of sickness down my spine. But the rightly guided professor knew what was up!

You know guys, Muslims either come to the west, some are born here, whatever, but everyone can get an education, a job, friends family and a life, safety justice and freedom, and anything else that makes the western moral what it is. Then, after acquiring all these morals, Muslims go against everything which has enabled them to even have the opinions they have in the first place, to have those mental constructs which permit them to make logical argumentation for Islam and to think abstractly. It is freely stealing and siphoning off western morals, and then it is taking those morals and crushing them in the name of Hamas and Hezbollah, and most importantly Muhammad.

Why Muslims why?

Even if you RULE THE WHOLE WORLD, you really think that the killing will stop? You really think that there will be no factions within Islam? Better yet, to all the Muslim apologists who read this, you really think that your head won't be the first one to roll for propagating false teachings about Muhammad? Don't you understand that orthodoxy is alive? Don't you know history?

Who does a Muslim pray to when another Muslim is standing over them ready to cut their head off in the name of Allah? Does that Muslim pray to Allah? The same Allah who sanctioned their head in the first place? Who is justified in their actions – the Muslim doing the cutting or the Muslim being cut? It's a catch 22, and I'm starting to think Muhammad intended it to be that way.

What in God's name have we done to God's green earth? We turned it red.

Bartimaeus said...

Notice what this tolerant and peacful Muslim woman advertised in the preamble to her question. "The MSA was hosting their annual "Hitler Youth Week". Notice this was not about the so called violation of humans rights of Palestinians in the state of Israel but rather a idealizing a man who was responsible for the extermination of six million Jews.

But this is true face of Islam and what is taught in the Quran.

The Fat Man said...

WOW... WOW

Yahya Snow said...

Minoria..

If you have your work in the English language could you give me the link

I am interested in seeing your argument for Heli

Thanks

mkvine said...

Yahya Snow, I didn't get to hear your opinion on the video, care to share it with uss?

I agree with Nabeel, just...Wow. She made me feel like vomiting just a little bit.

Ed said...

Bartimaeus,
I suspect what she said at the beginning about a Hitler Youth event was a sarcastic description of Horowitz' pamphlet characterizing the MSA. She was belittling Horowitz's fears, trying to make the audience think those fears are absurdly exaggerated. Sort as if she had said to the audience, "If you listen to Horowitz, you'll think we have an "eat live babies" conference every week." I rather doubt that the MSA is so foolish that it would have Hitler Youth events, something that would cause them huge propaganda damage.

Ironically, despite her sarcastic allusion suggesting that Horowitz's fears about Muslims are absurdly exaggerated, Horowitz at the end cleverly compelled her to show her true genocidal colors. But she had to be trapped into it.

minoria said...

Hello Yahya:
Here is the article:it is about the genealogy issue,Matthew-Luke:

http://www.avraidire.eu/2010/03/the-genealogy-issueis-there-a-contradiction-between-the-genealogy-of-matthew-and-of-luke/

Yahya Snow said...

mkvine..I disagree with the Muslim lady.
I must stress I don't like talking about political issues hence my lack of commenting concerning the wars my country (UK) is partaking in, Israel-Palestine conflict


Minoria...always a pleasure...thanks alot

I would like to ask, at this juncture (prior to viewing the link)...do you feel your article sides towards "categorical proof" or "surmising"

Thanks again

I feel I have dealt with all the facets of the "Mary:Sister of Aaron argument"...but perhaps the Heli-Amram issue should be incorporated into the work on the said argument

Sepher Shalom said...

I sincerely hope this sick-minded person never has children. The world doesn't need beliefs like this multiplying.

Sepher Shalom said...

Yahya,

Now I'm curious. Do you condemn Hizbullah? Do you condemn Hamas?

Sepher Shalom said...

I guess from the perspective of Hizbullah wishing for Jews to all gather to Israel for easier extermination is just a matter of practical convenience, based on the fact that Hizbullah believes the things Muhammad said to be true, and believes that the Muslims will have to fight and kill all the Jews before Judgement Day arrives:

Sahih al-Bukhari Book 041, Number 6985: Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

Santiaguista said...

Its shocking the intense hatred from some Muslims towards Jews. In my own experience if have noticed that many Muslims who complain about “haters” and people hating on Islam demonstrate much more hate towards Jews. I have met numerous Muslims who claim jewss did 911, the Mumbai attacks, the Bali bombings, The Madrid train bombing, the London bombings and even that mosad killed Michael Jackson for converting to islam.

It seems out of hatred of Israel some Muslims are blaming everything that goes wrong in the world on the Jews as part of a NWO conspiracy to take over the world. The frightening thing is that we have heard the same thing in the past with the Nazis. Hence this support for genocide by the MSA is not surprising. Im not saying all Muslims are anti-semites who want to massacre Jews but in my experience of attending school with Muslims and other contact I have had with them I have witnessed a very very strong hatred of jews and a tendency to make them a scapegoat for all the world problems which is something i think the Islamic clerics need to address before it gets to out of hand .

Bartimaeus said...

Ed

You may be correct about her remarks about the Hitler Youth being sarcastic but considering the pictures already posted on the internet with these same people having posters of of Hitler, Welcome to the real Holicaust, and God Bless Hitler it would not suprise me if the MSA did have a Hitler youth day. And of course her last remark revealed her true feelings.

Amr said...

Hi
I'm a Muslim, and I do, for your information, condemn illegal killing that is not sanctioned by God.
Now, I have a few questions for David:
1) Does not "God" in the Bible order the massacre of certain towns, including the donkeys?
2) Do you, as a peace wanting Christian, condemn the killing of 100,000 Iraqis in Gulf War 2?
3) Does the "reality" that Islam promotes killing mean that Islam is false?
4) Do you condemn the blasphemy of drawing Muhammad as a dog?
5) Would you condemn it if it was Jesus?
I would appreciate an answer. Thanks

Fernando said...

Someone saide: «I feel I have dealt with all the facets of the "Mary:Sister of Aaron argument"»...

all the facets... hummm... "I'm omniscient" wanted to say thate delusional someone...

Confident Christianity said...

Amr,

I know you are asking David, but I'm going to give you a few thoughts on your questions:

1)Set that question in the context of the story which takes place over 300 to 400 years. Then share with us the one-to-one you are suggesting from this story to modern day claims by Muslims to rid the earth of the Jews. I want to see how you have studied this passage, in its proper historical setting, and have still come to ask this question in relation to this particular posting.

2) This question assumes that America is Christian like Saudi Arabia is Muslim. It sets up a false premise and therefore is confused. America is not governed by the Bible as its constitution. We do not have "Christian Law Courts" like "Sharia Law Courts." America has civil law; some of which can be traced back to Christian philosophers, but some can be traced back to secular or atheist philosophers (such as the utilitarianism present in the constitution). Therefore, American's wartime efforts are not considered "Divine Command" like those of a Muslim-ruled country. So again, I'm not sure why you are pointing this out...like there is a one-to-one here. There is not. Plus, as a Christian, I do not wish for anyone to be killed, but rather to come to salvation through the Lord.

3) Please explain this question better

4) If any person does not believe in a particular religion, then they do not see it as "blasphemous" to cartoonize a particular religion's sacred figures. Doesn't that make sense? I mean, if you don't believe in something, it is not sacred to you. It is, however, disrespectful of a person's beliefs to belittle their figures.

5) I wouldn't "like" it, but Jesus tells us in Luke 6:27 to love our enemies and do good to those who persecute you. Christians are commanded by the Lord to love people who do us wrong. That's bit different from the reaction to the cartoons by Muslims.

Also, Muslims don't get upset to the point of blood shed over cartoons of Jesus. They apparently don't see the defamation of one of their prophets, Jesus, as blasphemous.

Fernando said...

@ Amr

Hi
I'm a Christian, and I do, for your information, condemn ANY KILLING.

