Saturday, February 21, 2009

Beat her for not covering her hands...

Sometimes I just shake my head and wonder in sadness... how is it getting to this? People are just too blind to see that women the world over are being oppressed by Islam.

Here's yet another example: a man is turning to this Muslim website to ask what should be done about his disobedient wife. He has asked her repeatedly to cover her hands, but she does not listen (perhaps she likes using them?) This site, Islam Q&A, has delivered what it's name promises: Islamic judgement. Verdict? Beat her if you must. While you're at it, threaten her with divorce.

62 comments:

Osama Abdallah said...

Nabeel,

In Islam, a wife has to obendient to her husband as long as he executes his authority in what Pleases Allah Almighty. If the wife is disobedient or defiant to her husband, then according to Noble Verse 4:34, he is to:

1- Warn her.

2- If she does it again, then desert her bed for a period of time.

3- If she does it again, then "BEAT" her. However, in Arabic and in the Noble Quran, "beat" means both "hit" and "leave".

4- If she does it again, then he is to bring a team from her family and his and discuss where to go next with this relationship. IF THINGS GO WELL THEN REMAIN MARRIED AND FORGET AND FORGIVE. OTHERWISE, DIVORCE.


The reader can visit: www.answering-christianity.com/beating.htm. I've written two detailed articles on this.

Now certainly in the Bible, women can be not only be beating, BUT ALSO TORTURED AND RIPPED INTO PIECES. They are even burnt with FIRE and have their HANDS CUT OFF for mere defiance. The reader can visit: www.answering-christianity.com/woman.htm

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

Sorry typo...

"Now certainly in the Bible, women can be not only be beating, BUT ALSO TORTURED AND RIPPED INTO PIECES. They are even burnt with FIRE and have their HANDS CUT OFF for mere defiance. The reader can visit: www.answering-christianity.com/woman.htm"

IS READ AS

Now certainly in the Bible, women can be not only be BEATEN, BUT ALSO TORTURED AND RIPPED INTO PIECES. They are even burnt with FIRE and have their HANDS CUT OFF for mere defiance. The reader can visit: www.answering-christianity.com/woman.htm

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Bryant said...

Osama,

You're a liar and you know it. No one can possibly be this ignorant of the position he chooses to refute. Where in the Bible does God give authority to men to "torture and rip open" their wives? You are commanded by your devil to beat innocent women when they "disobey" you. Christians are commanded to be willing to die for their wives (Ephesians 5:25). God even goes so far as to say that if you mistreat your wife, God will not hear your prayers (1 Peter 3:7). Do you HEAR THAT!?!? God will ignore the husband if he disrespects his wife. Islam has no concept of honoring their wife in this way.

Osama since you've been on this blog I can honestly say that my faith has been strengthened. You are a terrible apologist.

Osama Abdallah said...

Byrant,

Cool your jets. I did give the link that leads you to the Biblical verses, did I not? Well, since you don't want to bother going there and read, then I'll give them to you:

CUTTING THE HANDS OF THE WIFE:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "And in case men struggle together (in a fight) with one another, and the wife of the one has come near to deliver her husband out of the striking one (to save her husband), and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of his private (the other man's groin), she must then get both her hands cut off, and the eyes of the men must feel no sorrow."

SETTING HER ON FIRE:

Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."

SELLING YOUR DAUGHTER AS A SLAVE GIRL: (have any sale this weekend Byrant? LIKE BUY ONE GET ONE FREE?)

Exodus 21:7-8 "And in case a man should sell his daughter as a slave girl, she will not go out in the way that the slave men go out. If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master so that he doesn't designate her as a concubine but causes her to be redeemed, he will not be entitled to sell her to a foreign people in his treacherously dealing with her."

RIP THE PREGNANT WOMEN'S TUMMIES OPEN:

Hosea 13:16 (King James) Samaria will bear her guilt because she has rebelled against her God.
They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.

Want more Bryant? I got at least 20 times more of these types of verses, BUT IT WOULD BE TOO LENGTHY TO POST THEM HERE FOR YOU.

Again, please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/woman.htm

And

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac12.htm#links

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

And oh yeah Bryant, before you say that this is the OLD LAW, please read JESUS CHRIST'S OWN QUOTES that command you to follow the Law:

Matthew 15:1-9
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3 Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'

5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
6he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/death.htm

BY THE WAY, I HAVE SILENCED JAMES WHITE ON THIS POINT DURING MY DEBATE WITH HIM. I love how he said I brought everything under the sun except for the kitchen sink. :-).

Have a good day Bryant,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

SO ACCORDING TO CHRIST HIMSELF, my dear friend Bryant, then next time you yell at your mom or disobey your dad, make sure you PUT YOURSELF TO DEATH, my dear Bryant.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

LONG LIVE ISLAM!!!!!!!

Michelle Qureshi said...

Osama -

Have you ever even tried to represent the Christian side accurately?

Osama Abdallah said...

Nabeel,

Which side do you want to discuss here? The Jesus Christ side who said:

"I have not come to discontinue the LAW but rather to fulfill its Prophecies." (Matthew 5:17-18)

And has commanded you, AS I HAVE THOROUGHLY DEMONSTRATED TO BRYANT ABOVE, to follow the LAW.

--OR--

Paul's side who called the same LAW that Christ ordered you to follow a curse?

Galatians 3:13
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."


Which side do you want me to respresent here for you?

AND IS THIS THE BEST YOU CAN SAY AND REFUTE, NABEEL?

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

David Wood said...

So according to Osama, Jesus wants us to follow all of the Old Testament Law, while Paul rejects the Law. And yet, in the same sermon Osama just quoted, Jesus tells his followers not to follow the Old Testament Law. Further, Paul says: "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

It's clear, then, that according to both Jesus and Paul, the law has a purpose, and yet people of the New Covenant are not under the law.

Yet Osama knows nothing of this. Why? Because he has no desire to understand Christianity. He simply wants to attack it. This works quite well among his Muslim supporters, who, like him, know nothing about Christianity. But when Osama speaks to people who have studied the scriptures, his claims sound absolutely ridiculous, and it's clear that virtually everything he says about Christianity is based on ignorance, misrepresentation, and outright deception.

Oh well. What else should we expect from the man who doesn't know that John the Baptist and John the Apostle are two different people?

Osama Abdallah said...

Give me quotes please David. No unsupported lectures by scriptures.

Where did CHRIST SAY NOT TO FOLLOW THE LAW?

