Wednesday, February 4, 2009

Will Muslims Take Female Captives Even in Paradise?

In the following Hadith, we find:

(1) That Muslims will have seventy-two wives;
(2) That seventy of these wives will be taken from "the people of Hell," (i.e. from pagan, Jewish, and Christian husbands who have gone to hell);
(3) That Muslims in Paradise will have eternal erections.

Sunan Ibn Majah 4337--It was narrated from Abu Umamah that the Messenger of Allah said: "There is no one whom Allah will admit to Paradise but Allah will marry him to seventy-two wives, two from houris and seventy from his inheritance from the people of Hell, all of whom will have desirable front passages and he will have a male member that never becomes flaccid (i.e., soft and limp)." Hisham bin Khalid said: "From his inheritance from the people of Hell" means: "Men who enter Hell, and the people of Paradise will inherit their wives, just as the wife of Pharaoh will be inherited."

91 comments:

DAN12345 said...

2) That seventy of these wives will be taken from "the people of Hell," (i.e. from pagan, Jewish, and Christian husbands who have gone to hell);
So i would like a muslim to answer then a pagan jewish or christian wife is guaranteed heaven regardless?if her religion is true and islam false she goes to heaven.if islam is true and other religions false again heaven,but as a wife of a muslim?>?>?
Amazing that islam believes we will need wives in heaven,they cannot phantom us being spiritual beings in heaven without needs of another,they still think we will have wifes and virgins etc.
1 thing i would like to add,all us christians on this blog who know about islam are guaranteed our future is in our own hands.If we are correct(which we know we are) in our beliefs we will go to heaven.If we are wrong and we are told you was wrong Allah was God and muhammad is his messenger,we will say take us straight to hell.We will not go into paradise for allah or muhammad as islam teaches.Whereas every muslim if they are wrong will beg on judgement day to enter paradise and yet it might be granted to them.So in my heart(and im sure all christians on this blog) we are content with our future.

David Wood said...

I think the Muslims who comment here will simply reject the source, as usual.

Bryant said...

I'm sorry but this religion....I just...I don't know.

Nakdimon said...

You have GOT to be kidding me! It just gets worse and worse every post! Now there are "Eternal Erections" in Paradise too? Let there be NO Muslim runnin his mouth claiming that the Bible contains pornography!


Are there ANY depictions of Paradise, where Muhammad actually speaks of the glory of Allah.

Somewhere out there?

Timko said...

Seems to me that it's actually better for the woman to become something other than a muslim. Muslim females have to actually work to get into paradise while Non-muslims can sit back, relax, and wait until muslim men inherit them. First class ticket to paradise for women!

Anonymous said...

Eternal erections are beyond what I would have expected.

By the way, check this out:
http://www.criticsrant.com/bb/reading_level.aspx

Bfoali said...

Good Job David,
I have lost count as to how many sources you use that muslims (sunni) dont trust. Bravo David your amazing, I think I should make a blog and use the Gospel of Baranabas to help my case. What do you think David do you think im ready!

David Wood said...

Bfoali said: "Good Job David, I have lost count as to how many sources you use that muslims (sunni) dont trust. Bravo David your amazing, I think I should make a blog and use the Gospel of Baranabas to help my case. What do you think David do you think im ready!"

Wow! You don't trust Sunan Ibn Majah, one of the six most reliable collections of ahadith! I'll say again what I've said before--if you reject even your most reliable sources, what can we possibly know about Muhammad?

The amazing thing is that you compare Sunan Ibn Majah to the Gospel of Barnabas!!! So let me get this straight. Islam's most trusted collections of ahadith, composed by Islam's most trusted scholars of ahadith, is on the same level as a forgery that comes more than a thousand years after the events written by someone who wasn't a Christian???

Indeed, if this is the case, we can know absolutely nothing about Muhammad!

I hope everyone sees quite clearly how the Muslim mind works.

Nakdimon said...

Timko, that is an excellent observation! Muslimahs struggle to get their share of Paradise, while non-Muslim women are guarranteed to get into Paradise effortless.

But isn't it amazing what Allah has in store for his stooges:

The men will have all their hearts desire as reward for following regurgitated pagan practices: Eternal fornication, hard-ons and wine!

The woman will get an extreme makeover from Allah: Breasts fixed, nose jobs, botox, Versace Hijabs, Louis Vuitton sandals, etc. the whole nine yards!

Paradise of debauchery! Islam's Paradise is just a lure to serve Allah. Only accessable for the gullable.

karim said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
karim said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
karim said...

The isnad of the hadith in question is weak. In the English translation of Ibn majah it is said: "...According to al-Zawa'id, its isnad has some controversy. Al-'Ajali has declared Khalid b. Yazid b. Abi Malik reliable while Imam Ahmad, Ibn Mu'in, Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Ibn Jarud Sahi, 'Uqail etc., have declared Ahmad b. Salih al-Misri da'if [ weak ] .." . [ see; Sunan Ibn-I-Majah ,Kazi Publications, Lahore Pakistan, 1st edition 1995], p. 546

David Wood said...

Karim,

I'm sure that's relevant to Muslims who are looking for an excuse to throw out this hadith. However, I assume you're aware by now that non-Muslims generally have very little respect for the Muslim method of historical investigation.

DAN12345 said...

Yeah it funny how everytime a hadith comes uo one that they are really embarrased about suddenly its a WEAK hadith.The bible is corrupted supposidly as well but they like to use that alot for quotes to try and prove their case,but the very next time the bible is used against them,oh its corrupted.taqiyya in effect to the fullest....

El-Cid said...

David,

I remember reading another Hadith narration somewhere that even likens the "eternal erection" men will have in "Paradise" to a large palm tree. The implication seemed to be a size comparison...lol.

(I have no idea which collection of Ahadith it was in though, as I didn't save the reference.)

For some odd reason, Allah seemes to be very concerned with the genitals of his followers. He will restore the hymens of the women (making them eternal virgins), give the men some kind of viagra-treatment (and possibly even a palm tree sized implant!).

What an imagination Muhammad had :-P

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Well Karim y

our own muslim missionaries will push upon us every single piece of information declared or written by Christians in the 7 or 8 century that supports the muslim polemic.

And even though we point out that the particular point raised is late and often secterian or in minority, Shabir Ally or whoever presents islam will enforce the sentence by saying: 'but you have to admit that the point was raised', in other words the issue has value.

In the same way as muslims so emphatically quote every source of modern scholarship to prove their point, they assume that as long as a point has been raised it has value as long as it serves to Christianity render Christianity questionable.

However, when we raise similar points based not upon late sources or modern sources but upon the earliest islamic sources, now all of a sudden 'the point raised' means nothing, all we hear is: the source is weak.

Again we witness a double standard.

karim said...

I know David that polemics against islam largely reject islamic scholarship, and reject the muslim scholarly method of analyzing which hadith is true and which is false, thats why often the debates here are useless David [ with a few exceptions ] , cause no one can convince each other, for muslims if scholars have declared the hadith weak, the case is closed, especially if the weak hadith contradicts another more reliable hadith or a quranic verse [ as is the case here ].

Hogan Elijah Hagbard you cannot make a comparison between the system of hadith verification and the christian sources, since many scholars / theologians have declared both the new testament and the books of the bible outside the canon as unreliable, but muslim hadith scholars accept the sahih hadith as reliable and the da'if hadith as unreliable, in christianity this clear distinction is not made by a large group of theologians, the authenticity of the gospels etc. is such a controversy in christianity, so thats why Muslims also refer to books outside the canon of the New Testament, since the books of the new testament canon, have been declared unreliable also by many theologians.

Further i fail to see whats wrong with the reward for Muslims in paradise. Whats wrong with having as a blessing beautifull women as your wives in paradise, and have sexual intercourse with them. Allah made men to love women and made men weak for the pleasures of sexual intercourse, thats how we are made. Anyone who denies that he will not like to have sex with a amazing beautifull woman, is denying his human male nature. I mean whats immoral or weird about all this ? I view sex as something normal and beautifull [ and a blessing from God ] , since human beings enjoy such great pleasure from sexual intercourse in this life, then whats greater to hear that we can also have sexual intercourse in paradise.Further our own earhtly wive will be the most beautifull woman of paradise and more handsome then the houris [ maidens of paradise ] as the hadeeth in tabarani states, in addition Allah states in the Qur'an that he will remove from our hearts all ill feeling like jealousy , hate, pain, stress etc. Our earthly wives in jannah will be made superior to the houris [ maidens of paradise ] and more beautifull. Further Allah states that we will get all we wish. I rather have this form of paradise, then the christian version, in which the people of paradise sing Hallelujah the whole day and probably play on a harp.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Karim wrote:

Hogan Elijah Hagbard you cannot make a comparison between the system of hadith verification and the christian sources, since many scholars / theologians have declared both the new testament and the books of the bible outside the canon as unreliable, but muslim hadith scholars accept the sahih hadith as reliable and the da'if hadith as unreliable, in christianity this clear distinction is not made by a large group of theologians, the authenticity of the gospels etc. is such a controversy in christianity, so thats why Muslims also refer to books outside the canon of the New Testament, since the books of the new testament canon, have been declared unreliable also by many theologians.

Elijah replies:

I don't think you have done the studies I have (you may have but I don't think so). The scholars who consider the Gospels unreliable are those who adhere to the form-critical theory (whether they are wholly form-critics or not; this includes Ehrman too), I hope you know what you are on about here.

Form-criticism is theoretical, it is particularly based upon the idea that the supernatural is a myth. The method along with others seeks to eliminate Jesus miracles, prophethood (which you as a muslim believe in), virgin birth, etc.