Now, I have a few questions for you Amr:

1) Does not Alah, thate pagan god of you muslims, in the Qur'an orders the killing of all off those who reject to convert to islam or pay djizia?
2) Do you, as a muslim, condemn the killing of undred off thousand off non-muslims at the hands foo muslims every years only because thay are non-muslims?
3) Does the real reality that islam promotes killing in accordance to Alah, thate pagan god of you muslims, mean that islam is true?
4) Do you condemn the blasphemy of depicting Jesus, our common God, as a simple prophet in the qur'an and in islam?
5) Would you condemn the action thate muhammad, the normative moral example to all muslim men, has sexual intercourse withe a baby; killed and ordered the killins off people arounde him; dispised his many women; and so one?

I would appreciate an answer. Thanks

Ed said...

I wonder if Yahya Snow would have said "for it" in response to Hezbollah's proposal that the Jews should all be gathered in Israel so they don't have to be hunted down globally.

What's his position on that?

Ed said...

Amr,
You ask interesting questions of David. While we wait for David's answers, I have a couple of questions for you:

1. In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical of hadith collections, Muhammad said, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."

Many other canonical hadiths also show Muhammad in support of death to apostates from Islam. Do you believe killing apostates from Islam is correct, is sanctioned by God?

2. Here, from Sunan Abu-Dawud, a hadith collection considered canonical by mainstream Muslim scholars, is a hadith that shows Muhammad supporting the killing of a woman by her husband, because she used to speak to her husband insultingly about Muhammad:

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38, Number 4348:

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

A blind man had a slave-mother [a slave who bore children for him] who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He [the blindman] forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he [the blindman] took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.


Amr, do you think those who insult Muhammad should be killed and that the killers should not be punished for it? Do you think God sanctions non-punishment for those who kill people who insult Muhammad?

Ed said...

Amr,
I think if you go to the left wing site iraqbodycount.com, and look closely at their statistics, you'll find that over 99% of civilian deaths in the Iraq war have been caused by Islamic jihadists of one sort or another. And that's from a website that is doing what it can to make the U.S. war in Iraq look bad.

minoria said...

Hello Amir:
I for my part condemn the killing of 100,000 civilians in the Irak war.At the same time it appears the US tried its best to avoid killing civilians(that makes it different from Hamas).Apparently their deaths were not done on purpose.

Hello Sepher Shalom:
It is scary.In the forum in Spain today:
1. One guy,a non-Muslim called Jorge has written that the Muslim terrorists are heroes.

2.A Muslim woman said the NAZIS and ZIONISTS(Jews)were actually working together to establish the Jewish state.She is SERIOUS,she believes it.I thought at first she was being metaphorical,but no.

Adam said...

Amr,

I am not David. I am someone who has just been listening from a afar with interest, and thus, am not very knowledgable in Islam. However, I am studying to be a Hebraist, and hence, some of the things you have brought up about Biblical law and ethics are right up my ally.

1) Does not "God" in the Bible order the massacre of certain towns, including the donkeys?

Yes, but for a particular reason. The cherem was for horrid acts of idolatry, namely, things like child sacrifice [Leviticus 18:21], or beastiality [Leviticus 18:23], things that make us cringe in moral horror even in our desensitized western society. It was the deep depravity of the idolatry that was theirs that led God to order their death. Hence, it was for their *behavior* that they were executed, and not simply because they happened to be of a particular race or religion.


2) Do you, as a peace wanting Christian, condemn the killing of 100,000 Iraqis in Gulf War 2?

Absolutely. I don't believe that Gulf War 2 was a just war.

3) Does the "reality" that Islam promotes killing mean that Islam is false?

If it is simply because of one's race or religion, then yes.

4) Do you condemn the blasphemy of drawing Muhammad as a dog?

Yes, I don't believe that we should air our disagreements by insulting one another. That being said, when we are insulted, that does not give us a right to respond with violence. Hence, I would say both the mockery of the cartoonist as well as the reaction are wrong.


5) Would you condemn it if it was Jesus?

Absolutely, and, indeed, this happens far more than you know. We just need to react to it in a God honoring way, and not cause riots in the streets over it.

God Bless,
Adam

Kirk said...

Hello Amr,

I am definitely not David Wood, nor do I claim his level of intelligence. I did desire to speak into your questions, as a follower of Messiah 'Isa of the Injil.

1) Does not "God" in the Bible order the massacre of certain towns, including the donkeys?

Yes.

2) Do you, as a peace wanting Christian, condemn the killing of 100,000 Iraqis in Gulf War 2?

Killing is terrible, I don't claim to know the exact reasoning or purpose of EVERY death at that time.

The fact that I have friends who liberated Iraqis, Iraqis who are now free to worship their God, how they desire, without persecution from the state speaks deeply about the problems with Iraq and the need for the war.

Not the NEED for 100,000 dead. But everyone makes a choice, to fight for or against, to let terrorism be rooted out, or to resist. The result is death. And don't undermine the choice those who died made either.

3) Does the "reality" that Islam promotes killing mean that Islam is false?

The reality that Islam calls for precise killing of nations and religious sects is indeed disturbing. Though that is not the reason Islam is false.

4) Do you condemn the blasphemy of drawing Muhammad as a dog?

I do not consider Muhammad to be a prophet, therefore it is not blasphemy. For the sake of respect in regards to Muslims, one should respect the Muslim belief. The sacrifice of denying my own will to respect you. Ephesians 4 in the Bible, Injil, speaks of conduct of a believer in Christ, and how one should strive for peace, on individual level, for sure.

What Muslim's should understand, I don't believe it is Christ followers who are pushing to draw Muhammad as a dog.

I will, however, stand up for the right of another person to have his/her opinion.

5) Would you condemn it if it was Jesus?

I would condemn it, yes. BUT, and this is a big BUT, i would not take it upon myself to teach them a lesson, riot, killing the artist, threats:

A. Christ said He was persecuted, and He said those that follow Him will also.

B. I am told to meet people where they are at. If one is mocking Christ, I am not offended, because I too, once mocked Christ when I knew no better. Was I guilty of it? Yes. BUT, Christ came to die for sinners, myself being the greatest of sinners.

C. "Vengeance is mine, says the LORD, I will repay." God will repay. He is patient, and what persons sow will be reaped.

D. Does the creator of the universe (as I believe in Christ's unity with God the Father) does Christ need a defense? He can unmake the world and all of history in the twinkling of an eye. The Bible says He sits on His throne. He does not pace back and forth worried about those that don't want Him. He is secure in who He is and His Absolute Authority over all.

What is unique about this post is the content. This post was about a young woman agreeing that the Jew's should be rounded up in Israel so Hassan would not have to HUNT them throughout the whole earth... This has NOTHING and EVERYTHING to do with differences of CHRIST and MUHAMMAD.

So, my question to you Amr:

1. Where does Jesus Christ, Messiah 'Isa of the Injil, command a certain ethic people to be exterminated?

2. Do YOU condemn HAMAS/HEZBOLLAH? Do you condemn genocide?

3. Do you believe that ALL people have the right to Freedom, Worship, Life, and Liberty? And if your belief's undermine others freedom's, will you look out for their interest, taking a humble approach? A meek approach, knowing they don't believe as you, but "that's ok?"

Forced belief is not belief, but forced adherence to a system. Not true belief.

Odo said...

Yahya Snow,

You should change the name of your blog from 'Facts about Islam' to 'Slander directed at Christian Apologists' - it would fill the bill better.

Actions speak louder than words.

Odo said...

Hello Arm,

I don't want to speak for Dr. Wood, but if you're asking would Christians kill someone for drawing a picture of Jesus as a dog I can assure you they wouldn't.

Your perception of the Holy One, Blessed be He, is troubling.

Do you think God gives us meager humans the right to slaughter each other?

Odo said...

I wanted to clarify my other post. Anytime I say ‘western moral’, I am of course referring to the Judeo-Christian moral.

mkvine said...

Amr, you said that you "condemn illegal killing that is not sanctioned by God." Ok, so would you say that killing Jews is illegal and not sanctioned by God or not?

GreekAsianPanda said...

