Many Christian readers will remember Hamza Abdul Malik as James White's first Muslim debate opponent back in the late 90s. Hamza used to run the Islamic Research and Propagation Center in New York, but has changed his views over the years. Hamza is now a "Qur'an-Only Muslim," i.e. a Muslim who believes that the Qur'an is the only source of authority for Muslims. This Tuesday and Wednesday (June 2nd and 3rd) I will be interviewing Hamza on Chris Arnzen's "Iron Sharpens Iron" radio program at 3:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time. Anyone with an internet connection can listen to the program via livestreaming on Chris's website, and anyone with a phone can call in with a question. I will also post the MP3s when we're done.
*****UPDATE*****The MP3 for the first part of the program can be downloaded here. Thanks to Sam Shamoun and the Fat Man for calling in and giving Hamza an opportunity to clarify his position.
I'm looking forward to those interviews David.
But what happened to the previous broadcast with James White? The mp3 only lasted like 25 mins.
You can download the complete version now from ISI website.
I called in way to early. The point of my call was to demonstrate that if a muslim is a quran only that surah 80 can not be explained. No were does it say that it was Mohamed who turned away. you can only get that information if you get it from the haddeeths.
I have heard the most bizar explinations from Quran onlyists on surah 80. From it was Noha to Jesus who turned away from the blind man.
I understood your point, but Hamza's position is slightly different. He only believes that the Qur'an is complete in that it tells Muslims everything they need to know for salvation. So he grants that there are all kinds of things in the Qur'an that aren't completely clear to us.
Ah-dooh, trimakasi Papa Budi.
WOW. I liked Hamza's explanation of Surah 39:23. That is an endictment to all Sunni Muslims. I would like to know what the Sunni Muslim has to say about this.
"What other hadith will they trust after Allah and his ayats?"
And, btw, I have always maintained that the Shahadah was shirk. It equates Muhammad with Allah in the salvation of souls and the asociation is made which Allah forbids.
how in the world is the shahadah 'shirk' in your view???
The shahadah is a declaration of faith and in NO way is it teaches Muslims that Mohammed (pbuh) is equal to God!
Mohammed is a prophet and slave of God and you will see this if you read an extension to that decalaration as it states 'there is none worthy of Worship but Allah and HE (Allah) has no partner and Muhammed is His SLAVE and Messenger'
How in the world is that shirk in your mind???
Being hypercritical of something leads you to an error...you have made an error here through your enthusiasm to criticise Islam without being objective.
According to the Muslim view one is oblidged to recognise Muhammad as being related to Allah. You cannot enter paradise without acknowlegding Muhammad. One is not even considered a Muslim without acknowledging Muhammad. Which is strange since Muslim means "one who submits". Submission to Allah has nothing to do with Muhammad or any prophet for that matter. That being said, Muhammad is equated with Allah in salvation of mankind and therefore SHIRK is the result.
You can deny it all you want, but these are the fact. I can see you denying the above facts about Muhammad to safe Islam's shirkoneous creed.
Yes... shahadah is absolutely a clear expression of shirk... Muslimes are so blind to realize this deficit in theirs escathological doctrine (I do not believe they've a soteriology) that they're inmune to the evidence...
Regarding the Shahada, it's interesting that one can escape hellfire by using a Shahada which excludes Mohammad:
Bukhari Volume 8, Book 76, Number 431:
Narrated 'Utban bin Malik Al-Ansari:
who was one of the men of the tribe of Bani Salim: Allah's Apostle came to me and said, "If anybody comes on the Day of Resurrection who has said: La ilaha illal-lah, sincerely, with the intention to win Allah's Pleasure, Allah will make the Hell-Fire forbidden for him."
Nakdimon said: "That being said, Muhammad is equated with Allah in salvation of mankind and therefore SHIRK is the result."