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

David,

I just quoted you and everyone Jesus saying that THE LAW IS TO BE FOLLOWED ALL THE TIME:

"I have not come to discontinue the LAW but rather to fulfill its Prophecies." (Matthew 5:17-18)

And the example of JESUS COMMANDING THE DEATH OF THOSE WHO CURSE THEIR PARENTS:

Matthew 15:1-9
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3 Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'

5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
6he is not to 'honor his father' with it. THUS YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR TRADITIONS.

Did you even read this David?

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

And yes, I grant you that CHRIST HAS MODIFIED some of the Law like in adultery for instance. But that doesn't mean AT ALL that the law is to be completely removed.

For instance, the LAW SAYS that the sons ONLY inherit from the father. Today, your christian societies give the girls the same shares as the boys. YOUR RELIGION IS CLEARLY MAN-MADE DAVID. It is not based on any solid ground.

To the reader, please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/ot.htm

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Royal Son said...

Osama, Please DO NOT link us to your site. It is infected. You have been told this over and over again. You are being completely irresponsible. If you have points to make, just make them here and stop trying to get hits to your virus laden site.

Thank you.

Royal Son said...

And by the way Osama. You don't like Paul because you say he nullified the law.

So let me ask you, are you keeping the law?

If not, what is your problem with Paul?

By the way, Christ came to FULFILL the law, because prior to Him it was UNFULFILLED, i.e nobody managed to keep it.

Osama Abdallah said...

Royal Son,

I have given you the McAfee site that says after they tested my site they declared it clean:

http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/answering-christianity.com?version=2&core_ver=1.0&pip=true&premium=false&client_ver=2.9.242&client_type=IEPlugin&suite=true&aff_id=105&locale=en-us&os_ver=5.1.3.0

Now as to me following the Law, no as a Muslim, I do not follow the Law of the Jews, because I have the LAW OF ISLAM TO FOLLOW.

As to me having "problems" with Paul, my opinion here is irrelevant Royal Son. My points and the quotes that I gave to Bryant, David and Nabeel ALL SHOW THAT CHRISTIANITY TODAY IS CONFUSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

That's the point :-).

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Bryant said...

Osama,


I'm only gonna say this one time because you are spiritually blinded and you will never get it. You go back and forth on this blog never learning anything about the position you so adamantly wish to refute.


In the beginning of the chapter you quoted, Matthew Ch 15, the Pharisees come to Jesus accusing HIM of Breaking the Law! We see this again in Matthew ch 12, when the Pharisees came to Jesus because he was breaking the sabbath day law. Which he was technically doing. Jesus then tells them that he is Lord of the Sabbath! Why was Jesus "breaking the law?" If you look at both passages clearly, you will see that Jesus was showing the Pharisees that righteousness is NOT gained through following the law. Because indeed, no one can follow the law perfectly. Christians have a godly reverence for God's perfect law, because we realize that we cannot follow it perfectly. This is what Jesus was teaching at the sermon on the mount when he said:

"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 5:20)

So what did Jesus mean when he said that he has come to fulfill the law, not abolish it? He meant that the scriptures teach of Him dying on the cross and taking our iniquities on him, therefore fulfilling God's perfect law perfectly for us. (Isaiah 53)

Jesus corrected our understanding of the law in the sermon of the Mt. Since the Holy Spirit came, and the church started, now Christians live by the law of the Spirit. (Romans 8:2)

Osama Abdallah said...

Dear Bryant,

Very nicely said. Your argument is certainly both strong and beautiful. If I may, I'd like to tell you where Islam comes to correct Christianity in regards to CHRIST, Salvation, and following the Jewish Law:

1- I fully agree with you that the Jewish Law is not possible to follow perfectly. It was put by GOD Almighty because He, the Almighty, Knew how evil and treacherous the Jews are. As you probably know, they're even behind 9/11.

2- You quoted a very important quot about Jesus Christ:

"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 5:20)

And you said:

"So what did Jesus mean when he said that he has come to fulfill the law, not abolish it? He meant that the scriptures teach of Him dying on the cross and taking our iniquities on him, therefore fulfilling God's perfect law perfectly for us. (Isaiah 53)"

MY DISAGREEMENT WITH YOU:

Matthew 5:20 doesn't automatically mean that the Law is to be nullified. It just tells Jesus' followers that they have to be more Righteous than the Pharises, WHOM JESUS CALLED HYPOCRITES. So in order for you to follow Christ, then at the bare minimum YOU MUST NOT BE A HYPOCRITE.

Isaiah 53 does not talk about Christ getting crucified. Isaiah 53 even talks about the man who will be pierced for the people's sins TO LIVE TO SEE HIS OFFSPRINGS (SONS AND DAUGHTERS):

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.


NOT ONLY THAT, BUT Isaiah 52:13 and many verses in Psalm 34:19-20, Psalm 91:11-12 and many other verses all declare that CHRIST WILL BE SAVED FROM CRUCIFIXION!

The reader can visit: www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah_53.htm for more details and proofs.

That is why Islam came. Islam is the new system, not Christianity. CHRIST CAME TO GIVE GLAD TIDINGS ABOUT MUHAMMAD, peace be upon him.

I hope this helps.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Taylor said...

Matthew 15:1-9
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3 Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
6he is not to 'honor his father' with it. THUS YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR TRADITIONS.


In this case, the allusion to the OT law is referential. Jesus is referring to that law, not promoting it. He is using it didactically. The Law (except for the 10 commandments) is no longer to be followed. Remember that Jesus abolishes the laws for divorce, eye-for-eye, and oaths in Matthew 5.

Fernando said...

Usama... youre ignorance about the Bible is disgusting!!! Absoluttelie disgusting!!! you think we christians read it the waie you muslims read the Qur'an: acritiquely... I'm sick by your falsitie... And once again: YOURE SITE IS INFECTED AND IS SENDING TROJAN TO COMPUTERS...

Osama Abdallah said...

Fernando and dear Taylor,

Fernando - you keep spreading the same lie over and over again about my site spreading trojan despite the fact that I've given you the link from MCAFEE THAT SAID THAT MY SITE IS CLEAN AND SAFE:

http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/answering-christianity.com?version=2&core_ver=1.0&pip=true&premium=false&client_ver=2.9.242&client_type=IEPlugin&suite=true&aff_id=105&locale=en-us&os_ver=5.1.3.0



Taylor - We have not seen a clear-cut evidence from JESUS CHRIST COMPLETELY ABOLISHING THE LAW, especially when he himself said:

"I have not come to discontinue the LAW but rather to fulfill its Prophecies." (Matthew 5:17-18)

If Christ indeed came to give a new LAW and discontinue the OLD LAW, then Matthew 5:17-18 is an absurd statement at best.