Hello, Amr.

1) Does not "God" in the Bible order the massacre of certain towns, including the donkeys?

Yes. (I think Adam has explained this sufficiently in his answer.)

2) Do you, as a peace wanting Christian, condemn the killing of 100,000 Iraqis in Gulf War 2?

Yes.

3) Does the "reality" that Islam promotes killing mean that Islam is false?

No.

4) Do you condemn the blasphemy of drawing Muhammad as a dog?

I don't think it is blasphemy since I do not believe Muhammad is a prophet, but I would rather people not make offensive cartoons of Muhammad. However, I find it more outrageous that some Muslims would kill because of the cartoons.

5) Would you condemn it if it was Jesus?

Yes, but I wouldn't kill or harm anyone.

Well, I'm not David, but everyone else was answering. So those are my answers...

Kirk said...

Ed,

I checked the site. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

The statement on the front page as follows...

"Iraq Body Count is an ongoing human security project which maintains and updates the world’s largest public database of violent civilian deaths during and since the 2003 invasion. The count encompasses non-combatants killed by MILITARY or PARAMILITARY action and the breakdown in civil security following the invasion."

When you check the listings, most are roadside bombs, stabbings, suicide bombs, or persons found shot dead.

The Fat Man said...

When i was getting ready for work this morning, I heard something about a Muslim group holding a rally in Time Square to denounce Islamic Terrorism, and saying that if you are a Muslim American your are to be loyal to the US. Anyone hear about this or know if it happened and how many Muslims showed up?

Yahya Snow said...

SepherShalom
Hi, I hope you are blessed further today

I don't agree with Hamas or Hezbullah

I don't throw my hat in with any government on this planet either...including the British government

Davd Cameron...oh noooo:(

In any case...I'd rather not talk politics

I just answered out of a courtesy towards you

Thanks

Be well
God bless

The Fat Man said...

 Amr said...
Hi
I'm a Muslim, and I do, for your information, condemn illegal killing that is not sanctioned by God.

Oh buddy did you step in this one.
Could you please tell us what Killing is sanctioned by your GOD. Like Apostates maybe, or those that create mischief in the land etc...

I see a lot of Christians answered your question and with out even reading there responses I will respond with my own.

Your first question.

1) Does not "God" in the Bible order the massacre of certain towns, including the donkeys?

Answer: I can think of one verse in Deut that says "In the towns I am giving you as a inheritance leave not a single thing that breaths alive..." So yes that would includes JACKASSES as well as the tribes he names by name.

Second Question

2) Do you, as a peace wanting Christian, condemn the killing of 100,000 Iraqis in Gulf War 2?

Answer: As a Christian I condemn a evil sinful fallen world that produces petty dictators and tyrants who kill their own people to keep themselves in power. Tell me Amr how many innocent Iraqi's died this week in Iraq, and how many of them were killed by the evil Americans. At last count it was 85 died in one day alone via Suicide bombings and random shootings. Not one of them died by American hands. Do you condemn that sir?

3) Does the "reality" that Islam promotes killing mean that Islam is false?

Answer: Islam is false because of 40 words in Arabic. That deny the Crucification and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. The only way for the Salvation of mankind

4) Do you condemn the blasphemy of drawing Muhammad as a dog?

Answer: Thank you for admitting that you worship Mohamed. Blasphemy is only against God so you saying that Drawing Mohamed as a dog is Blasphemy equates Mohamed to GOD. Oh btw you didnt include PHUH or SAW after mentioning Mohameds name. Oh allah not please with you.

5) Would you condemn it if it was Jesus?

Answer i would certainly condemn it if it was Jesus. As I have condemned the drawing of Mohamed. But I would not threaten the artist or deprive him of his right to draw the picture. On the contrary I would defend to the death his right to draw such a picture.

GreekAsianPanda said...

This is off-topic, but I have to ask: Who's the new guy under "Contributors" in the sidebar of this blog? I've never seen Terry Kelhawk here on Answering Muslims.

David Wood said...

Who says Terry is a "guy"?

Sepher Shalom said...

Is it the same Terry Kelhawk that authored the book The Topkapi Secret and authored this article at the Huffington Post? (by the way, there are some interesting comments left in response to the article)

Nakdimon said...

Amr: "4) Do you condemn the blasphemy of drawing Muhammad as a dog?"

Amr, the last time I checked, mocking a human being, be he a prophet or not, is not blasphemy! Blasphemy is talking bad about a deity. Will you guys make up your minds for once? Talking about Muhammad wouldn't constitute blasphemy. Is Muhammad only human or not?

And if you are not to distinguish between prophets, would you say that speaking bad about Isaiah is blasphemy too? Would you have to kill someone for talking bad about Prophet David? If not, why not? Why only if one talks desparagingly about Muhammad?

Nakdimon

SAM said...

amr

U GOT OWNED.

SAM said...

PAKISTANI TALIBAN SAID AMERICA WILL BURN


y muslims y? i want to know y these muslims want to fight and cause war and mayham? does it have to do witht he quran? i want amr or anyone to answer my question.

amr said... Does the "reality" that Islam promotes killing mean that Islam is false?

i said...

amr your right in a way. islam is true when it comes to killing and other sick things because many muslims still follow what it says but IT IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD. its the greatest deceiving book ever know to man. i want to know what u think of mohammads sick behaviour.

oh how blind is there faith oh God. plz forgive them for they dont know what they r doing. Amr brother u have a lot of studying to do.

Adam said...

Hi Adam,

I am Adam from Bombay India.

Adam said...

http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/report_new-fatwa-for-muslims-don-t-work-in-banks-avoid-liquor-firms_1382877



New fatwa for Muslims: Don't work in banks, avoid liquor firms

Interestingly, Uttar Pradesh, where the seminary is located (in Saharanpur), has a Muslim excise minister (Naseemuddin Siddiqui).


http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/report_new-fatwa-for-muslims-don-t-work-in-banks-avoid-liquor-firms_1382877

LouisJ-B said...

Sorry for going off on a tangent but can somebody confirm that Sam Shamoun was on "Jesus or m'who?'hammad" in 2010.Because i recall episodes where David & Sam both had Mac's.

ps, please don't leave me hanging,i'm to young to go crazy...;-)

David Wood said...

Louis,

Yes, Sam has been on Jesus or Muhammad in 2010. If you saw an episode where he had at Mac, that was definitely this year, since he got his Mac from donations on this site.

The Fat Man said...

David Wood

I heard the other day that there was going to be a Muslim protest in time square condemming the bombing attempt. The leader of the group actually said that if you are a Muslim american your loyalty is to America"

Have you heard anything about this, how many showed up etc...?

David Wood said...

Haven't heard anything about it. But I'm sure that if a dozen Muslims had shown up to condemn terrorism, it would have been plastered across every news channel.

Verumi said...

Sepher, thank you for your comments in Terry's article.

Odo said...

Here is more from David Horowitz and what happened at UCSD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRe1CU3NnW4

Ed said...

Kirk,
yes, you confirm what I said about iraqbodycount.com. The site, though it's a leftish site that aims to discredit the U.S. invasion of Iraq, has statistics that show that almost all the civilian casualties in Iraq were done by jihadist insurgent forces. Over 99% of civilian casualties were were done by jihadists who not only did not try to avoid civilian deaths, but actively tried to blow up and shoot civilians. Sunni and Shia killing themselves and each other.

Chaud said...

Commenting on the video

What a load of crap ! both sides , the idiot speaker and the girl.

This is exactly what happens when racists try to corner each other in hate boxing match , this definitely needs a "Yes and No" answer with clarification , to answer this question you really

First of all let me make my position clear , I do support the initial motives that lead Hamasa and Hezbolla ; mainly that they just want to defend their countries and themselves from foreign occupation and Zionist terrorism , however the methods they employ in some cases are definitely actions I condemn , therefore I would be a hypocrite to say that I support them completely and I do not support them completely at the same time.