Take a look at this Nakdimon -
Bukhari Volume 8, Book 76, Number 570:
Allah's Apostle said, "Allah will gather all the people on the Day of Resurrection and they will say, 'Let us request someone to intercede for us with our Lord so that He may relieve us from this place of ours.' Then they will go to Adam and say, 'You are the one whom Allah created with His Own Hands, and breathed in you of His soul, and ordered the angels to prostrate to you; so please intercede for us with our Lord.' Adam will reply, 'I am not fit for this undertaking, and will remember his sin, and will say, 'Go to Noah, the first Apostle sent by Allah' They will go to him and he will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking', and will remember his sin and say, 'Go to Abraham whom Allah took as a Khalil. They will go to him (and request similarly). He will reply, 'I am not fit for this undertaking,' and will remember his sin and say, 'Go to Moses to whom Allah spoke directly.' They will go to Moses and he will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking,' and will remember his sin and say, 'Go to Jesus.' They will go to him, and he will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking, go to Muhammad as Allah has forgiven his past and future sins.' They will come to me and I will ask my Lord's permission, and when I see Him, I will fall down in prostration to Him, and He will leave me in that state as long as (He) Allah will, and then I will be addressed. 'Raise up your head (O Muhammad)! Ask, and your request will be granted, and say, and your saying will be listened to; intercede, and your intercession will be accepted.' Then I will raise my head, and I will glorify and praise my Lord with a saying(i.e. invocation) He will teach me, and then I will intercede, Allah will fix a limit for me (i.e., certain type of people for whom I may intercede), and I will take them out of the (Hell) Fire and let them enter Paradise. Then I will come back (to Allah) and fall in prostration, and will do the same for the third and fourth times till no-one remains in the (Hell) Fire except those whom the Qur'an has imprisoned therein." (The sub-narrator, Qatada used to say at that point, "...those upon whom eternity (in Hell) has been imposed.") (See Hadith No. 3, Vol 6).
Volume 8, Book 76, Number 571:
Narrated 'Imran bin Husain:
The Prophet said, "Some people will be taken out of the Fire through the intercession of Muhammad they will enter Paradise and will be called Al-Jahannamiyin (the Hell Fire people)."
I found this very interesting quote from Osama on his website:
"This means that Allah Almighty is not stuck with the previous Revelations that He Said, because there is always the possibility of people changing. This means that the End of Times Prophecies that were foretold in the book of Ezekiel may not necessarily be fulfilled, if and only if, the Muslims were not corrupt, and were True followers of GOD Almighty. Otherwise, the Biblical Prophecies could and would be fulfilled."
So according to Osama, some of Allah's prophets may in fact give prophecies that never come to pass.
That's interesting. What does Deuteronomy 18:20-22 tell us?
18:20 'But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.'
18:21 "You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken ?'
18:22 "When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
I wonder if these verses mean anything to Osama at all. Especially since they appear only a few verses after a supposed foretelling of Mohammad.
The page with the quote is:
Nakdimon, Shirk is: To worship other than Allah along with Allah.
We don't worship Prophet Muhammad. Secondly, with regards to your contention with belief in Prophet Muhammad as being the criterion between those who will enter paradise and those who will not, any of the Children of Israel who lived during the times of Jesus, or Moses, and did not believe in either of the two, are also disbelievers.
Allah (God) has the right to place laws for His creation on the earth, that if you do not follow Noah, Abraham, Jesus, Moses, or Muhammad, then you will not be granted the pleasurable abode in the hereafter.
You have no right to tell God what he has the right to do or not do.
Did you even read the narrations from Bukhari I posted!?!?
It says that your "prophet" gets to intercede for people allowing them entrance to Jannah, and he even takes some people out of Hell and puts them in Heaven. Muhammad participates in the salvation of some of the Muslims. This is shirk. There is no doubt about that, and no way around that.
Today's Islamic religions/Translations of the Qur'an/Propaganda of the mental control grid/Cults are largely based on the Hadith Literature, not the Qur'an.
For what's demonstrable thusfar, please see: Quranite.com
Quran vs Hadith
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