Furthermore, in the Matthew 15:5, Jesus said: "THUS YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR TRADITIONS."

In Matthew 15:6-10 Jesus further continues by saying to them "YOU HYPOCRITES!....you follow the LAW IN VAIN"

What Christians have given me were abrogations of some of the Law by CHRIST. The abrogations don't mean a total discontinuing of the LAW.

I'LL SAY THIS:

The strongest and biggest and most important points in all of the verses that we've given were two sets of verses:

"I have not come to discontinue the LAW but rather to fulfill its Prophecies." (Matthew 5:17-18)

AND

Isaiah 53 that Bryant referenced.


Isaiah 53 is really a mistranslation combined with wrong interpretation. Isaiah 53:10 clearly talks about THE KING WILL LIVE TO SEE HIS BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN:

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.


This clearly refutes Christianity, because ACCORDING TO YOU, CHRIST HAD NO CHILDREN AND NO WIVES.

The verse also means that the "death" reference and the king's life overcoming death in Isaiah 53:1-9 are all symbolic speech and nothing more, because we further see in Psalm 34:19-20, Psalm 91:11-12 that CHRIST WILL CLEARLY BE SAVED FROM CRUCIFIXION.

Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah_53.htm

Have a good day Taylor.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

Tylor,

Please pay attention to:

Isaiah 52:13 "...he will be raised and lifted up...."

Psalm 91:11-12
11 For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways;
12 they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

If Christ was indeed crucified, then Psalm 91:12 is a LIE because

1- CHRIST would not have been lifted by the Angels.

2- CHRIST'S feet would've struck the ground after he was thrown off of the cross when he died on it. HIS FEET WOULD'VE STRUCK THE STONES,
and this clearly makes Psalm 91:12 a LIE.

I hope this helps.

Again, please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah_53.htm

Have a goood day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Taylor said...

Thanks Osama,

A proper understanding of Matthew 5:17-18 is rooted in the very context in which it was spoken.

When Jesus spoke those words about the "fulfillment of the Law", he at the same time spoke of the annulment of those three laws I mentioned previously: divorce, eye-for-eye, and oaths. Thus "fulfillment" cannot mean adhering to the old Law.

In fact, "fulfillment" has to do with restoration. In Matthew 19, when Jesus again annuls the old law for divorce, he reasons "Haven't you read that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female'. . . For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?" When the Pharisees respond that Moses gave the Israelites that law, Jesus replies, "But it was not this way from the beginning."

When Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, he meant that he came to restore everything to the way they were in the beginning.

Taylor said...

At the same time, I think that Jesus promoted the keeping of the 10 commandments (not as a means to gain salvation but as a part of obeying God out of love).

When Jesus abolishes the commandments of divorce, eye-for-eye, and oaths in Matthew 5, he simultaneously talks about two of the 10 commandments: murder and adultery. But notice he doesn't annul them as he does with divorce, eye-for-eye, and oaths. Instead, he holds to maintaining them but while pointing to deeper issues of intent and the heart.

Thus, "fulfill" means that Jesus came to restore things to the way they were in the beginning. It appears that the 10 commandments are part of that restoration but the remaining 603 laws are not.

Taylor said...

In Matthew 15, Jesus is not promoting a teaching as he does in Matthew 5. Instead he is responding to the religious leaders. And in his response, he gives an example of their hypocrisy by referring to the Law.

It seems to me that Jesus' use of the Law in Matthew 15 is referential, not promotional. For Jesus' promotions, one should consult Matthew 5.

Taylor said...

Why doesn't Jesus explicitly annul all 603 laws?

Well, we enter the field of speculation here since the Bible does not address this, but there are nevertheless a couple of good reasons why not.

1. Maybe Jesus did mention more of the laws. The recorded sermon on the mount is widely understood as an abbreviation of the actual sermon by Jesus.
2. Matthew would have had to expand his gospel by 3/4 a size.
3. Matthew saw no need to do so, since the Jewish audience he was addressing would have picked up on Jesus' message after a few examples. Thus the examples suffice as a rule.

Osama Abdallah said...

My dear Taylor,

I'll say this:

1- Christianity remains confused.

2- Christianity had corrupted the Law and the Teachings of MY LORD AND COMING PROPHET AND NEXT LEADER AGAINST SATAN, JESUS CHRIST.

3- You are not just to follow the 10 Commandments are reject the rest. The law prohibits FOR YOU to marry your father's former wife (your step-mom)! You can't come today and fall in love with her because you're a Christian.

THE LAW PROHIBITS you from marrying your niece. Hindues marry the sister's daughter (not the brother's daughter)! You can't continue this practice if you are a FORMER HINDU who embraced Christianity!

CHRISTIANITY IS A CONFUSED RELIGION!

The LAW says that daughters DO NOT INHERIT when there are sons! Only the sons do! Today, under your so-called EQUALITY WITH WOMEN COW CRAP OR BS, your people mock Islam, as Nabeel dared to do in this thread, while YOUR LAW IS 10000000000000000000000000000
TIMES WORSE!


Again, Christianity is CONFUSED! You just can't marry your former step-mom Taylor. You just can't give inheritance to girls when boys are around. I am sorry, but this is the LAW that you should follow as a Christian. Your christianity of today is a man-made politically correct and corrupt religion. It is not based on what CHRIST HAS INTENDED AND TAUGHT.

I hope you see the light of Islam my dear Taylor.

Have a blessed day Taylor.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Nakdimon said...

Oy vey! I even hesitate to answer this ignorant excuse of an apologist. This is the same guy who has been told a stunning one hundred times that he mistakes John the Baptist for John the Apostle and that these two aren't one and the same. Yet, he refuses to except that correction, where any other Muslim knows the distinction between those two. The sadest thing is that his fellow Muslims leave him in the pitiful state he is in.

This is also the same pathetic soul that claimed that the word death isn't in Isaiah 53:9, based on a translation. When dr White points out that the word in the original Hebrew text is "moth", which means death, if present in the verse, he still doesn't want to listen and insists that the word "death" isn't in the text, because some translation doesn't have that word.

So why should I even bother to address his pathetic claims that the Torah permits torture and all kinds of nonsense that we find in his cult. If he doesn't understand the simple biblical 1+1 how on earth would he understand the biblical 99x99?

