Tuesday, April 14, 2009

Debate in Michigan this Sunday, April 19th


"Did Jesus Die by Crucifixion?"
Ehteshaam Gulam of
David Wood of
Acts 17 Apologetics

Sunday, April 19th
Calvary Church of Romulus
11338 Ozga Road
Romulus MI 48174
Click here for a map, and here for the church's website.

UPDATE: Debate starts at 4 PM
Let us know you're coming, and we'll reserve you a spot.
Also, we'll probably be going out to dinner afterwards,
so come hang out with us!

Ehteshaam Gulam is a committed Muslim, a researcher of comparative religion, a historian, and a student of Eastern Michigan University. He is currently working on his first publication, "From Christianity to Islam".

It'd be great to see some of you guys there. Please pray for God's victory through His servants this weekend!

*****UPDATE***** We had the wrong church and address in the original post. It's been corrected above.


Radical Moderate said...

oh no not another Deedat or Naik imatator.

From his article Was Jesus cruified.

"Special thanks to Doctor Zakir Naik and the late Ahmed Deedat for their work on this subject. All arguements are taken from both their debates, respectively. I claim no originality here)."

I'm begging to think that original thought and creativity is a little to much to ask from Muslims.

Another classic inconsistency taken from the same article.

"Apologist Christians embarrass themselves when they unwittingly or deceptively violate the rules of historiography by using after-the-event writings as evidence for the event itself. Not one of these writers gives a source or backs up his claims with evidential material about the death of Jesus. Therefore there is no historical evidence that Jesus died on the cross."

Hmmm wasnt the haddeeths written 100 to two hundread years after mohamed? And what about the Quran's claim that jesus wasnt crucified?

I can already hear the response.
The haddeeths have the ishnads so we can trace back every authentic hadeeth (that is the haddeeths that only I agree with) to the person that orginaly said it.

The quran is the orginal word of Allah and allah knows best.

Oh I'm reading more of his "Article and it gets better and better or worse and worse depenidng on your position. I'm not going to comment anymore. Save it for Dr David Wood. I'm definilty going to be there. :)

Radical Moderate said...

This is insane, i know I said i wouldnt comment anymore but i cant help myself. The conclusion taken from another article. Jesus the Messiah or Jesus the Son of the Father-- Who was Crucified?

"At least two Canonical Gospels or Early Christianity support the Islamic position that Jesus Christ was not crucified and had got away from the alleged crucifixion. Pilate had released Jesus Barabbas-Jesus the son of the father, the Jesus Christ we all know and had another Jesus, Jesus the King of the Jews or the Messiah, an insurrectionist probably about to lead a revolt against Rome to be crucified. After this, the Gospel writers wanted to finish their theological story and thus made up the story to make it look like Jesus Christ was crucified when in reality he had gotten away, thanks to Pontius Pilate. Anyways, this supports the Islamic view point of the crucifixion as always Allah knows best! "

What? Excuse me? How does a person come up with this nonsense?

My head is spinning from this total circulular reasoning.

So the the bible says that the Rebel Barnabas was set free by pilot and Christ was crucified. But it is Barnabas who is christ, that was let go. Another man a Jesus King of the Jews who is not jesus Christ was crucified. Some how the gosple writers new this, how they could of known this since it was Allah who confussed them and made them believe that it was Jesus Christ who was crucified is a mystery. But none the less the lying writers of the Gosples changed the story to support a relegion that they knew was a lie so they too can experiance the joys of jewish and roman persecution, tortur, beign stoned to death or dying in other imagantive ways.

My favorite is having your wife and children set on fire at night so the crowed can watch you being ripped apart by wild beasts or cut down by gladiators. Ahh the night games. Doesnt that just sounds like fun. yeah that would cause any sane and rational man to make up a lie when they know the truth to create or support a relegion they know to be false. Makes snese to me.
The presuposition that is involved is mind numbing.

And of corse the muslim tag line, the trade mark of every muslim appologist.

"as always Allah knows best! "
In reality this is becoming a punch line for a very old and sick joke.

I will say this for this young man, at least this one is orginal. I have never heard this one before. he is wasting his talents, he is way to imaginitive, he should write for Hollywood.

Radical Moderate said...

Oh please someone stop me, i have to go to bed. But I could not let this little gem go. From the same article defending the position that Barabas, is really Jesus Christ. Becasue Jesus Barabas meens Jesus the Son of the Father.

