Monday, March 9, 2009

Sara Azmeh Rasmussen Burns a Hijab

Sara Rasmussen is a former Muslim (she now considers herself a "cultural Muslim"). I'd say she just earned herself infinity cool points.

RASMUSSEN BURNS A HIJAB

27 comments:

Nakdimon said...

oy! I predict trouble.

Unknown said...

how sad....

why burn something which MARY the mother of JESUS pbuh wore proudly... i hope the christians on this blog will condem this behaviour...

oooops, i forgot, most of you have double standards....

David Wood said...

And today's award for making absolutely no sense goes to . . . Khayyam!

Muslims are slashing women's faces and throwing acid on them for refusing to wear a veil. This woman protests by burning what Muslim men are trying to force upon her. Khayyam concludes that this has something to do with Mary, and that we're being illogical for not recognizing it.

If I live to be a thousand, I will never comprehend what goes on in the head of some Muslims.

Radical Moderate said...

I love this woman, she's my new girfreind. Doesnt matter if she knows it or not :)
Seriously anyone else notice the water that was being pored down from the bridge. I wonder if it was muslim men trying to put out the fire which I hope spreads "like a cain field in a high wind" to all muslim woman.

Nora said...

Cue the incredibly out of context and misread comments on 1 Corinthians 11 by our muslim readers.

Sami Zaatari said...

the fat man, many Muslim women want to wear the hijab, this includes women in my familly, so what is this 'hope' you are talking about for ALL Muslim women? your 'hope' doesnt really count as 'hope' for them, i mean i know you would probaly prefer miniskirts and so on for our women, and say thats 'hope', but sorry buddy, thankfully most Muslim women dont want to cave into your fantasies.

Michelle Qureshi said...

I think the hijab, like most of Islam, is used by some Muslims in a moral manner and by other Muslims in an immoral manner. My sister and mother, for example, prefer to wear the hijab. Yes, they are more or less socially pressured to wear it, but I think they'd wear it even if they weren't.

Some Muslim women, on the other hand, have no choice but to wear it. That is certainly worthy of condemnation. There should be no compulsion in religion (hmm... sounds familiar...)

El-Cid said...

Sami said: "...so what is this 'hope' you are talking about for ALL Muslim women?"

The hope is, that they have ACTUAL freedom of conscience to choose to wear or not wear the hijab based on their own internal locus of control, rather than being chronically intimidated, beaten, verbally abused, sexually assaulted, etc if they fail to wear the scarf.

Ironically, Sami, it is western nations (whose culture you so despise) and countries influenced by the western values of egalitarianism and personal freedom where women can wear it or not wear it with freedom.

The problem with most Muslims (you included Sami) is that you can't seem to grasp the idea that it is thouroughly impossible to legislate morals upon the people through political means. This is why Sharia is bankrupt and only leads to violence. When the internal locus of control is absent, it must be externally forced upon the people (this is commonly known as "opression").

Taylor said...

Khayyam, Could you let me know where it says that Mary the mother of Jesus wore a hijab? I hear it often but am unaware of the source. Many thanks.

Unknown said...

Taylor,

It was common custom back then that Jewish women(Mary being Jewish) wore a veil. If u look at any pics or satutes of Mary today you will find that hear head is covered with a veil. Nuns today also cover their head.

David,

what a huge generalisation on your part.. your painting all muslims with the same brush, yes there are people (muslims and non-muslims) who would force women to do things that they dont like... there is good in bad in all peoples,...

where does it say in islam to throw acid on their face?? it doesnt... so those ignorants (acid throwers) are not following islamic teaching....

its like me saying "Priests molest little boys", while quiet clearly that is not the case... even tho some do, not ALL of them do that..

regards
Khayyam

Anonymous said...

If Mary condems such actions, I will eat my hat.

Fernando said...

Kayyam saide: «It was common custom back then that Jewish women(Mary being Jewish) wore a veil; Nuns today also cover their head»...