You guys are totally wasting your time with this circus act that tries to engage in apologetics.

Nakdimon

Osama Abdallah said...

Nakdimon,

Obviously you are silenced and have no answer. Not only that, but you seem to be quite frustrated at your confusing religion.

You believe in crucifixion when there are MANY VERSES in the Old Testament that say that Christ will never get crucified, and that the Angels will lift him up.

Again, the reader can visit: www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah_53.htm

As to John and which John is which, it is quite hilarious that you mentioned it, especially when your own CONSERVATIVE THEOLOGIANS admit that they don't know who is who. The reader can read their many statements at: http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/who_authored_the_new_testament_

And also at: www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Alexandre Freire Duarte said...

Osama... As someone said before: your lack of sincerity and knowledge of Christian doctrines are disgusting! For someone who says he does not understand how many Johns exist in the NT one should not be surprised when you say Christianity is a confused religion... amazing is to see you continuously trying to direct us to your infected virus site (no matters what MacAfee says… we have the evidence in our own computers…) to explain about Christianity… it’s something like listening to someone saying: «I don’t see how 2 plus 2 equals 4, but come to my site and I’ll explain you how trigonometry works»… preposterous…

islam is, indeed, a more simple religion:

don't think;

don't use your reason;

accept everything they say to you;

don't even dare to question what you are told;

don't read the qur'an in a language you could understand it;

when you find absurdities in the qur’an or in the hadiths just ignore them or say one is from a weak tradition;

when you find something in them that is in contradiction with history or science then just conceive another meaning to some facts or words and reinvent history or science;

since everyone can see that the traditional ways to try to defend the divine origin of the qur’an are totally bogus just invent some new ones after new ones silencing the counter-evidences being presented… preposterous

You have been contradicted in your shear ignorance in this blog in the last weeks several times, but all the lies you copy from your infantile site surely are still there: the myth that Jews can have sex with 3 years old babies; the myth Song 8:1-3 promotes pornography and incest; the myth Constantine gathered bible-scholars to decide the canon of the Bible… and so on… preposterous

Now… for your list of biblical texts about women (and I would love to see all the other ones… but I just won’t go to an infected site promoting jihad…) I’ll use as an example of your completely lack of knowledge of the Bible, its hermeneutics and, specially the absence of sincerity and truth in your words, the example you present quoting Hosea 13:16: «Samaria will pay the penalty for having rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, their little children will be dashed to pieces and their pregnant women disembowelled»… Who’s speaking here? Hosea and YHWH or, to be more precisely, YHWH by the hand of Hosea… but does the text says who’ll realize this action? No it does not: it simply states that this will happen… and historically, who did this? The Assyrians who invaded and destroyed Samaria circa 722 b.C.. This is a prophetic text: an account of what would happen if the Samaritan people would suffer if, and only if, they didn’t gave up their political alliances with the Assyrians and, in order to pre turn themselves to a complete trustful relation with YHWH… This is a warning!!! An appeal to conversion… the actions that were at the end of the tunnel would only happen if the Samaritans continued to put their trust in their political alliances and not in YHWH… unfortunately that was what happened at the hand of the Assyrians… your effort to say this text presents an example of violence or disregard to women is ridiculous… preposterous

About Matthew 15:1-9… another perfect example of your total ignorance… It’s amazing the way you give your opponents the chance to show it to all publicly… more ridiculous are your affirmations that you have silenced your opponents about this point… James White surely was silenced but only by your lack of intelligence… The context of this passage is “the oral traditions of the elders” which were defence by the Pharisees… where in the Torah, Osama, says one should wash one’s hands before a meal? Can you answer us all on this point Osama… We’ll be waiting… What Jesus does is to redirect the Pharisee’s stupid statement to another point: the “korban”, this is, the ways that, according the Pharisees, one should follow to declare something sacred in order to show that these “oral traditions” could divert someone to the more important aspects presented in the Law… Jesus is not saying to respect the Law, but trying to explain that there’s, or should be, an hierarchy in someone’s worries in which the oral traditions had much less importance when in contrast with the Law, which, by her side, and by herself, was much less important than the New Law Jesus declared to be… Jesus, as you know Osama, is the New Torah, the perfect and decisive Torah that is condensed in one word: Love… so, Osama, Christ is not saying that one should be killed when disobeying his parents: everything that apparently contradicts this central reality, testified by the Cross, has to be reinterpreted at the light of Love. And Jesus did not asked the Pharisees with whom he was debating to be killed even when he accused them not to respect there parents in order to have personal benefits… and you know that because you, furtively, amputated the following verse that I’ll post here: «But you say, "If anyone says to his father or mother: Anything I might have used to help you is dedicated to God”»… These same Pharisees were very worried about a break in an oral tradition but, nonetheless, were not worried in not respecting the Torah who says to respect ones’ parents (Deuteronomy 5:6)… But even then he didn’t ask them to be killed… So, as a matter of fact, Jesus is breaking a law (Leviticus 20:9)… he’s surpassing it because the perfect law of Love makes all the other precepts only applicable when not in contrast with it… so, Osama, once again: your claims are preposterous… and your biblical ignorance is almost as big as Muhammad’s… and its at this light one should read your words that you «have thoroughly demonstrated Jesus said to follow the law»… this is the climax of self-ignorance… simply preposterous

But lets continue… it’s great to denounce someone inability of showing he understands something… and in the process elucidate everyone about the truth… thanks for this opportunity Osama… even your ignorance is a great help to the King of God… you quoted Matthew 5:17-18: «Do not imagine that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete them; in truth I tell you, till heaven and earth disappear, not one dot, not one little stroke, is to disappear from the Law until all its purpose is achieved»… Let’s Jesus himself answer you… he knew very ignorant people would use this verses to try the prove the contrary he said… So, in his own words: «I haven’t come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete them»… He does not say he has nullified the law neither that he has left the Law equal… he says that, even when he didn’t abolished it, he has completed it… the ancient Law, even in Jesus’ word, were not perfect: it had to be made concluded by Himself, the Law by antonomasia… «you have read (in the Law), I (as the New Law who perfects the previous one) say…», so, when he says that «not one dot, not one little stroke, is to disappear from the Law until all its purpose is achieved», he is saying that the ancient Law only should be the applied by those who doesn’t accept the New One… to them the ancient Law is still applied… but to those who realize the meaning of Jesus’ life and deeds the ancient Law only has value «until all its purpose is achieved», that is, until Jesus revealed Himself, in the Cross, as the New Law of the New Covenant… So Osama… your quote of Galatians 3:13 turns against you: «Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree”»… The fact that Jesus was resurrected after his dead is the proof he was not a cursed one, someone abandoned by God… He was the Law in it’s perfect expression… So: Jesus passed to the consequences of the non acceptance of the fact He was the New and perfect Law and accepted he was cursed to us… he was not cursed in himself, but, as Paul clearly says, to us: he carried all our sins in his humanity so he could, when resurrected, forgive them all… included your’s Osama… may the Love of the Truth, that is Jesus, shine in your sweet heart… you’re a loving human being… only your words are preposterous