"Although Jesus Christ is not called the “Son of the father”

So let me get this straight. The muslim says that since you can not find anywhere in the bible were jesus says these words "I am God worship me" the claim that christians make in the divinity of Christ can not be believed.

But the muslim claim that Barabas, aka Jesus son of the father, is really Jesus Christ, even though no where in the bible doest it say the exact words "Jesus the son of the father" is to be believed?

Can you say Inconsitency?

Radical Moderate said...

Oh I can not let this go.
Another quote from a different article. The Unprecedented Corruption
By Paulinism of Bible Analysis

"Because our
English translations, beginning with the KJV (a Calvinist production). The KJV is a calvanist production. Where is Dr James White when you need him. :)

Nakdimon said...

The Fat Man wrote: Another classic inconsistency taken from the same article.Not to mention the fact that the Qur’an is also an “after the fact” book. Almost everything, except the oft-repeated compulsory urge of Allah to condemn kaafirs to hellfire, is written “after the fact”.

Conclusion: The Qur’an “unwittingly or deceptively violates the rules of historiography”!

Why does it seem that Muslims cant reason against our faith without destroying their own faith before they touch on anything we believe?

Nakdimon said...

Because our
English translations, beginning with the KJV (a Calvinist production). The KJV is a calvanist production. Where is Dr James White when you need him
LOL! I always find it fascinating that 16th century men can produce 17th century translations. I believe the brilliant Dan Barker made the same claim on the Infidel Guy Show?

Anonymous said...

When he claims no originality, this could be old stuff.

Is Gulam going to dispute that Jesus was put on the cross? I remember WLC making very forceful points in his debate with Shabir Ally.
Or is he defending the swoon theory?

A friend of mine recently did a video on YouTube were this on was dissected

Here are also two articles dealing with the medical issues



Royal Son said...

I believe the reference to Barrabas meaning son of a father was probably taken from the debate between William Lane Craig and Richard Carrier. Of course, the argumentation being used was completely different, but it's amazing to see how far muslims will go to push their dogma.

Royal Son said...

Ok, I could be wrong here since I don't know Arabic, but would Ibn Abbas have the same meaning? as Barabbas ?

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

I just fail to see, based on this muslims website, how he offers anything that rises above the weak material of answering-Christianity and anything that comes near the material on islamic-awareness.

Being a co-worker of Nadir Ahmed also triggers a few thoughts.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...


Truth will defeat error, I believe that God will use David Wood in this debate to expose the lie and present the truth.

God bless you Wood, we will pray for you and the event.

kelton graham said...

What time does the debate start?

IslamSINS said...

Nabeel, did you post a time for this debate? I don't see one. I'm not sure I'll drive to Romulus, though this might be one of the few debates from this site that I will have an opportunity to see, so I'm weighing my emotions right now. For about the past two years, I've only listened to the debates as they're posted to sundry websites, and I find I no longer listen to the same moldy rhetoric presented by the Muslims. When you've heard it a kabillion times, it loses even its entertainment value. Watching the vids allows easy skipping through the Muslim position. So, I'm not certain that I can actually sit through a debate where I'm forced to listen to them. Maybe I can bow my head and pray during their presentation.

David Wood said...

The debate starts at 4:00, but you'll want to get there early (and, if anyone gets there really early, they can watch Nabeel while he records some lectures). Plus, we can hang out afterwards.

Michelle Qureshi said...

Like David said, 4pm. Shoot for around 3:45. Let me know ahead of time that you're coming (nabeel@acts17.net) and I'll save you a spot.

Then we can hang out and go to dinner afterwards.

Locrian said...

Well guys, I'll definitely be there as support guys along IslamSins. I thank her for bringing this to my attention.

I encourage anyone in Michigan reading this to make the commitment to come. With Dearborn being one of the highest populations of Muslims in the country, I'm sure the Muslim turnout will be quite high.

You're in our prayers.

Jay44 said...

I have mixed feelings about the debate topic. On the one hand, it's a great topic for an informed Christian to perform well on and it has the most potential in getting Muslims to seriously reconsider the Quran's accuracy on the matter. On the other hand, however, by debating this topic it gives a certain legitimacy to the question which isn't at all warranted. The question of the veracity of Jesus' death by crucifixion is not disputed by any serious historian today. Muslims really need to come to grips with this fact and I fear a debate on this we'll just fuel the problem.

You should honestly for the first 5 minutes David just quote New Testament historians on this so as to really drive home the point (quoting Bart Ehrman on this is a must!!). I think if you can show just how isolated Muslims are from professional scholarship concerning their views of the crucifixion, all the while presenting the strong evidence for and against your opponent's position, then you'll have a rock solid performance. Good Luck.