If you take these scholars and their methods and conclusions as valuable, you have denied the prophethood of Jesus, his virgin birth and miracles.

The fact is you cannot pick and choose from critical scholarship what fits you, all the details hang together.

Also if you value these methods, can you answer me this question.

A surgical teacher, who in one day 1) converses with this colleges and friends, 2) does a lecture, 3) does a operation and 4) drives to and from work (all in one day); is he one person or several at various times and places, because all these genres of communication and action do not fit together?

Also it seems that you are far too bothered about scholarship. What are you gona do when a critical scholarship is established? Will condemn me for utilzing their information as you use atheist information to debunk the Christian faith.

As to early islamic information and the muslim scholars, did it occur to you that scholars may be reluctant to accept certain information as it harms islam?

Anyway I will let you and Wood debate the Hadith sources. That is not my area--yet.

Karim wrote:

Further i fail to see whats wrong with the reward for Muslims in paradise. Whats wrong with having as a blessing beautifull women as your wives in paradise, and have sexual intercourse with them. Allah made men to love women and made men weak for the pleasures of sexual intercourse, thats how we are made. Anyone who denies that he will not like to have sex with a amazing beautifull woman, is denying his human male nature. I mean whats immoral or weird about all this ? I view sex as something normal and beautifull [ and a blessing from God ] , since human beings enjoy such great pleasure from sexual intercourse in this life, then whats greater to hear that we can also have sexual intercourse in paradise.Further our own earhtly wive will be the most beautifull woman of paradise and more handsome then the houris [ maidens of paradise ] as the hadeeth in tabarani states, in addition Allah states in the Qur'an that he will remove from our hearts all ill feeling like jealousy , hate, pain, stress etc. Our earthly wives in jannah will be made superior to the houris [ maidens of paradise ] and more beautifull. Further Allah states that we will get all we wish. I rather have this form of paradise, then the christian version, in which the people of paradise sing Hallelujah the whole day and probably play on a harp.

Elijah replies:

What is wrong is that your earthly Muslim wife does not get the privilege of as her earthly muslim husband. Instead of receiving 70 handsome muscular males, she has to share her earthly husband with seventy hours, taken from hell as captives, as the particular hadith claims.

That seems a bit male oriented to me.

Also you seem to presume that the Christian paradise is a place of singing hymns and playing harp only. Can you provide evidences for your statements from the Bible.

Fernando said...

Karim:

1) the probleme is not with muslim's "scholarly method of analyzing which hadith is true and which is false"... is with the rejection, by muslims, of the scientific method of veryfieng the truth of ANY historicall documentt... Whie do muslims reject this method, when dealing with the muslim's sources, thate is universily apllied and then, in clear mental and logical contradiction, acceptt some false conclusions thate, by that same method, some non-respectefuul academics (it's not me who is saying thate they're non-relieble... it's theyre pears who say such things...) take from the study of Christian sources?

2)you saide "many scholars / theologians have declared both the new testament and the books of the bible outside the canon as unreliable»... whate do you mean by unreliable? That theya are false? Coulde you quote ANY scholar who saies thate the Bible books are false? When dealing with the Bible texts no one saies "well... this book is unreliable... I'll just skip it..."

3) you saide: «the authenticity of the gospels etc. is such a controversy in christianity»... really? could you, once again, quote ANY christian schoolar who has doubts about "the authenticity of the gospels"?

4) Then you asked: «Whats wrong with having as a blessing beautifull women as your wives in paradise»? Why do you muslims continue to treat women like sexual objects? You may cober all the bodie off them, but you're complettely obcessed with sex... And habin 72 wives is a male perspective: what do your mother think about that? Ask her... polittely, if you can...

5) then you saide: «Allah made men to love women and made men weak for the pleasures of sexual intercourse» And, once again, what do women thinke about that androcentric perspective? Do you believe that women were also created to feel that animalic lust towards men? As a Christian I believe that God created men, and women, to respect and love each othere... sex is as amayzing grace from God... it does nor reduce itself in the expression of the, pleaseful, genitalya activity... that's an inmature conception... sex is much more than that... but I suppose that muslims, due to theire horny culture with the harems of female captivities, and female sexual slaves, and temporary marrieges (which all denote a complet lack of respect to women...) can't grasp this mature reality...

6) Then you said: «Anyone who denies that he will not like to have sex with a amazing beautifull woman, is denying his human male nature»... really? Being married I say many times that I don't want to habe sex with a lot of beautifful women... I respect my wife... Am I denieng my male nature? Is someone who fullfills his human nature canalizing his sexual energy in benefeat of other denieng his male/female nature? Was your grandmother, or grandfather, when they were old, denyieng thyre nature when they have discovered that marital love does not reduce to genitalya activity?

7) you then said: «I view sex as something normal and beautifull [ and a blessing from God ]»... I agree with you!!! Normal, beautifull in the context of the MUTUAL respect between male and female... between male and female reciprocal valorization... not when a women with 72 males sexual slaves... why do you muslims whante your wifes' beautty onlie to yorselfs, and then want to have 72 women... Egotistic and xauvinistic and desrespectefull and inmature perspective of what is the human being...

8) you asked: «then whats greater to hear that we can also have sexual intercourse in paradise?... we Christians believe that our biggest pleasure will be sharing the personal life of God... to live with him in the closest of intimacies... since you muslims don't believe that one can share the life of God in paradise, the I imagine that havion a perpetual erected pennis all the time ready to perform sexual hornity his the best you can expect... to sad... livin in complete harmony with God will give us a plesure much more perfect, and complete, in all our human diomentions (not only genitalia sexuality), pleasure... that I'm absulutely convinced...

9) you then said: «in addition Allah states in the Qur'an that he will remove from our hearts all ill feeling like jealousy , hate, pain, stress»... how... I see... each women won't be hurt bie seeing her husband putting his eternal erected pennis in every vagina... she'll be, indeed, the perfect, in muslim male perception, sexual objet... I imagine, also, that you will be hable to have perpetual orgasms... skiizy flors, or humongous utherous... What is (once again: ask your mother... politellie... since you know so much about sex, surely you have spoken about this subjects with her...) the most joyfull experience than giving birth to a child? Will the births continue in your even? An eternal production of female ovulous... An eternal production of small muslims fethus... amayzing evan indeed!

10) Then you said: «Further Allah states that we will get all we wish»... How... Imagine an homosexual muslim wanting to performe his perpetual hornity in an non-homosexual muslim... to contraticted wills... which one will bee granted by Allah? I see... a muslimw in even can't what to have homosexual intercourses... But then: A mule muslim with his perpetual arousal wanting to rape a beautifuul girle with 9 years old, and she wantin to play with her dools... thes; which will will be realized by Allah?

11) Finalie... (uff... at last... I'm tired off laughing... you are so foonie): «I rather have this form of paradise, then the christian version, in which the people of paradise sing Hallelujah the whole day and probably play on a harp»... I undestand that... thats a typical inmature perspective... any psychologist can explain you that and even give you a cheap tretment... And who said to you we will be singing Hallelujah an playin harp... when Jesus sayd that in even we all will be like angels, he was not denieng sexuality, but expressing a more perfect form of sexuality where it will be performed in a spiritual (non material... not non real...) sence... do you know that the pleasure ine has when orgasming is a psychological experience? Imagine what will be our pleasure when, being plainfully spirituals, whith all our spiritual body under our will, and in total respect for the other who will be like (not a) a brother/sister (like angels are to each others...), we all be performing the most total ande most perfect giving pleasure action imaginable... just think about that!!!

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Oh yeah I almost forgot

Karim wrote:

since many scholars / theologians have declared both the new testament and the books of the bible outside the canon as unreliable, but muslim hadith scholars accept the sahih hadith as reliable and the da'if hadith as unreliable,

Elijah replies:

So let me get this straight, theologians (who as a majority are not Christians) and deny miracles as historical are to be considered trusthworthy. But at the same time we are to embrace the views of muslim scholars (not the muslim critics) when they address islamic information.

See, the example you used is this, let me use an analogy:

Muhammad Sven Kalisch is a scholar of Islam and he says that the Qur'an is untrustworthy and that Muhammad probably never existed (notice also, that he uses the very same methods these so called scholars of yours utilize), however, Christians scholars such as Etta Linnemann, FF Bruce, Alister McGrath and not to forget James White say we can trust the Bible.

Notice I did not refer to Bart Ehrman, Sanders or Burton L. Mack or Funk.

When you include Muhammad Sven Kalisch and his opinions, I will start taking you seriously.

Fernando said...

Just to be clear: in evan we all be like brothers ans sister since the only Father we will have wille bee God... There will not be incestuous relations... once again: we'll leave that to muslims... since Allah will allow anyone to have what he wants...

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Well I wonder how any wife would feel about sharing the bed with seventy other ladies for eternity?

Amazingly Karim thinks it will excuse the matter that she will be the most beautiful.

Its like saying: 'oh I had intercourse with seventy other ladies, but in beauty none of them is comparative to you my darling'.

I know I may be a bit inconsistent with the culture of Islam which practices polygamy anyway; but why should a female that makes it to heaven not be blessed with the same freedom and pleasure as a male, rather than sharing the same man (she sojourned on earth with) with seventy other women for the rest of eternity.

karim said...

let me reply to the below comment:

_________________________________

Elijah said:

What is wrong is that your earthly Muslim wife does not get the privilege of as her earthly muslim husband. Instead of receiving 70 handsome muscular males, she has to share her earthly husband with seventy hours, taken from hell as captives, as the particular hadith claims.

