Wednesday, June 24, 2009

VideoBlog #5: The Unedited Footage

The full footage of the interview I had with the gentlemen manning the dawah booth in Dearborn, Michigan. There was another encounter, as you'll see in the near future. For now, here's what we've got to share :-)

43 comments:

The Fat Man said...

Great video, really revealing. I dont think the younger muslim spoke arabic or even understood his relegion. Do you know if he was a revert? I love the comment "read the pamphlet the pamphlet says it right there that islam is against terrosim" lol'

Nabel/David you are right about the security guards however to be fair and honest. It looks like the secruity guards did their job. They difused what was looking to become a very bad situation. The older gentlemen was getting really angry. A crowed was forming and it could of gotten bad really quick. Its tough working secruity. Unless your off duty police officer you get no respect, u have no recongnizable authority, and pluss in most cases you are un armed.

What I'm saying is that all though what they did was wrong. They still did what was right. I know this sounds like a double standard. But lets say they let you go, and the crowd turned ugly. Tempers flair, violence breaks out. you were in a confined space with woman and children present that had nothing to do with Acts 17. People could of gotten hurt. Then what would be said about these security guards.

The Fat Man said...

Just got done watching it again. Noticed the bigger guy behind the little guy. Nabeel he was giving you the "I"M GOING TO KICK YOUR BUTT" look. He definitly was making eyse, of a hostile intent.

Muhammad said...

Nabeel, what are you trying to prove?

Please tell me.

Also, your question can be answered simply, if you just let me know what is your contention.

Thanks

The Fat Man said...

One more observaton on this video.
You can definitly see the muslims were agitated. Gum chewing increased, movement increased. The bigger guy pulls a cell phone out and puts it to his ear. Doesnt look like he is talking on the cell phone. Looks like a reaction to the elevated heart rate, and adrenline. Eyes are wide open facial expression denote threat.

But looking at Nabeel and David. I'm sure both of your heart rates were elevated. Nabeel was definitly excited. But it was a excitement of JOY not of anger. A look of inocent calm. Especialy when David saunters up with a look of "Hey guys whats going on, we got a discussion going on?". Almost oblivioius to the possible danger and threat.

I can just see David and Nabeel in the bowls of the Roman Collesium. Sitting back chatting, the elevator raises them up to the arena floor. David looks up says "Oh hey lions cool here kitty kitty" Nabeel sees the gladiators and walks over to them beeming and says "Hey guys ever hear about jesus" :)

Fernando said...

Dear Nabeel: I'm sure some muslim around here will saie thay are being victimized due to the facte they are being acused off not having the freedom to prevent you, Mary and Davi from filming them and, since, there; saying, from thate, they are living in a countrie that do nott grant them the right to leave freely imposing restriction on the freedom off others... let's waite and see...

Nabeel Qureshi said...

Muhammad:

Watch the first video. I was trying to give the people at the booth an opportunity to answer my objections to their pamphlet.

We can talk more in detail about the actual ayaat soon.

Sincerely,
-Nabeel

Nabeel Qureshi said...

The Fat Man said:

Nabeel/David you are right about the security guards however to be fair and honest. It looks like the secruity guards did their job.

Brother, you'll see in the upcoming videos that the security were not really concerned with diffusing situations, but rather diffusing Christians. You're right, this video could be ambiguous, but there's a lot more to be seen.

I'm thankful for your objectivity and fairness, brother :-) In Christ,
-Nabeel

The Fat Man said...

Nabeel cant wait to see the next video. By the way i'm told you were on the news in Detroit.

I still think the amazing thing about that video, is the peace and tranquility of you and David. You two seem right at home in the lions den :)

Bartimaeus said...

Mohammed

I was there. The same thing happened to a lesser degree and we didn't have a camera to me and another person who was withy me. We asked questions and the Islamist escorted us out of the area So Mohammed I will ask you what I asked them. Can you show me where the Shahadah is in the Quran?