For example : I do support Hezbolla in their attempts and efforts to defend Lebanon and reclaim their lands , however (assuming Shk.Nasser Allah actually said that phrase , I do not have the sources to confirm) I do not support such actions like advocating genocide.

Another thing that was not taken into consideration , the POLITICAL nature of this that got somehow mixed up with religion , many Arabs are mistaken when they think Judaism is he enemy when in reality it's Zionists , that's why I make sure to differentiate between the 2 , like wise I met Israelis who call for the death of all Arabs based on their alleged scripture (I'd love to see David post one of those here if he has the guts) but since I personally many non Zionist peaceful Jews , I do not have any reasons to call for the death of all Jews , especially since Islam forbids such actions.

Now notice the double standard hypocrisy on BOTH SIDES , THE GIRL AND THE GUY , any sincere , honest person can not stand on one side , this is what I mean , I personally believe in defending your land , but I do not stand for terrorism.

If someone wants me to condemn Hamas or Hezbolla COMPLETELY , then I would require for the person in front of me to declare the head of the satanic state of Israel (yes I am anti-Zionist , I do not support Israel) , the IDF and all Zionist Jews as a terrorists as well , if you wish to condemn the other side , begin with condemning what you have first , I do not deny that there has been correct and wrong actions done by both the Palestinians and Israelis , taking one extreme side over the other is insane , not logical and definitely not peaceful.

i hope you guys understand my point , basically both of them (speakers) are hypocrites , their prepositions does not give them a clear light to see what to say and what is best for the future , as much as i would like the satanic state of Israel become what it actually it , Palestine , it would be insane(from my point of view) to support this for now , after all this time Jews wont leave the land and Palestinians won't leave the land either , in a way or another both of them have to find a way to exist together ,for now I support the 2 state settlement since it could be a good start , but as long as Zionism exists it won't happen.

Sincerely ,
Chaud

Chaud said...

@ALL

Hello all , what's goin' on ? I hope you doing well.

Yesterday I was at the Jarra Market in Amman-Jordan , it's a huge market for traditional stuff , I found a booth selling anything related to Middle eastern Christian heritage , I really enjoyed what they were selling plus the people were really nice , I bought a new Arabic bible translation only to discover it's the most deceptive translation of all time , it was actually translated in a way to help missionaries "reach" Muslims , I just picked it up again and read Matthew 5 , and for some reason I felt like coming back here for a 2nd round of fun.

Before I start I'd like to give a small recommendation if you guys don't mind , when Muslims come here to ask questions and have a conversation with someone in specific , it doesn't help when he/she finds tons of people answering and directing questions , lots of people won't come back and comment if consequences of leaving a single comment are dozens and dozens of endless debates and off topic conversations.

Chaud said...

@Adam

Fine , you love Jews , i love peaceful non-Zionist Jews.

Now are you willing to condemn Jewish Terrorism ? or will you defend it ? will you defend those who advocate death to all Palestinians and death to all Arabs only to become a hypocrite like the speakers are ? or will you man up and take up a stand ?

Chaud said...

@Minora

It is hard to defend the satanic state of Israel (note : just because I call the secular state itself satanic does not mean I am called Judaism Satanic) , because we do not find any objective reasons for it's "legit existence" , and one of the main reasons why I reject Christianity is the fact that it teaches that Jews are some kind of Chosen people , and that land was given to them by God , I dont know who that God is nor do I want to worship such a racist deity .

At least the Quran tells us that the Jews were ordered to dwell peacefully in the land that was promised for them to live in , but no where do we find them killing those who lived in it by the commands of God just because this same "God" gave other people's land to his "chosen people" , and you want to tell me this same "god" sent his son to die for my sins ???

I do not support the religious claims or the historical claims made by the Jews that God gave them this land , therefore it's theirs.

Another point , Zionist Jews usually bring up the alleged holocaust (NOTE : BY NO MEANS I DENY THE HISTORICAL EVIDENCE FOR THE HOLOCAUST EVENT , HOWEVER I DISPUTE THE ACTUALLY NUMBER (6 MILLION????) AND THE MOTIVES BEHIND IT) , let me ask this , so a number of Jews suffer in Europe , what does that have to do with land in Palestine or it's people ??? unless you actually believe this land was given by "god" to the Jews , there is moral or historical argument you can stand on , and because of that some absurd of arguments like "Palestine never existed" were invented , or "This was under the British mandate , and it was given to us" ( as if this justifies anything) .

So from my point view , as a person who rejects the bible , I see no good reason for the existence of what is now called the state of Israel.

Dont get me wrong , in my last post I made my position clear , I believe that saying the Muslims are 100% innocent or that the Jews are 100% innocent is double standard hypocrisy and insane , as much as I would like to favor the extreme Palestinian side , as a person who wants peace in the area I have to be reasonable , I can not take any extreme side and something in the middle must be done , however seeking speakers from 2 extreme sides that bash against each other is not a step forward towards any kind of peace .

Sincerely ,
Chaud

PS : I like your comments , i do not mind them at all , if you wish to have a conversation on the existence of the state of Israel , you are more than welcome to contact me.

Chaud said...

@Kirk

Fine then , she holds an extreme view which is rejected by me , now I hope you have the rational to reject the actions taken by....hmmm...lets say the Hagana who waited until there was a main event where people from different Palestinian cities gather to kill , rape , murder , open up the bellies of pregnant women (old testament anyone ???)...among other forms of extreme Jewish terrorism , will you reject this ??

Chaud said...

@Odo

Western Morals ?? HA ! sorry but I see them as the most degenerate morals ever.

Since we all like history , lets examine that , back when Muslims were actually practicing Islam (Islamic empire) , we had different critics , religious and political , 'till this day know they were not killed , had the full freedom to express their views as long as it does not instigate violence (that is why I think both the girl and speaker are stupid) , and the Christians today still have their writings ! heck I can go to the central library and get them.

comments like what the girl and the speaker were extreme(non objective) & violence instigating comments , I do not believe this is correct.

Such comments should be made in their proper context in their proper place , if I lived in the west I would criticize some of is called today "western morals" , however Islam teaches that if one was in a convenient with others (including non believers) then he must honor them and convenient .

Sorry man , but your questions are really funny !!! I like them in a comical way.

We never claimed that if Islam ruled the whole world that killing will end , sin and imperfection of man will still exist , yes orthodoxy exists , and CURRENT VIOLENCE IS NOT ISLAMIC ORTHODOXY .

Propagating false teachings of muhammad ? rolling heads , give me a break ! you have your head in extreme anti-islamic propaganda....as if extremists are actually orthodox practicing Muslims , I have books written by Jews that make the crusaders orthodox Christians , however I do not buy what they say because I actually ask Christians and take an objective point of view.

Allah never sanctioned the "rolling of the head" of Muslim apologists who defend and propagate what we believe about the peace in Islam , where do you get this stuff ???? haven't you read any hadith or seerah commentary ?? you will find different views and different ideas , some are extreme some are not , some are right and some are wrong , which one of those heads were rolling ???

Chaud said...

@Bartimaeus

I have never been to a hitler youth week , but I have been to something similar at the german embassy where I live , in no way do they glorify his atrocities , but they teach more about the critical thinking and leadership skills that Hitler had , which is something I really respect , but I do not endorse how extreme he got .

6 MILLION ????? OH REALLY ????

Chaud said...

@Ed

"Horowitz at the end cleverly compelled her to show her true genocidal colors."

Well idiots from both sides , the Jewish and Muslim , have these colors , it's not an accomplishment to discover one , would you like me to show you some Jewish genocidal colors ???? and if I did I hope you condemn them.

Chaud said...

!Sepher Shalom

you said :
I sincerely hope this sick-minded person never has children. The world doesn't need beliefs like this multiplying.

Exactly , we don't need sick-minded JEWS AND MUSLIMS LIKE BOTH OF THE SPEAKERS to multiply these beliefs.

Chaud said...

@Sepher Shalom

Did you ever check out the end of times story in whole according to Islam ? because I really do not think so.