But lets continue… Where in the world Isaiah 52:13 says, as you claim, that Christ will be saved from crucifixion? Here’s the text: «Look, my servant will prosper, will grow great, will rise to great heights»? All this happened to Christ but only because he experienced the dead in the Cross and the resurrection from the dead… The text that follows Isaiah %2:13, and that you, once again, omits shows just that: «Forcibly, after sentence, he was taken. Which of his contemporaries was concerned at his having been cut off from the land of the living, at his having been struck dead for his people's rebellion? He was given a grave with the wicked, and his tomb is with the rich, although he had done no violence, had spoken no deceit (…). Hence I shall give him a portion with the many, and he will share the booty with the mighty, for having exposed himself to death and for being counted as one of the rebellious, whereas he was bearing the sin of many and interceding for the rebellious»… All your claims are like a shoot in your head… preposterous… God saved Jesus from the dead and, as the perfect just, he freed him from all the evils, being the greatest one the dead… once again… It’s the text you presented (Psalm 34:19-20) which turns against you! And once again you amputated the text from the following verse: «Yahweh takes care of all their bones, not one of them will be broken», as John (John 19:36) clearly states… And, by the way, Osama, Psalm 91:11-12 was turned down by Jesus in respect to his dead because he then could not show, in the Cross, that God was Love to all men… and that even when he could ask the help promised by these text: «Jesus then said, 'Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, who would promptly send more than twelve legions of angels to my defence?» (Matthew 26:52-53)… poor Osama… all your words turn against you… preposterous

So Osama… in conclusion… all your words in this thread are rubbishutter and complete rubbish… preposterous… but even then I’ll pray for your in order you can see the only true Light: Jesus… Osama: I love you, even when you're so clearly against God...

p.s.: Osama... please... leave the debates to those who understand what they're talking about... eat some soap, grow up and, then, show yourself to the world...

Nakdimon said...

Moi wrote: "Where in the world Isaiah 52:13 says, as you claim, that Christ will be saved from crucifixion?"

Wait a minute, I haven't noticed this utter foolishness. You don't mean to say that he uses this verse to proove that Yeshua wasn't crucified, did he?

How does the Hebrew phrase "hinneh, yaskil avdee, yaruwm wenissah, wegavah me'od" (הִנֵּה יַשְׂכִּיל, עַבְדִּי; יָרוּם וְנִשָּׂא וְגָבַהּ, מְאֹד)mean that he would be saved from death?

Osama, you are officially the worst apologist for Islam ever! I have abhorred Nadir Ahmed as the undisputed Islamic failure, but you have as of now surpassed him!

As for your assertions that this is about saving someone from death, read the following:

Isaiah 52:14 According as many were appalled at you--so marred was his visage unlike that of a man, and his form unlike that of the sons of men--

Here the servant would be exalted ONLY AFTER he would be marred beyond recognision, as is evident by the following verses

Isaiah 53:5 But HE WAS WOUNDED because of our transgressions, HE WAS CRUSHED because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and WITH HIS WOUNDS we were healed.

Isaiah 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away, and with his generation who did reason? for he was CUT OFF OUT OF THE LAND OF THE LIVING, for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due.

Isaiah 53:9 And they made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich HIS DEATHS; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to crush him by disease; to see if his soul would offer itself AS A GUILT OFFERING, that he might see seed, prolong his days, and that the purpose of the LORD might prosper by his hand:

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion among the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty; because he bared his soul UNTO DEATH, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he BORE THE SIN OF MANY, and MADE INTERCESSION for the transgressors.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You have shown yourself to be unfit for discussing the profane matters, let alone the sacred ones.

Nakdimon

Osama Abdallah said...

Moi

Obviously, you haven't read everything I've written.

Psalm 91:12 and the many other verses I provided at: www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah_53.htm all claim that CHRIST WON'T GET CRUCIFIED.


I'll get to your other points later one, insha'Allah.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

David Wood said...

Psalm 91:12--"they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone."

Yes, this is clearly a denial of Jesus' crucifixion 1000 years later. It's much clearer than all the passages which declare, quite clearly, that Jesus was in fact crucified.

Osama certainly isn't being extraordinarily biased in his interpretation here.

Osama Abdallah said...

Dear Mr. David Wood,

Thank you for being fair and just. You are a good Christian, the type that is Praised in the Holy Quran:

[005:082] Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

Indeed, I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY ARROGANCE in you David, nor any bad manners.

May Allah Almighty Bless you. Ameen.

By the way, I have just posted on my site an announcement of our debate on 6/22/2009 in Dearborn MI. I certainly will be priveleged and delighted to meet you again, in person.

Have a good night,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

From www.answering-christianity.com/whatsnew.htm:

02/23/2009- On Monday, June 22, 2009, I will be privileged and delighted to debate Mr. David Wood in Dearborn MI on the topic of "Does the Quran contain Scientific Miracles in It?", insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing). More details will be posted in the future, insha'Allah.

Stephanie said...

Osama Abdallah,

Forgive me for intruding, but it seems that in all your arguments, you're putting down Jesus Christ. From what I have learned about Islam (and I am no scholar, but a curious [college] student), many Muslims revere Jesus Christ as a prophet of Allah. One of my professors (a truly amazing, well-versed scholar and apologist--if I mentioned the name, a lot of people may recognize it), who was a Muslim specifically of the Sunni sect that converted to Christianity, provided an extensive study outline of the intricacies of Islam. The Islam culture highly respects Jesus Christ; but never admits to His deity. In fact, most (if not all) Muslims believe that before Jesus was crucified, Allah took Him to heaven and replaced him with someone else--possibly Judas, scholars believe.

In addition to that, one passage I am familiar with in the Quran, Surah 10:94, states the importance of studying the "opposing" texts -- "If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt."