That seems a bit male oriented to me. Also you seem to presume that the Christian paradise is a place of singing hymns and playing harp only. Can you provide evidences for your statements from the Bible.

___________________________________


[b] response [/b]

The hadith about 70 women from the people of hell has a person in it;s chain which has been declared da'if by many scholars, so that hadith is weak. Further Allah states in the Holy Quran that men and women in paradise:


....shall get all that they may desire and all that they can ask for, as a first gift from God. His blessings would follow subsequently [ Fussilat 41:31 ]

Sounds quite fair to me buddy, if this promise is not fair, i would like to know what does in the eyes of christians. Both men and women shall get in paradise all they wish or ask for. The fact that the Quran only mentions one reward for men in paradise does not cancel out Allah's promise that both men and women shall get in paradise all they ask for or wish.

In paradise there will exist no jealousy or ill feelings. Husband and wife will never feel jelous to each other for whatever reason. Both will live their afterlife in full happines and joy, getting all they desire ! Jealousy will never exist in paradise. Allah states in the Holy Quran:

And We shall remove from their hearts any ill-feelings ;- beneath them will be rivers flowing;- and they shall say: Praise be to Allah, who hath guided us to this (felicity): never could we have found guidance, had it not been for the guidance of Allah: indeed it was the truth, that the messengers of our Lord brought unto us." And they shall hear the cry: Behold! the garden before you! Ye have been made its inheritors, for your deeds (of righteousness). [ Qur'an 7:43 ]


Biblical view paradise:


In christian heaven, you will be no longer married to your beloved wife on earth, nor will you have sex with her anymore, thats all over, see:


___________________________________


...Many people want to spend eternity with their spouse in heaven , especially if separated from them through death during their marriage. Although Christian doctrine states that we (Christians) will be together for all eternity, what does it say about our former marriages ? Will we be married to each other for eternity in heaven ?

......Contrary to the Mormon view of heaven,4 it doesn't seem that people in heaven will be either male or female. Jesus was asked a complicated question about heaven by the Sadducees (a religious sect that did not believe in the resurrection of the dead) that directly leads us to this conclusion.5 The Sadducees gave a scenario of a woman who married 7 men (sequentially, since they all died prematurely) in her lifetime. They asked whose wife she would be in heaven. Jesus answered:

"You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures, or the power of God. "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven .
(Matthew 22:29-30)

In other words, there will be no marriage or sexual differences among those in heaven, since reproduction is unnecessary This concept is supported by other biblical verses that indicate that males and females are spiritually equal. 6 The same concept applies to the races.7 I doubt that there will be racial differences in heaven.

The idea that we will no longer be married is disturbing to some people. Personally, I like to be married. From an earthly perspective, the dissolution of marriage in heaven doesn't sound like a good thing. However, in heaven, we will be "married" to Jesus, who will be our spiritual "husband." 8 If you are not currently a follower of Jesus Christ, you cannot understand what this will be like, and it will probably not have any appeal for you.

.............Jesus made it clear that angels do not marry and have children.5 He also indicated that we will be like the angels in that regard. 5 ........Although marriage is good and represents the most intimate relationship we can experience on earth, it should not be idolized. If you love your spouse more than God then he/she has become an idol. The most important commandment is to love God "with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind."13 We will be with our loved ones in heaven (for those who believe). However, we will not be married to our spouses, since that relationship will be superseded by our relationship with Jesus, since we will be "married" to Jesus.


source:

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/marriageinheaven.html#n04

___________________________________


[b] In Islam we will stay married with our wives [/b]


The Quran states:

Enter Paradise, you and your wives , in happiness [ Qur'an 43:70 ]


In islamic paradise we will stay married with our wives and be united with our children, see:

And those who believe and whose offspring follow them in Faith, - to them shall We join their offspring, and We shall not decrease the reward of their deeds in anything. [ Quran 52;21 ]


In tafsir ibn kathir it is written: "....Ath-Thawri reported that Ibn `Abbas said: "Verily, Allah elevates the ranks of the believers offspring to rank of their parents, even though the latter have not performed as well as the former, so that the eyes of the parents are comforted .." [ Tafsir Ibn Kathir ]


In another hadith we read:

_________________________________

Tabrânî 418/10

Umme Salamah narrated that she said to Rasulullah: “O Rasulullah, are the women of this world superior or the hurs ? “ He replied, “The women of this world will have superiority over the hurs just as the outer lining of a garment has superiority over the inner lining. “Umme Salamah then asked, “O Rasulullah, what is the reason for this ? “ He answered, “Because they performed salah, fasted, and worshipped. Allah will put light on their faces and silk on their bodies. [ The human women ] will be fair in complexion and will wear green clothing and yellow jewelry. Their incense-burners will be made of pearls and their combs will be of gold. They will say, “ We are the women who will stay forever and we will never die. We are the women who will always remain in comfort and we will never undergo difficulty. We are the women who will stay and we will never leave. Listen, we are happy women and will neer become sad. Glad tidings to those men for whom we are and who are for us

source:

Tabrânî 418/10
_________________________________


The above hadith also confirms that we men are a reward for our wives, so if the women as a reward for men in paradise is depicting women as sexual object [ as christians argue ] , then so are we men [ according to the logic of christian missionaries and apologetics ] depicted as sexual object in the hadith literature, since we [ after Allah has given us a more handsome bosdy etc. ] will be a reward for our wives.


In another source we read:

__________________________________

the wives of the believers will stay with their own husbands. Women who never married in this world will be given a choice to get married with any (unmarried) man they wish. If they do not like any of them, a special man will be created for them and Allah swt will join both of them in marriage.

source:

Fatawa Mahmudiya 5/298

___________________________________


Allamah Alusi also mentions in his tafsir that a person’s wife in this world will remain his wife in the hereafter [ see: Ruhul Mani 25/136 ].

Shayk Uthameen also states:

_________________________________

If a woman does not get married in this world, Allaah will grant her a spouse in whom she will find delight in Paradise. The joys of Paradise are not limited only to males – they are for males and females alike, and part of that joy is marriage.

source:

Majmoo’ Fataawaa Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 2/53

__________________________________


And again i repeat, Allah states in the Holy Quran that both men and women in paradise:

Further Allah states in the Holy Quran that men and women in paradise:


....shall get all that they may desire and all that they can ask for, as a first gift from God. His blessings would follow subsequently [ Fussilat 41:31 ]

I still prefer islamic paradise, then the christian paradise, in which one will not be married to one's wife anymore, and will not have sexual relationships anymore. As a Muslim i look forward to be married with my wife in jannah inscha'allah, as a christian you need to look forward to your spiritual marriage with jesus. In an islamic paradise the believers will get whatever they wish.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

well Karim

Seems like you have a very earthly view of paradise.

Well considering that the black stone in Mecca originated from there, only reveals that the islamic heaven is quite earthly,and depends upon energy, particles and atoms.

Of course then you wanna have women, the problem is, if heaven in so earthly, how does it apply to something that is eternal. After 600 billion years, will your earthly wife and your 70 hoors be enough to satisfy you. Do you see what I mean eternity and earthly pleasure are no easily combined.

That is the problem with the islamic description of heaven is earthly focused and male oriented, it seems much more of a human origin than that of God.

As Christians we believe that there is no marriage in heaven, but to us heaven is on a much higher level, which is why human description is redundant. Are we gona live in houses, sit on chairs, drink vine, enjoy our wive or wives, or is heaven a place that transcends all such aspects of a human society?

You referred to the church being the bride and Christ being the bridgroom, and you asked if it appeals. Firstly understand that this description is metaphorical. And yes in the metaphor we are accepted much like a bride to a bridgroom into the bliss, and that certainly appeals.

You keep saying based on the verses you posted that women will like men get whatever she desires. I have not rejected that the passages includes women.

But the problem is, does a women really want to live in heaven for ever with her earthly husband as one of his 71 wives? I am sure that my wife would love to live with me forever, but would she like to share me with 70 other? I don't think so!

This only confirms how earthly the Qur'an is. Women in the arabic world in Muhammad's time, were subjected, they shared their husband with his other wives (if he could afford so), his female slaves, with female captives, with wives of muta marriage, and she could do not but put up with--and the worst thing of all, she probably did not know better anyway, that was her state or position, in which she was happy. She was not allowed to follow her desire as were the men, otherwise a man's wife would be permitted to rape the male slaves.

But what happens when womem suddenly realise that they are capable to desire as much like the male, which women certainly are capable off, and which they do when they are free from bondage.

Are you still gona tell a Muslim arabic female living in UK or USA that she can have all she wants in paradise, but she cannot engage in sex with multiple male lovers, much like her heavenly husband will engage in sex with his 70 female lovers, instead she will have to share her husband with 70 other females. This debunks your entire statement.What makes you think that women do not desire multiple lovers? They are as much likely to do so as men (even though I do not approve of such behavior for men or women).

This is why I say that the Qur'an is an earthly book, it is male-oriented and it simply assumes that women have no more desires than to take care of the house, submit to her husband and please him sexually.

The problem is that women are much like men, their sexual ability actually far exceeds that of men, and if female desire is to be fullfilled fully in the heavenly bliss in an earthly fashion, the heaven you describe to women is not heaven at all to a women (in comparison to a man) unless you compare it to hell. But then heaven is pretty much a male world, right.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

also you wrote that women shall get all they ask for in heaven.

Now if a Western muslim girl who has experienced freedom, but nevertheless remained pure, enters paradise and asks for even five real masculine males, will Allah grant her wish?