#1: a veil is not a hijab... theire use, purpose and motives are not eben connected;
#2: cyclistes, bee-keppers and cryket empires, nowadays also cover their heads...

so whate? where are you, Khayyam, goinge with this analogies?

a gunn at the hand of a cop is nott the same as a gunn at the hand of a terrorist...

one instrumental thing, to be understood, mustt be put in contextt:

whate is it;
whate is it's purpose;
whate is the (ideological/social/etc...) message it brings;
etc...

so: Mary's use of a veil (and here you habe to make a distinctionn -- that you did not -- precisely from the historical evidences of the situationes in witch a jewish woman used a veil 2000 years ago...), a nun's use and the use of an hijab bie muslims are not the same...

Fernando said...

Khayya said: «where does it say in islam to throw acid on their face?? it doesnt... so those ignorants (acid throwers) are not following islamic teaching... its like me saying "Priests molest little boys", while quiet clearly that is not the case... even tho some do, not ALL of them do that...»...

were those accid trouers acting due to the COMMON knowledge of womens role in the society according to TRUE ortodox muslim teachings?

were those priestes (bue the way... it looks like several muslimes terrorists used peadophile rings to communicate between them... and since, as itt was notticed, no one coulde entter those sites withoutte bringuing theyre share off new pictues and videos... well...) acting in agreement of any COMMON role of children ore priests according to TRUE christian teachings?

ounce again... I don't see the purpuse of your's annalogies Khayaam...

Michelle Qureshi said...

Hey Sami, since you're back (welcome back) I was wondering what you have to say about the shooting stars article. I'm sure you don't think that the Qur'an is scientifically flawed, so I'm just wondering how you respond against the points in that article.

Cheers,
-Nabeel

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

I would not necessarily condemn the use of a hijab, especially if a muslim women willingly choses to wear it. In some cultures covering up is a means to protect yourself and to protect your morality.

If the hijab is forced upon women in a Western society I definetily against it.

Khayyam and others seem to criticise our opinion here based upon the practice of Mary.

Mary probably would probably cover her head among strangers and on the street as was common in most cultures in the ancient times, and still is in many countries.

That Christians strictly would follow this rule or should accept is based upon ancient culture cannot be verified from scripture.

The only reference for women to cover their heads in Christianity is found in Paul's writings in 1 Corinthians 11, in which women are to cover their heads when they pray or prophecy. But here again there is not common agreement whether the covering refers to their hair or a veil of some sort. Many commentators also believe that this commmand was given due to cultural reasons, which then does not by force apply it on any Christian women in any given location and time. And then again the practice applied only by command when a women was publically praying or prophecying.

Funny here that the only Christian of the first century who comes closeth to islam in this aspect is Paul, the notorious enemy of muslims and truth according to muslims.

What probably comes closest the veil or hijab in islam are from the writings of Hippolytus:

Hippolytus in His Canons of the Alexandrian church in the third century writes:

'Canon Seventeenth. Of a free-born woman, and her duties. Of midwives, and of the separation of men from women. Of virgins, that they should cover their faces and their heads'.

But then again, these canons are not commands found in the New Testament, they are cultural and can therefore be rejected as authoritative, furthermore the Alexandrian Canons are categorized are spurious writings.

The bottom line is that forcing Muslim women to wear a hijab in the West is a break of the Western freedom. If muslim women should decide to wear a hijab she should be fully permitted to do so, which is not even comparative to the gothic style we often observe on our streets.

As to Christians can we condemn such a practice if forced upon a women?

Indeed we can, that Mary may have covered her head, does not contradict this response as it depicts a very different situation in which Mary gladly and naturally would have worn a veil; she was not forced to do so in a different society. And then again the practice was Jewish- cultural, while Christianity does not include such a rule but allows it if cultural.

Against Muslim women who choose to burn there hijab intend to protest against the suppression upon them in a free society.

Nora said...