YOU GOT QUESTIONS - ISLAM HAS ANSWERS - And the answer is be assaulted and asked to leave. Not a very sucessful for of Dawa is it Mohammed,

David Wood said...

Fat Man,

I agree with Nabeel. Security was the problem, not the solution. Not long after this video, they were smacking us all over the place. As for the Muslims at the booth, we had no problems with them. They weren't very knowledgeable, but they weren't violent or anything. The only suggestion I would make is that if they're going to invite dialogue, they should bring a scholar or an apologist next time.

The suggestion I would make for the security team is that they shouldn't put Hezbollah in a position of power at the festival. (NOTE: That wasn't an insult. I meant that literally. A champion of Hezbollah was on the security team, walking around harrassing Christians. Indeed, many of the security guards were openly and violently hostile to Christianity. But, as Nabeel said, you'll see that soon!)

Muhammad said...

Nabeel,

I understand that, but what are you trying to prove by posting the videos up?

Why can't we talk about it now? Are you hiding something?

People, is this deception?

"Can you show me where the Shahadah is in the Quran?"

What does it matter? You people keep saying that it is not in the Quran, when it is. Even you should know the countless verses which say that faith is null until one believes in Allah and His Messenger.
Even if all of that was not present in the Quran, it does not matter, because it is in the Sunnah.
What do you take me for, a Qurani heretic like Hamza Abdul-Malik?

The Fat Man said...

David/Nabeel
I'm not so much disagreeing with you. I just like giving people the benifit of a doubt. Working security and crowd control is tough.

Now as far as "A champion of Hezbollah was on the security team" Obvioiulsy that now puts that video in a whole new light.

Christians being phsyicaly assulted again puts the video in a whole new light.

I cant wait to see the next video. Any idea when thats going to be available?

Fernando said...

Muhammad: iff the Shahadah is, indeed, in the qur'an, please: gibe us all a surah and a versicle... thankes...

Nabeel Qureshi said...

Muhammad:

Just to clarify, neither David nor I are posing the question about the shahadah. We'll leave such questions to Hamza. The ahadith are a good enough source for me.

There are many reasons I'm posting these videos, as is obvious. And the reason I'm not posting much of anything else right now is because this is a big enough deal that it's taking most of my attention. Lawyers and the media are involved, apart from a big move in my personal life. No time for much else.

Besides, I have no obligation to discuss that question just yet. Have patience, and we'll discuss it soon enough. Or you can just post your info right now if you want; I'm sure it will generate enough discussion.

God bless you, friend. Sincerely,
-Nabeel

minoria said...

All the same I am sure subconsciously most Muslims have a tendency to look down on us non-Muslim,of whatever persuasion.The reason is they are taught Islam is the most rational of religions,with the best evidence,Mohammed prophesized in the Bible,scientific miracles,100% perfect preservation,inimitable literary greatness,Mohammed was the greatest man who ever lived.The Koran even says they are "the best of peoples".

When you have been taught that all your life you believe it 150%.So they don't understand why the rest of the world doesn't become Muslim.Either it is ignorance of the evidence for Islam or lack of intelligece.

When they find out atheists and others have reasons for,for example,not accepting the Koran as being a literary masterpiece,they find it hard to accept it as valid.

It is hard to give up what is part of your identity.Just ask those who used to believe in Communism,in the Cuban Revolution,that Che Guevara was a real hero,etc.For example,it took Ali Sina,from Iran,of faithfreedom.org,2 whole years to leave Islam when he began to rally doubt it.He fell into a deep depression.It was such a part of his identity.

minoria said...

I think they should show these debates on tv.All the time with Oprah,Dr Phil,Amazing Race.If I were the owner of ABC or NBC I would do it.And the same debate 2X for those who didn't see it the first time.Ratings would go up alot.I know because people get addicted.Like a debate between Micheal Brown(Messianic Jew) and Shmuley Boteach (Orthodox Jew) on "Is the NT anti-Semitic?".The 2 are good friends,real friends,Boteach has so said publicy in debates.Higher ratings mean more money,and in the end that is all they are really interested in.