P.S. This is being recorded right?

Anonymous said...

Apealing to scholarly consensus and then quoting the early sources/father (igantius,polycarp) and then the Biblical data and as to why it is reliable is probably what will win that debate. I agree with Jr that by debating this topic it gives the false impression that it is a point of dispute amongst scholars.

However I am glad David is debating this as the Gospel is centered around this event and when muslims face the facts when they are presented, they may become Christian. Good luck David; God bless.

ubiquitouserendipity said...

after i saw that my friend islamsins is going to be there with locrian i truly considered driving over. but the 1500+ mile trip is truly prohibitive. gas being so low now makes it a possibility, but the distance and time would be wearing,,, i am a former 82nd airborne paratrooper ('71-'72) but anymore flying turns me into a quivering mass of anxiety,,, thus i refuse to fly until Jesus comes

so at 3pm mdt i will be sure to be in prayer for dr. wood

as for mohammedan moslum debaters: tired retreaded arguments made fashionable by the dead-ant deedat, and the intellectual coward naik. the best is shabir ally, and he is just a more articulate stooge of mohammed and his pimp-god allah. slovenly slothful intellectual imps, fed and fueled by the eternally burning imp satan

if gulam, in this debate, presents a single unique argument i will go on monday to the local homeless shelter, coincidentally a Christian ministry (where are the mohammedan moslum soup kitchens?), and donate $200 to help feed the homeless of my community

years ago when i was employed at the mental health center here i would go out at night and do outreach: e.g., seek folks in need. one man i assisted was an abdullah from afghanistan, who had frostbite, and was coincidentally turned away from the mission because of drunkenness (gotta' have standards, no matter how low). i took him to the hospital to get tended and found him some boots and socks (called a friend of similar size). i never considered whether abdullah was a Christian, i just knew he was hurting (that's how Jesus found me)

a young male friend of my youngest son is a mohammedan moslum (or so he thinks ocassionally). it is sad to see an american lose their love of country and home and become a hater of all that has been put forth to insure a happy, healthy, successful life

i guess the only good coming out of mohammedanism is those who come to Christ

the very best of G d's blessings to david wood in this endeavor. Peace, in His love

Anonymous said...

just to give you my 2 cents about this upcoming debate.

I don't think we should engage in public debates with 'apologist' like Gulam.With all duo Respect, but i don't believe he will bring anything new to the table.Based on his articels I am from the opinion that he will be off no value for anybody that wants a scholary approch of the subject.

Fernando said...

Locrian... a new postter is allways a goodw news... gladd to see you arounde: welcome, and hoppe to see you again inn the future arounde here... may the love of the Onlie an True God be with you (and with youre supporte to this debatte in Mixigan)... I'll be praying for you and for Doctor Wood...

Fernando said...

ChristianJR4 asked the same question I was goingue to make: "This is being recorded right?"... to all those off us who, like me, are libing in the other side off the greatt water it would be greatt...

Anonymous said...

BTW: Thank you for sending me that file David...It will come in handy I'm sure

Radical Moderate said...

ChristianJR4 said
"(quoting Bart Ehrman on this is a must!!)"

Oh yes you must, you just have to, really you do, Quote the Gosple of Bart Erhman. :)

Radical Moderate said...

One more thing about this fine young man. He is writing a book the title "From Christianity to Islam" Is it just me or does this title imply that he was a christian and became a muslim. Becasue his bio on his website says.

Religious Background: Born and raised a Muslim.

Radical Moderate said...

I just can not let this guy go. My thanks to Rafel to pointing this out to me. His debate requriements.

"A question I get asked frequently is am I willing to debate other Christian apologetics and preachers about Islam or in favor of Islam? The answer is YES—I am willing to participate in a formal debate. But I am only willing to debate two topics with Christians. And they are:
-Was Jesus Crucified?
-Is Jesus God?"

So he is willing to debate in favor of islam, but only on christian topics. Is he afraid to defend his faith in a positive light.

Another quote.

You must be respectful of Islam, Prophet Muhammad and the Quran. This means that no insults against Prophet Muhammad or anything hateful in regards to Islam should be thrown by my Christian opponent. I will not tolerate this, it’s immature and unscholarly. I don’t do this—I don’t insult or ridicule Christianity or the Bible and either should my opponent do so for Islam or the Quran. If this does happen, I will call off the debate.