"The Book from before thee" refers directly to the Talmud and New Testament (biblical) texts. Now, if the Christian Bible is supposed to, in fact, prove that the Quran contains the truth, why are there supposedly all these "contradictions" and whatnot? Perhaps that isn't the best argument, since I'm sure you would argue that the Christians and Jews perverted the truth and that not all of the Bible is true--but it's something to think about.

And if you are called to study the Bible--I suggest first studying the original Greek. You will get the most accurate translations that way. The passages you've been quoting seem to be KJV (or some variation), and because of this the meanings may get lost in translation. In the original Hebrew (Old Testament) and Greek (New Testament), you can see where specific doctrinal beliefs are adapted (the names of God, the concept of the Trinity, a literal three day creation, etc).

But it's just a suggestion. I haven't had the opportunity to perform an extensive study on the Bible in its original language, but I do know a lot of bits and pieces.

Taylor said...

Dear Osama, I apologize but I was unable to detect in your response any interaction with the points I made. Will you kindly respond to the scriptures and reasoning which were offered and made?

Fernando said...

Usama saide: «Thank you for being fair and just» just aftter Doctor Wood said: «Psalm 91:12--"they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone." Yes, this is clearly a denial of Jesus' crucifixion 1000 years later. It's much clearer than all the passages which declare, quite clearly, that Jesus was in fact crucified. Osama certainly isn't being extraordinarily biased in his interpretation here.»...

Does not Usama see the irony? Does not hee understand anything? Another reason to the implement of our chain of prayers for his recovery!!!

Usama... We all be praying for you!!! Ameen!!!

El-Cid said...

Osama said: "1- I fully agree with you that the Jewish Law is not possible to follow perfectly. It was put by GOD Almighty because He, the Almighty, Knew how evil and treacherous the Jews are. As you probably know, they're even behind 9/11."

HAHAHA!!! Wow. You just made my day Osama. I needed a good laugh. You Muslims with your conspiracy theories and Jew-bashing. Absurd.

How does this guy get ANYONE to debate him?

MP said...

"Le Circle du Soleil" is looking for a new clown... Osama: do you need a job? I bet you would do an amayzing job... you could even do the a new Houdini kind of trick: the brain explosion inside a box... oops... for that you needed to have a brain big enough... and that is what, reading your posts, really doubt...

«Hey -- said Osama -- you havent read everything I said... please go to my web site...»... what a pastishe!!!

It's like someone who's speaking to another person and, after all of his statements were refuted, says: «hey... you haven't heard all the words I pronounced in my life, so you can't say my arguments were bogus...»... Osama: you're so naïf...

Fernando: you may trust in my prayers in your chain of prayers to Osama recovery...

Nakdimon said...

El Cid: “How does this guy get ANYONE to debate him?”

Yeah I was just wondering the same thing. David, call the debate off, man. It is an enormous waste of time.

I mean, this guy is so oblivious. Muslims fly planes into buildings and the Jews are to blame.


Come on…

Osama Abdallah said...

Guys,

Why do you continue to turn this into personal attacks? David saw my point and was honest enough to speak up. I respect him for that, and I respected him also long before that.


So it is not just this post of his that somehow made me turn 180 degrees. No, I didn't turn 180 degrees. I just complimented the man for his honesty. That's all. It's this too strange for you?

As to Muslims fly airplanes into buildings, yeah, keep living your naive and foolish life. The Jews are having a ball using you as a shoe. But, the good news is that Americans are waking up! We've seen this in the recent presidential elections, and in the latest poll that said MORE THAN 40% OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT 9/11 IS A LIE.

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

Let me say these brief points about 9/11 in hopes that it will shed some Truth and light upon you:

1- There was no hijack by any passenger! That is why no box cutter or knife was detected by any metal detector by the airport security.

2- The airplanes were remote controlled. This technology existed even in the 70s. So it is quite mature and sophisticated by now.

3- Building 7 STINKS FOR WORSE THAN A ROTTEN SKUNK! The way it came down makes me strongly believe that it was the place where the two planes were remote controlled.

4- The pentagon was not hit by any civilian jet. Heck, my butt would've made a bigger hole than this if I were thrown into the building!

5- The Pensylvania field had no airplane in it. That's because the airplane was blown into a 100000000000 pieces in the sky.

9/11/2001 LWAS DOCTORED!

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

Furthermore,

The cameras showed explosions (dynamite explosions) occuring at the lower levels of the twin towers as they were falling!

The twin towers, like TOWER 7, came down by controlled demolition!

9/11 was meant to be the Jews Pearl Harbor against the Muslims. It is slowly but surely getting exposed, AND NO ONE SLAUGHTERS THE JEW BETTER THAN THE CHRISTIAN. USA is going to be their future holocaust, insha'Allah (may Allah Almighty Will it). Ameen. You'll see.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

And no one gives it to the Christian in the rear end better than the Jews!

YOU GUYS WERE MADE FOR EACH OTHERS!

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

Adolf Hitler Prophecied in the Holy Quran:

Well not directly, but Allah Almighty Promised the Jews that everytime they do mischief on earth, AS THIS IS THEIR NATURE, He will send them people who will "DISFIGURE THEIR FACES".

Everytime they run around causing trouble in the world, they'll end up in a holocaust! The Noble Verses are located at:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/hitler_in_islam.htm

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Osama Abdallah said...

LONG LIVE ISLAM!!!

Fernando said...

Usama... I'm getting woried with you...

I begging to wonder if our chain of prayers well be do any goode to you...

But then... perhaps one should pray even moore...

I know the onlie and true God, the Trinity, is listenning to our souls and will feel sorrow for you... He'll work in an amayzing in your heart... I allreadie see some evidences...

Usama... I guarantee too you all our prayers... Ameen!!!

Osama Abdallah said...

My dear Fernando,

Trinity is a fraud and doctored like 9/11/2001. We already discussed that. You can't even prove that CHRIST GOT CURCIFIED either!

Have a blessed day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Royal Son said...

Osmama, with all due respect, we have loads of evidence. In fact the consensus of scholarship is that the crucifixion of Jesus Christ is one of the best attested facts of history.

All you have on your side is surah 4:157-158. ONE VERSE. In fact, if that verse did not exist in the Qur'an, you would actually appeal to the same evidence that we do when responding to others who do not believe He was crucified.

Let us read the verses:

And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain. (157)

But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. (158)

This is talking about claims made by the Jews. I say that it was in fact the Romans who crucified Jesus, considering that crucifixion was a Roman method of execution.