What happens is people in the TV channels lack imagination.Those reality TV shows are so boring.I hope it happens one day.That's why I almost never watch TV.

Muhammad said...

Fernando said, "Muhammad: iff the Shahadah is, indeed, in the qur'an, please: gibe us all a surah and a versicle... thankes..."

Firstly, I've said this before, learn to write in English please, every time you write it hurts my eyes.
Secondly, if you do not know Ayaat in the Qur'an which say believe in Allah, and His Messenger, then you have a problem, and you should not be speaking about Islam.

Nabeel said, "Just to clarify, neither David nor I are posing the question about the shahadah. We'll leave such questions to Hamza. The ahadith are a good enough source for me."

Thanks for your clarification, but that comment I made was intended towards Bartimaeus, not you.

But what point are you trying to make? Simple question.

"Besides, I have no obligation to discuss that question just yet. Have patience, and we'll discuss it soon enough. Or you can just post your info right now if you want; I'm sure it will generate enough discussion."

No, I am waiting for you, because I do not know what your contention is.
You see how ridicules it sounds?

Are you hiding something? Is this deception? (I only said this to show you how crazy what you said in the video is!)

Just because he does not want to be filmed, means nothing.

May Allah guide you to Islam.
Ameen

Darrin said...

Wait, Michigan? From the video, it appears these guys are native African-American, not immigrated Arabian-Americans. This wasn't NOI, was it? If it was, I seriously have to doubt your sanity, because that was an extremely dangerous thing to do.

nma said...

Fot,
You wrote in your blog:For example, Muslims dont believe that God made all of Mankind bear the guilt of the sin of just two people, that is unjust and Muslims dont believe that God is unable to forgive sin and requires payment, even if that meant paying Himself by becoming a man and committing suicide (or killing another innocent), that a weakness and another injustice.

It’s interesting to watch Muslims applying ‘logic’ to Christianity while unaware of that similar logic can be applied to Islam as well. For example, I can ask questions similar to yours: “Why does all-knowing all-powerful Allah allow sin to happen? It is a weakness and injustice.” Or “Why did Allah took 6 days to create the universe when he could have done it instantaneously?” And so on.

Ali said...

yes we muslims were agitated because its common that cristian missionaries will approch us talking about terrorism, something that really is getting old. muslims dont like repeating themselves, especially with a camera and a missioanry entering an islamic tent and wanting to talk about terrorism.

Ali said...

//Wait, Michigan? From the video, it appears these guys are native African-American, not immigrated Arabian-Americans. This wasn't NOI, was it? If it was, I seriously have to doubt your sanity, because that was an extremely dangerous thing to do.//

No theres muslim speaking African's as well (sudan for example).

hey fat man noticed you put up neda on their. she was a proud muslim who was fighting for islamic rights (sharia). yeah i know its not related to this topic.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Muhammad wrote:

Firstly, I've said this before, learn to write in English please, every time you write it hurts my eyes.

Elijah replies:

Muhammad,

you are mostly welcome to debate my brother Fernando, however if start attacking his personal abilities such as his attempt to write in a second language (which is difficult) I will consider that action is taken against you on this blog.

Ali wrote:

yes we muslims were agitated because its common that cristian missionaries will approch us talking about terrorism, something that really is getting old. muslims dont like repeating themselves,

Elijah replies:

funny, because all muslims bring up against Christianity are the same old questions, to which we have to repeat our answers over and over and over and over and over again.

The Fat Man said...

Ali said

hey fat man noticed you put up neda on their. she was a proud muslim who was fighting for islamic rights (sharia). yeah i know its not related to this topic.

