Monday, July 21, 2008

James White Comments on the Lewis-Qureshi Debate

In this video, James discusses Shadid Lewis's use of 1 Corinthians 8:6 in his debate with Nabeel Qureshi (click here to watch the debate). Shadid obviously wasn't prepared to defend his interpretation, and this would ordinarily be forgivable. Shadid is a new debater, so he's obviously not going to be prepared for everything. The problem is that Shadid offered so little evidence in this debate, we would expect him to at least be prepared on the few arguments he uses--especially when he's claiming that a verse justifies leaving Christianity.


Dk said...

Can anyone provide me with direct evidence for the claim that 1 cor 8:6 is the christian version of the shema? Is it the linguistics, is it a historical commentary? is there collective evidence?

I think this would go along way to prove that Jesus is not being potrayed as less than God.

However at face value Jesus is the "one Lord" and the Father is the "one God" if we then make the Father the "One Lord" and Jesus the "One God" then Pauls claim doesn't make sense. Obviously he is distinguishing the Father and Jesus but if both titles are applicable two both persons then the disinction is redundant, atleast adding the word "one" before the titles would be redundant.

ben malik said...


You can read the quotes from the NT scholars who provide the evidence for taking this as a christianized version of the shema here:

It is not redundant if we see that in Pauline usage God or theos functions almost as a proper name for the Father, which explains why he rarely uses it for the Son, whereas Lord or kyrios is used in a similar sense, namely as a proper name or part of a compound name for Jesus, which explains why the Apostle rarely uses it for the Father. And when we add to this the fact that Paul uses kyrios as a synonym for Yahweh we then can see how Paul is affirming the full and absolute Deity of both the Father and the Son.

Dk said...

Hi Ben, I will respond to the rest of your post tomorrow. But as for now:

"whereas Lord or kyrios is used in a similar sense, namely as a proper name or part of a compound name for Jesus...And when we add to this the fact that Paul uses kyrios as a synonym for Yahweh"

Assuming this is true then how can we find such statements like "the God and Father of our LORD (kurios) Jesus Christ".

Does that mean YHVH Jesus has a God? or does it mean Kurios is being used in a different sense with these passages?

Thanks for your response in advance, i'm off for today

ben malik said...

Note the wording again... God and Father of our Lord JESUS CHRIST, a reference to the Incarnate One who is both Divine and Human simultaneously. So yes, God is the Father of our Yahweh or Lord, and he is also his God by virtue of his Incarnate state which he will retain forever.

donna60 said...

I really like this Muslim. I feel like his "social" argument is compelling and cohesive. Really much more than the British fellow that debated Dr Qureshi.

However the only lesson I am learning is that any gospel sermon outside of "Thus Saith the Lord." and "gettin' that bible thumped" is dangerous, and leads to the way of death.

It hasn't convinced me that obeying the bible is going to send me to hell--only that disobeying the bible is going to be the path to distruction.

But I still like him better than Mr Williams in the UK, and I find his statistics very useful in their own way.

At least he makes some sense.

Taylor Bara said...

Here are my comments on how to write a decent bibliography!