Friday, October 10, 2008

Muhammad Look-a-Like Contest

I wonder how many Christians are going to be randomly killed in retalliation for this contest that has nothing to do with Christians:

Muhammad Look-a-Like Contest


Yahya Hayder Seymour said...

Probably the same amount killed for the Swedish newspaper cartoon depictions.... i.e None!

Sami Zaatari said...

hopefully none,

David Wood said...

Before I address your comment, did you mean Danish? Or was there some other cartoon killing spree I wasn't aware of?

David Wood said...

Wait a minute. Did a Christian, a Sunni, and a Shia just agree that no Christians should be killed over this look-a-like contest?

Yahya Hayder Seymour said...

Nope, I meant Swedish: No violence hence no media coverage.

Sami Zaatari said...

yes David, no one should be killed, beaten or whatever, just a debate with the people who made the contest and with the people who support such mocking acts as i think we all agree that this doesnt bring any fruit at all.

the best way to see the truth and understand is through debates/dialogs like the ones we have, i believe you agree there.

Sami Zaatari said...

number 2 these guys are atheist seculars i believe, what good would it be to target Christians, these seculars dont like you guys anymore than they do us! it just strengthens them.

David Wood said...

Things will depend on whether Muslim leaders stir up trouble across the Muslim world. If they do, Christians will be killed, because many Muslims think that everyone in the West is Christian, and, therefore, that the contest is a Crusade against Islam.

El-Cid said...


"...just a debate with the people who made the contest and with the people who support such mocking acts as i think we all agree that this doesnt bring any fruit at all."

I certainly don't speak for David (or even know him), but I couldn't disagree with you MORE.

Islam needs to be insulted repeatedly until Muslims get used to it, and stop burning down embassies, rioting over teddy-bears, and generally acting like anti-social clowns.

It seems pretty much everything insults Muslims anyway. The only way I can see to solve it, is to insult Islam and keep insulting it until Muslims build up a reasonable "callous" or tollerance that will allow them to act like adults not children.

The way I see it:

Muslims are people who are worthy of respect for their innate value as a human being.

Islam is an ideology that has no innate value, and must EARN respect.

Of course, what I am NOT advocating is shouting insults or obscenities at Muslims. What I AM in favor of, is targetted public statements like the Danish cartoons, this "Muhammad Look-a-Like Contest", and any other form of satire, criticism, or spectacle that can deliver the message.

There is no reason to treat Muslims like little children by assuming they cannot control their emotions when someone disagrees with them, insults their beliefs, or transgresses their cultural expectations. Everyone else on earth deals it with. Muslims are capable of dealing with it too (as some already do).

Sami Zaatari said...

Muslim Children Gassed at Dayton Mosque after "Obsession" DVD Hits Ohio

by Chris Rodda
Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 08:50:29 PM PDT
(From the diaries -- kos)

On Friday, September 26, the end of a week in which thousands of copies of Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West -- the fear-mongering, anti-Muslim documentary being distributed by the millions in swing states via DVDs inserted in major newspapers and through the U.S. mail -- were distributed by mail in Ohio, a "chemical irritant" was sprayed through a window of the Islamic Society of Greater Dayton, where 300 people were gathered for a Ramadan prayer service. The room that the chemical was sprayed into was the room where babies and children were being kept while their mothers were engaged in prayers. This, apparently, is what the scare tactic political campaigning of John McCain's supporters has led to -- Americans perpetrating a terrorist attack against innocent children on American soil.

* Chris Rodda's diary ::

I read the story as reported by the Dayton Daily News, but this was after I had received an email written by a friend of some of the victims of these American terrorists. The matter of fact news report in the Dayton paper didn't come close to conveying the horrific impact of this unthinkable act like the email I had just read, so I asked the email's author for permission to share what they had written. The author was with one of the families from the mosque -- a mother and two of the small children who were in the room that was gassed -- the day after the attack occurred.

"She told me that the gas was sprayed into the room where the babies and children were being kept while their mothers prayed together their Ramadan prayers. Panicked mothers ran for their babies, crying for their children so they could flee from the gas that was burning their eyes and throats and lungs. She grabbed her youngest in her arms and grabbed the hand of her other daughter, moving with the others to exit the building and the irritating substance there.