Thats intersting, she was murdered while marching in a oppostion protest against the Iranian government who implements a flavor of Sharia law. She was murdered by government agents who support the this governments impamentation of sharia law.

The oppostion wants more rights for woman, wants more freedom of expression and freedom of the press, they want employment oportunities and they want a government who will join the rest of the world, instead of threating the world. They also do not want their government to waist billions of dollars supporting Hezbulla in Lebanon and Arab occupied Israel.
These are the things they want. Yet for some reason you think she was demenstrating for Sharia law. Even though she was murdered by those who impose a version of sharia law.

What is it with muslims who live in the west and their Islam is always greener on the other side

Bartimaeus said...

Mohammed

I am the one who posed the question about the Shahadah NOT David and Nabeel. David and Nabeel had a differnt question. The booth was there to answer questions about Isam. We asked the question and you saw the results.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

and freedom of religion, only God knows how many converts from islam to Christianity live in Iran, but there are many

IslamSINS said...

Bartimaeus said: YOU GOT QUESTIONS - ISLAM HAS ANSWERS - And the answer is be assaulted and asked to leave. Not a very sucessful for of Dawa is it Mohammed,

Islam didn't stipulate that they had intelligent answers, or that shoving questioners away wasn't their pat answer, Bartimaeus, so they weren't exactly lying. LOL!!


Ali said: ... muslims were agitated because its common that cristian missionaries will approch us talking about terrorism, something that really is getting old.

Unfortunately, Ali, terrorism from Muslims continues on a daily basis, so while it is indeed "getting old" to non-Muslims, Muslims keep reviving the mandate of Muhammad to fulfil all of his hate commands to subject our planet to his lunacy. We have a right to question any group that believes they, alone, should be in charge of world affairs.

I don't want, and will refuse, to subject myself to "allah" who had no idea where he stuck men's gonads (among other terminally ignorant teachings of Muhammad), or a false messenger who served no one but himself. He made "allah" in his image. As he declared at Aqabah, Muhammad is "Lord of the Muslims".

*GAG*

David Wood said...

I do want to reemphasize that the Muslims in the booth weren't the ones who attacked us. I have no objections to the behavior of the Muslims in the booth, except for the fact that they weren't very knowledgeable and therefore shouldn't have been inviting us to dialogue with them.

On a slightly different note, I have noticed that whenever someone starts asking questions of young Muslims, other Muslims (usually older) will do anything to disrupt the conversation. For instance, last Friday, Sam Shamoun, Bartimaeus, and I went into a Sunni mosque and listened to the sermon. When the Muslims finished their prayers, the Imam (who was in his late twenties) came back for a discussion with us. The conversation was very peaceful, and the Imam was intelligent, peaceful, and reasonable. However, as Sam began backing him into a corner, some of the older Muslims came over and started talking in loud voices, not listening to anything we said, in an obvious effort to end the conversation.

This is similar to what happened at the festival. The difference was that, at the festival, it was security that was trying to keep people from discussing Islam. The result was the same, however. The goal is always to end the conversation before young Muslims learn the facts about their religion.

Fernando said...

Muhammad daide: «learn to write in English please, every time you write it hurts my eyes»... iff you habe probllems with your yese, please: do go to an ophthalmologist... Iff mie english is nott good enoughte to you, then, just say so: I'll gibe another language to chosse: italina, spanhis, french, german, dutch or philipino... please: do chosse... thakes... another possibilitie: do ignore mie wordes... perhaps it was my politness thate made yoy become so agressive... so... please: do chose one off those languages... thankes...

then Muhammad saide: «if ou do not know Ayaat in the Qur'an which say believe in Allah, and His Messenger, then you have a problem, and you should not be speaking about Islam»... thankes for these tipp, mie friend Muhammad, I would habe neber tought in a cleaver way to invitte all muslims apologistes (and eben the author off the qur'an) nott to speak aboutt Christianity; butt from now own I'll follow your'e example (or maibee noot since I do nott run from other's ignorance, rather I trie to explain the truthe to them...) since none off the oboves now anything aboutte the true Chriatianity...
Butt then Muhhamad, where in the qur'an in written, in a surah and a versicle thate «There is no god but God, Muhammad is the Messenger of God»?... hummm?