Excellent post Hogan. I have a commentary at home that references the culture significance of veiling in Corinth, which I'll look up when I get home from work.

The thing that has consistantly bothered me about this topic is that comment made by some muslims that's Sami's comment references:

"i mean i know you would probaly prefer miniskirts and so on for our women, . . . "

This comment runs along the line of the argument that if a woman doesn't hijab the only choice a woman has is to dress in a very revealing manner, which is nonsense and offensive.

Fernando said...

OumAmir saide in response to some Sami Zawatri words:«which is nonsense and offensive»... totallie...

I grew up, although kite latte in my life, forming myself in a culture background that taught me to respect other human beings dispitte they're more or less dressed...

I don't get aroused like an irrational being full of un-human instinctes when I see a women in miniskirt and, consecuently, feeling that I habe sinned, I begin wishing her to be covered from head (to feet) not to be horny next time... that would onli perpetuate an immature personality full of tangled affections...

She's my sister, daughter of the same all-loving Father... no matter the way she's dressed...

nothing that's in the outside can make me sin... onlie iff I reciebe it and, in myself (not being capable of being free and responsable in front off it) turn it up inn a catapult for mie egotistics instincts...

I saide it ounce to Osama, I'll say it again: islam is an ideology thate is keen in keeping everyone in an retrograd mental age... it does not promotte a growth in someones structured personalitie... it destructures it... and with it all a bunch of humanity is dwealling into a new Cro-Magnon age...

Nora said...

Fernando,
There is still a definite biblical directive for women to dress modestly, but what seems to be lost on Muslims is the fact that modesty isn't defined by specific body parts, i.e. covering everything but the hands and face. Modesty is a very cultural thing.

I love a story that Marilyn Lazlo tells about the time she worked in Papua New Guinea among one of the tribes there. The story goes that she once asked the tribal leader why he wore a vine around his waist (most tribal people in PNG wear very little, if anything at all.) The tribal leaders response was along the lines of, "What? I'd be walking around naked without this vine!"

Stephanie said...

I wholeheartedly agree with Hogan. If the women want to wear it, by all means, go right ahead. But if it's inflicted upon them--to the point where they're ostracized, burned, killed, or what have you--then it's indeed wrong.

Michelle Qureshi said...

So comment moderation sucks - I marked this post from Fernando as "accept" but blogger rejected it. So I have to post it for Fernando.

Fernando says:
OumAmir... you're absolutellie right on thate...

but I think it has also (not onlie...) something to doo with the cultural aspects off the celebration of the liturgy: since the mostt important is the heart (1 Peter 3:3-4), and eberyone should feel like brothers in the assembly, the minumum comun factor (1 Timothy 2:9) -- the modesty (one need not to make this apeel to the poor...) -- should be aplaied in order to prevent others to feel excluded...

it is not an apeel to defende men/women from seing a beautifull creature from God...

as a matter of fact, being this the case, I read it as a reciprocal apeel: men also has to dress with modesty, with respect but not as a consequence of a mear extrinsic morality code...

but then, its much easier to prohibit eberything that to educate someone to be a grown adult... I'm glad Christianity wants us to grow up until the satue of Jesus...

the problem, many times, is notte in the more or lesse sexy way women/men dresses, but on the eye of the beolder... and if we don't teach for responsability the path many times is indeed prohibition...

Christianity is not, and I'm sure you'll agree with me, anti-cultural, but sometimes, to be according to God's will, we must be counter-cultural: not by imposing, but rather bie our loving example proposing and explaining the deeper meaning of an aspect or a value...

El-Cid said...

Fernando said: "the problem, many times, is notte in the more or lesse sexy way women/men dresses, but on the eye of the beolder... and if we don't teach for responsability the path many times is indeed prohibition... Christianity is not, and I'm sure you'll agree with me, anti-cultural, but sometimes, to be according to God's will, we must be counter-cultural: not by imposing, but rather bie our loving example proposing and explaining the deeper meaning of an aspect or a value..."