Remember you said that a women in paradise will get all she desires.

Are you gona tell me that she want think such thoughts.

Well the problem is males in paradise are allowed to think so thoughts.

Or are you telling me that women in paradise are gona be brain washed not to think so thoughts.

Well then two problems emerge:

1) why is the male not brainwashed

2) is heaven for muslim women a brainwashed state

Do you still wanna tell me that the islamic paradise is not male oriented?

DAN12345 said...

Karim wrote "Anyone who denies that he will not like to have sex with a amazing beautifull woman, is denying his human male nature"
EXACTLY thank you karim these are HUMAN feelings!HUMAN MALE FEELINGS MALES NATURE!We wont be thinking like this if we are in heaven will we?Do you think we will want women in heaven?remember we wont be humans in heaven we wont think like a human we wont feel pain have sexual needs etc.We will be spirits.This is one of the most absurd things about islam.THIS SHOWS IT IS WRITTEN BY A MAN FOR MAN! all these promises of woman and virgin,who else but a horny man would write such things!especially these are not even earthly pleasures you will gain you will gain them when you get to heaven as a martyr!Why is it when a muslim blows himself up he always talks about it will be better in heaven than here with women virgins etc,sounds like a brothel,so these poor lost souls got nothing to live for so they decide to blow themselves up in search of these promises they have been given.Quran written by man for man,,,again if i die and im given 72 virgins i will say take me to hell this isnt heaven.I wonder if muslims think the angel gabriel is getting it on 24/7 in heaven with virgins etc.What kind of sick thoughts have they brought into heaven!!!!

DAN12345 said...

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'
We can see where islam got its liking from virgins from......

DAN12345 said...

Sunan Abu Dawud
Book 11, Number 2126:
Narrated Basrah:
A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet). The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her (according to the version of al-Hasan). The version of Ibn AbusSari has: You people, flog her, or said: inflict hard punishment on him.
Why is the child being punished made into a slave and being told to inflict punishment on him.Is it the child fault?

DAN12345 said...

Sahih Muslim
Book 010, Number 3888:
Jabir b. 'Abdullah (Allah be pleased with them) reported: I went on an expedition with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He overtook me and I was on a water-carrying camel who had grown tired and did not walk (trot). He (the Holy Prophet) said to me: What is the matter with your camel? I said: It is sick. He (the Holy Prophet) stepped behind and drove it and prayed for it, and then it always moved ahead of other camels. He (then) said: How do you find your camel? I said: It is, by the grace of your prayer, all right. He said: Would you sell this (camel) to me? I felt shy (to say him," No" ) as we had no other camel for carrying water, but (later on) I said: Yes, and to I sold it to him on the condition that (I would be permitted) to ride it until I reached Madina. I said to him: Allah's Messenger, I am newly married, so I asked his permission (to go ahead of the caravan). He permitted me, and I reached Medina well in advance of other people, until I reached my destination. There my maternal uncle met me and asked me about the camel, and I told him what I had done with regard to it. He reproved me in this connection. He (Jabir) said: When I asked his permission (to go ahead of the caravan) Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) inquired of me whether I had married a virgin or a non-virgin. I said to him: I have married a non-virgin. He said: Why did you not marry a virgin who would have played with you and you would have played with her? I said to him: Allah's Messenger, my father died (or he fell as a martyr), and I have small sisters to (look after), so I did not like the idea that I should marry a woman who is like them and thus be not able to teach them manners and look after them properly. So I have married a non-virgin so that she should be able to look after them and teach them manners, When Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to Medina, I went to him in the morning with the camel. He paid me its price and returned that (the camel) to me.
More on muhammads love of virgins

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Dan posted:

Sunan Abu Dawud
Book 11, Number 2126:
Narrated Basrah:
A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet). The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her (according to the version of al-Hasan). The version of Ibn AbusSari has: You people, flog her, or said: inflict hard punishment on him.
Why is the child being punished made into a slave and being told to inflict punishment on him.Is it the child fault?

Elijah adds:

I see two problems here:

1) Perhaps the women had been raped, what made Muhammad rush into such a hasty conclusion, and punish her and the child.

2) If the matter is adultary or pre-marrital sex, does not contradict what Karim says that women in heaven will be satisfied with one earthly husband alonside his 70 hoors.

It seems here that women are capable of having desire (much like a male, and we find them in the Qur'an and the Hadiths raping slaves and female captives engaging in muta marriage), and I wonder if a women in heaven if she desires 5 muscular males will get her wish granted.

I was hoping Karim could answer that?

DAN12345 said...

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 86, Number 101:
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said, "It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage). I said, "A virgin feels shy." The Prophet; said, "Her silence means her consent." Some people said, "If a man falls in love with an orphan slave girl or a virgin and she refuses (him) and then he makes a trick by bringing two false witnesses to testify that he has married her, and then she attains the age of puberty and agrees to marry him and the judge accepts the false witness and the husband knows that the witnesses were false ones, he may consummate his marriage."
????????amazing muhammad is throwing other peoples opinions how to decieve the virgin into marriage,surley he should condemn this

karim said...

Funny to see how these desperate people jump from the topic to topic. In my previous post i refuted the lie of Hogan Elijah Hagbard that the Quran is unfair towards women in regards to the rewards believers get in the afterlife. I demonstrated that both men and women will get all they wish for in paradise [ see Qur'an - 41:31 ] . Now let's take a look at your new comments:

__________________________________

Hogan Elijah Hagbard wrote

But the problem is, does a women really want to live in heaven for ever with her earthly husband as one of his 71 wives? I am sure that my wife would love to live with me forever, but would she like to share me with 70 other? I don't think so!

__________________________________

response

You interpretate the situation in islamic paradise with the idea that wives will be jealous, i demonstrated to you already earlier that will not happen, since Allah will remove from both men and women ill feelings from the heart like jealousy, see:


And We shall remove from their hearts any ill-feelings ;- beneath them will be rivers flowing;- and they shall say: Praise be to Allah, who hath guided us to this (felicity): never could we have found guidance, had it not been for the guidance of Allah: indeed it was the truth, that the messengers of our Lord brought unto us." And they shall hear the cry: Behold! the garden before you! Ye have been made its inheritors, for your deeds (of righteousness). [ Qur'an 7:43 ]

So no women or man would feel jealous when he / she sees his / her partner with another partner in jannah [ which Allah created for them and gave them as partners, besides their earthly spouse in paradise ] . You christians just keep on rejecting this quranic verse, and interpretate islamic paradise without keeping in mind the fact that jealousy or other ill feelings will not exist there.


__________________________________

Hogan Elijah Hagbard wrote

That is the problem with the islamic description of heaven is earthly focused and male oriented, it seems much more of a human origin than that of God.

As Christians we believe that there is no marriage in heaven, but to us heaven is on a much higher level, which is why human description is redundant. Are we gona live in houses, sit on chairs, drink vine, enjoy our wive or wives, or is heaven a place that transcends all such aspects of a human society?


___________________________________

response

The fact that islam states that will have sexual relationships with our spouses in paradise, that does not mean that life and relationships in paradise will be exactly the same as life on earth , on the contrary they will be better, and Allah states:


I have prepared for my righteous servants what no eye has ever seen and no ear has ever heard, nor has it occurred in the human heart. Thus recite if you wish, "And no soul knows of what joy has been kept hidden for them." [ Quran 32:17 ].


___________________________________

Hogan Elijah Hagbard wrote

You referred to the church being the bride and Christ being the bridgroom, and you asked if it appeals. Firstly understand that this description is metaphorical. And yes in the metaphor we are accepted much like a bride to a bridgroom into the bliss, and that certainly appeals.

__________________________________

response

Better read my posts , i never asked if it appeals, i was quoting a christian author all the time in regards to the christian view on heaven [ i.e. life after death ] .

let's take a look at the next most desperate comment:

___________________________________

Hogan Elijah Hagbard wrote

Are you still gona tell a Muslim arabic female living in UK or USA that she can have all she wants in paradise, but she cannot engage in sex with multiple male lovers, much like her heavenly husband will engage in sex with his 70 female lovers, instead she will have to share her husband with 70 other females. This debunks your entire statement.What makes you think that women do not desire multiple lovers? They are as much likely to do so as men (even though I do not approve of such behavior for men or women).

This is why I say that the Qur'an is an earthly book, it is male-oriented and it simply assumes that women have no more desires than to take care of the house, submit to her husband and please him sexually.

The problem is that women are much like men, their sexual ability actually far exceeds that of men, and if female desire is to be fullfilled fully in the heavenly bliss in an earthly fashion, the heaven you describe to women is not heaven at all to a women (in comparison to a man) unless you compare it to hell. But then heaven is pretty much a male world, right.


___________________________________

response

I admire your rich fantasy, where did i say in my previous posts that women will never desire heavenly men in paradise ? I never said such a thing, better wash your face again and wake up next time before you post non-sense.

Further yes i would still say to a Arabic Girl living in the us, usa or china, chili, brazil, sweden, the south pole ot whatever place she lives that she can have al she wishes for in paradise. Why ? Because the Quran says so:


They will have with their Lord whatever they desire ; that is the reward of those who good. [ Qur'an 39:34 ].

..they shall get all that they may desire and all that they can ask for , as a first gift from God. His blessings would follow subsequently [ Qur'an 41:31 ] .