the closeste you habe in a single verse is surah 3:18... butt thates nott the entire declaration of muslime belief since this one requires the acceptance of Muhammad as a prophet... the first part off the text from surah 3,18 I would say ebery thay; the laste one, nott any more...

so; Muhammad, explain to us all where in the qur'an is written, in a surah and a versicle, the Shahadah? Thankes!

Fernando said...

Bartimaeus said to Mohammed: «I am the one who posed the question about the Shahadah NOT David and Nabeel»... I'm sorry iff I interviened; I was juste very curious to know thate as well since I allways was tolde (eben when I was a muslime) thate the Shahadah WAS NOT AS SUCH in the qur'an... I did not want to make a fuzz... sorrie... butt I'm still willing to waite to Mohammad answer, and I woulde bee verie gratefull to him... butt ounce again: sorrie to you brother Bartimaeus iff, with my action, impeded you to have an answer from Mohammad...

Muhammad said...

Fernando, you are hilarious.

You said do I want you to speak in any other language. Well I only speak Arabic and English, but do you speak all those languages as bad as English?

"Butt then Muhhamad, where in the qur'an in written, in a surah and a versicle thate «There is no god but God, Muhammad is the Messenger of God»?... hummm?"

Ugh I will just mention two Ayaat:

1. "Allah, there is no deity worthy of worship except Him" (2:255)
2. "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah" (48:29)

Is that enough for you?

Also, Bartimaeus, I know it was you who was asking about the Shahaadah in the Qur'an, I don't know why Nabeel thought I was speaking to him, when I clearly quoted him.

nma said...

Muhammad said...
1. "Allah, there is no deity worthy of worship except Him" (2:255)
2. "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah" (48:29)


How can you worship a copycat God called Allah? YehWeh is not Allah in the Quran because YehWeh has a son called Jesus. Mohammed maybe a messenger of the non-existant copycat God Allah who is not the same God in the OT or Injeels.

Semper Paratus said...

Muhammad,

If it is acceptable to splice disparate passages together, then not only can you come up with the Shahada in the Qur'an, but you can come up with anything.

If I were you, I would stick to saying that the Shahada is taken from the ahadith.

Of course there is more than one Shahada found in the hadith literature, so I can understand why you may get a little excited about the issue and might want to try and make the Qur'an do double-duty.

But as I hope you can see from the mistake mentioned above, the Qur'an won't be of any help in answering the question of which Shahada is the right one, for the other "Shahada's" can be made up from statements of the Qur'an as well.

Muhammad said...

nma: "How can you worship a copycat God called Allah? YehWeh is not Allah in the Quran because YehWeh has a son called Jesus. Mohammed maybe a messenger of the non-existant copycat God Allah who is not the same God in the OT or Injeels."

Do you have anything in that round thing on your head?
Allah is the Arabic word for God!
Go to any Arabic Bible and see the word Allah yourself! Are you saying they are not Christian, because you refuse the word Allah?

Are you saying now that the Father is flesh? Wow, the Father also conceived a child with a woman? So the Father must also be human, since no non-human has EVER given birth to a human!

Semper: "If it is acceptable to splice disparate passages together, then not only can you come up with the Shahada in the Qur'an, but you can come up with anything.

If I were you, I would stick to saying that the Shahada is taken from the ahadith. "

Why? Does not the Qur'an affirm what is in the Hadith of Jibreel? So why is it wrong to affirm what the Ahadeeth themselves affirm?

"Of course there is more than one Shahada found in the hadith literature, so I can understand why you may get a little excited about the issue and might want to try and make the Qur'an do double-duty.