Please refute this interpretation. And by the way, it is the Muslim side that is full of conjecture. That's why they can't decide if Jesus was on the cross but passed out, or if He was substituted with someone else.

Osama Abdallah said...

Dear Royal Son,

We have established that the Crucifixion is refuted using even the Bible itself. There are ample verses in the Bible that say that CHRIST WILL BE SAVED FROM THE CRUCIFIXION: www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah_53.htm

As to Islam, there is nothing vague about the crucifixion lie. The Holy Quran is quite clear that CHRIST, peace be upon him, was never even PUT ON THE CROSS. Allah Almighty Said and affirmed that they: (1)Have not crucified him; (2)Nor have they killed him.

As to the Romans and not the Jews who crucifed Jesus, the Holy Quran was talking about the Jews and their SCHEME to crucify Christ, and not the literal soldiers who executed it.

As to the Holy Quran being filled with conjecture, not at all, especially when we use the Hadiths to explain It. In the case of the crucifixion, even your sources speak about ANOTHER JESUS BING CRUCIFIED INSTEAD OF CHRIST. I have covered this in great details at: www.answering-christianity.com/ac24.htm#links

Have a good day Sir.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Fernando said...

Usama saide (takke notice: 3 lies/errors in one sentence): «Trinity is a fraud and doctored like 9/11/2001. We already discussed that. You can't even prove that CHRIST GOT CURCIFIED either!»...

1) Trinity is not a fraude... its the moste perfect expression of what, and whome, God is as many have demonstrated in history... EBEN THE qUR'AN ADMITS IT... and you know it: it only denies thate the Trinity should not be Gog, Isa and Miriam.... but IT DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE TRUE TRINITY: the Father, the Son and the Holy Gost... eben the qur'an calls Isa the Word of God... ;

2) Where habe WE discussed the Trinity? Can you redirect all of us to that thread?... If you can I'll stop denouncing your absurdityes in public... eben when I'm reallizing that you can't be as fool as you whate us to believe... I'm guessing you're giving your futtur oponentes a false sensation of security... no one can have sush clumsy ideas... oh.. I see.. your "WE" must be the plural of idioticy...;

3) Who can't prove that Jesus died in the Cross? Even Shabir Ally admittes it... all the historical evidences, from within and from without the NT shows that... it was Uthman that, falsifying the true qur'an, invented that Jesus did not died in the cross... It's you Usama that habe the onus of the counter-evidence: only your false qur'an denies that Jesus died in the cross... and do you call it true?

Usama: where habe a christian source said another Christ was crucified insted of Jesus? If you can provide onlie onne publically here I'll stop showwing to everyone haw vacuus is your thought... almost like Ibn's... but eben him is a gretter debater...

Usama: as I said before: I'll be praying for your recovery... I'll even put a candle in the window for your eternal soul... Ameen!!!

Royal Son said...

Osama, thank you for your response. Again, please do not link to your site as I and other visitors here have detected viruses from it.

Let me approach each of your points one by one:
"We have established that the Crucifixion is refuted using even the Bible itself. There are ample verses in the Bible that say that CHRIST WILL BE SAVED FROM THE CRUCIFIXION"

You want to try to use the bible to prove that Jesus died, but when the same bible says that He did die, you want to ignore it, why is that?

"As to Islam, there is nothing vague about the crucifixion lie. The Holy Quran is quite clear that CHRIST, peace be upon him, was never even PUT ON THE CROSS. Allah Almighty Said and affirmed that they: (1)Have not crucified him; (2)Nor have they killed him."

Why is it that people such as Ahmed Deedat, Zakir Naik, and Shabir Ally disagree with your position and state that Jesus was put on the cross, and yet never died there?

Again, the verse was responding to the claim of the JEWS. Thus, I still stand by my original interpretation and you have yet to refute it, i.e. that While 4:157 may be correct in that it was not the Jews who crucified Jesus, it was the ROMANS instead. Thus Jesus still ends up crucified.

"As to the Romans and not the Jews who crucifed Jesus, the Holy Quran was talking about the Jews and their SCHEME to crucify Christ, and not the literal soldiers who executed it."

It is not talking about a SCHEME, it is talking about their BOAST of something that has already taken place.

read:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";― but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.―

It is clear that this is not talking about the Jews plotting a scheme. Rather, it is talking about the Jews boasting in having killed Jesus.

All that the Quran says is that they (the Jews) didn't crucify or kill Him.

Thus the possibility still stands, that the ROMANS killed Him and not the Jews.

"As to the Holy Quran being filled with conjecture, not at all, especially when we use the Hadiths to explain It. In the case of the crucifixion, even your sources speak about ANOTHER JESUS BING CRUCIFIED INSTEAD OF CHRIST."

Please read my statements again Osama, I never ever claimed that the Quran was filled with conjecture, although I could build a case for such a claim if I wanted to. Rather I said that it was the Muslim side, i.e. the muslim apologists, who are full of conjecture, coming up with different theories as to what happened.

Now you tell me that your theory is correct because you have Hadiths which back your story up. Am I as a Christian supposed to be impressed by your Hadiths? ABSOLUTELY NONE of the Hadiths bear eye-witness accounts, they all come centuries and centuries after the events. What's more, not a single Hadith is inspired of God.

You claim that MY SOURCES say that another Jesus was crucified instead of my Jesus. Whoa, back up for a second Osama. Tell me which of the 66 books of the bible say this. If it is not in there, don't call it my source.

So basically, now you want to appeal to some sort of extra-biblical sources which suggest that ANOTHER JESUS was crucified.

In short, if there was a debate on "Was Jesus crucified?" You would have to answer yes. It's just that you don't believe it was the same one that we believe in. Now there's two Jesus's running around, and they both look identical. Allah rescues Isa, because it would be unjust for Allah to allow Him to be brutally punished, and in His place, put some other random guy named Jesus, and let him bear the brutal torture for absolutely NO PURPOSE except to deceive the true Jesus' followers into believing a lie because Allah is the greatest of deceivers and Allah knows best.

Wow.

What can I say?

By the way, why is it that Muslims have a problem with the concept that Jesus Christ could bear the sins of the world as the perfect sacrifice, and yet have no problem with Sahih Muslim which says:

"Abu Burda reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with AS HEAVY SINS AS A MOUNTAIN, and Allah would FORGIVE THEM and He would PLACE IN THEIR STEAD the Jews and the Christians. (As far as I think), Abu Raub said: I do not know as to who is in doubt. Abu Burda said: I narrated it to 'Umar b. 'Abd al-'Aziz, whereupon he said: Was it your father who narrated it to you from Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him)? I said: Yes. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6668)"

So it's not okay for God to have His Son bear the sins of the world for the purpose of redemption, regeneration and full reconciliation, but it is perfectly normal and acceptable for Allah to place the HEAVY MOUNTAIN-LIKE sins of Muslims upon Jews and Christians.