SO where does the Quran say buddy the she cannot wish male lovers, and cannot have sex with them ? The Qur'an clearly states that she can wish for whatever she wishes, so if she wants Allah to create for heavenly male lover and have sexual intercourse with them, Allah can give it to her, if she wishes, the Quran states she will get everything she wishes. if women really want such a thing, could be. I do not know to be honest, and who cares, in paradise we men won;'t be jealous to our women if they ask for such a thing, since ALlah will remove any ill-feelings from our heart. Further for those men and women who only want each other and no one else, Allah can fulfill their wish too. Again the clearly clearly states that men and women shall get everything they wish for, this fact refutes your redicilous comment that heaven in islam is a male world and hell for women, haha lol since when is a place in which a woman can get everything she wishes a hell ? SInce when is a place where no ill-feelings will be inside the heart of a woman a hell? Your comment buddy are so weak and desperate, one quranic verse [ see 41:31 ] already takes down your whole argument.


The same error and a similar comment you also made here:

_________________________________

Hogan Elijah Hagbard wrote

also you wrote that women shall get all they ask for in heaven.
Now if a Western muslim girl who has experienced freedom, but nevertheless remained pure, enters paradise and asks for even five real masculine males, will Allah grant her wish?

Remember you said that a women in paradise will get all she desires.

Are you gona tell me that she wont think such thoughts. Well the problem is males in paradise are allowed to think so thoughts.

Or are you telling me that women in paradise are gona be brain washed not to think so thoughts.

Well then two problems emerge:

1) why is the male not brainwashed

2) is heaven for muslim women a brainwashed state

Do you still wanna tell me that the islamic paradise is not male oriented?

___________________________________


response

Your fantasy again is amazing. Never did i say that a woman will never think about a reward of handsome heavenly males in paradise. I never said anything about this. But in reply to your question, "yes, a girl can wish such a thing in paradise, and Allah will fulfill her wish" , the Qur'an states:


They will have with their Lord whatever they desire ; that is the reward of those who good. [ Qur'an 39:34 ].

..they shall get all that they may desire and all that they can ask for , as a first gift from God. His blessings would follow subsequently [ Qur'an 41:31 ] .

So here read again, a woman can wish anything she desires . Anything simply means "anything" , i.e. also five real masculine [ heavenly ] males. And as i demonstrated earlier, no men or woman will be jealous to his spouse for whatever reason, since Allah removes such ill-feelings from the hearts of people in paradise, see:


And We shall remove from their hearts any ill-feelings ;- beneath them will be rivers flowing;- and they shall say: Praise be to Allah, who hath guided us to this (felicity): never could we have found guidance, had it not been for the guidance of Allah: indeed it was the truth, that the messengers of our Lord brought unto us." And they shall hear the cry: Behold! the garden before you! Ye have been made its inheritors, for your deeds (of righteousness). [ Qur'an 7:43 ]


Another comedian states:

__________________________________

Fernando wrote

Then you said: «Further Allah states that we will get all we wish»... How... Imagine an homosexual muslim wanting to performe his perpetual hornity in an non-homosexual muslim... to contraticted wills... which one will bee granted by Allah?

___________________________________

response

Homosexuals'won't enter paradise.Since only hetero people will enter paradise, the wish of having sex with a male will not come up.


The funny dude comes now with a amazing explenation of christian paradise, see:

___________________________________

Fernando wrote

And who said to you we will be singing Hallelujah an playin harp... when Jesus sayd that in even we all will be like angels, he was not denieng sexuality, but expressing a more perfect form of sexuality where it will be performed in a spiritual (non material... not non real...) sence ... do you know that the pleasure ine has when orgasming is a psychological experience? Imagine what will be our pleasure when, being plainfully spirituals, whith all our spiritual body under our will, and in total respect for the other who will be like (not a) a brother/sister (like angels are to each others...), we all be performing the most total ande most perfect giving pleasure action imaginable... just think about that!!!

___________________________________


response

wow, thats the most funny and redicilous comment a christian has ever made in his description of biblical paradise. Your interpretation however is impossible buddy and wrong, the reason why jesus [ according to your bible ] states that people in paradise will be like angels, was to show the jews that people after the resurrection won't be married anymore, so it;s impossible for you after the resurrection to have sexual intercourse with your [ ex ] wife, neither physical, spiritual or in whatever mysterious way, cause when you say "this is permissible" , it would mean that biblical heaven is full of adultery, since people who are not married anymore with each other have sex now in mysterious ways according to your funny and laughable explenation. The fact is buddy, in your christian heaven you won't be married to your wife anymore, not will you have any sexual contact in whatever way with her anymore. This is how the Bible respects your marriage, it will be ended after the resurrection, wow what a great thought [ sarcastic mode ] !

I won't comment on your silly comments here anyore, i got better things to do. As we say in islam : ".. you cannot make the deaf hear..."

DAN12345 said...

Karim you shouldnt be posting on here because you havent a clue about what you are writing.No refution no points no evidence.
Karim wrote "As we say in islam : ".. you cannot make the deaf hear...""
In islam you cannot make the deaf hear?Surley by using Allah's word(quran to muslims)you can make the deaf hear the blind see?or can you not?
Isaiah 29:18
In that day the deaf will hear the words of the scroll, and out of gloom and darkness the eyes of the blind will see.
Matthew 11:5
The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.
Isaiah 43:8
Lead out those who have eyes but are blind, who have ears but are deaf.
Luke 4:18
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
John 9:41
Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
God will make the blind see the deaf hear,we know you are blind n deaf but we try to open your eyes and ears.So maybe in islam you cannot make the deaf hear.But Jesus can do anything,same as he had the power to lay down his life he had the power to take it again,so you are powerless with your words in islam the deaf will never hear.

Fernando said...

The amayzing dude sayd: «The funny dude comes now with a amazing explenation of christian paradise»... really?... Please read... it's you who are totally obcessed with what you callede "sexual intercourse"... I never sayde that... please read carefuly what I said... I know it might be difficult to someone submerged in the hornity of the muslim cultur, but that's what the Bible explains: we will be hable to perform our sexuality in it's perfect expression... not in that specific, and transitual, expression that is the "sexual intercourse"... but then... what do you know aboutt that? As we say in our dialect. «baytteh batterh humaha ppuhnhetta»

Fernando said...

By the way... is this (godandscience.org) your most reliablke source fore chsritian theology?... shamefull...

Fernando said...

Karim: in other words... even fore someone who can't imaginne the shear pleasure in habing the eternal life with God himself muslim's understanding of even his so infantile... no wonder why muslim culture (???) is so backwards...

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Karim wrote:

Funny to see how these desperate people jump from the topic to topic. In my previous post i refuted the lie of Hogan Elijah Hagbard that the Quran is unfair towards women in regards to the rewards believers get in the afterlife. I demonstrated that both men and women will get all they wish for in paradise [ see Qur'an - 41:31 ] . Now let's take a look at your new comments:

Elijah replies:

No you have refuted absolotly nothing, and this new post of yours only makes your argument look more silly.

Karim wrote:

You interpretate the situation in islamic paradise with the idea that wives will be jealous, i demonstrated to you already earlier that will not happen, since Allah will remove from both men and women ill feelings from the heart like jealousy, see:


And We shall remove from their hearts any ill-feelings ;- beneath them will be rivers flowing;- and they shall say: Praise be to Allah, who hath guided us to this (felicity): never could we have found guidance, had it not been for the guidance of Allah: indeed it was the truth, that the messengers of our Lord brought unto us." And they shall hear the cry: Behold! the garden before you! Ye have been made its inheritors, for your deeds (of righteousness). [ Qur'an 7:43 ]

So no women or man would feel jealous when he / she sees his / her partner with another partner in jannah [ which Allah created for them and gave them as partners, besides their earthly spouse in paradise ] . You christians just keep on rejecting this quranic verse, and interpretate islamic paradise without keeping in mind the fact that jealousy or other ill feelings will not exist there.

Elijah replies:

So let me get this straight. Heaven is a place where we can live according to our own conduct, women, or more correctly the wife of a muslim in heaven can sleep with a million males if she wishes, and the man can engage in sex with all the women he wishes, and Allah has simply removed jelousy from their heart.

Now notice the problems here:

You have stated in your post that muslim women in heaven can have sex with as many males as they desire in paradise.

And that does not bother you at all. Is that not wrong if she is your wife, oh no of course there is no jeaolousy so there is no right or wrong in the islamic paradise it is just one big sexual orgie.

Furthermore, if this is the case, why not simply separate the earthly male from his female, I mean if heaven is a sex orgie with millions or billions of people because heaven will last for ever and after a billion of years you wanna try something new, what point is there to keep this couple in heaven together?

Also you cause this jealousy ill-will, is it now a ill-will if I am jealous of my wife engaging in open sex with a multiple number of lovers and vice versa, are you sure this is heaven we are talking about or just another Sodoma.

Karim said:

I admire your rich fantasy, where did i say in my previous posts that women will never desire heavenly men in paradise ? I never said such a thing, better wash your face again and wake up next time before you post non-sense.


Karim wrote:

And We shall remove from their hearts any ill-feelings ;- beneath them will be rivers flowing;- and they shall say: Praise be to Allah, who hath guided us to this (felicity): never could we have found guidance, had it not been for the guidance of Allah: indeed it was the truth, that the messengers of our Lord brought unto us." And they shall hear the cry: Behold! the garden before you! Ye have been made its inheritors, for your deeds (of righteousness). [ Qur'an 7:43 ]

So no women or man would feel jealous when he / she sees his / her partner with another partner in jannah [ which Allah created for them and gave them as partners, besides their earthly spouse in paradise ]

Elijah replies:

So lets conclude this

1. there is marriage and sex in the islamic heaven
2. both spouses can engage in sex with each other and virtually anyone and as many as they desire (even several at the same time).
3. Allah has removed ill-will from their heart so they will not be jealous when they sleep around.