But as I hope you can see from the mistake mentioned above, the Qur'an won't be of any help in answering the question of which Shahada is the right one, for the other "Shahada's" can be made up from statements of the Qur'an as well."

Please enlighten us!! Lol

Semper Paratus said...

Muhammad said: Why? Does not the Qur'an affirm what is in the Hadith of Jibreel? So why is it wrong to affirm what the Ahadeeth themselves affirm?

Thanks for granting the point that you have to turn to the Ahadith to find the Shahada. QED

Muhammad said: Please enlighten us!! Lol

I take it that what you are asking for here are other "Shahada's" that an be found in various Hadith.

Here are a couple for you:

"It is narrated on the authority of Ubadah b. Samit that the messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: he who said: "There is no god but Allah, He is One and there is no associate with Him, that Muhammad is his servant and His messenger, that Christ is servant and the son of His slave-girl and he (Christ) His word which He communicated to Mary and is His Spirit, that Paradise is a fact and Hell is a fact," Allah would make him (he who affirms these truths enter Paradise through any one of its eight doors which he would like. (Sahih Muslim, 1:43)

Narrated 'Ubada:
The Prophet said, "If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Slave and His Apostle, and that Jesus is Allah's Slave and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit from Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, Allah will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few." (Junada, the sub-narrator said, " 'Ubada added, 'Such a person can enter Paradise through any of its eight gates he likes.")
(Sahih Al-Bukhari, 4:55:644)

He who LOL's last has the last L

Fernando said...

Muhammad saide: «Fernando, you are hilarious»… hummm: thakes for your assessemente off my wordes: this is an improvemente since your laste offensive statements; perhaps one day you’ll polite enoughe to see beyind my difficulties and juste try to talke aboutte my ideas and arguments thate (I must recognize) are poorly expressed through them…

Then Muhammad saide: «You said do I want you to speak in any other language… but do you speak all those languages as bad as English?»… deer Muhammad: I did nott say I spoke ANY OTHER LANGUAGE; I saide I speek italian, spanish, french, german, dutch and philipino (and some portuguese)… more: I did not say I wanted to SPEEK in those languages: I gabe you’re the opportunity to choose one off those languages in oirder thate I mighte express mie arguments to you in a language thate did not imply being offended bie you; I’m quite found to keep writing in English… and Muhammad: no, I speek and writte any off those languages (except portuguese) better than I speek and writte in English; iff thate was nott the case I woulde have neber granted you the opportunitie to chose another off them… butt perhaps we can change our wordes in Arabic: I’m studying itt for 6 mouthes…

Then Mohammad saide, to my gautlet to show me where in a (SINGULAR) surah and versicle where in the qur'an is written «There is no god but God, Muhammad is the Messenger of God»?... butt you gave us two ayaates (PLURAL)… nott one: you, clearly, twisted my demand… I’ll putt itt here again: where in the qur’an is written the shahadah: «There is no god but God, Muhammad is the Messenger of God»? I did not writte «There is no god but God […] Muhammad is the Messenger of God»?... hummm? Or in other wordes in witch Ayah is the shahadah? The demand still standes… thankes for your patience…

nma said...

Muhammed said...

Go to any Arabic Bible and see the word Allah yourself! Are you saying they are not Christian, because you refuse the word Allah?

O Muhammed, verily, I said “Allah in the Quran”. There is a difference. Though the meaning of the word Allah is God, Allah in the Quran is a specific God with specific attributes. So Arab Christians and Muslims believe in different Allahs, the former in the real God and the latter in a false imaginary God.

Are you saying now that the Father is flesh? Wow, the Father also conceived a child with a woman? So the Father must also be human, since no non-human has EVER given birth to a human!

O Muhammed, verily, Jesus was flesh while He was here on earth. If you deny that you are denying that anything is possible for God (something we both agree). Virgin birth does not mean that God personally had sex with a woman. It means God bypassed the sexual aspects of birth. Remember, anything is possible for God. Also, by saying Father also conceived a child with a woman and so the father must also be human, you are denying the virgin birth in the Quran itself.