First of all this hadith is a prophecy , and human intervention can never speed up prophecies , and it is by no means a stand point for political views and actions .

If you actually check out what I told you , the battle prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was speaking of is the battle that will happen at the end of times between the Muslims lead by Jesus (pbuh) and the Jews who believed in the Anti-Christ , lead by the Anti-Christ himself.

1- No where in the narrative or any narrative does it suggest that the Muslims will kill all the Jews.

2- Before this prophecy comes to pass , many different LONG prophecies have to take place (Yajooj & Majooj's battles , the day that's like a week , month , year.....the gathering of over 30,000 Jews in Safa (somewhere in Iran) , today there isn't a single Jew there), so Muslims living in this generation do not essentially believe that Jesus is coming back in their lifetimes , in the end Allah knows best.

So I would not say that if Shk.Nasser Allah actually said such a statement , he would not be referring to this hadith.

Chaud said...

@Santiaguista

i agree with you , and this is wrong Muslim clerics should speak about this before it really gets out of hand , I thank you very much for holding this view , but dont forget to condemn Jewish hatred of Muslims as well.

Chaud said...

@Mary Jo

Hi Mary , I enjoy reading your blog from time to time , you had a good debate with Dr.Tabassum .

I just want to comment on some of your answers :

1- WOW ! if only you and everyone here apply this exact same methodology with Islam .

2- No I think he is trying to imply exact what I am doing , we Muslims condemn any unjustified violence coming from our side , and since everyone here is pointing fingers , I just like him would like to see if those who are pointing fingers are sincere enough to take the right stand and condemn what is wrong regardless of which side.

4+5 - I hold your exact same stance when it comes to the drawings , and I was really surprised about whole south park thing , I'm a huge south park fan , I do not "like" what they do , but that does not mean that I do not consider their actions to be blasphemy according to God , in end I allegedly "blaspheme" when I reject Jesus's alleged divinity , however I do not see it as blasphemy , but Christians will see this as a charge of blasphemy when I stand in front of God for judgment .

For your information there were many demonstrations and rejections against many blaspheming images and articles spread by arab atheists , I find it hilarious that Muslims are the ones defending with no Christians with them , the only time they objected against anything was when the "saint mary" movie came out and the Iranian Jesus movie , they do not mind hateful images against Jesus , but they can't tolerate a respectful movie from the Islamic point of view .

I think you understand my point Mary .

Kindest regards ,
Chaud

Chaud said...

@Fernando

Hi , do we really need to dance this dance again man ? here are my answers to your questions.

1) No , I recommend you use the methodology posted by Mary with the Quran to come up with your conclusion.
2) Yes , assuming it happens.
3) Does the real reality that islam promotes killing in accordance to Alah, thate pagan god of you muslims, mean that islam is true?
4) Yes I do condemn such blasphemy , I do not like to see pictures of Jesus anywhere , in cartoons , church (especially churches) or in any context.
5) First prove they actually happened that way and I will be glad to reject and condemn him right here right now.

Chaud said...

@Ed

Put that hadith in context then come back.

My stance on Apostasy , well the Quran makes it clear that one has the choice to believe and reject , however from the historical evidence and from the text of other apostasy related hadiths from the prophet , so leaving Islam by itself is not applicable by death HOWEVER leaving Islam and leaving the Jamaa' (people) , meaning committing treason , that is applicable by death.

Some Muslims in the past saw that leaving islam by itself is treason , I do not see this to be correct.

Just to note , I am still researching this topic, so I might be wrong , however 'till now I do not think so.

Example : Mosab Hussien , I dont mind him leaving Islam , but spying for Israel to allegedly "save" some Palestinians ?? what the hell ??

this article might help you out concerning your last question
http://blog.khalidzaheer.com/posts/31

Again I do not claim to have the best answer on this subject , i'm still studying , so I am saying right now anyone who wants to reply to this may not get an answer

Chaud said...

@minora

you said :
At the same time it appears the US tried its best to avoid killing civilians(that makes it different from Hamas).Apparently their deaths were not done on purpose.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME ??? The US trying hard not to kill citizens ? does that work for Israel too ??? Try telling that the Iraqi refugees who saw what the US was doing.

i do not deny that Hamas did a couple of mistakes , however their attitude was not as viscous as the attitude of Israel , again I am not defending the attitude itself to begin with , I just want you point fingers at all the proper directions , not just one.

Chaud said...

@Adam

thanks for your comment however I disagree you said

Yes, but for a particular reason. The cherem was for horrid acts of idolatry, namely, things like child sacrifice [Leviticus 18:21], or beastiality [Leviticus 18:23], things that make us cringe in moral horror even in our desensitized western society. It was the deep depravity of the idolatry that was theirs that led God to order their death. Hence, it was for their *behavior* that they were executed, and not simply because they happened to be of a particular race or religion.

Lets assume that the reason why God ordered their deaths was because of what you said , the reason why they were like that is because "god" is soooooo racist , he can't send any prophets to them in order to reform them into belief in him , it's his fault , and he has no justification to order their deaths because he never send any prophets or revelation for them in order to stop their blasphemy.

look man , if God actually send prophets to these nations according to Christianity and Judaism , I would hold your stance , but since he didnt send anyone to warn and reform them , then "God" ordered their deaths for something he is personally responsible for.

regarding your other answers , I agree .

I really like your intellect Adam , keep it up.

Chaud

Chaud said...

@Kirk

now let's see here , you said
The reality that Islam calls for precise killing of nations and religious sects is indeed disturbing. Though that is not the reason Islam is false.

Islam ALLOWS Muslims to kill combatants who wage war against them , muslim or non Muslim , the verse in the Quran that speak about certain nations (where is that????) and sects is related to the context of that battle in particular , this is including Sura 9:29 .

i would not take it upon myself to teach them a lesson, riot, killing the artist, threats:

I agree according to Islam.

a small note , I have no idea why you call the bible an Injeel , it's not the injeel we believe , Islam and the evidence makes it clear its a tampered with corrupted text , and injeel means "good news" , I find no Good news in the bible.

now to your questions :

1. Where does Jesus Christ, Messiah 'Isa of the Injil, command a certain ethic people to be exterminated?

I dont believe such revelation was given to any prophet from Adam to Muhammad (peace be upon them)

2. Do YOU condemn HAMAS/HEZBOLLAH? Do you condemn genocide?

I condemn genocide from anywhere and called by anyone , however I already made what my position of Hamas and Hizbolla is , its a YES AND NO , please refer back to my first comment to see what I mean,

3. Do you believe that ALL people have the right to Freedom, Worship, Life, and Liberty? And if your belief's undermine others freedom's, will you look out for their interest, taking a humble approach? A meek approach, knowing they don't believe as you, but "that's ok?"

I think that is what Sura 109 is all about , and please dont bring up what I like to call the abrogation myth (violence abrogates peace)

Chaud said...

@Odo

Oh sorry man , now I saw the Anytime I say ‘western moral’, I am of course referring to the Judeo-Christian moral.

i do believe that the differences between Muslims and Christians are theological not ethical , I do respect the Judeo-Christian ethics , but not the moral in totality .

however this clarification means alot , thanks.

Chaud said...

@Mkvine

you said
so would you say that killing Jews is illegal and not sanctioned by God or not?

Killing anyone with no reason is wrong , that includes Jews.

Chaud said...

@Nak

Amr, the last time I checked, mocking a human being, be he a prophet or not, is not blasphemy! Blasphemy is talking bad about a deity.

That is your definition not ours.

Blasphemy (Kufr) is an action that expels you from the way of Islam , thus making you a disbeliever unless you repent.

According to Islam mocking God , his prophets , his revelations...etc are actions that make you a disbeliever , therefore actions of blasphemy , so according to Islam it is not restricted to only mocking god .

For example , lets say I am christian , and I mock and defecate all over the bible , I didn't make fun of God directly but I did make fun and disrespect his revelation , is this action according to you an act of blasphemy or not ?