I have to admit here, that the islamic mindset is no more different from the typical world we live in, sex is everything.

And the islamic heaven want even contain moral, in fact Allah has removed it from their mind and senses.

Again, to me this sounds too earthly, mind also that the followers of Muhammad already practised sex with a multiple number of wives, slaves, female captives, in mutta marriages; it seems they were simply enfatuated with sex and somehow envisage that this will continue without limits in the hereafter. To me this whole thing (which you are portraying, I am not saying that all Muslims agree with you) sounds more beastlike and lacks any sense of moral or order (sorry if I offend you, that is based upon what you are portraying to me here; and you muslims accuse the Bible of pornography, this seems to be the very nature of Allah, if you are correct).

I wonder if other muslims on this blog also agree that their heavenly wife, whom they spent their earthly life with, will engage in multiple sexual relationship in heaven? I mean you will if you are a male?

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

I guess what I have pointed out here, is that such a state makes marriage redundant, I simply fail to see the point of marriage in the Muslim heaven, according to you Karim it is an orgie. I would say that your proposition is more logical if marriage was totally excluded. But I guess that it was too much of a mouthfull to those who made up this material to provide such a freedom for their spouse; but it would prove more logical.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

If we look at how things work down here on earth. We see that lust and desire bring male and female together, often the high peek of such lust is mutual or individual orgasm, that results human production.

It seems that all these factors which are God given and are exciting and pleasurable have the purpose of keeping the human society running. Humanity enjoys these necessities and the number of people grows. I just wonder why heaven is run by such necessities to its full detail without the ultimate goal of human production.

And I have not said that the goal of sex is only production, yet we cannot avoid the factor that every slight detail fits together and intially produces a new human, why do these necessity factors play such an important role in the islamic bliss? Unless there is further production in the islamic heaven but is there a passage that confirms so?

Unknown said...

Here's my defense of the Islamic concept Paradise which I originally wrote in response to Nakdimoron's ridiculous arguments.

[I]If we are to be admitted to Paradise as physical beings, it follows that the pleasure awaiting us be physical as well. In fact, pleasure is purely a sensory phenomenon. Without our senses, we can feel no pleasure. So if Paradise is about pleasure, then believers must partake in it as physical entities so that they can experience bliss. After all, what purpose would it serve for them to be in Paradise if they can't feel its glory?

Moreover, since Paradise is all about pleasure, and sex is just one of the components thereof, it is not logically inconsistent for sex to exist in Paradise, especially when the physicality of its inmates is considered. [/I]

Unknown said...

If spiritual pleasure is superior to physical pleasure, then it also follows that spiritual pain is greater than physical pain.

However, the pain which will be inflicted on disbelievers in Hell is physical. Since Hell is a place of ultimate suffering, and the pain inflicted therein takes a physical form, then physical pain is superior.

If physical pain is superior, it follows that physical pleasure exceeds spiritual pleasure in terms of experience.

DAN12345 said...

IBN: it follows that the pleasure awaiting us be physical as well. In fact, pleasure is purely a sensory phenomenon. Without our senses, we can feel no pleasure. So if Paradise is about pleasure, then believers must partake in it as physical entities so that they can experience bliss.
The lengths people will go to justify islam is amazing.1 day you will look in the mirror and go deep in your soul and realise the truth.Stop defending your whorehouse paradise.So why did the ottomans need to go heaven everything that is promised to them in islam they had it already on earth,they had virgins in their hamams by the thousands,they had wine in abundance,they had power wealth the lot,so why do they need to follow islam if already they had the same paradise on earth.
Imagine a god who gives us things in paradise that seem wrong while here on earth?So for you not taking 72 virgins now(hold yourself wait a little while)you will get them in heaven.
It is a joke,its like god saying we can steal kill etc for fun aswell in heaven imagine that.
You cannot PHANTOM anything other than human thoughts of paradise thats why women are involved.Again i will say WRITTEN BY MAN FOR MAN!

David Wood said...

I can't believe he just said that, according to Islam, physical pleasure is superior to spiritual pleasure--i.e. that the pleasure of sex is superior to the pleasure of knowing God.

I hope everyone is paying attention. We're getting some good stuff from our Muslim friends.

DAN12345 said...

I bet Nero would have loved to know islam,Your islamic paradise is like bait for dumb fish they bite on it straight away too tempting but the fish will find out too late,,,just as you will.

DAN12345 said...

Ibn a real christian doesnt need rewards to do good,we do good because of what Jesus done for us!That unconditional love he gave us,makes us give our lives to god,if heaven was a empty space where i will sit forever alone,no rewards,i will still do my best give my all to go there by following Jesus's commands,as by his love i dont need rewards to give my love back to him.

Unknown said...

Notice that neither Dan nor Wood-a so called philosopher-has offered a genuine response to my argument.

Dan:Imagine a god who gives us things in paradise that seem wrong while here on earth?

And what would those be?

DAN12345 said...

Ibn what do you mean what rewards would these be?are you joking?

Unknown said...

I'd like to know what believing Muslims will experience in Paradise which has been forbidden on earth?

David Wood said...

Ibn said: "I'd like to know what believing Muslims will experience in Paradise which has been forbidden on earth?"

Sex with 72 wives is allowed on earth?

Ibn said: "Notice that neither Dan nor Wood-a so called philosopher-has offered a genuine response to my argument."

Your argument was so awful, I didn't think it worthy of a response. You reason as follows:

(1) Hell will be a place of ultimate suffering.
(2) The suffering of Hell is physical.
(3) Hence, physical suffering is superior to spiritual suffering.
(4) Thus, physical pleasure is superior to spiritual pleasure.
(5) Heaven is a place of ultimate pleasure.
(6) Therefore, heaven will be a place of physical pleasure.

The argument falls apart by the time we get to premise (2). For your argument to work, you would have to say that the only pain in hell is physical, or that the physical pain is far worse than any other sort of pain. But who's going to grant this? Christians believe that the worst aspect of Hell is being completely separated from God. This is spiritual pain. Hence, a Christian is bound to reject your argument. Of course, Muslims are generally hedonists who tend to evaluate everything in terms of physical pain/pleasure, so I'm sure many Muslims will be satisfied with your defense of an eternity if orgies.

Nevertheless, I'm going to respond to your argument more carefully in a post, since you and Karim have given us too many golden nuggets of Islamic beliefs to ignore.

DAN12345 said...

Is having sex with 72 virgins seem correct on earth to you?
Is drinking wine seem correct to you on earth?
With the wine you will say"oh its special wine doesnt make you drunk"
we have heard it all before,its like all muslims are ex-alcholics being promised a great drink if they just dont drink for a while.Hold on for a bit some real wine is coming for you in paradise.
And you will do all this infront of your wife and god in heaven drinking sex etc?As nothing is hidden in heaven.
compare your thoughts to what jesus said "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." (Matthew 22:30)
Yeah it seems like you will be acting like a real angel in heaven!
You will have silk attire, ad-Dahr 76:12.Even though it is against what your prophet taught
Narrated Abdur Rahman bin Abi Laila: ... I heard the Prophet saying, "Do not wear silk, and do not drink in silver or golden vessels, and do not eat in plates of such metals, for such things are for the disbelievers in this worldly life and for us in the Hereafter." [Bukhari, vol.7, no.337]
Also drink the wine from the silver goblets when your in heaven and wear silver as your having sex with a virgin.Wow Nero would be impressed

DAN12345 said...

So why did a christian need to show you what is banned on earth for you?why did u need to ask this question?Its time for the Taqiyya master to stop his games and get a grip on reality

Unknown said...

Wood:I can't believe he just said that, according to Islam, physical pleasure is superior to spiritual pleasure--i.e. that the pleasure of sex is superior to the pleasure of knowing God.

The picture painted by the bible doesn't give us the impression that knowing God is the most fulfilling experience. For example, in Genesis 2:18-20, God thought it expedient to create companions for Adam because "it was not good for the man to live alone".

Of what worth is the pleasure of animal companions and Eve when merely being in God's presence was sufficiently pleasurable?

Abdul Haziz said...

Ibn... what is the problem with you? Can’t you give a truthful view of Islam? Then, please, do what I do… keep quiet… There’re a lot of things I don’t know… not because I don’t what to know, but just because everyone tells me not to go through that path… but one thing I know: our religion forbids a lot of things that are promised to good Muslims in جنّة‎... what about Qur'an 76:19; 83:23-26? Please Ibn... don't make a poor presentation of our beautiful faith with your actions... السلام عليكم my brother…

Unknown said...

Dan:Is having sex with 72 virgins seem correct on earth to you?

What is so morally reprehensible about having sex with your wives? Keep in mind that the Quran says believing men will be WEDDED to pure female companions.

Dan:Is drinking wine seem correct to you on earth?
With the wine you will say"oh its special wine doesnt make you drunk"

Earthly alcohol has been forbidden for its harmful effects outweigh the good it produces. As a thing is wrong so long as the reason underlying its wrongness holds, and heavenly wine is all good-not producing any harmful consequences; it is not at all logically inconsistent for wine to be prohibited on earth but allowed in Paradise.

The same reasoning can be extended to other things forbidden in this life but which the believers will enjoy in Paradise.

David Wood said...

Ibn,

Your ignorance of the Bible is astounding. We don't believe that Adam was in Paradise (as in Islam). He was in a garden on earth. God would take on a form to appear to Adam, but Adam had no experience of God's complete presence.