Wow again. You have a lot of explaining to do sir.

Osama Abdallah said...

Dear Royal Son,

Again, MCAFEE tested my site and declared that it is safe and clean:

http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/answering-christianity.com?version=2&core_ver=1.0&pip=true&premium=false&client_ver=2.9.242&client_type=IEPlugin&suite=true&aff_id=105&locale=en-us&os_ver=5.1.3.0

As to your other points, they had been addressed above.

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Royal Son said...

Osama, simply by pointing me back to your previous post is not a response to mine which addressed the faulty logic of it.

Since you believe in the substituion theory, please respond to the following questions.

1. Who went before Pilate on trial, the real Jesus or the false one?

2. Who said on the cross "Eloi Eloi lama Sabachtani", the real Jesus or the false one?

3. Who was buried in the tomb? The real Jesus or the false one?

4. Who appeared to the disciples 3 days later, the real Jesus or the false one?

5. Why was the tomb empty?

6. Who prophesied that He would be crucified and raise from the dead 3 days later, the real Jesus or the false one?

7. Who was Isaiah prophesying would be wounded for our transgressions and pierced by His own people, the real Jesus or the false one?

8. Who filled the nets with 153 fish in John 21:11, the real Jesus or the false one?

9. Who breathed into His disciples on the day of Pentecost, the real Jesus or the false one?

10. Who asked Thomas to touch his wounds, the real Jesus or the false one?

I look forward to your response to this question, and also a proper response to my previous post.

Thank you.

El-Cid said...

Does anyone else notice how far off-topic Osama has moved the thread??

David: "A Muslim cleric is issuing ruling on a prominent website that allowing wife beating. Sadly, the Quran supports this ruling."

Osama: "That's not what 4:34 means....oh and by the way....your Bible says to rape and maim women, what a terrible book you follow....and the Jews did 9/11!!"

Rest of the blog: "Osama, you are misrepresenting the text. Your statements make you look very foolish."

Osama: "Jesus tells you to uphold the law" "Paul is a false prophet" "Christianity is false"

David, Taylor, Nakdimon, Moi and others: "Here are the verses and the context Osama. Your claims are incorrect".

Osama: "Trinity is a fraud and doctored like 9/11/2001"

"9/11 is a Jewish conspiracy"

"40% of Americans believe 9/11 is a lie"

"Everytime they [the Jews] run around causing trouble in the world, they'll end up in a holocaust!"

"Why do you continue to turn this into personal attacks?"

"The Jews are having a ball using you as a shoe."

"And no one gives it to the Christian in the rear end better than the Jews! YOU GUYS WERE MADE FOR EACH OTHERS!"

"Building Seven!" "Lies!"

El-Cid wonders:

What was the topic again everyone? I could have sworn the post this thread is about had something to do with Islamic clerics giving men permission to intimidate their wives with physical violence, and the Islamic materials those clerics use to justify their rulings.

I guess Osama is not interested in proving these Islamic scholars wrong (or maybe he is unable). The best he could do is, tell us we don't understand what Surah 4:34 means and then launch into a tirade of tu quoque and non sequitors.

I will give this guy one thing....he sure knows how to sidetrack a discussion off-topic!

Royal Son said...

Sorry guys, I'll leave my points for another post which is more relevant. :)

Stephanie said...

Osama,

I ask again: Have you studied the Bible in its original language and in the correct context? It's easy to sit there and make accusations without any substance. Unless you are a Bible scholar and have studied those texts from an unbiased perspective, nothing you say is going to be revered as truthful.

And I don't exactly see the relevance of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, nor do I see how it was a "conspiracy." 40% of Americans believing it was a conspiracy means absolutely nothing: the same 40% may also be prone to believe that they were abducted and probed by aliens. Correlation does not prove causation; fact overrides opinion.

Fernando said...

Yes... El-Cid... you're right... Usama has diverted our attentions from the originall theme...

we'll have, God willing, all the timme in the world to debate him inn his points...

but sometimes he's justt so annoyingue...

lets keep, nontheless, our chain off prayers for him... If in 2 weeks he has been tottaly refuted in all the points he presented publically here he'll get even less economic support to his sitee...

MP said...

The reverse off Osama:

You all know that the bombardement off Gaza was made by muslims disguised in Jews... HOW DO YOU DARE TO SAY THEY WERE MADE BY THE ISRAELI ARMY? The evidence is all around you... We have proved it several times in our site... HOW DO YOU DARE TO SAY THEY WERE MADE BY THE ISRAELI ARMY?... The phosphoros bombs were bottles filled with shreds of paper ripped from ancient muslim manuscripts prior to Uthmans curruption... HOW DO YOU DARE TO SAY THEY WERE MADE BY THE ISRAELI ARMY?...

Osama Abdallah said...

My dear Fernando,

"he'll get even less economic support to his sitee..."


MY ANSWER:

I got news for you: I not only do not collect money from anyone on my site, but I have refused to collect them! I made this very clear at:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/help_site_ranking.htm

That is why I don't care about whom I offend on my site. And no I do not thrive on acting rude or say foul things. I am just not subjected to any politics or side. My work is solely for the Sake of Allah Almighty Alone, ALL PRAISE AND GLORY ARE DUE TO HIM. AMEEN.

Have a good day,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Fernando said...

Usama said: «That is why I don't care about whom I offend on my site»...

the problem is not whome you offende (for that there's what we call lawsuits...), is the what you offend: truth, honestie, scholar inestigations...

but then I really thought thate the onlie way to keep a site like yours (I remembber going there, previously to this attempt of yours to sent trojans to everyones computers, when I was in need of a goog laugh...) full of errors when, by the other side, you trie to pass the idea of being goode muslim apologist, was by recienving big amouts of money from all those Christians in the muslims countries who pay jizzia note to be killed...

even though, our prayers are really promised, and we Christians, are truthloving persons...

May the only and true God, the Trinity, help you, and your site because in doing so it is helping the cause of Christ because no one can believe thate someone who publishes whate you write, here (by the way... you, by your silence, have accepted what the title of this thread shows...) or in your site, can be an exemple of someone living in the a true religion...