Good words brother. This goes right along with what I was getting at in my comment directed at Sami.

In the Biblical model given to us by Jesus, the morality originates with the individual (through "being transformed by the renewing of the mind [Romans]), and then flows outward to others ("rivers of living water").

In the Islamic model the morality comes from the top down, having the people subjugated under the Sharia. This is why Christianity can floorish and be fully practiced under ANY governmental system (or lack thereof) and in any culture; while Islam can only be fully practiced in Khilafa governed by Sharia.

Christian model: Empowerment of the individual and belief in their ability to transform society.

Islamic model: Empowerment of Caliph and belief in his ability to force total Sharia compliance on the individual to transform society.

Conclusion:

Christianity has faith in the people of God.

Islam has faith in the Sharia system of Muhammad.

Radical Moderate said...

Sammi, I have no problem if a Woman wants to wear a hijab, a burka, abya, die her hair green, puple or pink, put piercings in her nose, eybrows, ,lip or whatever. If thats what she wants to do then so be it. What I do have a problem with is a woman being forced to wear a hijab, burka, abyia, or forced to die her hair a certin color, or peirce some part of her body against her will.

Its a fact that in some muslim countries it is against the law for a woman not to cover her hair or her entire boddy. If she refused to do so she can be jailed, fined, or even whiped and beaten.

It is also a fact that in some muslim socieites. If a woman refused to cover even in the west where it is not agaisnt to the law to do such. THe woman can be beatin, or worse by her own family members.

That is what I'm against. And what I hope sprads is that defiance that they will not be forced to wear such things.

Anthony Rogers said...

Here is a little ditty for Sami to include in his calculation of the number of Muslim women who like wearing the hijab, which he said was "many" and even "most".

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/03/norway-muslim-girls-beaten-for-not.html

Of course I really have no idea whether a majority of Muslim women like wearing one or not. Then again, I don't know how many inmates on death row like their black and white striped jump suits either, but I put my money on the idea that if we let them out of their cages they would all probably choose to wear something else.

Douglas Kofi Adu-Boahen said...

Point of correction: Most likely Mary didn't wear a hijjab like most Muslim women. A headcovering, maybe - was the culture of the time, but nowhere in the OT were they COMMANDED to wear it as we find in modern Islam.

Fernando said...

Douglas Kofi Adu-Boahen said...

«Point of correction: Most likely Mary didn't wear a hijjab like most Muslim women»

Precisely my pointe... although youre english, Douglas, is mutche better than mine...

p.s.: nice Necktie brother... and I'm sure it is not impossed upon you: we, as Paul said, were freed to be free...

brick-en-brack said...

Fundamentalist ANYTHING is a bad idea. Sarah is a bright, intelligent and brave woman and I wish all the best for her

Unknown said...

I will always wear my hijab,by choice, and I live in the USA where it would actually be more socially accepted to not wear it. This is due to racist propaganda and religious malignancy on the part of others in my society. My concern is that so many people,including some who are close to me, don't understand why or even care to ask. If you wear a hat or a shirt that I don't like, I don't comment about it or stare at you in public as if you are an alien with 3 heads and I have never seen your kind before. It is offensive to me that you find it necessary to do this and subject me to it on a continuous basis. And I am aware of the response that this will likely receive here. If you want to wear it then go live somewhere else, etc... However save your time, I was born here, raised here, and I do love this country and the majority are open minded and willing to give anyone a chance to show they are a good person. But some of you, wow. It makes me sad to know that in a country where freedom of speech and expression and religion is not even acknowledged anymore. Please remember that no matter who you are or what your faith is or even if you have none, I respect your right to choose, all I ask is that you extend me the same respect and courtesy I freely and openly extend to you. You bleed red and so do I. We are all human beings. Never forget that we were all created equal, even those with whom you may not understand or agree with. Peace and blessings to you all. Salam.