Will you guys make up your minds for once? Talking about Muhammad wouldn't constitute blasphemy. Is Muhammad only human or not?

By mocking prophet Muhammad , you are rejecting his prophet hood thus indirectly rejecting God and his religion expelling you from Islam , which means this is blasphemy.

And if you are not to distinguish between prophets, would you say that speaking bad about Isaiah is blasphemy too? Would you have to kill someone for talking bad about Prophet David? If not, why not? Why only if one talks desparagingly about Muhammad?

Last time I remember there was a hadith were either Omar or Abu Bakr said "if any Muslim says about David (pbuh) what the Jews said him , I will punish him"

i think you get the idea.

Chaud

Chaud said...

@ALL

Hi , I enjoyed writing these comments , I hope you guys are sincere enough to take the correct stance , if you wish to point fingers , then point them towards ALL THAT DESERVE IT , again this whole thing is a political argument (which David tried to make it religious) , it basically 2 extremists speaking to each other .

I will be out until the 25th , 'till then please feel free to respond , I am hoping to have a good conversation like the last one I had .

kindest regards ,

Chaud

Hiwot said...

Chaud,

It is nice to see you here. How do you feel?

I was reading your initial comment advising others not to debate you at once but then I see you indeed want them to debate you. You are commenting to almost any one of them. I actually not accusing you but I don’t just get your point (or your complain).

BTW, I do like comments coming from different people since everyone has his/her point of view. I think that is a good way of learning. It is also good for you as you will be able to look things in their view and be able to respond to them.

Best wishes

Adam said...

Chaud,

Lets assume that the reason why God ordered their deaths was because of what you said , the reason why they were like that is because "god" is soooooo racist , he can't send any prophets to them in order to reform them into belief in him , it's his fault , and he has no justification to order their deaths because he never send any prophets or revelation for them in order to stop their blasphemy.

look man , if God actually send prophets to these nations according to Christianity and Judaism , I would hold your stance , but since he didnt send anyone to warn and reform them , then "God" ordered their deaths for something he is personally responsible for


Why is God under any obligation to send prophets to *anyone*? If anyone rebels against their creator, God has every right to strike them dead the moment they do it. He is just, and has wrath against sin, and thus, is perfectly justified in killing anyone the moment they commit sin.

The only thing necessary for God's judgment is that men know their creator, and that they refuse to honor him as their creator, things which are true of all men [Romans 1:18-32]. It is by the grace of God that any of us receives our next breath, much less the salvation of God.

Also, the assumption being made is, if God sent them prophets, they could repent. Such ignores the fact that ultimately it is God who changes the heart [Ezekiel 36:26]. Even though God sent Isaiah to the Hebrews, he ordered their eyes and ears shut, so that they would not repent [Isaiah 6:9-10]. God is the only one who can grant obedience, and unless he does that, all the prophets in the world won't matter.

God owes us nothing; no prophets, and certainly no salvation. Until you can see yourself in that way, you will not understand why, from our prespective, there is no problem in God not sending prophets to these people, or to anyone.

God Bless,
Adam

PrinceVlad said...

Hey Chaud

I just wanted to answer some of the posts that you have made. Your original posts are in between the and .

You said: Dont get me wrong , in my last post I made my position clear , I believe that saying the Muslims are 100% innocent or that the Jews are 100% innocent is double standard hypocrisy and insane , as much as I would like to favor the extreme Palestinian side , as a person who wants peace in the area I have to be reasonable , I can not take any extreme side and something in the middle must be done , however seeking speakers from 2 extreme sides that bash against each other is not a step forward towards any kind of peace

From what I saw the speaker asked a simple question, do you support the genocidal acts of Hezbola? He never asked her is she supported their attempts to keep the freedom of Palestinians, only if she supports them for their genocidal views.

You said: At least the Quran tells us that the Jews were ordered to dwell peacefully in the land that was promised for them TO LIVE IN , but no where do we find them killing those who lived in it by the commands of God just because this same "God" gave other people's land to his "chosen people" , and you want to tell me this same "god" sent his son to die for my sins ???

They can live there now? Not according to this Hadith: Sahih Muslim Book 19 Hadith 4364
It has been narrated on the authority of Ibn Umar that the Jews of Banu Nadir and Banu Quraizi fought against the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who expelled Banu Nadir, and allowed Quraiza to stay on, and granted favour to them until they too fought against him Then he killed their men, and distributed their women, children and properties among the Muslims, except that some of them had joined the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who granted them security. They embraced Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) turned out all the Jews of Medlina. Banu Qainuqa' (the tribe of 'Abdullah b. Salim) and the Jews of Banu Haritha and every other Jew who was in Medina.
And this one: Sahih Muslim Book 19 Hadith 4366
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
You said: Now are you willing to condemn Jewish Terrorism ? or will you defend it ? will you defend those who advocate death to all Palestinians and death to all Arabs only to become a hypocrite like the speakers are ? or will you man up and take up a stand ?

Was it the Jewish terrorism that caused 911? Do jews go crazy when Moses is portrayed in a cartoon? Do jews cause trouble in the countries that they immigrate to? And how many Jewish terrorist groups do you see in the news calming that they committed an attack, unlike some Muslim terrorist groups? It seems like the Jewish terrorist are at least smart enough to stick in the shadows.

You said: Such comments should be made in their proper context in their proper place , if I lived in the west I would criticize some of is called today "western morals" , however Islam teaches that if one was in a convenient with others (including non believers) then he must honor them and convenient .

PrinceVlad said...

You said: 2- Before this prophecy comes to pass , many different LONG prophecies have to take place (Yajooj & Majooj's battles , the day that's like a week , month , year.....the gathering of over 30,000 Jews in Safa (somewhere in Iran) , today there isn't a single Jew there), so Muslims living in this generation do not essentially believe that Jesus is coming back in their lifetimes , in the end Allah knows best.

Maybe this generation does not believe in this, but this does not mean that the next generation will not have the thought to do this since it is clearly stated in the Koran that this should be done. As long as the words are there, actions and thoughts will follow.

You said: 2- No I think he is trying to imply exact what I am doing , we Muslims condemn any unjustified violence coming from our side , and since everyone here is pointing fingers , I just like him would like to see if those who are pointing fingers are sincere enough to take the right stand and condemn what is wrong regardless of which side.

We do not see any condemnation from the moderate circles of Islam against attacks.
You said: For your information there were many demonstrations and rejections against many blaspheming images and articles spread by arab atheists , I find it hilarious that Muslims are the ones defending with no Christians with them , the only time they objected against anything was when the "saint mary" movie came out and the Iranian Jesus movie , they do not mind hateful images against Jesus , but they can't tolerate a respectful movie from the Islamic point of view .

This still does not diminish the fact that when Muhammad is criticized there are demonstrations of muslims ready to kill. The protest that he mentions were peaceful and no cartoonist was killed.
Respectful movie? That Iranian movie was basically what Islam believed. In the movie Jesus is saved, not crucified. How is that respectful of the Christian idea of jesus dying for their sins? I am sure if a movie of Muhammad’s life (even if it would be based only on the account from the Koran) was made then the whole production studio would be bombed.

You said: Yes, but for a particular reason. The cherem was for horrid acts of idolatry, namely, things like child sacrifice [Leviticus 18:21], or beastiality [Leviticus 18:23], things that make us cringe in moral horror even in our desensitized western society. It was the deep depravity of the idolatry that was theirs that led God to order their death. Hence, it was for their *behavior* that they were executed, and not simply because they happened to be of a particular race or religion.

Lets assume that the reason why God ordered their deaths was because of what you said , the reason why they were like that is because "god" is soooooo racist , he can't send any prophets to them in order to reform them into belief in him , it's his fault , and he has no justification to order their deaths because he never send any prophets or revelation for them in order to stop their blasphemy.

look man , if God actually send prophets to these nations according to Christianity and Judaism , I would hold your stance , but since he didnt send anyone to warn and reform them , then "God" ordered their deaths for something he is personally responsible for.