So saying the bible is corrupt, saying that Paul was a imposter and liar, implying that the Gosple writers were forgers and liars, using words like "Alleged Crusifiction" and "Jesus allegedly said" this or that. How is that not insulting to christians?

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...


Are you the one I met on a Christian Pal-talk room on social issues yesterday or before yesterday?

Radical Moderate said...

Ok I really have to step away from this guy. he's like a train wreck, I hate to watch but just cant look away. Another quote.

I am not interested in debating anonymous unscholarly loser atheists on the internet that attack Islam like Atheist Hate Monger, Ali Sina. Ali Sina and his Hate Monger cheerleaders have already been taken care of by Nadir Ahmed of Examinethetruth.com. I just don’t feel it’s a productive use of time since their material is mostly polemical and has already been refuted.

Nadir Ahmed, NADIR AHMED. Ok enough said.

ben malik said...

if gulam, in this debate, presents a single unique argument i will go on monday to the local homeless shelter, coincidentally a Christian ministry (where are the mohammedan moslum soup kitchens?), and donate $200 to help feed the homeless of my communityYou should do that anyway for the glory of the Lord Jesus.

Michelle Qureshi said...

Yeah, haha. I was gonna try to come up with something unique and feed it to Ehteshaam just so Ubiquitous S. would have to donate 200 dollars :-)

Ho-Logos said...

I would wish you luck, David, but the Muslim side has absolutely no historical support for their position.

All I can say is have fun with the loose, unfounded mess your opponent will throw at you.

Fernando said...

Yes... I beggin to become ahware off the facte...

oes the debates onn this toppic may gibe the impression that there're any historical doubt about it? I don't know...

but iff I saw anouncing a debate between too people, one defendind that the Sun exists, and the other saying itt does not, I woulde becomme astonished...

It would bee, never the less, a great oportunity to have a good laugh...

but the topic of Doctor Wood debate is a serious matter... not because one can habe any doubt of the truth, butt to see, and show, how muslimes are totallie indisposed to see the truthe if theyr ideologic tradition says to do so... It's so sad...

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

I would appreciate very much if you could all pray for a series of apologetics lectures I will taking in UK, starting 22 April.

The first lecture on the 22 april will be on the reliability of the Bible, with a emphasis on the Gospels.

I have posted a range of information on my own personal blog:


I wonder Querish and Wood if I could post it on here too.

This particular series will be held within a church community that specifically has asked about it; hence since this is their initiativ I am not revealing the address here.

I am hoping and planning to provide lectures and seminars open to Christians and muslims alike in nearby future.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

In fact I have a number of sessions to take this coming week.

Beside the one on the 22 April I am doing 5 more apologetics session with two groups of missionary students.

The Second seminar will be held in May on 'A Christian critic of the historicity and integrity of the Qur'an'.

I am still preparing that one.

Keep also in prayer (God willing) a series of talks on the Qur'an and modern science, which I am planning in June, when my present studies are over. These will be recorded and put on the youtube.

I expect also to do a public debate in June or July. But I do not know enough details to reveal anything more than that.

Anonymous said...

Hogan ellijah:

You mean the room where we discussed the textuel relliability of the Bible versus the Qur'an.

Yep that was me.

ubiquitouserendipity said...

ben malik said...

if gulam, in this debate, presents a single unique argument i will go on monday to the local homeless shelter, coincidentally a Christian ministry (where are the mohammedan moslum soup kitchens?), and donate $200 to help feed the homeless of my communityYou should do that anyway for the glory of the Lord Jesus.
April 15, 2009 4:57 PM

with all due respect brother ben malik, i do that as regularly as i can. being a disabled vet, i am on a limited income, but i live meagerly, frugally. thus, what i can i give. what is neat for me is that there are men at the shelter whom i know from my former work in the community. men who were deemed "lost causes" by "polite society." and to see them having been redeemed is particularly heart rending. the power of the love of Jesus is incalcuable.

G d bless you ben malik. thank you for your input. Peace, in His love, joe

ubiquitouserendipity said...

Nabeel Qureshi said...

Yeah, haha. I was gonna try to come up with something unique and feed it to Ehteshaam just so Ubiquitous S. would have to donate 200 dollars :-)
April 15, 2009 8:45 PM

brother dr. nabeel qureshi ~ i will mail you the receipt on tuesday, regardless of the debate topics addressed. with pleasure. it will be made out to: acts 12 ministry

Ari said...

I would wish you luck, David, but the Muslim side has absolutely no historical support for their position.