Thus, heaven is quite different, and for you to say that the Bible gives no indication that the greatest experience is knowing God, I suggest that you read the Bible a little more carefully before you blurt things out. What will Christians be doing for all eternity? We will be worshiping God and singing praises to Him. It's therefore clear that this is what's most important to us. What do Muslims believe they'll be doing for all eternity? Having sex, drinking, and eating. It's clear what's most important to Muslims.

So, if you'd like to believe that sex is vastly superior to every other possible experience, be my guest. But don't try to force your corrupt, hedonistic, perverted view onto Christianity.

ben malik said...

Ibn says:

[I]If we are to be admitted to Paradise as physical beings, it follows that the pleasure awaiting us be physical as well. In fact, pleasure is purely a sensory phenomenon. Without our senses, we can feel no pleasure. So if Paradise is about pleasure, then believers must partake in it as physical entities so that they can experience bliss. After all, what purpose would it serve for them to be in Paradise if they can't feel its glory?

Really? Then how do you explain all those narrations from your prophet who mentions that the disbelievers will be tortured in their graves after they have died and that people burning in hell will be taken out and allowed to enter paradise?

And how explain these passages?

Think not of those who are slain in God's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord; They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah: And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve. They rejoice because of favour from Allah and kindness, and that Allah wasteth not the wage of the believers. Quran 3:169-171

How can any of these dead feel pleasure, joy or pain when they are not physical beings but exist as spirits or souls at this point?

DAN12345 said...

Was God next to adam 24/7 dont use silly arguments,no he wasnt,Thats why we need women here on earth.When we need God we go alone to our room and pray unlike muslims who pray out in the street for everyone to see,just as jesus rebuked the jews for being show offs,love to fast and tell everyone they are fasting,love to do big long prayers outside for everyone to see and wear robes to show off how religious they are.God made eve out of adams ribs not out of his head so she could rule him nor out of his feet so he could step over her but out of his ribs so she will always be close to his heart,

Fernando said...

Mister foonie man is back!!!

Hurray...

Goodd to se you Ibn... and more humourous than ever!!!

In the Garden of Eden Adam was note in the escathological paradise Ibn...

But that I know you know... so... I'me wonderingue: what are you trying to probe? I really can't grasp...

By the way... glad to see you back mie frien Abdul... I thought Bassam tryiede to silence you...

David Wood said...

Abdul Haziz said: "Please Ibn... don't make a poor presentation of our beautiful faith with your actions"

It seems that Ibn is misrepresenting both Islam and Christianity. I agree completely that Ibn should be far more careful in his defense of Islam and his critique of Christianity.

Abdul Haziz said...

Hello Fernando...

just a small word: thanks for your attitude of erasing the post you placed yesterday...

Unknown said...

Wood:The argument falls apart by the time we get to premise (2). For your argument to work, you would have to say that the only pain in hell is physical, or that the physical pain is far worse than any other sort of pain. But who's going to grant this? Christians believe that the worst aspect of Hell is being completely separated from God. This is spiritual pain. Hence, a Christian is bound to reject your argument. Of course, Muslims are generally hedonists who tend to evaluate everything in terms of physical pain/pleasure, so I'm sure many Muslims will be satisfied with your defense of an eternity if orgies.

Being separated from God takes the form of punishment by incineration which is a physical experience. Hence, my argument holds.

Moreover, just like pleasure, pain is also a purely sensory phenomenon. Since a spirit lacks senses, and senses are required to experience pain since it is through them that experience takes place, it follows that the spirit cannot feel pain. As such, there is no such thing as spiritual pain.

Unknown said...

Abdul Haziz:Ibn... what is the problem with you? Can’t you give a truthful view of Islam? Then, please, do what I do… keep quiet… There’re a lot of things I don’t know… not because I don’t what to know, but just because everyone tells me not to go through that path… but one thing I know: our religion forbids a lot of things that are promised to good Muslims in جنّة‎... what about Qur'an 76:19; 83:23-26? Please Ibn... don't make a poor presentation of our beautiful faith with your actions... السلام عليكم my brother…

First, Gay Muslim. Now Abdul Haziz. The level these disbelievers will stoop to!

DAN12345 said...

Ibn said "What is so morally reprehensible about having sex with your wives? Keep in mind that the Quran says believing men will be WEDDED to pure female companions."
The word WIVES is what is so morally reprehensible.And can u have 72 wives on earth?no you cant so again you are made great promises in order to get followers to do what islam teaches.Thats why people are dying from terrorist attacks.
Ibn said "Earthly alcohol has been forbidden for its harmful effects outweigh the good it produces. As a thing is wrong so long as the reason underlying its wrongness holds, and heavenly wine is all good-not producing any harmful consequences; it is not at all logically inconsistent for wine to be prohibited on earth but allowed in Paradise."
Again if you are an Angel then in paradise what would happen if god gave you normal EARTHLY wine to drink?Would you go crazy drunk even as an angel and start having sex with loads of women and eating?oh sorry you were going to do this anyway in paradise according to islam sorry.So what im trying to show you is as an angel/spirit or whatever you think you will be in paradise,nothing you crave on earth you will crave in heaven,you wont feel no pain or cry no more,Jesus said he will wipe every tear away from your eye.

Unknown said...

Wood:Your ignorance of the Bible is astounding. We don't believe that Adam was in Paradise (as in Islam). He was in a garden on earth. God would take on a form to appear to Adam, but Adam had no experience of God's complete presence.

You are attacking a straw man since my argument was in response to your claim that simply knowing God is infinitely more pleasurable than carnal activities. Adam knew God; yet, he wasn't satisfied. Why?

Ben Malik:Really? Then how do you explain all those narrations from your prophet who mentions that the disbelievers will be tortured in their graves after they have died and that people burning in hell will be taken out and allowed to enter paradise?

The hadith mention that the disbelievers will be tortured bodily in their graves. If you think otherwise, please post the germane reports.

Malik:And how explain these passages?

Think not of those who are slain in God's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord; They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah: And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve. They rejoice because of favour from Allah and kindness, and that Allah wasteth not the wage of the believers. Quran 3:169-171

I recall a hadith in which it is said that martyrs are temporarily residing in the bodies of green birds of Paradise. This, too, is a physical phenomenon.

Unknown said...

Dan, you are not paying attention to my arguments. I explicitly explained as to how it is logically plausible to permit on heaven what has been prohibited on earth.

Let's see what Wood and Malik has to say.

Abdul Haziz said...

Ibn... don't call me a disbeliever!!! How dare you? How dare you?!! I’m as a good Muslim as you are!!!... Who are you to think yourself superior??? السلام عليكم…

MP said...

"logically plausible"... well that's the problem with muslims... they extrapolate everything from theirs own (false) revelation and theirs (corrupted) tradition... well that doesn't make those assertions more true than their revelation/tradition...

And by the way... your arguments? Are you kidding? They’re not but a bucket full of acetylsalicylic acid, sodium bicarbonate and citric acid… also know as Alka-Seltzer… jut to be taken by those who are full of stomach pain due to the lies you have to swallow to keep yourselves as muslims…

Unknown said...

Common missionary tactic: when cornered by your opponent's arguments, discount them vituperatively in order to give the impression to credulous readers that you have won.

Gay Muslim said...

Karim and Ibn...

to sad you're both wrong!!! See Scott Kugle's (a Muslim gay activist just like me...) work...

MP said...

Ibn... can you present, one by one, your "arguments"? Y really didn't see anyone...

Or your dawa tactics (saying something stupid and then running away like a coward...) does not allow you?

Fernando said...

Alforreca... as I saide before... Ibn is back... don'te losse time with him... keepe your effords to other more worthy debaters...

Ibn is always the same: «bogus... bogus... bogus... bogus... huge-bogus... that's a logical conclusion

hey... howe do you saie I diden't presente arguments? It's just youre missionary tactics which doesn'te allow you to see how amayzingue I am...»

David Wood said...

Ibn, who have you ever cornered in all of history? We're dealing with a text that declares that Muslims will take the wives of unbelievers and spend eternity having sex with these women. The men will have eternal erections, so they can have sex all day long. You're defending the claim that physical pleasures are vastly superior to spiritual pleasures, that having sex with the wives of your enemies outweighs knowing and worshiping the Almighty. Any non-Muslim reading your claims will be completely repulsed by your religion and views. And yet we're the ones who are cornered? (Note: I can only assume, based on the utter silence of your Muslim friends, that they agree with you.)

Moreover, you still can't grasp any responses that anyone offers. I say that knowing God is superior to having sex. You object and say that Adam knew God. Did Adam know God in the manner I'm discussing? Of course not! Adam thought he could hide from God. Thus, he clearly didn't comprehend God's greatness, infinite nature, omnipresence, etc. I'm talking about knowing God fully. That will vastly surpass all carnal pleasures. And all you can say in response is: "No. Sex is better. I just want sex. Sex! Sex! Sex! That's what it's all about! We don't care about knowing God! We just obey him because he's the one who can give us lots of sex! SEX!!! S-E-X!!! That's why one wife isn't enough! That's why four wives aren't enough and we need slave girls. And even with all our wives and slave girls, we're still restraining ourselves so that we can ultimately reach our final goal--eternal erections and infinite SEX with our wives, with our houris, and with the wives of non-Muslims. It will be greater than the most magnificent porn movie ever!!! SEX! SEX! SEX!"

Please continue. I want people to understand how hedonistic Islam really is, and you're doing a great job of showing this.

DAN12345 said...

