Tuesday, July 14, 2009

Iltifat in the Qur'an and Grammatical Considerations

Nabeel and I watched several presentations at ISNA. This was one of the most interesting.


Radical Moderate said...

What a bunch of nonsnse.

I once walked me dog, to the park. We let me dog off the leash to playing with the ball. Throwing I did the ball so we dog could catch playing I did with the ball.

Me dog loved playing with we ball so much that I will go back to the park.

faktb said...

What rubbish! That was a waste of time.

I can't believe that guy made a presentation out of that.

What does he say about the parts of the Quran that are grammatically correct? That they are inferior?

Rubbish rubbish rubbish

Bfoali said...

does anyone know of any good computer protection programs? I am so sick of having to buy norton 360.
Any links to free anti virus programs or computer clean ups would be greatly appreiciated.


Charlie said...

Everything Islam comes through one man, Mohammed. Mohammed is, in eyes of Islam the perfect man. To keep the man Mohammed perfect in the eyes of the ummah the apologists for Islam have to jump through many hoops.
Now these guys know how allah felt, always trying to get Mohammed out of the jams he would get in.
Sorry for being so cynical but this video borders on the ludicrous.

Unknown said...

What about the foreign words in quran .

Muslim says: well these word are arabized (like being christanized)

Do u think we can use some arabic words, like those we started to know from you guys, and say they r considered english bu use ?!!
e,g tafseer, sunan, hadith, quran, salam ...etc

all these words have been used for a good while by Non arabic so, does the rule of christanised on these word ?!! why not ?!

Fernando said...

Onne off the major problems I see withe islam is preciselie this one: everithing is standarticizied according to whate the qur'an and Muhammad saide or did. Everything in human achievement is compared withe thate book and thate person. Muslim cosmovision was developped in order only to defend thate paradigm thate, to its followers, is the climax off everything (for example: science, literature, rationality, etc.) and in whate they can't be presented as a canon (for example: music, painting, drawing, etc.) they habe been almostt forbiden.

It woulde bee almost like some 2 years olde baby was saide to bee the last prophet and his drawings were to bee presented as the apex off human painting and, being so, major workes from Da Vinci to Caravaggio woulde be neglected and disregarded and workes upon workes off pseudo-scholarly studies became to bee presented in order to defend the undifensable. More dangerous woulde bee to see people believing in so: "ohhh... yes... I see: thate yellow almoste perfect circle... humm, triangle... has a depth thate creates a perfect antithesis with the shallow aspect off the blue moon... Ohh: it's a car... sorrie: this is very, very difficult to grasp to a simple person like mee"... Butt thates where so manie people are going: to the destruction off it's humanity...

minoria said...

A presentation rather hard to understand.Each language has its ways.Haven't you noticed Muslim apologists,when they argue linguistically that the Paracletos is a man,ignore the rules and logic of Greek and Aramaic?

They can apply special rules for Arabic but they can't do that to Greek and Aramaic.But they have to to make the Paracletos a man.

Pneuma(Greek for spirit,wind)only means that,UNLESS the context says otherwise.In 1 John 4:1 spirit mean a human because we have the words "false prophets".So we know spirit is used as a metaphor.

But you don't have that in John.Richard Carrier says Paul preached a spiritual resurrection.So does Dan Barker,atheist,ex-Christian.He said so in his debate with Michael Licona.

His argument:1 Cor 15:3-4 says:"Christ died for our sins...he was buried and was "egeiro" on the 3rd day."

Egeiro is translated as "raised"/"resurrected".It really means "wake up".But the fact goes against a spiritual resurrection.

Why?"To fall asleep"is a Jewish expression meaning "to die".Stephen is killed in Acts 7:60 and "he fell asleep"(died).

1 Cor 15:6 says:"he appeared to more than 500 brothers at the same time,most of who are alive,but some "have fallen asleep"(died).

Rom 8:11 says God will "give life to your mortal bodies":"the spirit of he who raised Jesus from the dead...he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies."

1 Cor 15 says Jesus died(the exact word used is died,"fell asleep"is its equivalent),was buried and "woke up" on the 3rd day. Rom 8:11 says the waking up was "giving life to the mortal body".

You have a dead body("asleep")and it "wakes up",its eyes open.The legs and arms move like when you wake up in the morning.Paul obviously meant a physical resurrection.It goes against the idea of Carrier,Barker and Ehteshaam.

nma said...


Microsoft onecare is a good program but it will cost you $50 a year for 3 computers.

minoria said...


Here I just add more to show that the Muslim idea of Mohammed in John doesn't apply:


John 14:16-17:"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you ANOTHER PARACLETE to be with you forever,the Spirit of truth."

The argument is that the specific Greek word translated as "another" means "another who is same in nature".True.So since Jesus was a man and a Paraclete,then the "other Paraclete" would be a man.


Like in 1 John 4:1:"Dear friends, do not believe every SPIRIT, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many FALSE PROPHETS(er...spirits) have gone out into the world."

Spirit of truth can't be a metaphor for man here like in 1 John 4:1 because it is in 2 parts:the second half has already identified that the helper is a spirit.Like in:"He will send you another helper,of the same nature as myself(in what sense?In goodness,power,knowledge?),who is a spirit."

If it had said:"He will send another helper,of the same nature,the spirit of truth,a prophet." ,then it would be a human.But the other helper is a spirit.


Another of the same nature(allon,in Greek).The helper,comforter(paracletos,menahemana)is the KEY WORD that tells us what the "same nature" refers to.Jesus and the Spirit are of the "same nature" in that they both help,comfort,that's all.That's why we have 1 John 2:1:

" My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have a paraclete/helper/comforter with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

I hope this helps.