Muhammad said...

The Prophet said, "If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Slave and His Apostle, and that Jesus is Allah's Slave and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit from Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, Allah will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few." (Junada, the sub-narrator said, " 'Ubada added, 'Such a person can enter Paradise through any of its eight gates he likes.") (Sahih Al-Bukhari, 4:55:644)

I bear witness to all of the above.

Listen, these Ahadeeth only mention what needs to be believed by the person to enter paradise without reckoning.

But that is not an open door for sin, as the Hadith says, even if his deeds were few.

We do not understand this religion by 1 Hadith or 2, we take into account other Ahadeeth, which also state, that if one's sins exceed his good deeds, then there must be a punishment to fill in the blanks. Either that or Allah will choose to forgive him.

Shahadah in the Arabic Language means a bearing of witness. So, that would mean that the whole religion is based upon Shahadah, as well as any other religion.

For example, Ash-hadu (I bear witness) that you people are on falsehood in your claim that Jesus was the Son of Allah.
However, you Ash-hadu that you are on the truth.
Multiple Shahadahs means nothing and I am not sure what point you are trying to make by citing them.

Religious creed is based upon Shahadah (bearing witness) of your faith by testimony by the tongue, actions by the limbs, and faith in the heart.

Ibn Mandhur mentions that Shahida (past tense - he witnessed), also means affirming, confirming, and attestation, meaning to say that if I affirm that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, I have attested to this faith, affirmed it, in action, statement, and belief, and confirmed it as being the necessary statement to accepting faith.

It can also mean, witnessing, as in, in person, as Ibn Mandhur says, but this is not the context as faith is abstract as most of the Salaf said.

Fernando, why are you getting emotional because I said you don't speak English that well?

Yes, you are right. As far as I know, there is no single verse mentioning La Ilaha Illa Allah, Muhammadun Rasulullah.


nma:
"O Muhammed, verily, Jesus was flesh while He was here on earth. If you deny that you are denying that anything is possible for God (something we both agree)."

O nma, verily Jesus was flesh. I agree that Jesus was human, not God, so if I said that Jesus was not flesh then I would have contradicted basic science.
It seems you do not have knowledge of your creed, I was clearly speaking about the Father, not the Son!

"Virgin birth does not mean that God personally had sex with a woman. It means God bypassed the sexual aspects of birth. Remember, anything is possible for God."

I know what a virgin is, and yes God did bypass the sexual aspects of birth, which means his intervention was miraculous, and was not in a tangible sense. There was no intervention between Him and Mary except with a miracle, which would refute that Jesus is the born son of God.
Because we all know how sons are made

"Also, by saying Father also conceived a child with a woman and so the father must also be human, you are denying the virgin birth in the Quran itself."

No I am not, because the Qur'an does not claim that God is Jesus' father, it claims that Allah created Jesus in his Mother's womb in a miraculous fashion.

You really seem to not understand your own creed, or my creed!!

Fernando said...

Muhamamd saide: «Fernando, why are you getting emotional because I said you don't speak English that well?»... no, mie friende Muhammad, I did not got emotional: it was you thate, from the starte, were emotional accusing me for causing damage in your sensible eyes... beside: I'm the firste too recognize thate mie english is poor... perhaps because when I was a forced muslim in the Filipinas I was prohibited to studie anything else that memorizind the recitation off the qur'an... a common practise in many muslm countries...

then Muhamamd saide: «Yes, you are right. As far as I know, there is no single verse mentioning the Shahadah»... thankes... this subject, for me is finished... butt juste one more pointe: you saide: «As far as I know»: so: your knowledge of the qur'an is not good enoughte to know thate for sure? hummm... so, perhaps, using your wordes, «you have a problem, and you should not be speaking about Islam»... hummm... I'm done...

thankes Muhammad...

nma said...