Interesting point. Were these people under the covenant when these happened? If so then they already broke their promises to be good. So Mohammad was sent as a prophet to “reform the jews and Christians?” then why does it tell its followers to kill every single one of the Jews and Christians? Were these events in the Old Testament? If so then Jesus did come to reform people so that those actions did not happen again.

Chaud said...

@PrinceVald 3

Interesting point. Were these people under the covenant when these happened? If so then they already broke their promises to be good.

I agree with that , and that is what I am saying , God would have been justified to order divine judgment on them if they actually had a covenant with God and they broke it.

However , the OT God is so racist , he refuses to have covenants with non-Jews after Issac , he even lied and kicked Ismael & the 6 sons of Ketura out of the covenant , they did not have a covenant with God , and yet "god" judged them ! Why ??? because he is a terrorist racist , there is no way around this.

So Mohammad was sent as a prophet to “reform the jews and Christians?”

Yup

then why does it tell its followers to kill every single one of the Jews and Christians?

WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT ??? and before you answer using out of context verses from the Quran , read the article I already linked you too before , and look at my answers , because I will bring the exact same thing.

and before you do anything , please see Mary Jo Sharp's comment in response to Amr , look at her answer of question 1 , you see that methodology she uses with the OT ? use it with the Quran , and then give me an answer.

Were these events in the Old Testament?

Hell yeah they were ! kill everyone , man , woman , child , even donkey's !! rape of all virgins....spare no one , you know when I read the book of Joshu , I can swear that I felt that a volcano of blood was going to explode from this book .

If so then Jesus did come to reform people so that those actions did not happen again.

I agree that Jesus preached against such actions and taught refine humane behavior , but Jesus is allegedly God , and the terrorism in the Old testament happened because of his command , so Jesus is responsible for it , and now he comes to preach against himself ?? to make sure that the terrorism he ordered never happens again ?? do you see the contradiction ?

You know what , I just noticed something , The God of OT really deserves to hung up on a cross , because he deserves it.

David Wood said...

Wow! Chaud just declared that Allah should be hanged on a cross! He said: "The God of OT really deserves to hung up on a cross, because he deserves it."

And yet Muhammad affirmed that the Torah was revealed by Allah:

Sunan Abu Dawud 4434--"Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar: A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah to Quff. So he visited them in their school. They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah who sat on it and said: Bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee."

Notice that Muhammad affirmed the Torah that was possessed by the Jews, not some lost version of the Torah.

So Muhammad claims that the Torah was revealed by Allah. And Chaud claims that the God who revealed the Torah deserves to be hanged on a cross. Thus, Chaud has claimed that Allah deserves to be hanged on a cross.

But why, then, does Chaud reject the incarnation and crucifixion?

Chaud said...

@DAVID WOOD

THIS IS AN OPEN INVITATION FOR THE DAVID WOOD TO PROVE HE NOT A DOUBLE STANDARD HYPOCRITE (Like most people think he is).

DAVID WOOD , IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE YOU CONDEMN THIS GIRL AND YOU WANT TO LINK TO ISLAM SOMEHOW , THAT'S COOL WITH ME , I'VE DEALT WITH IDIOTS BEFORE BUT I WOULD NEVER EXPECT THIS FROM A COLLEGE PROFESSOR.

NOW IT IS OBVIOUS THAT YOU CONDEMN THE GIRL AND ISLAMIC TERRORISM , SINCE YOU ARE CALLED BY THE BIBLE TO BE A MAN OF TRUTH , AND SINCE I JUST SAW YOU ON THE "MUHAMMAD OR JESUS SHOW" SAYING THAT CHRISTIANS ARE PEOPLE OF TRUTH , HERE IS MY QUESTION:


DO YOU SUPPORT ZIONIST JEWS WHO CALL FOR THE GENOCIDE OF ALL PALESTINIANS ?


IF YOU ARE HONEST AS YOU SAY , THEN LET ME SEE YOUR CONDEMNATION.

CHAUD.

David Wood said...

Of course I condemn Zionists who call for the annihilation of all Palestinians. (And feel free to pass that on to any Jew who calls for the annihilation of all Palestinians.)

But this doesn't change the fact that you confidently proclaimed that Allah deserves to be crucified. Shouldn't you be somewhat embarrassed? Are you going to keep trying to change the subject? What else do you think should be done to Allah? And should Muhammad also be crucified for agreeing with Allah? Please answer these questions.

David Wood said...

BTW Chaud, don't bother responding until you're ready to speak like a grown-up. This isn't a site dedicated to seeing how much Muslims can blaspheme. (I'm guessing you're around 13 years old, so try studying for a few years, and then get back to us when you can write without destroying your own position.)

Odo said...

Hello Chaud,

Im sorry but it really seems like the ‘extremist’ Muslims, the Truly ‘Orthodox’ brothers, adhere to the teachings of Muhammad better then Muslims that call for peace. When you look at their actions and words, and then you read the Quran and Sunna, it perfectly matches the teachings and actions of Muhammad (conjured up in an epileptic state?...im not trying to make fun of Muhammad or anything but seriously CAN we look at him from a biographical medical perspective or is this blasphemy too?)

Chaud said: "I have books written by Jews that make the crusaders orthodox Christians, however I do not buy what they say because I actually ask Christians and take an objective point of view”

Well Chaud, im not going to lie, some of those Crusaders were spiritual pious self-proclaimed Christians. But you have to understand, that in the time of the Crusades, there simply was no Bible that the masses of people could read. Whatever they heard and whatever instilled them with all this zeal was spoken from the mouths of other men. Think of unlearned peasant farmers reaching a tipping point of frustration and then unleashing it on others (think Muhammad destroying the pagan relics).

Anti Semitism is rampant Chaud, today as it has been in the time of the black death when Jews were supposedly ‘poisoning the wells’, and im sorry to say it’s evident in your words.


What is completely wrong with this analogy is that when “Christians kill” we can turn to Jesus’ teaching and find absolutely everything against those actions and nothing FOR them; we turn to Muhammad’s teaching and we find absolutely everything FOR those actions and nothing against them.

I actually ask Muslims also, and I hear stuff similar to what this girl said over and over.

Odo said...

Chaud said: which one of those heads were rolling ???

Here is one example out of what literally seems like hundreds!

Ibn Ishaq 764, p. 515

When Muhammad asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al Zubayr b. al Awwam, ‘Torture him until you extract what he has,’ so he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud.

Odo said...

Chaud,

You said Since we all like history, let’s examine that, back when Muslims were actually practicing Islam (Islamic empire), we had different critics, religious and political, 'till this day know they were not killed, had the full freedom to express their views as long as it does not instigate violence.

We also know that many were, oppressed, humiliated, murdered, exploited, expelled, or completely annihilated (and for history's sake let's be honest and say many more)

You said: Christians today still have their writings! heck I can go to the central library and get them

Praise the Lord! And be thankful to Christendom for helping preserve all those manuscripts from people who tried to erase or change them, Muhammad among others. Did Uthman, before his slaughter by fellow Muslims, not burn some...Qurans?

But I guess Islamist's aren't Muslims according to you?

From among the people of the Book –Fight them until they submit to you, Sura 9

I think it would help if you read the previous posts on this blog, some orthodox passages are presented, let me show you:

Surah 9.111 – ”They fight in Gods way, they slay and they are slain, this is a promise!”

Surah 9.123 – ”O’ ye who believe! Fight ye those of the infidels near to you and let them find in you firmness”

Sura 47.35 - ”So be not fainthearted and call (the infidels) to peace, while ye have the upper hand”

Odo said...

Maybe some of these orthodox Islamic teachings can clarify why you think Israel is satan:

Malik’s Muwatta Book 49, Number 49.10.26:

Yahya related to me from Malik that Abdullah ibn Abi Bakr said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'May Allah curse the jews! They were forbidden to eat fat, so they sold it and ate its price.' "

Malik’s Muwatta Book 51, Number 51.4.12:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Summayy, the mawla of Abu Bakr from al-Qa'qa ibn Hakim that Kab al-Ahbar said, "Had it not been for some words which I said, the jews would have made me into a donkey."