All I can say is have fun with the loose, unfounded mess your opponent will throw at you. April 16, 2009 12:28 AM

spitting coffee at your screen is funny,,, sometimes. the peace and blessings of G d our Savior.

ubiquitouserendipity said...

to dr. nabeel ~ ooops,,, make that acts 17 ministry. G d bless, and keep the powder dry

Fernando said...

ubiquitouserendipity... Yikes... you're getting realli younger and younger... a new phenomenon like the case off Benjamin Button?

ubiquitouserendipity said...

Blogger Fernando said...

ubiquitouserendipity... Yikes... you're getting realli younger and younger... a new phenomenon like the case off Benjamin Button?

April 16, 2009 12:47 PM

brother fernando ~ i know that i will live forever in the Presence of our Great G d and Savior, but the joys i find in youth are in the love i glean from my family,,, especially my grandchildren (i have seven). cecelia jo is her name. i took this shot for you, just now. fading, fading, but still a flower in G d's garden. G d bless you fernando

ben malik said...

My brother Joe,

I hope what I said didn't come off sounding like I was somehow implying that you do not give to the Lord's work. My statements were made in light of what you wrote since your words could be misconstrued to mean that you will not given unless x happens, and I know that's not want you meant.

I pray that our gracious and faithful God blesses you and provides for all your needs for the sake of Jesus Christ his blessed Son.

Love, peace, and joy to you and your loved ones in the Messiah Jesus.

Michelle Qureshi said...


I didn't mean to force you into a corner there, or make it sound like you don't give. I was just kidding around, but I praise God for your generous heart.

I read your note on not wanting to take air travel - I can't imagine what you've been through, but I can understand why you made your decision. If you wouldn't mind telling us whereabouts you live, I will keep you posted if we ever come to your neck of the woods.

God bless you, brother! In Christ,

ubiquitouserendipity said...

brothers ben and dr. nabeel ~ may the blessings of G d our Savior keep you and your beloveds all the days of your lives. i take no offense at the words of my Christian brothers and sisters regarding my personal presentation. i do what i do, and do not excuse myself to any man. but knowing that communicating through text leaves out many of the nuances of voice and body language i understand that we all can misread each and the other solely due to our own personal limitations of language, cultural heritage, and predisposition toward either cordiality or privacy. in this case i do not seek to find offense in the words of my brethren. i am edified in my life by the words and work of the both of you. so please, no excusing or apologizing is necessary.

ben malik ~ thank you for your gracious and thoughtful words of blessing. i'm glad you "called my hand," for now i will make the contribution regardless of the silliness of some mohammedan's arguments

dr. nabeel ~ you are one of the gentlest voices i've read/heard on the internet. i would not for a moment impute to you any mean-spiritedness, and took your ribbing as just that: good natured ribbing. i will assume that my responses were not clear regarding how i took your comments. for that i apologize.

as for flying: in the 90's i had two horrid flights out of salt lake city, and vowed to never again travel by air. no big deal, except i'll never get to hawaii 'til they finish that bridge (? "what bridge...?" you may ask,,, me too). and since all that i cherish in this life is within 20 miles of my front porch right here under the big sky of yellowstone country, there really is no good reason to fly 'til Jesus comes.

finally, if you ever get to my neck of the woods, please do let me know, and i'll provide the guide. otherwise, you'll get lost here in montucky

Fernando said...

Dear brother ubiquitouserendipity...

thankes for the pic... it's greatte to know someone like thatt... know I have a face to putt in your explendid blogeer's name...

I'll try to do the same in the next days, eben when I don't habe a digital camera...

and I can onlie dream about whatte is like habing snow near home... here, near the great grey sea, we have rain, quite a lot, but is very difficulte to habe snow... the last one I remeber was in 83!!!

God bless!!!

David Wood said...

NOTE TO THOSE PLANNING TO ATTEND THE DEBATE!!! We had the wrong address in the original post. It's been fixed.

Sepher Shalom said...

May Adonai strengthen you by His Spirit for this debate David.