"The paramedic said the young one was in shock, and gave her oxygen to help her breathe. The child couldn't stop sobbing.

"This didn't happen in some far away place -- but right here in Dayton, and to my friends. Many of the Iraqi refugees were praying together at the Mosque Friday evening. People that I know and love.

"I am hurt and angry. I tell her this is NOT America. She tells me this is not Heaven or Hell -- there are good and bad people everywhere.

"She tells me that her daughters slept with her last night, the little one in her arms and sobbing throughout the night.

She tells me she is afraid, and will never return to the mosque, and I wonder what kind of country is this where people have to fear attending their place of worship?

The children come into the room, and tell me they want to leave America and return to Syria, where they had fled to from Iraq. They say they like me ..., and other American friends -- but they are too afraid and want to leave.

Should a 6 and 7 year old even have to contemplate the safety of their living situation?

Did the anti-Muslim video circulating in the area have something to do with this incident, or is that just a bizarre coincidence? Who attacks women and children?

What am I supposed to say to them? My words can't keep them safe from what is nothing less than terrorism, American style.

Isn't losing loved ones, their homes, jobs, possessions and homeland enough? Is there no place where they can be safe?

"She didn't want me to leave her tonight, but it was after midnight, and I needed to get home and write this to my friends.

Tell me -- tell me -- what am I supposed to say to them?"

When acting as a representative of Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), the 501(c)3 non-profit organization that I work for, I cannot engage in political activities. The distribution of Obsession,however, although a political campaign scheme, clearly crosses over into the mission of MRFF. So, I'm going to make two statements here -- one in my capacity as MRFF's Research Director, and another as an individual whose disgust at the vile campaign tactics of John McCain's supporters completely boiled over when I opened up the email about children being gassed.

My statement as MRFF's Research Director:

The presidential campaign edition of the Obsession DVD, currently being distributed by the Clarion Fund, carries the endorsement of the chair of the counter-terrorism department of the U.S. Naval War College, using the name and authority of an official U.S. military institution not only to validate an attack the religion of Islam, but to influence a political campaign. For these reasons, this endorsement has been included in MRFF's second lawsuit against the Department of Defense, which was filed on September 25 in the Federal District Court in Kansas.

David how many Muslims have to suffer and get abused because of right wing bigoted material (which you post) against Islam?

offcourse you dont care about this, or future incidents, you just talk out for Christians, or what will happen to Christians, but what about the Muslims?

El-Cid said...

Suddenly some cartoons, a teddy-bear named Muhammad (which spawned violent riots), and a look-alike contest are equated with some sort of physical attack on Muslim PEOPLE (when it was the Muslims who were attacking things). The Islamic lense of viewing reality seems to create a Loony Tunes picture of the world.

Haven't heard Sami on his soapbox deriding his fellow Muslims for persecuting Christians.

The reprehensible attack on that Mosque is not related to a look-a-like contest (unless the organizers of the contest are somehow behind the gassing, or have made a statement in support of it?)

Now, there are several distinctions we can see in the above events. The issue in Ohio offers the victims the full protection of the law in which all resources will be brought to capture the perpetrators. Why is it, countries with a Muslim majority can't seems to bring the resources of the their governments to protect religious minorities?

Now the primary question for me really is, what on earth does the event in Ohio have to do with a Muhammad Look-a-like contest? Answer: Absolutely nothing. There is no analogue between the two, and NO reason to believe that a satirical event at a convention will somehow lead to violence against Muslims. In fact, recent events suggest it more likely that satirical commentary will lead to violence FROM Muslims. Is a "Jesus look-a-like Contest" going to inspire violence against Christians?

Ideological satire is a part of the human condition. Suppressing it requires violence because it is a natural expression of humanity.

Apparently, now Sami is holding David responsible for violence against Muslim because of the content of his blog?? It's hard not to laugh at that. Granted, I have not read every post here, but thus far I have not come across any "hate" directed at Muslims or any admonishment to violence against them.

All I see is the simple, rational, reasonable, and peaceful underlying statement of "We disagree with Islam, and here is why...".