Ibn anything is "logically plausible" by God.We are not arguing that we are asking you do you think God the creator the alpha and the omega would make us live our lifes here then if we do good reward us with 72 virgins does this sound to you like GOD?You see to you it is logically plausible as your religion has sex in abudance going on.Whereas mine it is not logically plausible for us to believe God will give rewards such as women.Many have asked what is the meaning of life?many great thinkers have pondered this eternal unanswered question.But you have settled this thousands year old question,the meaning of life is to follow islam then to recieve the women the wine and the food,oh and the silk,these earthly pleasures fit right in with your paradise.
Did you never think we will be doing things in heaven your mind cannot even know or phantom in heaven,no for the unseen has to be seen in islam to make the followers follow islam,thats why Allah has offered you earthly pleasures that your desires crave.It reminds me of when Satan tried to tempt Jesus he promised him everything Power Fame etc.Jesus rejected it,but the muslims are accepting it from him.

DAN12345 said...

One thing Nobody should blame Ibn he is giving the typical muslim answers any muslim would give,dont blame him,bassam or sami would also give the same old excuses.

ben malik said...

Ibn,

Can you explain how dead bodies are still experiencing torture physically if they are dead? What makes them dead then if they are still continuing to feel physical torture and agony?

This Islamic religion gets more confusing and weird everytime I study it.

ben malik said...

And did you guys read what Ibn wrote? The souls of the martyrs in the bodies of green birds!!!! ROFL

Yeah, this is the stuff of comic books.

Fernando said...

Ibn said, and Ben malik notices very well: «The souls of the martyrs in the bodies of green birds»... and whie not green dragons? Perhaps dragons don't exist... and why I know that? because they, being an animal, have six legs and the Qur'an said that ALL ANIMALS have 2 or 4 legs... will they also have eternal erections in eaven? Perhaps some muslims zoophilists will be glad with that... Oops... such there're not gay muslims (with respect to you "Gay Muslim"), I supose there not zoophilia in muslims countries...

Oops... I'm sorie... another mistake: «A man can have sex with animals such as sheep¹s, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine»

Khomeini's - "Tahrirolvasyleh", IV, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990

Oops... all of these texts that ashamed muslimes were destroyied... just the Qur'an versions that were not in accordance with Uthmans view of islam...

Michelle Qureshi said...

One thing is for sure - Ibn has certainly provided us with plenty of proof that a sincere student of Islam (as he is) would no doubt conclude that sex is better than everything else, even the joy of knowing God Himself.

This is what Islam does to people. Astaghfirullah!

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

Yeah I have to agree that this particular debate rings some serious alarm bells.

I guess the Muslim have not grasped that Christians are more concerned with what they will be than what they will do in the heavenly bliss; I guess what we will do when the former heaven and earth have vanished is probably above our understanding as is our heavenly state.

Hogan Elijah Hagbard said...

I would also like to hear the response of other muslims on the blog to Karim's presentation on the islamic heaven. Can a muslim wife in heaven engage with multiple sexual relationships with an infinite number male lovers other than her husbands?

I would like to hear some comments on this.

Michelle Qureshi said...

Pop quiz!
Question: How do you make boys in their late teens and early twenties ready to die at a moment's notice?

Answer: Guarantee them endless sex with endless women and an endless erection!

Hey, it works. And who can blame these poor guys? If everything they've been taught tells them that sex will be the highest good in heaven, then they really are being very religious for wanting all that sex.

Royal Son said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David Wood said...

Royal Son said: "On a final note, even Ahmed Deedat stated that there is no marriage in paradise. So who are these 72 virgins?"

If Deedat said that, then he knew even less about Islam than he knew about Christianity (i.e. next to nothing). In "Paradise," Muslims get (1) their earthly wives, (2) the houris (the number of which will depend on how well the Muslim did on earth), and (3) the wives of Jews, Christians, and pagans.

Royal Son said...

I find it fascinating that a Muslim can say that being in the presence of God would not be the greatest thing.

By such a commment, the Muslim does our work for us and exposes his own religion.

Allow me to post what I consider to be some very relevant verses to what has been discussed here:

1 Corinthians 2:14 - "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."

Romans 8:6 - "For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,"

1 John 2:16 - "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world."

At the end of the day, the motivating factor for Christians is the love of God manifested through the death of His Son Jesus Christ. The motivating factor for Muslims is lust of the flesh.

These are the two opposing worldviews. One is light. One is darkness.

On a final note, even Ahmed Deedat stated that there is no marriage in paradise. So who are these 72 virgins?

From all the data I have seen, the Islamic concept of Paradise is one of adultery and sinful pleasure for eternity.

Royal Son said...

Sorry David, I had to repost my entry.

Interestingly, while our friend Ibn has been exalting sex as something higher than being in the presence of God, the late Ahmed Deedat said the following in his book "What is His Name?" , CHAPTER FOUR : ALLAH IN THE BIBLE :

"begetting is an animal act, belonging to the lower animal functions of sex"

That's interesting, Ibn says it's high, Deedat says it's low.

In Chapter 14: Jesus Not Resurrected of Ahmed Deedat's book - Crucifixion or Cruci-fiction he writes:

In answer to that, Jesus says: "Neither shall they die anymore" — meaning that the resurrected persons will be immortalised: needing no food, no shelter, no clothing, no sex, no rest. "For they are equal unto the angels," meaning that they will be ANGELISED, they will be SPIRITUALISED, they will become SPIRITUAL CREATURES, they will be SPIRITS! As regards himself, four chapters further on he says: "A spirit has no flesh and bones, as you see me have" — I am NOT a spirit, I am NOT a ghost, I am NOT a spook, I am NOT RESURRECTED! I am the same living Jesus — ALIVE!

Amazing how many Muslims idolize a man who actually had a very non-islamic view of paradise.

And I know, that quote has SO MUCH wrong with it, aside from the marriage thing, but hope that helps. I'd love to hear from our resident Deedat fan-club to see what they have to say.

Taylor said...

72 virgins for eternity. 72. That's all you get? For eternity?
-John MacArthur

Nakdimon said...

Ben Malik: “And did you guys read what Ibn wrote? The souls of the martyrs in the bodies of green birds!!!! ROFL”

Ben Malik, I wonder from what source he has read this foolishness.

So, Ibn… source please!

David Wood said...

I've read about the green birds. Those are authentic ahadith. If Ibn doesn't want to give the sources, I'll look them up.

DAN12345 said...

http://www.7cgen.com/index.php?showtopic=28789&pid=470007&st=0&
amazing must watch live footage of the green birds...
interesting articles
http://www.islamicawakening.com/viewarticle.php?articleID=1012

Ammara said...

Why pick up a hadith defined as "weak" and start arguing over that.Anyway one you said that scholars probably just did that cause they felt it would harm the religion. Well, this was basically after the prophet(PBUH) had died so when you come down to it there is no real evidence that he ever said that. Don't get me wrong i'm not negating whatever the hadiths are saying. Well, these hadiths were memorized by his wives and companions which were the compiled. However for every single hadith a group of scholars would go down to the roots of it. They would refer to the Qura'n for supoorting verses. No one would just label it as WEAK for their own sake. Their intentions were to preserve the word of prophet muhammed (pbuh) for future generations. They beleived sincerly in prophet Muhammed and the word of God. They wanted to take part in putting forward his message not to fine tune it. I don't think any of them felt that "Oh that doesn't sound quite right, so totally wrong, let's just throw it away". Numerous investigations were carried out, no one just randomly got to decide what is right. It wasn't their job to analyze the hadiths and PERFECT the religion, they just needed sources to proove what his hadith. There might be quite a other hadith you may find as contradictory, but then again, Chistanity and Islam, however having the same roots, are two different religions. And, i'm sorry but you can't just attack a hadith like this.

Unknown said...

This is a weak Hadith


It was narrated from Abu Umamah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:
“There is no one whom Allah will admit to Paradise but Allah will marry him to seventy-two wives, two from houris and seventy from his inheritance from the people of Hell, all of whom will have desirable front passages and he will have a male member that never becomes flaccid (i.e., soft and limp).’”
حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامُ بْنُ خَالِدٍ الأَزْرَقُ أَبُو مَرْوَانَ الدِّمَشْقِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا خَالِدُ بْنُ يَزِيدَ بْنِ أَبِي مَالِكٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ خَالِدِ بْنِ مَعْدَانَ، عَنْ أَبِي أُمَامَةَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ ‏ "‏ مَا مِنْ أَحَدٍ يُدْخِلُهُ اللَّهُ الْجَنَّةَ إِلاَّ زَوَّجَهُ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ ثِنْتَيْنِ وَسَبْعِينَ زَوْجَةً ثِنْتَيْنِ مِنَ الْحُورِ الْعِينِ وَسَبْعِينَ مِنْ مِيرَاثِهِ مِنْ أَهْلِ النَّارِ مَا مِنْهُنَّ وَاحِدَةٌ إِلاَّ وَلَهَا قُبُلٌ شَهِيٌّ وَلَهُ ذَكَرٌ لاَ يَنْثَنِي ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ هِشَامُ بْنُ خَالِدٍ مِنْ مِيرَاثِهِ مِنْ أَهْلِ النَّارِ يَعْنِي رِجَالاً دَخَلُوا النَّارَ فَوَرِثَ أَهْلُ الْجَنَّةِ نِسَاءَهُمْ كَمَا وُرِثَتِ امْرَأَةُ فِرْعَوْنَ ‏.

Grade : Da’if (Darussalam)

I wish we could use this but we cannot.