Psalm of an Apologist:

Hear my cry, O God; Give heed to my prayer[1]. Let the lying lips be mute, which speak arrogantly against the righteous with pride and contempt[2]. There is nothing reliable in what they say; their inward part is destruction itself, their throat is an open grave; they flatter with their tongue[3]. The words of the LORD are pure words; as silver tried in a furnace on the earth, refined seven times[4]. We will sing for joy over your victory, and in the name of our God we will set up our banners, May the LORD fulfill all your petitions[5]. Your adversaries have roared in the midst of Your meeting place; they have set up their own standards for signs[6]. Let them be caught in the plots which they have devised[7]. My shield is with God, who saves the upright in heart[8]. And my enemy will say, "I have overcome him," and my adversaries will rejoice when I am shaken[9]. I have set the LORD continually before me; because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken[10]. From the mouth of infants and nursing babes You have established strength because of Your adversaries, to make the enemy and the revengeful cease[11]. I call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised[12]. The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our stronghold. Selah[13]. Arise, O LORD, confront him, bring him low[14], That I may proclaim with the voice of thanksgiving and declare all Your wonders[15]. What god is great like our God?[16] You are the God who works wonders; You have made known Your strength among the peoples[17], You have by Your power redeemed Your people[18]. I will give thanks to the LORD with all my heart; I will tell of all Your wonders[19]. Arise, O God, and plead Your own cause,[20] For by You I can run upon a troop; and by my God I can leap over a wall[21]. You have also given me the shield of Your salvation, and Your right hand upholds me; and Your gentleness makes me great[22]. The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of my salvation[23]. Some boast in chariots and some in horses, but we will boast in the name of the LORD, our God[24]. I shall lift up the cup of salvation and call upon the name of the LORD[25]. Amein.Psalm 61:1, Psalm 31:18, Psalm 5:9, Psalm 12:6, Psalm 20:5, Psalm 74:4, Psalm 10:2, Psalm 7:10, Psalm 16:8, Psalm 13:4, Psalm 8:2, Psalm 18:3, Psalm 46:7, Psalm 17:13, Psalm 26:7, Psalm 77:13, 77:14, 77:15, Psalm 9:1, Psalm 74:22, Psalm 18:29, Psalm 18:35, Psalm 18:46, Psalm 20:7, Psalm 116:13

Fernando said...

Sepher Shalom... trully beautiful... may God bless you for this simpathique and profound gesture!!!

nma said...

Denying crusifixion is denying the birth and life of Jesus. Gospels, even the false ones like Barnabas's, would not have been written if it were not for crusifixion and resurrection and Mohammed would not have found his material for his book. In Quran, Allah admits giving Gospels to Jews and Christians, and Gospels means "Good news", which is resurrection. Thus denying resurrection is denying Quran itself, which is self-contradictory for muslims.

Radical Moderate said...

Well looks like I'm making friends.
From Davids Oponnets web site.

4/17/09 Holy Crap. The readers of David Wood and Nabeel Qureshi's blog are just plain idiotic. I was reading their comments and man--- these people are completely dumb-- especially a blogger named The Fat Man (yeah thats going to get you laid). A classic example of why I don't do online debates--- theres no telling how dumb and ignorant these people can get when in comes to both Christianity and Islam. In the future I'll post my responses to them. Anyways The Debate between me and David Wood is happening this Sunday in Romolus Michigan--- I'll post the video as soon as I am done with Finals and my review of the debate. Anways I want to thank Arabic Christian Persective and David Wood for this debate.

I espicaly like the The Fat Man (yeah thats going to get you laid).

David Wood said...

Oh boy. I was going to take it easy on Ehteshaam because I think this is his first debate. But now he's insulted the Fat Man, along with the other fans of the site.

This one's for you, Fat Man.

Jay44 said...

Gulam wrote:

"The point of this website was to be as scholarly and professional as possible like Richard Carrier's writings on Infidels.org. Even though he is an atheist, he is respectful, scholarly, etc. I think he's the only one who is mature enough to discuss things about Religion in a professional way-- other losers on the internet are way too aggresive and nasty-- another reason why I avoid going to Anti-Islamic sites and debating readers of Anti-Islamic sites-- these people make me sick."For someone who apparently wants to be all professional and scholarly, Mr. Gulam surely doesn't write like one. He could seriously work on his English too.

Radical Moderate said...

I'm such a instigator :). Now Dr Wood I apreciate your comment. However I'm born and raised South Side Chicago. I got thick SKIN ans well as thick Fat. Its not the clothes that make me look fat its the Fat that makes me look fat :)

Radical Moderate said...

My new friend sent me a email with a link to a article that supports his positon that although Christ was crucified (a position that denies the position of his quran) he survived the experiance.
Its a link of infidels.org. A website that states in About us Section

"As such, "naturalism implies that there are no supernatural entities," such as gods, angels, demons, ghosts, or other spirits, "or at least none that actually exercises its power to affect the natural world."[1] And without miraculous interventions into nature from a spiritual realm, neither prayer nor magick are more effective than a placebo."