Muhammed said..

O nma, verily Jesus was flesh. I agree that Jesus was human, not God, so if I said that Jesus was not flesh then I would have contradicted basic science.

It seems you do not have knowledge of your creed, I was clearly speaking about the Father, not the Son!


O Muhammed, verily, please don't try to apply basic science to Religious issues because science is separated from religious issues (and that's one reason why Muslims' attempts to make scientific miracles in the Quran are so ridiculous!). Though He was flesh while on Earth, God was in Jesus and Jesus was in Him. And Jesus to be born in flesh was part of God's divine plan to redeem mankind.

I assume that you mean if the son was flesh, so is the father. Not really. Again, what you need to know is nobody is foolish enough to claim that father is flesh. You are speaking in human terms. When Christians say God is our father or Jesus is the son of God, they are not speaking in human terms. And you conveniently sidestepped my point that it was possible for God to do anything.

I know what a virgin is, and yes God did bypass the sexual aspects of birth, which means his intervention was miraculous, and was not in a tangible sense. There was no intervention between Him and Mary except with a miracle, which would refute that Jesus is the born son of God. Because we all know how sons are made

O Muhammed, verily, you are not refuting anything. When you speak about 'son' and 'father', you speak in a sexual sense. But if someone adopts an orphan, he can be considered as the orphan’s father. We Christians consider God as our father. So it is not all sex , flesh and houris, as you believe. The point is, even though there was no intervention between God and Mary except with a miracle, God is still Jesus’ father because God made it happen Jesus to be born in a special way.

You really seem to not understand your own creed, or my creed!!

O Muhammed, verily, You are jumping to wrong conclusions!

nma said...

Oh Muhammed,verily, God Himself said about Jesus:"You are my Son, whom I love. I am pleased with you!".

minoria said...

Hello Fernando:

I find your English fine.Don't pay attention to Moe.The only difference really is that when you write many times the same letter is repeated,I think it's a computer-keyboard thing.But I am impressed by the number of languages you can converse in.

In my case due to circumstances I can communicate in 3:Spanish,French and English.But only due to chance.I have tried to learn Italian and Portuguese and I can read them well but the grammar is too complicated for me to speak or write well.But I have little trouble reading articles in wikipedia in Italian and Portuguese.

Arabic is a strange language.It is 100% different from the others in that there is an official,standard Arabic nobody at all speaks as a native language.It's the one on tv.

Then there is the native language which is so different in Egypt,Algeria,Sudan,Iraq,etc from each other that they hardly understand each other unless they speak the artificial school Arabic.The idea that a language called "Arabic" is actually spoken from Morocco to Sudan to Iraq is a myth.It's actually separate languages like Italian,Spanish,Catalan,Portuguese and French.The Arabs call them "dialects" but a real dialect is a minor,and I repeat a minor variation of the general language.They are languages derived from Arabic,not dialects.Like Italian,Portuguese,French,etc came from Latin.Like Hindi-Urdu,Bengali,Punjabi,Gujarati,etc came from Sanskrit.

One question Fernando,have you ever heard Chabacano?I know it is the native language of 500,000 in the Philippines.It is not Spanish but a separate language,a Spanish creole.I have read articles in Chabacano on wikipedia and it is 95% Spanish.I can understand it almost perfectly.Keep up your posts and I am glad you were convinced by the NT.Really.

Fernando said...

Hi minoria... no, I do know master chabacano: I was raised speaking thalagog, eben iff there were other people who, at thate place, spoke, amoung themm, thate dialect... Filipinas were a major spanish colony, so: there are a lott off spanish names (mine, for example) and wordes... god blees!!!

Letitia (The Damsel) said...

Thank you for posting this video. I have written a short post about Acts 17 both on my blog Talitha, Koum! and Et Elle and have included the video. I hope your encounter makes it onto the news, because people need to see this.

Blessings,
Letitia