Malik’s Muwatta Book 45, Number 45.5.17:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Ismail ibn Abi Hakim that he heard Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz say, "One of the last things that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said was, 'May Allah fight the jews and the christians. They took the graves of their Prophets as places of prostration . Two deens shall not co-exist in the land of the Arabs.'

Sahih Muslim Book 37 Hadith 6666

Abu Burda reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire. 'Umar b. Abd al-'Aziz took an oath: By One besides Whom there is no god but He, thrice that his father had narrated that to him from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him).

Sahih Bukhari Book 9 Volume 85 Hadith 77

...O Assembly of Jews! Embrace Islam and you will be safe!" The Jews replied, "O Aba-l-Qasim! You have conveyed Allah's message to us." The Prophet said, "That is what I want (from you)." He repeated his first statement for the second time, and they said, "You have conveyed Allah's message, O Aba-l-Qasim." Then he said it for the third time and added, "You should Know that the EARTH belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to EXILE you from this land, so whoever among you owns some property, can sell it, otherwise you should know that the EARTH belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

Sahih Bukhari Book 4 Volume 53 Hadith 394

Narrated Abu Huraira:

...On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They [the jews] said, “We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it.'' Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Ab Li-AI-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you."


Sahih Muslim Book 40 Hadith 6861

This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Abu Ayyub through some other chains of transmitters (and the words are):" Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) went out after the sun had set and he heard some sound and said: It is the Jews who are being tormented in their graves.

Are you saying real Muslims DON’T follow the Quran and Hadith?

Would you condemn any of the above passages I cited as hate inciting ‘stupid’ verses?

Do you not understand that this so called Allah is singling out a specific culture of people as evil and cursed; to be annihilated and damned for all eternity? And he is putting the position of Judge and Jury over their lives into Muslim hands? Muhammad froze this sickness in place.

Odo said...

Chaud said: Propagating false teachings of muhammad ? rolling heads , give me a break ! you have your head in extreme anti-islamic propaganda

How about just burning bodies?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame of fire to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer, along with their houses."

Chaud said,“haven't you read any hadith or seerah commentary”

Oh dont worry my friend, as for surah al Baraat and Muhammad I have read all the Hadith and commentary I could find.

Thanks for making my saturday night Chaud ;)

Fernando said...

Hi Chaud...

so: now you're teh lacckay of Amr... I knew you lacked integrety to be a responsable individual...

let's see...

1) mary's methodology is not the ortodox islamic methodology... so: no matter I would love to see her's logic being applyied by muslims, it wont be such...

2) do habe any doubt it does happen? in wich world are you living? butt I'm glad you condemn watte your religious beliefs orders true muslims to do...

3) thaks for your sterophonic answer...

4) I asked: «Do you condemn the blasphemy of depicting Jesus, our common God, as a simple prophet in the qur'an and in islam?»; you answered: «Yes I do condemn such blasphemy»... so: you do condemn the fact thate Jesus is downgraded from our true God to a simple prophet... glad... I'm glad you condemn watte your religious beliefs orders true muslims to do...

you also saide: «i»I do not like to see pictures of Jesus anywhere , in cartoons , church (especially churches) or in any context»... why do you consider the representation off Jesus? can you presente a single teological reason? thanks...

5) So: do you habe any doubt thate:
5.1) muhammad had sex withe a baby?
5.2) muhammad killed and orderd the killing odd people arounde him?
5.3) he dispised his women?
5.4) and so on? (had homosexual tendecies; had suicidel tendecies; was tempted and beaten into temptation by the devil;...)

lets see how honest you are...

Kirk said...

What up Chaud:

A few comments, response. To better understand each other.

"Fine then , she holds an extreme view which is rejected by me , now I hope you have the rational to reject the actions taken by....hmmm...lets say the Hagana."

I do reject acts of malicious hate, whether Jew or not.

Regards to Bible claims:

"However , the OT God is so racist, he refuses to have covenants with non-Jews after Issac, he even lied and kicked Ismael & the 6 sons of Ketura out of the covenant, they did not have a covenant with God, and yet "god" judged them! Why ??? because he is a terrorist racist, there is no way around this."

This is the covenant that God had with Ismael, besides the fact that God can choose who He desires to have a covenant with or not. Being the Creator of all worlds, I'm pretty sure He is entitled to have these kind of choices, whether you and I agree or not.

Genesis 21:12-21

12. But God said to Abraham, “Do not let it be displeasing in your sight because of the lad or because of your bondwoman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice; for in Isaac your seed shall be called.
13. Yet I will also make a nation of the son of the bondwoman, because he is your seed.”
14. So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water; and putting it on her shoulder, he gave it and the boy to Hagar, and sent her away. Then she departed and wandered in the Wilderness of Beersheba.
15. And the water in the skin was used up, and she placed the boy under one of the shrubs. 16 Then she went and sat down across from him at a distance of about a bowshot; for she said to herself, “Let me not see the death of the boy.” So she sat opposite him, and lifted her voice and wept.
17. And God heard the voice of the lad. Then the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, “What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is.
18. Arise, lift up the lad and hold him with your hand, for I will make him a great nation.”

God made a promise to Ismael, and did in fact prosper him and his offspring, would you agree?

Regards to Joshua taking of Jericho. I assume this is your reference, from "kill everyone, man, woman, child, even donkey's!! rape of all virgins....spare no one, you know when I read the book of Joshu, I can swear that I felt that a volcano of blood was going to explode from this book."

Read Chapter 5, 6. First, rape all virgins? I would like a reference to God's command to rape, anywhere in the Bible. That is not in sync with His Character.

Volcano of blood. Apparently you have not read it's entirety or understood it's context.

Furthermore, it deals with the span of human history, including all of mankind's evil glory. There has always been war, bickering, selfishness, murder, covetousness, etc... to say that the Bible, being much history of humanity, would not record the wars in it's pages is absolutely ridiculous. Read any history book, good sir.

Because the Bible is history, it records that the Jews are unfaithful as well. It does not claim that everything according to historic Israelites should be done by all Jews and Christians, it is history.

I find it very inconsistent when you claim that God of the Bible is causing a blood bath when Muhammad himself taught that those who don't submit should be killed, to make war with unbelievers. And what of Messiah Isa coming back to wage war with the unbelievers, if I am correct, according to Islamic eschatology?

You may argue that here is good reason for Muhammad's waring, Messiah Isa's purpose in coming back, but you cannot, if you subscribe to Muhammad's actions, claim that the God of the Bible is evil for such things. This thinking is inconsistent.

Take care.

Sepher Shalom said...

Hello Chaud. I want to start by saying it's good to know that your health is well enough to allow you to make blog comments. The last time we spoke you had informed us that you had cancer and were beginning chemo-therapy. It's also good to know that your health has been good enough to allow you to be reading arguments and making several posts on your own blog each month. I know that at least 2 of us have been praying for you, and while I don't care much for what you have posted I am glad you are well enough to do it.

Chaud said: "1- No where in the narrative or any narrative does it suggest that the Muslims will kill all the Jews."

Yes, it clearly does. The Hadith says that the Jews are going to be hiding behind trees and rocks and the trees and rocks will call out where we all are so the Muslims can come and kill us.

Chaud said: "So I would not say that if Shk.Nasser Allah actually said such a statement , he would not be referring to this hadith."

I've seen video of the man quoting that exact Hadith! I will try to find where I saw it, but the odds of me tracking down the exact video clip are slim. I think it's interesting that you identify Nasrullah, the leader of Hizbullah, as a Sheikh, thereby giving him legitimate authority to make religious rulings. Isn't it funny that you never have to look very far with every Islamic terrorist organization in order to find a Sheikh? Each terrorist group has their own little "religious Mafia Don" handing out fatwas for the soldiers.

rk said...

how in the world can anybody answer yes to this question withuot any emotion whatsoever???????