Below is my response.

This is to funny. I just read over the site you posted.
First you are using atheist arguments. These same athiest will disagree with your quran and mohamed.

You say that you will not deabte those that insult your prophet, but yet in your zeal to attack Christ and Chrisian beleif's. You will use arguments from people who will not hesitate to bash your prophet, and insult your relegion.

From a article posted on the same website.

"There is, however, another totalitarian ideology which needs to be considered here...
Mahommedanism and Bolshevism are practical, social, unspiritual, concerned to win the empire of this world ... What Mahommedanism did for the Arabs, Bolshevism may do for the Russians.(3) "

From another article from the same website.

But in India, because of the staunch resistance of the 4000 year old Hindu faith, the Muslim conquests were for the Hindus a pure struggle between life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and their populations massacred. Each successive campaign brought hundreds of thousands of victims and similar numbers were deported as slaves. Every new invader made often literally his hill of Hindu skulls. Thus the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000, was followed by the annihilation of the entire Hindu population there; indeed, the region is still called Hindu Kush, 'Hindu slaughter'. "


I dont think you will be using those arguments from that website that attacks christ and christianity to defend your prophet and the dogma of islam.

Radical Moderate said...

Now I'm hurt, he changed his post and took down the post about me. And I thought we shared a moment. Im hurt now, really hurt :)


Fernando said...

I'm getting worried about mister Ehteshaam... he's looking more, and more, like mister "The Great Ghamidi"...

May God blees you for and in this debate doctor Wood.

Anonymous said...

And again we will show how inconsistent the muslim 'apoligist' are.

Gulam writes on his website in response to dave from the site ex christians:

'First off if Dave is reading this, then I would like to thank him. Making fun of Christianity is one thing I enjoy doing in my spare time'


Making fun of christianity is one thing he enjoys? But didn't he say that he would like a scholary approch and the 'respected' christianity in his debate requirements?

Hmm, taqqiyah?

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Hi again Rafael, keep on the good work.

Any news about the debate, anyone?

ubiquitouserendipity said...

as i begin it is 20 minutes prior to the debate. i prayed that everyone's travel be safe and that the meeting of new brothers and sisters blesses the hearts of the believers. i pray there are many there to support G_d's blessed Truth: Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Father, Creator of heaven and earth, You who gives us very life by Your Breath, i pray that you anoint your servant david wood Lord, and that the Holy Spirit move the words and thoughts through your servant, and that his words are representative of the One True and Living G_d. give him peace Lord, that he may remain focused on the task, and not be drawn aside by fallacy, illogic, and the distortion of facts, history, and Truth. bless his words Lord, that he may succeed in casting down imaginations and every high thought which exalts itself against Your glory Father. Lord i pray that those in the audience who know that they are following a false god will come to know that Jesus is indeed Lord and G_d.
in the name of He who loved me first, Jesus Christ the Righteous, amen

cut him no quarter david

Peace, in His love, joe

Radical Moderate said...

Hogan Elijah Hagbard the debate should be finishing up about now. I'm hoping that either David, or Nabeel posts a update tonight.

Radical Moderate said...

Ok my post was published that meens one of the Doctors is in. Do share tell us whats up. What happend how did it go. Post any audio or video :)

Locrian said...

Well Hogan Elijah Hagbard, I can give you my opinion. I'm sure David will chime in once he gets a chance.

First off I'd like to say it was nice to finally meet David, whose videos and debates I've watched for for the last year or so. Seems like a nice guy, and I hope his computer fared well after the drop it took from the pew.

David started the debate with the usual fair. The secular and Christian references for the death of Christ on the cross. To anyone here, it's the usual credits most of have heard. It was a good presentation though. David was clear and concise, and the flow of his presentation was where the enjoyment of the material, that anyone that deals with Islamic apologist ended. Ehteshaam Gulam was next on the mic.

Mr.Gulam presentation lay on the premise that even Paul only believed in a spiritual rising, and not a bodily, thus proving that Christ apparently healed himself in his spacious crib for 3 days(you'll get this joke when you see the video) before appearing to Thomas and the others. Though he hits on a few verses he thinks solidifies his argument, the debater is cursed with pause-itis. He hemed and hawed so much, and if anyone has ever watched Judge Judy where she yell's at the defendents "Um is not an answer sir!", you would get an image of his debating skills. Now people may think I say this with some bias against the Muslim presenter, but I am not exagerating. Listening to his presentation was painful. Excrutiatingly painful.