According to Sami, Christians love Satan.
According to Sami, Answering Muslims is contributing to violence.
According to Sami, Christians don't care when Muslims are hurt.
According to Sami; the far-left liberalism of the Daily Kos, the McCain campaign, and a DVD on radical Islam is all OBVIOUSLY rolled into the explanation for a criminal act at a mosque.
According to Sami, the event somehow ties in with a Muhammad Look-a-like Contest and allows him to draw the conclusion that criticism of Islam leads to violence against Muslims.

The world according to Sami is a strange, strange place.

That is the essential claim he trying to point to:
> Criticism of Islam leads to violence against Muslims.

And of course, he seems to point to the conclusion that criticism of Islam MUST be stopped in order to protect Muslims.

Laughable. Neurotic. Illogical. Paranoid. Asinine. Fallacious. A long chain of words comes to mind.

sup said...

@ momo

I think Sami's point is that David shouldn't complain about potential violence against Christians, because material on his sight is causing violence against Muslims.

El-Cid said...


Yes, that is part of what I gathered as well, and I even commented on it.

The fact that he tries to draw a connection between the material on this blog and "violence against Muslims" is patently ridiculous.

The idea that criticism of the ideology of Islam, leads to violence against Muslims is completely unfounded and illogical. In truth, the claim is little more than a smoke-screen to attempt to stifle open dialogue and silence criticism.

sup said...

@ momo

I have no problem with dialogue ( Sami doesn't either since he has participated in debates) ,but Obsession is clearly designed to cause paranoia. People who are paranoid become insecure,as a result of the paranoia they react violently. Since David is posting this film he is indirectly contributing violence against Muslims.

El-Cid said...


You make several presuppositions presented as fact, when they clearly are not such:

1) Obsession is clearly designed to cause paranoia

Based on what do you determine it is "clearly" designed to cause "paranoia"?

The film presents the FACT that there are Muslims who, by their own words, are engaged in an overtly violent struggle to attack the West, and kill. Further, the filmakers clearly draw distinction between "peaceful Muslims" and "radical(violent) Muslims". Even if you disagree with my analysis above, you must still prove the intent of the film is to cause paranoia.

2) People who are paranoid become insecure,as a result of the paranoia they react violently.

This is little more than Begging The Question you are engaging in. You assume your conclusion to be true while stating your argument. Further, it is not a known result that 'paranoia' leads to violent behavior. A case can be made that it may be one outcome, but you must FIRST demonstrate the original stimulus (the film) leads to 'paranoia', THEN you must demonstrate the stimulus response (paranoia) manifests in violence.

3) Since David is posting this film he is indirectly contributing violence against Muslims.

This third argument can be discarded off-hand as you have not demonstrated in ANY way the previous two assertions should be held as true. Even IF (big if) you demonstrated 1 & 2 are true, you must still demonstrate that your conclusion about David posting the film is true. A number of other outcomes are logical. One that comes directly to mind is, that in posting the film on his blog where viewers (including Muslims) can comment openly and dialogue, he is in fact DECREASING the things you claim in 1 & 2 thereby reducing the risk of violence. There is no reason to believe your assessment is more credible than mine on this point as you fail prove arguments 1 & 2.

So, we are left with my original argument that there is NO reason to believe that criticism of the ideology of Islam leads to violence against Muslims.

Does criticism of Capitalism lead to violence against Capitalists? Does criticism of Vegetarianism lead to violence against Vegetarians? Does criticism of Atheism lead to violence against Atheists? It's an absurd notion that it does, and absurd that it is even a contested issue. Islam is not a "sacred cow". It is in the marketplace of ideas, just like all other ideologies. Best for you to get used to it.

sup said...

@ momo

No criticism of capitalism does not lead to violence against capitalists, but if you are saying there is this underground society of capitalists that are trying to kill you. Most people would conclude your just trying to get people paranoid.

How is what obsession saying different from what my analogy is ?

El-Cid said...


The difference is the group(s) trying to kill people mentioned in movies like Obsession are FACTUAL, exist, and in their own words openly declare their violent intentions. These groups have names, charters, fundraising operations, etc.

(And ironincally I have seen Islamic thinkers [some of them Sheikhs] openly declaring their IS a conspiracy of Capitalists that want to kill Muslims)

sup said...

@ Momo

I'm not denying that these people exist, but get real the U.S has the most advanced military if these people were actually a threat they would turn all the Muslim countries upside down looking for them.