David's second time around he has some ammunition, and goes after the points attempted by Mr.Gulam. David addresses his arguments citing verses in the same chapters. He addresses arguments like "No disciple even witnessed the crucifixion, so it's all hearsay" by trying to explain John was there. I thought David was through in his first rebuttal.

Mr.Gulams first rebuttle was more of the same as his opening. He kept citing the same verses by Paul, ignoring every verse in the same chapters brought up by Wood. At this point the debate is getting terminally painful, and when Gulams said Allah was not a deceiver, which all of us know is one of Allah's ninety-nine names I about fell out of the pew.

It came to a point where even Mr. Wood said " I don't know what else to say" or something to that effect. The younger Muslim debater was way out of his class. I started to record the audio on this on my laptop, but stopped the recording by Ehteshaam second time up. Other then going to see David in person, I'm not sure this debate was worth the gas and the two and a half hour drive one way. I wish David would have had a much more compelling, and educated opponent. This, of course, was not Davids fault.

One thing I will say about a remark this man said and a conversation afterwards:

"This is a very nice church, I've not been in many churchs in my life".

My mother, who went with me, asked if I thought this young man was exercising taqiyya, or he was just really green and uneducated.

One only has to look at the title of his upcoming book "From Christianity to Islam" to make an educated guess. The title, no matter what he may give in a defense, implies one that was a Christian, now a Muslim, and the journey.

He also implies at the end of the debate, his good friend is Nadir Ahmed. This alone should tell you volumes about the mans scholarship.


ben malik said...

In his blo post on David Wood he claims to have been a protestant christian-

I think Islam is every bit as ridiculous as Christianity. But, if I were still a Christian, I might have to pause and think after reading statements like this defending Islam. Would I just chock it up to Satan counterfeiting good Christian apologetics so as to cause confusion? When I was still a Protestant Christian, and I heard Catholics defending their latest apparition of Mary, I'd think they were either lying, or if they really had visions, the visions were just a Satanic counterfeit. Occasionally, however, when logic would prevail, Catholic stories of silly apparitions and idiotic miracles would make me stop and questions whether I wasn't just fooling myself too.http://islamicapologetics.blogspot.com/2007/03/response-to-dave-web-master-of-ex.html

Msybe David can confirm if this is true.

Radical Moderate said...

Locrian.... Thanks for your recap. I cant wait for the video or audio. I only wish I would of went.

Allow the fatman to propheized.

I prophized that Davids oponet will say that since Dr Wood said "I don't know what else to say" that the muslim will say words to the affect that he totaly stumped David Wood with his arguments. That his arguments could not be refuted".

Lets see if the brophet fatman is right :)

Michelle Qureshi said...

Ben Malik--

I think Ehteshaam was quoting someone. Try reading it again and let us know.


Radical Moderate said...

ben malik
I dont understand waht you are saying. You lost me. And thats not saying much :)

ben malik said...


He is not quoting someone else. He is responding to David and referring to the claims that Catholics used to make to him concerning apparitions of Mary when he was a Protestant Christian which he didn't buy. So he is actually claiming to be a former Protestant.

ben malik said...


The Muslim debater claims he used to be a Protestant Christian. This means that he is a convert to Islam.

Sepher Shalom said...

ben Malik,

I'm not sure whether Mr. Gulam says that he is a convert to Islam from Christianity, as I haven't read or heard any of his statements about the issue, but I think Nabeel is correct in saying that he is quoting someone else in the link you provided. I think the gentleman he is quoting is named "Dave". I found this on that blog post:

"Second my response to him. Dave wrote:" If he isn't a convert, I do have to wonder why he would title his book "From Christianity to Islam". He may have brought this type of confusion on due to the title of his book.

ben malik said...

Sepher, you are correct. Sorry for tha blatant oversight. For some strange reason I thought Dave was David Wood and that Ehteshaam was responding to him. Now I see he is quoting some forner Christian named Dave.

Royal Son said...

You know what I appreciate ? When we Christians get something wrong ? We have no shame in admitting it and moving on.

I hope that our Muslim friends will take note.

ubiquitouserendipity said...

Royal Son said...

You know what I appreciate ? When we Christians get something wrong ? We have no shame in admitting it and moving on.

I hope that our Muslim friends will take note.

ubiquitouserendipity says: nah, cats don't bark, and mohammedans don't think critically